When did the 2nd temple literally initially cease being the holy place?

[Spiritual Israelite]

The "times of the Gentiles" as nothing to do with 70AD or the physical temple, etc. You got the timing wrong. The "times of the Gentiles" have to do with the New Testament congregation after their testimony is finished, when Satan is loosed where he works through the false prophets and christs in the congregations all over the world.



Correct.



Correct.



Disagree. This has NOTHING to do with physical city of Jersulaem, Roman Soliders, or 70AD stuff. This is the Holy City, the heavenly or spiritual Jerusalem which the external Church merely represents, both in the Old and New Testament. We are a part of this Holy City and Christ is the light.

Understanding these spiritual truths, we can better understand why God speaks of a falling away in 2nd Thessalonians chapter two. Where we see the figure of lawless man ruling in the Holy Temple 'as if' he were God Himself, we know it represents sinful man ruling in the external covenant or corporate Church, the representation of the true. This is how the Gentiles will tread down the Holy City. This city was meant to be the light of the World, but men led by the spirit of Satan, the spirit of antichrist, trampled it under foot. When the Gentiles trample the Holy City under foot, it is a figure of an assault on the spiritual city, first the Jews, and then the Gentiles Church, by the unsaved (Gentiles, the world) who cast the truth of God's Word down. They are those who have no fear of God (Psalms 36:1; Romans 3:8 and dare to usurp His Word by sitting to rule in the Church by their own word, 'as if' they were God.

Today, we see this great forsaking of God's Word in the Churches. Many in the Church are of the world, are rebellious, and have no root or strength in Christ, wherein they would endure this onslaught. The treading down is indeed a time of great tribulation for the 'true believers' in the end time. It is declared in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 as a time of great distress, and wrath upon these people, more specifically the court part of the Holy City, make of professed external believers, and it will last till the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled and Christ returns. Selah!

Do you imagine that I care at all about what you think after you acted like such a clown earlier by claiming that all the rest of us are wrong about everything? If so, think again. I don't take you seriously. At all.

 

[TribulationSigns]

And definition 2b again relates to the broader definition of the word shown in #2, but refers specifically to a certain type of people of the same stock rather than all of the people of that stock. That's how the word is used in Matthew 23:36 because that isn't referring to all Jewish people or all people in general, but rather refers specifically to a type of people like the Pharisees and scribes who were vipers, hypocrites and murderers of innocent servants of God. Jesus related the word in that verse to all such people going all the way back to Cain, since He said "this generation" was even responsible for Abel's death. But, even though that type of people going back to Cain were of "this generation", His focus was on those who were of "this generation" at that time in Jerusalem and He was referring to their destruction in particular. However, it can't be said that "this generation" only referred to those who were alive at that time He was speaking because many died before 70 AD and some who were killed in 70 AD were born or became Jews after the time when Jesus said those things. That shows that He had a particular type of people in mind there and not just those who were alive at that particular time when He was speaking.

Nope.

Declaring or speaking to His Generation is the revelation of Christ to His people, not the Jews only in the First Century, as opposed to the generation or family of evil (those who have ears, but cannot hear this declaration). For example, as prophesied that He would show the praises of the Lord to the generation or children to come, as opposed to the stubborn generation or children whose spirit was not steadfast with God:

Psalms 78:4-8

• "We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the LORD, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done.
• For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children:
• That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children:
• That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments:
• And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God."

Here are two distinct generations or families, one to whom Christ will be revealed and the other a stubborn and rebellious generation that set not their heart right, and whose spirit was not steadfast with God. Again, as God says in Psalms 145, the righteous of God are the generation who will praise God's works.

Psalms 145:3-5

• "Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised; and his greatness is unsearchable.
• One generation shall praise thy works to another, and shall declare thy mighty acts.
• I will speak of the glorious honour of thy majesty, and of thy wondrous works."

