IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

[The Gospel of Christ]

Paul doesnt define who the Israel of God is ...............you cited this verse [Gal 3:28 KJV] 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.........there is neither Jew or Gentile so why would he call Gentiles Israel?..........he doent say who the Israel of God is but it is clear what it is not..........its not us Gentile believers.........we are a new creature.........[Gal 6:15 KJV] 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

So let’s get this straight — you just said Paul doesn’t define who the Israel of God is, and then in the same breath you admitted he does say:

“As many as walk according to this rule… peace be on them, and upon the Israel of God.”
— Galatians 6:16

Let’s break that down for the misled and the Scofielded:

Who is Paul talking to?
Gentile believers in Galatia — people who are not ethnic Jews.

What “rule” is he referring to?
The very rule you just quoted:

“In Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.”
— Galatians 6:15

Translation:
The old identity markers — Jew or Gentile — no longer matter.
The only thing that matters now is being born again — made new in Christ.

And what does Paul call that group of “new creations” in the very next verse?

“The Israel of God.”

So yes — Paul does define who the Israel of God is.
It’s not based on ethnicity.
It’s not based on geography.
It’s not based on bloodline.
It’s based on being in Christ.

You say, “Why would Paul call Gentiles Israel?”
Because in Christ, we’re no longer Gentiles.
We’re the children of promise — the true heirs.

“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
— Galatians 3:29

Paul’s entire argument is that faith, not flesh, defines the covenant people of God.
And he ends his letter by blessing those walking in that truth — calling them the Israel of God.

That’s not vague.
That’s not unclear.
That’s gospel truth.
You just can’t see it — because Scofield told you not to.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

The reason I asked who taught you this is because I see this teaching alot and am inclined to think you have been taught this

This is what replacement theology says

"So yeah — the Body of Christ is Israel."
You said that’s what replacement theology teaches?

No.

That’s what the Gospel teaches.
And calling it replacement theology is nothing more than a slur —
a desperate smear to shut down the truth that’s been preached since the apostles walked the earth.

Let me tell you what replacement theology really is:
It’s a label made up by people who rejected Christ,
rejected His cross,
and now want to cling to a bloodline and a piece of dirt
like God is impressed with their ancestry.

It’s not replacement theology.
It’s fulfillment theology.
It’s exactly what Jesus taught.
It’s exactly what Paul, Peter, John, and every early Christian understood:

“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed.” — Galatians 3:29
“Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel.” — Romans 9:6
“He is not a Jew who is one outwardly… but inwardly, by the Spirit.” — Romans 2:28–29
“There is neither Jew nor Greek… for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” — Galatians 3:28
“One new man from the two… thus making peace.” — Ephesians 2:15

The New Covenant doesn’t replace anything —
It fulfills everything.
And it unites all people — Jew and Gentile — into one Body, one people, one Israel of God.

You want to know what actually replaces God’s covenant?

Scofield theology does.
It replaces the Gospel with Zionist nationalism.
It replaces the cross with a flag.
It replaces faith with race.
It replaces the Body of Christ with a political project.
And it tells the Church to sit down, shut up, and wait to be raptured while Christless, Eastern European rebels inherit the promises.
That’s not theology.
That’s heresy.
That’s antichrist doctrine wearing a yarmulke and waving a Scofield Study Bible.

The truth is this:
The Church hasn’t replaced Israel.
The Church is Israel.
Not because of blood.
Not because of geography.

But because of the blood of Jesus Christ —
the true Seed of Abraham — who grafts all who believe into the olive tree of promise.

If you reject that, you’re not defending Scripture.
You’re attacking the Gospel itself.

So don’t throw the word replacement at me like it’s some kind of rebuke.
It’s not.

It’s a badge of honor to be hated for believing exactly what Jesus and His apostles taught:

That all who are in Christ are the true sons of God —
the true Israel.

 

[Doug]

That all who are in Christ are the true sons of God —
the true Israel.

I disagree

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

I disagree

Me >
That all who are in Christ are the true sons of God —
the true Israel.

You >
“I disagree.”

