Infant Baptism is not given in scripture.

[Seeding Loving]

there is a lot of bad blood between the Catholics and Protestants….there were even wars between the Catholics and Protestants, but most do not know enough about history to be knowledgeable about that. And the history of the Catholics is both good and bad.

if i was supposed to quote your post in its entirety, i sincerely apologies ☬ I'm just assuming in good faith it is ok as long as not used to manipulate :"out of context :"

but i agree 100%

☬
There have been thousands of Roman Catholic Martyrs who have opposed corrupt government systems. Thousands of Godly and Saintly Catholics have been killed and tortured for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time .

The majority of Catholic martyrs were killed and abused throughout England from the 15 th - to - 17 th century.

A protestant king or Queen would take the throne in England and the entire Catholic population - then would suddenly be legally considered / announced - as unloyal and traitorous to the new protestant government. Then Catholics would be hunted down and abused and killed. Then after a few years a Catholic King or Queen would take the throne and the Protestants would be hunted down and abused and killed as well.

This changing system went on in England for nearly 300 years and thousands of good people were killed and tortured and their lives ruined - simply for not renouncing their Catholic or Protestant faith and immediately converting to the Government established religion reflecting the new government. Religion itself - became a literal government war back and forth many times over - again and again changing back and forth. This was truly a horrible situation especially for Roman Catholics who eventually lost the war in England and the English government prohibited and banned all Catholics from participating in the English government. This law of prohibiting and banning all Catholics from the government stayed in effect until the - " Roman Catholic Relief Act of - 1829 " was passed in the English parliment.

Both Catholic governments and Protestant - alike, abused, tortured and killed thousands of its English citizens going back and forth in a battle changing religion with every changing throne and many of the victims were good people and innocently did nothing wrong but - live their lives and raise families in peace. This is a horrible event with corrupt and wretched government systems conducting such evil acts.

Even in Spain, Italy, France, Portugal and many, many other Catholic countries, there were thousands of victims who did not wish to follow the Roman Catholic governments religious system and throughout the middle ages, the Roman Catholic Church waged a bloody, violent and horrible war against thousands of victims who simply refused to convert to the Catholic faith. And the most horrible thing is that the Popes were the ones who instigated and commanded this for all Roman Catholics in Europe. to follow. The Popes even sent inquisitors and officers out dispatched from the command of the Popes to hunt down and hurt thousands of people. - We can not imagine the horrors that so many people have been through.

My heart goes out to these thousands of victims on both sides who suffered so horribly. The English Protestant Kings and Queens - were were not only JUST defending themselves from whom they considered " unloyal Catholics " in England but The Protestants government in England also went after other Christian who were not Protestant or Catholic.

My heart goes out to these thousands of victims on all sides who suffered so horribly.

 

[David Lamb]

Except for when Mathias replaced Judas......other than that "Nowhere" can it be found. And your theory that the Apostles practiced what they preached only 1 time....when Judas was replaced....is laughable especially if you ignore historical Christian writings.

Thanks for your time David.....Mary.

Yes, I assumed we had already covered the one-off replacement for Judas. Sorry, I should have made that clear.

 

[Grailhunter]

if i was supposed to quote your post in its entirety, i sincerely apologies ☬ I'm just assuming in good faith it is ok as long as not used to manipulate :"out of context :"

but i agree 100%

☬
There have been thousands of Roman Catholic Martyrs who have opposed corrupt government systems. Thousands of Godly and Saintly Catholics have been killed and tortured for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time .

The majority of Catholic martyrs were killed and abused throughout England from the 15 th - to - 17 th century.

A protestant king or Queen would take the throne in England and the entire Catholic population - then would suddenly be legally considered / announced - as unloyal and traitorous to the new protestant government. Then Catholics would be hunted down and abused and killed. Then after a few years a Catholic King or Queen would take the throne and the Protestants would be hunted down and abused and killed as well.

This changing system went on in England for nearly 300 years and thousands of good people were killed and tortured and their lives ruined - simply for not renouncing their Catholic or Protestant faith and immediately converting to the Government established religion reflecting the new government. Religion itself - became a literal government war back and forth many times over - again and again changing back and forth. This was truly a horrible situation especially for Roman Catholics who eventually lost the war in England and the English government prohibited and banned all Catholics from participating in the English government. This law of prohibiting and banning all Catholics from the government stayed in effect until the - " Roman Catholic Relief Act of - 1829 " was passed in the English parliment.

Both Catholic governments and Protestant - alike, abused, tortured and killed thousands of its English citizens going back and forth in a battle changing religion with every changing throne and many of the victims were good people and innocently did nothing wrong but - live their lives and raise families in peace. This is a horrible event with corrupt and wretched government systems conducting such evil acts.