Like you, so many people are understanding generation to refer to a particular group of people living at one particular time, when generally God is referring to a spiritual family or children. People of the generation of vipers, and those of the generation of Christ, meaning His children/family! Do you realize that today, the antichrists, are part of the generation of vipers too?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Do you imagine that I care at all about what you think after you acted like such a clown earlier by claiming that all the rest of us are wrong about everything? If so, think again. I don't take you seriously. At all.

Does not matter if you read it or not. My posts that refute your interpretation are here as a record for anyone who has spiritual ears to hear, whether you like it or not. Grow up.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Like you, so many people are understanding generation to refer to a particular group of people living at one particular time,

You're clearly not reading everything I'm saying because that is not what I'm saying. Did you not see where I said that even Cain was part of "this generation"? So, "this generation" goes all the way back to Cain because Jesus said "this generation" is even responsible for Abel's death. So, "this generation" can't only include the unbelieving Jews like the Pharisees and scribes that Jesus was talking to in Matthew 23. However, Jesus was talking to them in particular and indicated that Jewish vipers, hypocrites and murderers in particular would be destroyed because of having killed the prophets and those who were sent to them to preach to them. But, Jesus was not just talking only about people who were alive at that time or about Jews in general. He was talking about a coming time when Jews who were of the type of people who are part of "this generation" of vipers, hypocrites and murderers that had existed since Cain would be destroyed.

It so happened that time came around 37 years later, but many of those Jesus was talking to at that time had died by then and some who were either not even alive at that time or became Jews after that time were killed in 70 AD. So, the idea that Jesus was only talking about Jews who were alive at the time He was speaking is not true. But, that's how preterists understand the word "genea" in that verse. No, it refers to a particular type of people who are vipers, hypocrites and murders of innocent servants of God.

But, in Matthew 24:34 it refers to either Jews in general or to people in general. The word "genea" can refer to either one. So, when "this generation" passes away (Matt 24:34), heaven and earth will pass away (Matt 24:35) ,which is what will happen when Jesus returns. And no one knows the day or hour when Jesus will come with heaven and earth and this generation passing away because He will come unexpectedly as a thief in the night to destroy heaven and earth (2 Peter 3:10-13) with "this generation" then passing away because after that there will be no races of people and things like that anymore as all Gods' people will be one together in the new heavens and new earth with all unbelievers being cast into the lake of fire at that point.

when generally God is referring to a spiritual family or children. People of the generation of vipers, and those of the generation of Christ, meaning His children/family! Do you realize that today, the antichrists, are part of the generation of vipers too?

Vipers in His family? LOL! That's a good one. You think He would consider people like the Pharisees and scribes that Jesus called vipers and hypocrites and murderers as being part of His family? That's nonsense. There are no vipers in His family. You do have it right that antichrists are in the generation of vipers, though. But, no such people are in God's family which consists only of those who belong to Christ.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Does not matter if you read it or not. My posts that refute your interpretation are here as a record for anyone who has spiritual ears to hear, whether you like it or not. Grow up.

The guy who says that everyone but him is wrong about everything is telling me to grow up. That's rich.

 

[WPM]

Like you, so many people are understanding generation to refer to a particular group of people living at one particular time, when generally God is referring to a spiritual family or children. People of the generation of vipers, and those of the generation of Christ, meaning His children/family! Do you realize that today, the antichrists, are part of the generation of vipers too?

Are you for real?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Are you for real?

LOL. I really hope he is not and is just an AI bot that someone put here to mess with us. It's hard to imagine that any real person could be like that.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You're clearly not reading everything I'm saying because that is not what I'm saying. Did you not see where I said that even Cain was part of "this generation"? So, "this generation" goes all the way back to Cain because Jesus said "this generation" is even responsible for Abel's death. So, "this generation" can't only include the unbelieving Jews like the Pharisees and scribes that Jesus was talking to in Matthew 23.

I am referring to the generation of evil—the generation of vipers, of which the Pharisees and Scribes are merely a part. This generation began with Cain, continued its course to the Cross, and will last until the Last Day, when everything will be fulfilled. Do you agree?

However, Jesus was talking to them in particular and indicated that Jewish vipers, hypocrites and murderers in particular would be destroyed because of having killed the prophets and those who were sent to them to preach to them.