Then you don’t disagree with me.
You disagree with Paul.
You disagree with the apostles.
You disagree with the Holy Spirit.
You disagree with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Because scripture says:

“For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.”
— Galatians 3:26

“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
— Galatians 3:29

“Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel.”
— Romans 9:6

“He is not a Jew who is one outwardly... but inwardly, by the Spirit.”
— Romans 2:28–29

You don’t believe what Jesus and Paul taught.
You don’t believe what the Gospel declares.
You’ve traded the blood of Christ for the blood of Abraham —
and the Spirit for the flesh.

You’ve rejected the fulfillment of prophecy for the fantasy of ethnic entitlement.
You’ve replaced the Body of Christ with the idol of race and real estate.

You call that faith?

I call it apostasy in slow motion.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You just said, “No one makes it through the tribulation.”
So now you’re not just denying Scripture —
You’re calling Jesus a liar.

Because Jesus said:

“He who endures to the end shall be saved.” (Matt. 24:13)

“Immediately after the tribulation... He will gather His elect.” (Matt. 24:29–31)

So tell me — who’s He gathering after the tribulation if nobody endures it?

Your doctrine isn’t Christianity —
It’s dispensationalist delusion in footnote form.

You’ve traded Christ’s warnings for Scofield’s fantasies,
replacing the call to endurance with a counterfeit promise of escape.

You say, “The Antichrist kills all the saints.”
But Scripture says:

“The Beast will make war on the saints…” — Revelation 13:7
“And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony…” — Revelation 12:11

They didn’t escape.
They overcame.

Your theology turns martyrs into failures
and tribulation into a scheduling error.

You’ve built your entire eschatology on a 19th-century hoax,
crafted in Oxford, footnoted by Scofield,
and spoon-fed to churches too lazy to read the actual words of Christ.

Jesus gave one timeline:

“Immediately after the tribulation…”

You tossed it out to keep your fantasy rapture chart intact.

But when the tribulation hits and there’s no getaway bus,
you’ll remember this moment —
and who warned you.

Not Scofield.
Not your misled pastor.
Jesus Christ — and everyone who still believes what He actually said.

"All recieve the mark not written in the book"

I see you did not address that.
Your word salad deflected what is written.
You were unable to wiggle out of what is written.
Instead you invoke dead men futilly.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Me >
That all who are in Christ are the true sons of God —
the true Israel.

You >
“I disagree.”

Then you don’t disagree with me.
You disagree with Paul.
You disagree with the apostles.
You disagree with the Holy Spirit.
You disagree with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Because scripture says:

“For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.”
— Galatians 3:26

“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
— Galatians 3:29

“Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel.”
— Romans 9:6

“He is not a Jew who is one outwardly... but inwardly, by the Spirit.”
— Romans 2:28–29

You don’t believe what Jesus and Paul taught.
You don’t believe what the Gospel declares.
You’ve traded the blood of Christ for the blood of Abraham —
and the Spirit for the flesh.

You’ve rejected the fulfillment of prophecy for the fantasy of ethnic entitlement.
You’ve replaced the Body of Christ with the idol of race and real estate.

You call that faith?

I call it apostasy in slow motion.

144k out of the 12 tribes..

Ethnic Jews.

Stop changing the bible

 

[Doug]

It’s a badge of honor to be hated for believing exactly what Jesus and His apostles taught:

I have no animosity toward you

 

[rebuilder 454]

Anyone who claims a "pre-trib" rapture is lying and is directly going against the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, against the OT Prophets and against the Apostles.

God's promise is that His Saints are delivered from His Wrath = Gospel, OT Prophets, Apostles

"wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come." - 1 Thess 1:10

IOW...the bible is wrong about the AC killing all the saints.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You just said, “No one makes it through the tribulation.”
So now you’re not just denying Scripture —
You’re calling Jesus a liar.

Because Jesus said:

“He who endures to the end shall be saved.” (Matt. 24:13)

“Immediately after the tribulation... He will gather His elect.” (Matt. 24:29–31)

So tell me — who’s He gathering after the tribulation if nobody endures it?

Your doctrine isn’t Christianity —
It’s dispensationalist delusion in footnote form.

You’ve traded Christ’s warnings for Scofield’s fantasies,
replacing the call to endurance with a counterfeit promise of escape.

You say, “The Antichrist kills all the saints.”
But Scripture says:

“The Beast will make war on the saints…” — Revelation 13:7
“And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony…” — Revelation 12:11

They didn’t escape.
They overcame.