Even in Spain, Italy, France, Portugal and many, many other Catholic countries, there were thousands of victims who did not wish to follow the Roman Catholic governments religious system and throughout the middle ages, the Roman Catholic Church waged a bloody, violent and horrible war against thousands of victims who simply refused to convert to the Catholic faith. And the most horrible thing is that the Popes were the ones who instigated and commanded this for all Roman Catholics in Europe. to follow. The Popes even sent inquisitors and officers out dispatched from the command of the Popes to hunt down and hurt thousands of people. - We can not imagine the horrors that so many people have been through.

My heart goes out to these thousands of victims on both sides who suffered so horribly. The English Protestant Kings and Queens - were were not only JUST defending themselves from whom they considered " unloyal Catholics " in England but The Protestants government in England also went after other Christian who were not Protestant or Catholic.

My heart goes out to these thousands of victims on all sides who suffered so horribly.

Historians know of the violence and atrocities involved with Christianity and the Middle Ages and back in the Old Testament…. Some of it is horrific. Horror...mind boggling evil.
But what is important is what we do today. Whether we are good Christians and fight evil.

Ever have a guy try to convince you that he is a good guy and says .....I am the kinda guy that….
Well you are not what you say you are….you are what you do. That is why Paul said....For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2nd Corinthians 5:10

 

[DJT_47]

Only if they have been through confirmation does an infant's Christening (named before God) become a Baptism.

Babies do not know right from wrong. It's not until year two that they even begin to have any sort of memory. (And it isn't much).

So....it's a somewhat given.

And in your response (don't know if that's your belief or not), therein lies the problem which is unscriptural as well as makes no sense.

If infants don't know right from wrong, how could they have transgressed and be guilty of sin?? So, why would they need their sins washed away by baptism, forgiven, if they've not committed sin?? It ain't possible and makes no sense.

And, there is no such process as "confirmation", an after-the-fact acknowledgement of their belief; that is a man made-up, unscriptural doctrine that's contrary to scripture. In all cases of conversion and related salvation scripture, belief is the number one requirement, the prerequisite to baptism. No one can believe for another.

 

[JohnDB]

And in your response (don't know if that's your belief or not), therein lies the problem which is unscriptural as well as makes no sense.

If infants don't know right from wrong, how could they have transgressed and be guilty of sin?? So, why would they need their sins washed away by baptism, forgiven, if they've not committed sin?? It ain't possible and makes no sense.

And, there is no such process as "confirmation", an after-the-fact acknowledgement of their belief; that is a man made-up, unscriptural doctrine that's contrary to scripture. In all cases of conversion and related salvation scripture, belief is the number one requirement, the prerequisite to baptism. No one can believe for another.

It's not my belief....it's a Catholic Church doctrine. (I'm a "rim of the pail" Baptist)

I just understand their logic. Didn't say that I agree with their logic....I just understand it.

People get hung up over the ordinances. You believe that Baptism is for repentance (which you just stated) . I don't share your belief in that particular aspect of Baptism. I believe in the three functions. (Joining the body of followers, public statement, and priesthood of every believer)

I'm not going to the mat against your beliefs or the Catholics. I just understand the reasoning behind your and the Catholics beliefs. Not saying they or you are evil or corrupted or anything else. I just use a bit different logic and understanding.
Because.....

I believe that the whole of the Bible is in the Two Greatest Commandments. Basically it's about relationships. How to have positive relationships with God and Man. An ordinance performed correctly or incorrectly is something that solidifies faith for people. And Jesus was forever asking people "Where is your faith?" As well as saying "you of little faith".

I'm about faith building not faith destroying....and people have varying levels of scholastic abilities. They have to rely upon what they have been taught and learned from books (teachings of others) .

Ever see those acrobats who keep china plates spinning on straws? Studying the Bible is alot like that. It was written over 5,700 (almost 6k) years ago with the newest parts 2,000 years ago in another language on the other side of the planet with drastically different cultures. It was written in a very concentrated fashion (paper and ink was very expensive and mostly a luxury item) So all the things they thought as "obvious" information was left unwritten. Which needs to be studied today along side of scriptures to get the full meaning of what was written, why it was written and the fashion it was written in.
I can't spin and balance china plates on straws. But I can hold several bits of history, geography, sociology, anthropology, topography, language mechanics, and meteorology together at the same time. Your mileage may vary. I'm an electrician, I'm not as dumb as I look and I really look dumb.

 

[Marymog]

Yes, I assumed we had already covered the one-off replacement for Judas. Sorry, I should have made that clear.

So your theory is that the Apostles practiced what they preached only 1 time; when they replaced Judas? When the 11 other Apostles died there was no vote on who would take their place? Is that your theory?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

I was baptized into Christ as the scriptures teach which is the only way.

You dodged my question again : My doctrine is "man-made" and your doctrine is.......God made?

I will reword it for you: I read the bible. I interpret a passage in the bible that says you MUST do ABC to be saved. That is my doctrine.

You read that same passage and you say a person does NOT have to do ABC to be saved. You accuse me of teaching a false doctrine.

Is your doctrine man-made OR is my doctrine man-made?