This generation of evil did not end with the Pharisees and Scribes. Just because Christ transferred the kingdom representative from the Jews of the Old Testament does not mean that "this generation" has come to a close. Christ rebuilt the temple and entrusted the church with the kingdom representative. Therefore, this generation of evil has continued alongside the true chosen of the Church until all things are fulfilled. This is unrelated to the events of 70 AD.

But, Jesus was not just talking only about people who were alive at that time or about Jews in general. He was talking about a coming time when Jews who were of the type of people who are part of "this generation" of vipers, hypocrites and murderers that had existed since Cain would be destroyed.

The discussion is not specifically about the Jewish people in a physical sense, but rather about a spiritual family that includes both Jews and Gentiles. Let me ask you: when do you believe "this generation" ended?

It so happened that time came around 37 years later, but many of those Jesus was talking to at that time had died by then and some who were either not even alive at that time or became Jews after that time were killed in 70 AD. So, the idea that Jesus was only talking about Jews who were alive at the time He was speaking is not true. But, that's how preterists understand the word "genea" in that verse. No, it refers to a particular type of people who are vipers, hypocrites and murders of innocent servants of God.

Okay. And you said...

But, in Matthew 24:34 it refers to either Jews in general or to people in general.

The generation of Matthew 24:34 is ALL unsaved people of the congregation that came against the True Chosen Generation. Not limited only to the unbelieving Jews of the Old Testament.

The word "genea" can refer to either one. So, when "this generation" passes away (Matt 24:34), heaven and earth will pass away (Matt 24:35) ,which is what will happen when Jesus returns.

Yes, that WILL be when the generation of evil (or vipers) comes to an end!

And no one knows the day or hour when Jesus will come with heaven and earth and this generation passing away because He will come unexpectedly as a thief in the night to destroy heaven and earth (2 Peter 3:10-13) with "this generation" then passing away because after that there will be no races of people and things like that anymore as all Gods' people will be one together in the new heavens and new earth with all unbelievers being cast into the lake of fire at that point.

Races? LOL. No it speaks about the end of the spiritual family of Satan, regardless of races, and their destination is the Lake of Fire.

Vipers in His family? LOL! That's a good one.

What generation or family did you think I was talking about here, eh? When I talked about the vipers, I always talked about the generation of evil. Not the chosen generation! d

You think He would consider people like the Pharisees and scribes that Jesus called vipers and hypocrites and murderers as being part of His family? That's nonsense.

Where did I say that? Quote me.

There are no vipers in His family.

Like duh! There are no vipers in Christ's chosen generation/family. They are only found in "this generation" which Christ spoke of being EVIL. Get this fact through your thick skull first.

You do have it right that antichrists are in the generation of vipers, though.

Because they are the part of the same spiritual family (generation) that the Lord talked about! Because their father is Satan. Their end will come on the Last Day, not 70AD (as most preterists believe) because they want to build doctrine around physical destruction of Jewish temple, so they wanted to believe "this generation" must apply to Jews living in Christ's day.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Are you for real?

Yes, God's Truth is real.

Do you even understand what vipers the Lord talked about here? Do you think the vipers are only limited to the Jews of Christ's days? Yes or no?

Which is why the spirit of man, which is evil, cannot know the deep things of God. Because of this curse, it is "hidden" from him. His spirit is of the earth, earthly.

2nd Corinthians 4:4

• "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

Man is accursed and has become as a Serpent, a Viper, which is why Christ called them "exactly that" many times throughout scripture. Without Christ, man is the antichrist. It is to illustrate he has that spirit of an adversary. Because of that curse of God on the Serpent, unsaved man is spiritually a generation/family of serpents. Get it??

Matthew23:33

• "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"

They can't, and it is because of the curse for their disobedience. Christ was talking to the family of man, men under the curse as a family of Serpents. If I'm wrong, prove it with Scripture instead of saying if I am real.