Your theology turns martyrs into failures
and tribulation into a scheduling error.

You’ve built your entire eschatology on a 19th-century hoax,
crafted in Oxford, footnoted by Scofield,
and spoon-fed to churches too lazy to read the actual words of Christ.

Jesus gave one timeline:

“Immediately after the tribulation…”

You tossed it out to keep your fantasy rapture chart intact.

But when the tribulation hits and there’s no getaway bus,
you’ll remember this moment —
and who warned you.

Not Scofield.
Not your misled pastor.
Jesus Christ — and everyone who still believes what He actually said.

Lol
You omitted "....and they loved not their lives unto death"
It says CLEARLY the AC is given power over the saints, and overcomes them.

They are all martyred.
You simply can not wiggle out of it.

 

[Doug]

Me >
That all who are in Christ are the true sons of God —
the true Israel.

You >
“I disagree.”

Then you don’t disagree with me.
You disagree with Paul.
You disagree with the apostles.
You disagree with the Holy Spirit.
You disagree with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Because scripture says:

“For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.”
— Galatians 3:26

“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
— Galatians 3:29

“Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel.”
— Romans 9:6

“He is not a Jew who is one outwardly... but inwardly, by the Spirit.”
— Romans 2:28–29

You don’t believe what Jesus and Paul taught.
You don’t believe what the Gospel declares.
You’ve traded the blood of Christ for the blood of Abraham —
and the Spirit for the flesh.

You’ve rejected the fulfillment of prophecy for the fantasy of ethnic entitlement.
You’ve replaced the Body of Christ with the idol of race and real estate.

You call that faith?

I call it apostasy in slow motion.

“For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.”
— Galatians 3:26

I agree with this verse and all the others but I dont agree with your interpretation

“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
— Galatians 3:29

[Gal 4:7 KJV] 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

[Rom 8:16-17 KJV] 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.

We are heirs of God /Christ not Abraham........by the promise of faith Galatians 3;8 14.

“Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel.”
— Romans 9:6

True Israel is by faith not being born in the land of Israel

“He is not a Jew who is one outwardly... but inwardly, by the Spirit.”
— Romans 2:28–29

A Jew is a Jew by birth but this verse is saying the circumcision in the flesh does not make a Jew in the spirit...........[Deu 10:16 KJV] 16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.......it doesnt mean we are Israel

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Lol
You omitted "....and they loved not their lives unto death"
It says CLEARLY the AC is given power over the saints, and overcomes them.

They are all martyred.
You simply can not wiggle out of it.

I didn't “omit” anything.
I quoted the verse you just proved you don’t understand.

Let’s read it together, since context clearly isn’t your strong suit:

“And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, and they loved not their lives unto the death.” — Revelation 12:11

Yes — many are martyred.
But what does the verse say?

They. Overcame. Him.

You think martyrdom equals failure?
You think dying for Christ is losing?
Then you’ve completely missed the Gospel.

Because Revelation doesn’t say Satan overcomes them —
It says they overcome him —
by faith,
by testimony,
by refusing to bow even unto death.

That's not defeat.
That’s victory in blood.

Your eschatology turns the saints’ crown into a casualty report.
Jesus calls it overcoming.

You call it wiping them all out and leaving no one to gather.

But again — who does Jesus say He’s coming back for?

“Immediately after the tribulation… He will gather His elect.” — Matthew 24:29–31

You can’t gather zero people.
The elect endure — whether through martyrdom or miraculous preservation.
That’s why Jesus says:

“He who endures to the end shall be saved.” — Matthew 24:13

You say they’re all dead.
Jesus says some endure.

Who am I going to believe?
Jesus Christ —
or the guy quoting quarter-verses while treating prophecy like it’s a Marvel movie timeline?

Your doctrine isn’t just wrong —
It’s faithless,
fleshly,
and soaked in the delusion that the Antichrist gets the last word.

News flash:
“Then the beast was captured…” — Revelation 19:20
“…and the rest were slain with the sword that proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse.”

Jesus doesn’t rescue His people before the fight.
He shows up at the climax — and wipes the floor with the Beast after the saints have overcome by blood and testimony.