Patient Mary

 

[Marymog]

Follow the actual scriptures, where they lead you and not secondary or tertiary documents or the men that "spoke to the Apostles". I choose to follow the scriptures.

Lol......Let me see if I have your theory correct: The men who were taught by the Apostles were NOT following the actual Scriptures when they wrote their interpretations? I should ignore them and only follow MY interpretation of Scripture?

Is that what you a suggesting?

 

[Behold]

Lol......Let me see if I have your theory correct: The men who were taught by the Apostles

The Apostles taught nothing about Mary, regarding theology or doctrine.

Yet the "cult of mary" is nothing but Mary....... isnt that right @Marymog ?

Not one thing you beleive about MARY, was taught by an Apostle.

The only thing one of them said in scripture is that "mary is blessed among women".....and then the "cult of mary" twisted this into science fiction theology, regarding falsefying Mary's ultra importance.

What happens if you take Mary out of the Catholic Church Theology and ceremony?

The DOORS will close, and this cult will end..
-

 

[DJT_47]

So your theory is that the Apostles practiced what they preached only 1 time; when they replaced Judas? When the 11 other Apostles died there was no vote on who would take their place? Is that your theory?

Curious Mary

It's no theory, that's what the scriptures say, which we can't enhance or augment as you're suggesting. You do know there were other apostles right, besides Matthias who replaced Judas, and Paul? Barnabas and Apollos. The Bible does say Barnabas and Saul (Paul) were, set apart, called out by God but doesn't say how Apollos apostleship came into being, but does refer to him too as an apostle.

 

[DJT_47]

Lol......Let me see if I have your theory correct: The men who were taught by the Apostles were NOT following the actual Scriptures when they wrote their interpretations? I should ignore them and only follow MY interpretation of Scripture?

Is that what you a suggesting?

Yes, don't listen to the cousin of the uncle of the brother of the friend of one of the apostles. Listen only to the original as recorded in scripture.

 

[Josho]

There is no such thing as infant baptism practiced by any Christian denomination.

There are Christenings....where the Child is given its "Christian" name and dedication to raising them in the knowledge of God. Some even speak blessings over babies....but that's as far as it goes.

Nobody baptized babies.

Hmmmm I also see these more as dedicating a baby to the Lord.

 

[Behold]

Hmmmm I also see these more as dedicating a baby to the Lord.

Here is how the Catholic Cult sees it.
But you go ahead and keep trying to defend this religious cult., as you seem to be self- employed of yourself to continue..

A.)"" Catholics baptize babies to remove original sin, initiate them into the Church, and give them the Holy Spirit and sanctifying grace. """"

 

[Dash RipRock]

Ask a catholic if they have been baptised and see what they say.

They don't get baptized, they get squirted with fake holy water

 

[Josho]

Here is how the Catholic Cult sees it.
But you go ahead and keep trying to defend this religious cult., as you seem to be self- employed of yourself to continue..

A.)"" Catholics baptize babies to remove original sin, initiate them into the Church, and give them the Holy Spirit and sanctifying grace. """"

I will have to check their Catechism later on this topic.

 

[Josho]

Well here is what I have found in the Catholic catechism so far.

537 Through Baptism the Christian is sacramentally assimilated to Jesus, who in his own baptism anticipates his death and resurrection. The Christian must enter into this mystery of humble self-abasement and repentance, go down into the water with Jesus in order to rise with him, be reborn of water and the Spirit so as to become the Father's beloved son in the Son and "walk in newness of life": 238

Let us be buried with Christ by Baptism to rise with him; let us go down with him to be raised with him; and let us rise with him to be glorified with him. 239 Everything that happened to Christ lets us know that, after the bath of water, the Holy Spirit swoops down upon us from high heaven and that, adopted by the Father's voice, we become sons of God. 240

 

[Dash RipRock]

I will have to check their Catechism later on this topic.

Why not go to God's Word and see what the Lord says?

 

[Searcher]

Jesus said many will come in his name. How many "vicars of Christ" has there been so far? Just for my own curiosity, was Peter a "vicar of Christ" also? According to the RCC that is.

 

[Dash RipRock]

Jesus said many will come in his name. How many "vicars of Christ" has there been so far? Just for my own curiosity, was Peter a "vicar of Christ" also? According to the RCC that is.

Yes, they think Peter was their first pope.

When Jesus said many will come in His Name, this also includes all those claiming to be anointed.

Matthew 24:4,5 - And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in My Name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

*Many includes those claiming "I am anointed" that are deceiving many (false teachers) because "Christ" means one sent of God and these false teachers all claim God sent them and they speak in behalf of God.

 

[Searcher]

Yes, they think Peter was their first pope.

When Jesus said many will come in His Name, this also includes all those claiming to be anointed.

Matthew 24:4,5 - And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in My Name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

*Many includes those claiming "I am anointed" that are deceiving many (false teachers) because "Christ" means one sent of God and these false teachers all claim God sent them and they speak in behalf of God.

Agreed but wouldnt that include the popes?