The Lord obviously wasn't talking about the generation of His disciples, who lived at this same time and who would escape the damnation of hell. So then we must conclude that the "this generation" refers only to a certain segment of the living population at that time. The part that could not escape the damnation of Hell, not those who would. The part that was the children of the Devil, not the children of God. NOT coincidentally, the very word translated "generation" is [gennema], meaning offspring. There are two different generations or offspring. The generation of Christ and the generation of the Devil. One evil offspring was of the family responsible for the death of Able, and one stands before God without the stain of blood. The part who was responsible for the death of Abel thousands of years before is the generation or offspring of Satan. That is the only generation that cannot escape the damnation of Hell of which Christ spoke.

In conclusion, it is contextually accurate to consider the "this generation" statement Christ made, as pertaining to this generation of which Christ was speaking as vipers, which wasn't all the people who lived at that time--the way so many understand the word "generation" to mean those living in that era, and according to that context. The context is the sin of the offspring of vipers, who would be punished for it.

John 8:44

• "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

A murderer from the beginning, which is why "this generation" Christ said would be responsible for the blood of Abel, who was killed by his brother Cain. Selah. Because they were all of that generation or offspring of the devil. They are the fruit of the Devil.

 

[TribulationSigns]

LOL. I really hope he is not and is just an AI bot that someone put here to mess with us. It's hard to imagine that any real person could be like that.

AI bot?? LOL!!!! You are pathetic.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I am referring to the generation of evil—the generation of vipers, of which the Pharisees and Scribes are merely a part. This generation began with Cain, continued its course to the Cross, and will last until the Last Day, when everything will be fulfilled. Do you agree?

Yes, I do agree. I have clearly said multiple times now that even Cain is part of the generation of vipers because that generation (type of people) is identified by their rebellion against God and by the fact that they murder God's servants like Abel and Zechariah who are specifically mentioned in Matthew 23:35.

But, what I'm saying is that Jesus was prophesying about that part of the generation of vipers that had killed the prophets and those sent to preach the gospel to them, which were Jewish people like the Pharisees and scribes. He undeniably taught that their temple buildings were going to be destroyed (Matt 24:2, Mark 13:2, Luke 21:7) and that their city itself was going to be destroyed (Luke 19:41-44), so that fits with those other scriptures where He talked about that.

However, "this generation" in Matthew 24:34 has a different context from that. That is just talking about the Jewish people in general or about people in general passing away when heaven and earth pass away (Matt 24:35), which will be when Jesus returns unexpectedly as a thief in the night on the day and at the hour that only the Father knows (Matthew 24:35-39, 2 Peter 3:10-13).

This generation of evil did not end with the Pharisees and Scribes.

I'm not saying that it did, but I'm just saying that Jesus prophesied that unbelieving Jews who were part of the generation of vipers were going to be punished. An example was going to be made of them to show people that God does not take sin and rebellion lightly and that it will be punished. But, that will happen on a global scale when Jesus returns rather than just on the local scale when that happened in Jerusalem.

Just because Christ transferred the kingdom representative from the Jews of the Old Testament does not mean that "this generation" has come to a close.

Yep. I'm not saying that. But, we can't just ignore the prophecies that speak of God punishing the Jews and making an example of them while showing that He's not messing around when it comes to commanding people everywhere to repent or else (Acts 17:30-31).

Christ rebuilt the temple and entrusted the church with the kingdom representative. Therefore, this generation of evil has continued alongside the true chosen of the Church until all things are fulfilled. This is unrelated to the events of 70 AD.

Again, I don't deny that the generation of evil still exists today. I just think you're missing that part of that generation was destroyed and made an example of in 70 AD so that people can see how serious God takes sin and rebellion and that He will not just keep tolerating it forever and people will be punished for it.

The discussion is not specifically about the Jewish people in a physical sense, but rather about a spiritual family that includes both Jews and Gentiles. Let me ask you: when do you believe "this generation" ended?

Assuming you're referring to Matthew 24:34, it hasn't ended yet, but will pass away when heaven and earth pass away, which will occur when Jesus returns (Matthew 24:35-39, 2 Peter 3:10-12).