So keep mocking.
Keep misquoting.
Keep building your theology around escape.

But when the sky splits and your pre-trib fantasy doesn’t show up,
you’ll remember what Jesus said —
and who told you the truth.
Not Scofield.
Not Darby.
Not your prophecy chart.
Jesus Christ — and everyone who still believes what He actually said.

And I’ve got to be honest with you:
Based on all your posts in this thread, I’m not even sure what you follow is Christianity at all.
Because it sure isn’t the Gospel Jesus preached.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

I agree with this verse and all the others but I dont agree with your interpretation

[Gal 4:7 KJV] 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

[Rom 8:16-17 KJV] 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.

We are heirs of God /Christ not Abraham........by the promise of faith Galatians 3;8 14.



True Israel is by faith not being born in the land of Israel

A Jew is a Jew by birth but this verse is saying the circumcision in the flesh does not make a Jew in the spirit...........[Deu 10:16 KJV] 16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.......it doesnt mean we are Israel

Me > That all who are in Christ are the true sons of God — the true Israel.

You > “I agree with the verses… but not your interpretation.”

Here’s the problem:
It’s not my interpretation.
It’s Paul’s plain declaration — repeated, reinforced, and made unavoidably clear across multiple letters.

Let’s go one by one:
“For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.” — Gal. 3:26
“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” — Gal. 3:29

You say, “We’re heirs of God, not of Abraham.”

But Paul says:
If you belong to Christ, then you ARE Abraham’s seed.
You don’t get to accept the sonship and then reject the inheritance.
The whole point is that Abraham’s promise has now passed into Christ, and Christ shares it with His body.

“To Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He does not say, ‘And to seeds,’ as of many, but as of one, ‘And to your Seed,’ who is Christ.” — Gal. 3:16

So yes — all who are in Christ inherit the Abrahamic promise.
And guess what that makes them?

The Israel of God. (Galatians 6:16)

You quote Romans 8 and Galatians 4 — about being heirs of God through Christ.
Exactly.
Because in Christ, all things promised to Abraham are fulfilled in the Kingdom of God —
not in the Levant, not in geopolitical boundaries, and not through ethnicity.

“Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel.” — Romans 9:6

You admit “True Israel is by faith.”

Exactly.

So what do we call those who have faith in Christ?
True Israel.
Paul’s argument is not that unbelieving Jews remain Israel.
It’s that believers — Jew or Gentile — are now the only ones who qualify.

You’re trying to have it both ways.
Paul doesn’t.
There’s one tree, not two.
One covenant, not two.
One people, not two.

“He is not a Jew who is one outwardly... but inwardly, by the Spirit.” — Romans 2:28–29

You say this means Jews must be Jews and circumcised in the heart.
Wrong.
Paul isn’t reinforcing Jewish identity —
He’s redefining it completely.

He’s saying that a true Jew — a true covenant member —
is one who has the inward circumcision of the Spirit, not the flesh.

That’s not a validation of Judaism.
It’s a repudiation of it — apart from Christ.

You don’t get to affirm that faith makes us heirs,
then turn around and say that doesn’t make us Israel —
when Paul explicitly says: faith = inheritance = seed of Abraham = heirs = Israel of God.

Bottom line:
You agree with the words,
but you reject what they say.
That’s not exegesis.
That’s spiritual blindness.

And the reason is simple:

You’re still trying to preserve a carnal people and a fleshly promise,
when the New Covenant fulfills all of it in Christ alone.

You say: “It doesn’t mean we are Israel.”

Then Paul, Peter, and Jesus all disagree with you.

Because:

“You are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people...” — 1 Peter 2:9

“There shall be one flock and one shepherd.” — John 10:16

“That He might create in Himself one new man from the two…” — Ephesians 2:15

So no — I’m not misinterpreting anything.

You’re just not ready to let the footnotes go and finally accept that Jesus fulfilled it all.

And regarding your comment — “True Israel is by faith, not being born in the land of Israel… a Jew is a Jew by birth” —
let’s get something straight about this carousel of insanity:

95%+ of the population in modern False Israel™ — aka Rothschilds-land — are not “biblical Jews.”
They are Eastern Europeans, Russians, Poles, and Ashkenazim —
descendants of the Khazar empire,
a pagan people who didn’t convert to Judaism until around 740 AD,
and only did so by royal decree — under the threat of the sword.