The generation of Matthew 24:34 is ALL unsaved people of the congregation that came against the True Chosen Generation. Not limited only to the unbelieving Jews of the Old Testament.

I am not saying that Matthew 24:34 has been fulfilled yet. I hope that is clear to you by now.

Yes, that WILL be when the generation of evil (or vipers) comes to an end!

Yes, that's right. Hello? Do you still think I'm wrong about everything? If so, then that would mean you are admitting to being wrong about some things, too, because it turns out that we actually agree on some things. LOL.

Races? LOL. No it speaks about the end of the spiritual family of Satan, regardless of races, and their destination is the Lake of Fire.

You laugh at what you don't understand, which is foolish. I was talking in terms of Jesus referring to the Jewish race as not passing away until "all these things" have been fulfilled, which includes the return of Christ and gathering of the elect (Matt 24:30-31). But, as I said, I could allow that He was talking about the human race in general there in terms of there no longer being any mortals on the earth as mortality will pass away at that point with immortality being put on by those who belong to Christ (1 Cor 15:50-54). Regardless of all that, we agree that Matthew 24:34 is not yet fulfilled and will be fulfilled when Jesus returns. I can be satisfied with agreeing about that, but I have my doubts that you will agree with that. Not that I care if you do or not.

What generation or family did you think I was talking about here, eh? When I talked about the vipers, I always talked about the generation of evil. Not the chosen generation! d

You are not always very clear in what you are saying, eh? So, you are differentiating between the generation of evil and the chosen generation in terms of unbelievers being in the generation of evil and believers being in the chosen generation. That wasn't clear in what you had said.

Like duh!

You really are a child. You can't deny it. Children talk like this.

There are no vipers in Christ's chosen generation/family. They are only found in "this generation" which Christ spoke of being EVIL.

Of course. But, you came across like you were saying something different than this. Don't blame me for your lack of clarity.

Get this fact through your thick skull first.

I already agree with that, numbskull. Trying being more clear next time.

Because they are the part of the same spiritual family (generation) that the Lord talked about! Because their father is Satan. Their end will come on the Last Day, not 70AD (as most preterists believe) because they want to build doctrine around physical destruction of Jewish temple, so they wanted to believe "this generation" must apply to Jews living in Christ's day.

You can believe both, you thick skulled person. You act like a person can only believe one or the other, which is total nonsense. Only part of "this generation" of vipers that existed since Cain was destroyed in 70 AD, not all of them. It was the part that God wanted to make an example out of because His Son was sent to them to save them and, for the most part, they rejected Him. So, they paid the price for that and now serve as an example to everyone what God does to those who reject His Son. In the future, all of the generation of evil throughout the world will pay the price when Jesus comes to take vengeance on them (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

AI bot?? LOL!!!! You are pathetic.

That's what your programmer programmed you to say. LOL!!!! How original.

 

[covenantee]

There are other Greek experts who disagree with him, so this means nothing to me. When you look at the various English translations, they occasionally translate verses quite differently, which shows that even the Greek experts who translated our English Bibles sometimes disagreed on the meaning of some verses in the original manuscripts.

Again, put your trust in the Holy Spirit, not James Strong. He did a great service by showing all the definitions of Greek words mean, but we don't need to rely on him to interpret scripture for us.

3. the whole multitude of men living at the same time: Matthew 24:34;

What recognized Greek expert disagrees with James Strong about that?

Is there evidence that James Strong did not put his trust in the Holy Spirit?

 

[TribulationSigns]

But, what I'm saying is that Jesus was prophesying about that part of the generation of vipers that had killed the prophets and those sent to preach the gospel to them, which were Jewish people like the Pharisees and scribes. He undeniably taught that their temple buildings were going to be destroyed (Matt 24:2, Mark 13:2, Luke 21:7) and that their city itself was going to be destroyed (Luke 19:41-44), so that fits with those other scriptures where He talked about that.