They are not the children of Abraham.
They are not ethnic Israelites.
And they are absolutely not “God’s chosen people.”

Which makes the entire Dispensationalist argument not just wrong —
but bizarre, insane, and so mind-bendingly delusional
it belongs in a theological insane asylum somewhere between Scofield’s footnotes and a political hallucination.

You’re not defending the faith.
You’re propping up a Zionist fraud —
built on a counterfeit ethnicity, a hijacked covenant,
and a gospel made subordinate to land deeds, bloodlines, and flags.

And even if they were “ethnic biblical Jews” — which the vast majority are not —
it still wouldn’t matter.

Because there is no such thing as a 'chosen people' outside of Christ.
There never was.
There never will be.

Which makes this entire obsession with “blessing modern Israel”
not just misguided —
but an exercise in blasphemous, theologically bankrupt insanity.

This isn’t theology.
It’s a geopolitical psy-op wrapped in Scofield’s footnotes and marketed as eschatology.

It’s not obedience.
It’s idolatry in disguise — and Jesus isn’t in it.

 

[David in NJ]

IOW...the bible is wrong about the AC killing all the saints.

Satan's wrath is NOT God's WRATH.

LORD Jesus Christ told us we would suffer satan's wrath = GOSPEL

John 16:33 "In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

Matthew 10:28 - "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Matt 24:9 - "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake."

Revelation 2:0 - "Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life."

 

[Doug]

You’re still trying to preserve a carnal people and a fleshly promise,
when the New Covenant fulfills all of it in Christ alone.

what do you say the new covenant is

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

what do you say the new covenant is

The New Covenant is NOT about land, ethnicity, or national borders.
It’s NOT about restarting Old Testament rituals or favoring one bloodline over another.

The New Covenant is Christ Himself —
the fulfillment of every shadow, every promise, every covenant.

“This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” — Matthew 26:28

“He is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.” — Hebrews 8:6

The New Covenant:

— Is not written on stone, but on hearts.

“I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts...” — Jeremiah 31:33 / Hebrews 8:10

— Is not for one nation, but for all who believe.

“There is no difference between Jew and Gentile...” — Romans 10:12

— Does not hinge on bloodlines, but on the blood of the Lamb.

“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” — Galatians 3:29

— Is not about “We don’t need Jesus, we’re special because the Old Testament said so!”
It’s about the Gospel of Christ — which they openly reject.

Paul (a Jew) affirmed this in the Gospel:
“They were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith.” — Romans 11:20

Rejecting Christ means cutting yourself off from the very covenant they claim to own.

Paul’s message is clear:
The promises were never about race, or ritual, or Torah law —
they were always about Christ.

But somehow, they’ve convinced millions of brainwashed, Scofield-discipled Christians to believe the same thing:

That Christ-rejecters still inherit the promises,
that faith is optional,
and that God has two peoples with two plans.

But the New Covenant says otherwise:
There is one way in. One body. One Shepherd. One Kingdom.

And His name is Jesus Christ —
not Judah, not Zionism, and definitely not the Knesset.

So what is the New Covenant?
It’s the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
It’s the forgiveness of sins.
It’s access to the Father through the blood of the Son.
It’s the one Body — made up of every tribe, tongue, and nation — in union with the true Israel: Jesus Christ.

He is the Covenant.
Everything else — temple, land, law — pointed to Him.
And now that He’s come, there’s no going back to the shadows.

The reason this deception gained so much ground is simple:
Christians stopped identifying as the fulfillment of Israel.
We weren’t called “New Covenant Jews” — we were called Christians.
And over time, the Church forgot that in Christ, we are the true Israel.

That gap — that loss of identity — created just enough space
for Scofield, Zionism, and political fraud to sell a lie in the early 1900s:

That someone else — someone outside of Christ —
could still be “chosen.”

But the New Testament is clear:
If you're not in Christ, you're not in the covenant.
You're not in the promise.
And you're not part of Israel.

Only the Body of Christ inherits the Kingdom —
because He is the Kingdom.

 

[keithr]

Because there is no such thing as a 'chosen people' outside of Christ.

Deuteronomy 7:6 (WEB):

(6) For you are a holy people to Yahweh your God. Yahweh your God has chosen you to be a people for his own possession, above all peoples who are on the face of the earth.​

 

[rebuilder 454]

Satan's wrath is NOT God's WRATH.

LORD Jesus Christ told us we would suffer satan's wrath = GOSPEL

John 16:33 "In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

Matthew 10:28 - "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Matt 24:9 - "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake."

Revelation 2:0 - "Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life."

The AC kills all refusing the mark.
That fact alone debunks any hope of going through the trib.

You guys have such a dilemma because you OMIT the pretrib rapture verses.
So debating you guys like taking candy from a baby.
Easy peeezy

 

[rebuilder 454]

The New Covenant is NOT about land, ethnicity, or national borders.
It’s NOT about restarting Old Testament rituals or favoring one bloodline over another.

The New Covenant is Christ Himself —
the fulfillment of every shadow, every promise, every covenant.

“This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” — Matthew 26:28

“He is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.” — Hebrews 8:6

The New Covenant:

— Is not written on stone, but on hearts.

“I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts...” — Jeremiah 31:33 / Hebrews 8:10

— Is not for one nation, but for all who believe.

“There is no difference between Jew and Gentile...” — Romans 10:12

— Does not hinge on bloodlines, but on the blood of the Lamb.

“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” — Galatians 3:29

— Is not about “We don’t need Jesus, we’re special because the Old Testament said so!”
It’s about the Gospel of Christ — which they openly reject.

Paul (a Jew) affirmed this in the Gospel:
“They were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith.” — Romans 11:20

Rejecting Christ means cutting yourself off from the very covenant they claim to own.

Paul’s message is clear:
The promises were never about race, or ritual, or Torah law —
they were always about Christ.

But somehow, they’ve convinced millions of brainwashed, Scofield-discipled Christians to believe the same thing:

That Christ-rejecters still inherit the promises,
that faith is optional,
and that God has two peoples with two plans.

But the New Covenant says otherwise:
There is one way in. One body. One Shepherd. One Kingdom.

And His name is Jesus Christ —
not Judah, not Zionism, and definitely not the Knesset.

So what is the New Covenant?
It’s the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
It’s the forgiveness of sins.
It’s access to the Father through the blood of the Son.
It’s the one Body — made up of every tribe, tongue, and nation — in union with the true Israel: Jesus Christ.

He is the Covenant.
Everything else — temple, land, law — pointed to Him.
And now that He’s come, there’s no going back to the shadows.

The reason this deception gained so much ground is simple:
Christians stopped identifying as the fulfillment of Israel.
We weren’t called “New Covenant Jews” — we were called Christians.
And over time, the Church forgot that in Christ, we are the true Israel.

That gap — that loss of identity — created just enough space
for Scofield, Zionism, and political fraud to sell a lie in the early 1900s:

That someone else — someone outside of Christ —
could still be “chosen.”

But the New Testament is clear:
If you're not in Christ, you're not in the covenant.
You're not in the promise.
And you're not part of Israel.

Only the Body of Christ inherits the Kingdom —
because He is the Kingdom.

I read your deal.
I had to chuckle that you left out the grafting back in of the COVENANT JEWS.
You left off that Paul made the distinction AS A BELIEVER, that the Jews were his brethren.
Paul said the Gospel MUST BE PREACHED TO THE JEW first and THEN to the Greek.

Who is Gomer in the book of Hosea?
Who does she represent?
In the Book of Ruth we see that there's 3 key players.
there is Boaz, and Ruth and Naomi.
In your doctrine, Naomi has completely disappeared, Is cast down and cast off .
...and is not part of Boaz household.
That is the problem With that doctrine of replacement theology.

You try to present yourself as some expert, and push 2 anti bible doctrines.
1) you do not understand that the rapture is the gathering of the bride.
So your foundation of eschatology is flawed.
All escatology is viewed through the 2 covenants, which are the 2 brides.
You basically need a completely new starting place for all your escatology, and that's part of your problem is that you have a really flawed starting place.
I have noticed this flaw with practically every single Post trib rapture believer, is, their starting place.
You guys Just can't stand the concept of a pre-tribulation rapture, and so your main doctrine is anti Pretrib rapture.
. So you guys take that flawed starting place and think you can just discredit everything anybody says concerning a pre-tribulation rapture.
And at the same time, you cannot make a case for a post tribulation rapture. There is not a single verse in the bible that supports your theory.
You even celebrate that man originated it!!!!
Oh the irony!!!!