I disagree. You can't focus solely on that part of the generation and use the destruction of their physical temple in 70 AD as a basis. It was their spiritual temple and city that represented the Kingdom, which was affected at the Cross, not in 70 AD. The stones of the buildings symbolize people, not physical stones.

I'm not saying that it did, but I'm just saying that Jesus prophesied that unbelieving Jews who were part of the generation of vipers were going to be punished. An example was going to be made of them to show people that God does not take sin and rebellion lightly and that it will be punished. But, that will happen on a global scale when Jesus returns rather than just on the local scale when that happened in Jerusalem.

The punishment for unfaithfulness was when their temple fell and the veil rent and IN THREE DAYS CHRIST REBUILT THE TEMPLE. It occurred at the cross. Not 70AD. You have not shown me biblically how the temple was rebuilt in three days in 70AD as Christ prophesied.

Yep. I'm not saying that. But, we can't just ignore the prophecies that speak of God punishing the Jews and making an example of them while showing that He's not messing around when it comes to commanding people everywhere to repent or else (Acts 17:30-31).

Yeah, you insisted on the physical destruction of the city as a punishment for Jews in 70AD. Of course, it was not what Christ talked about. Sorry!

Again, I don't deny that the generation of evil still exists today. I just think you're missing that part of that generation was destroyed and made an example of in 70 AD so that people can see how serious God takes sin and rebellion and that He will not just keep tolerating it forever and people will be punished for it.

"Part of that generation" is not found in Scirpture.

Assuming you're referring to Matthew 24:34, it hasn't ended yet, but will pass away when heaven and earth pass away, which will occur when Jesus returns (Matthew 24:35-39, 2 Peter 3:10-12).

Yes.

Yes, that's right. Hello? Do you still think I'm wrong about everything? If so, then that would mean you are admitting to being wrong about some things, too, because it turns out that we actually agree on some things. LOL.

Really?

When did the abomination of desolation of Matthew 24:15 take place? Where will it stand at? Physical Jewish Temple, or New Testament congregation in the end time?

You laugh at what you don't understand, which is foolish. I was talking in terms of Jesus referring to the Jewish race as not passing away until "all these things" have been fulfilled, which includes the return of Christ and gathering of the elect (Matt 24:30-31). But, as I said, I could allow that He was talking about the human race in general there in terms of there no longer being any mortals on the earth as mortality will pass away at that point with immortality being put on by those who belong to Christ (1 Cor 15:50-54). Regardless of all that, we agree that Matthew 24:34 is not yet fulfilled and will be fulfilled when Jesus returns. I can be satisfied with agreeing about that, but I have my doubts that you will agree with that. Not that I care if you do or not.

Nothing to do with "Jewish race". It is about the spiritual family of Satan.

You are not always very clear in what you are saying, eh? So, you are differentiating between the generation of evil and the chosen generation in terms of unbelievers being in the generation of evil and believers being in the chosen generation. That wasn't clear in what you had said.

Obviously, I see that you failed to quote me what I said that you thought I was talking about chosen generation. It was not I who is the problem. It is you who was reading into what I wrote and assumed that I was talking about chosen generation.

You really are a child. You can't deny it. Children talk like this.

LOL.

Of course. But, you came across like you were saying something different than this. Don't blame me for your lack of clarity.

No it was your false accusation that you thought I was talking about vipers in Christ's generation. Where did I say this? Show me.

I already agree with that, numbskull. Trying being more clear next time.

Nope. You agreed, but still insisted on "part" of the generation crap.

Only part of "this generation" of vipers that existed since Cain was destroyed in 70 AD, not all of them.

Where did Christ said, "Part of this generation of vipers" was destroyed in 70AD. That is a private interpretation.

It was the part that God wanted to make an example out of because His Son was sent to them to save them and, for the most part, they rejected Him. So, they paid the price for that and now serve as an example to everyone what God does to those who reject His Son. In the future, all of the generation of evil throughout the world will pay the price when Jesus comes to take vengeance on them (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10).

Sigh....