2) how can anyone with a bible read romans 9, 10, 11, and come away with replacement theology????????

 

[rebuilder 454]

Satan's wrath is NOT God's WRATH.

LORD Jesus Christ told us we would suffer satan's wrath = GOSPEL

John 16:33 "In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

Matthew 10:28 - "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Matt 24:9 - "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake."

Revelation 2:0 - "Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life."

The point is, is that if they all die, there's nobody going to the end of the tribulation.
So you're posting verses to that effect. Not knowing that it's destroying your doctrine of a post tribulation rapture.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I didn't “omit” anything.
I quoted the verse you just proved you don’t understand.

Let’s read it together, since context clearly isn’t your strong suit:

“And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, and they loved not their lives unto the death.” — Revelation 12:11

Yes — many are martyred.
But what does the verse say?

They. Overcame. Him.

You think martyrdom equals failure?
You think dying for Christ is losing?
Then you’ve completely missed the Gospel.

Because Revelation doesn’t say Satan overcomes them —
It says they overcome him —
by faith,
by testimony,
by refusing to bow even unto death.

That's not defeat.
That’s victory in blood.

Your eschatology turns the saints’ crown into a casualty report.
Jesus calls it overcoming.

You call it wiping them all out and leaving no one to gather.

But again — who does Jesus say He’s coming back for?

“Immediately after the tribulation… He will gather His elect.” — Matthew 24:29–31

You can’t gather zero people.
The elect endure — whether through martyrdom or miraculous preservation.
That’s why Jesus says:

“He who endures to the end shall be saved.” — Matthew 24:13

You say they’re all dead.
Jesus says some endure.

Who am I going to believe?
Jesus Christ —
or the guy quoting quarter-verses while treating prophecy like it’s a Marvel movie timeline?

Your doctrine isn’t just wrong —
It’s faithless,
fleshly,
and soaked in the delusion that the Antichrist gets the last word.

News flash:
“Then the beast was captured…” — Revelation 19:20
“…and the rest were slain with the sword that proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse.”

Jesus doesn’t rescue His people before the fight.
He shows up at the climax — and wipes the floor with the Beast after the saints have overcome by blood and testimony.

So keep mocking.
Keep misquoting.
Keep building your theology around escape.

But when the sky splits and your pre-trib fantasy doesn’t show up,
you’ll remember what Jesus said —
and who told you the truth.
Not Scofield.
Not Darby.
Not your prophecy chart.
Jesus Christ — and everyone who still believes what He actually said.

And I’ve got to be honest with you:
Based on all your posts in this thread, I’m not even sure what you follow is Christianity at all.
Because it sure isn’t the Gospel Jesus preached.

Wow.
You seem to get everything I say wrong.
Martyrdom is the highest reward.
Instead of ADDRESSING WHAT I wrote,
Ahem...SIMPLY SHOWING YOU WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS, you go into some sideshow smear.

Look..martyrdom is ;
1) testimony
2) an overcoming act
3) dying In victory.
Ahem... the martyrs refusing the mark DID SO BECAUSE OF THEIR TESTIMONY FOR JESUS.
THEY ARE SAVED PEOPLE.
Every martyr on the planet has been martyred because the are saved by blood and their testimony of Jesus, and yes the loved not their lives unto death.

"And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, and they loved not their lives unto the death.”

"And power was given him to overcome the saints"
" every man woman and child recieved the mark who's names are not written in the book of life "
Rev 20 shows those beheaded BY THE AC.
IN Daniel it says the AC kills the saints.

In every postribbers mind they think "endures to the end" means the end of the trib.

That means all that have died previously did not " endure to the end"?
The martyrs in the trib?
Only you and two other believers running from cave to cave to ESCAPE martyrdom actually " endure to the end"?????

Do you see the folly in that postrib rapture doctrine?????

I hope now you see that NO BELIEVER " makes it through the trib.