Christ is "THEE" temple, which His people (builders) represented. They told them (the Jews - builders) to destroy this temple and in three days, he would rebuild it. So exactly when was THAT temple was destroyed and rebuild? How? Falling Physical stones or the unfaithful people of the Old Testament congregation? The New Testament congregation already started her commission at Pentecost. So why do you need to wait until 70AD to have physical temple destroyed? To punish the Jews of the first century, the part of the generation? LOL.

 

[covenantee]

Do you not recall that I showed you examples of that word being used to refer to something that was last talked about several verses earlier, such as in Romans 12:1, which uses the word "therefore" to refer back to what was being talked about up until Romans 11:32? So, I am not denying that the word refers back to something, but I believe in Matthew 24:15 it is referring back to verse 3 where the question regarding when the temple would be destroyed was asked.

There's certainly nothing restricting the connection to verse 15 being only verse 14; the "therefore" is in reality the culmination and climax of everything in the previous 14 verses. Jesus is saying in verse 15 that in light of everything that I'm predicting and informing and warning you of in the previous 14 verses, and whose fulfillments you will be seeing and experiencing, do not be surprised by the appearance of the abomination of desolation, i.e. the Roman armies, advancing on Jerusalem. It will be the next of the sorrows referred to in verse 8.

Verse 15's "therefore" does not therefore refer back to only verse 3 or verse 14.

It refers back to verses 1-14.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

3. the whole multitude of men living at the same time: Matthew 24:34;

What recognized Greek expert disagrees with James Strong about that?

William Hendriksen is one. He wrote the book "More than Conquerors" in which he does a great job of providing scriptural support for Amillennialism.

This is how he interpreted Matthew 24:34.

William Hendriksen, in his Exposition of the Gospel According to Matthew, interprets Matthew 24:34—“Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place”—as referring to the Jewish people, rather than to Jesus' contemporaries.

Hendriksen argues that the Greek term genea (translated as "generation") can denote a type or kind of people, not just a specific group alive at a particular time. He cites Old Testament passages such as Deuteronomy 32:5 and Psalm 12:7, where genea is used in a broader sense, and New Testament examples like Acts 2:40, Philippians 2:15, and Hebrews 3:10, where it refers to a wicked or perverse generation.

Hendriksen's interpretation aligns with a broader theological perspective that sees God's covenant with Israel as enduring and that the Jewish people will continue to exist until the fulfillment of God's promises.

G.K. Beale is another. This is how he interprets Matthew 24:34...

G.K. Beale, in his commentary on Matthew 24:34, interprets the phrase "this generation" (ἡ γενεὰ αὕτη) as referring to the Jewish people, rather than to Jesus' contemporaries. He suggests that "this generation" denotes the Jewish race, implying that the Jewish people will continue to exist until the fulfillment of all the events Jesus described, including the second coming and the gathering of the elect.

Beale interprets Matthew 24:34 as indicating that the Jewish people will remain until the fulfillment of all the events Jesus described, including the second coming and the gathering of the elect.

Herman Ridderbos is another. He argued that "this generation" in Matthew 24:34 refers to a specific type of person, namely those who are unbelieving and persecute the disciples of Christ.

I interpret "this generation" in Matthew 23:36 the way Ridderbos does, but I'm not sure that fits the context of Matthew 24:34 as it doesn't seem like Jesus was associating "this generation" particularly with the wicked there like He does in Matthew 23:36.

Anyway, none of these supposed experts that we're talking about, including James Strong, are NT authors, so their interpretations are fallible. So, the way to determine the truth is not to rely too much on these fallible men. Let's just focus on the scriptures and be like the Bereans and study the scriptures for ourselves to see if what these people claim is true or not. We don't have to be Greek experts to look up what the word "genea" means or to be able to discern the context of Matthew 24:34.

Is there evidence that James Strong did not put his trust in the Holy Spirit?

In the case of Matthew 24:34, yes, because by him, and those who agree with him like you, believing that Matthew 24:34 relates to what occurred in 70 AD, then it only follows that he (and you) must also believe that about Matthew 24:30-31 as well, but, somehow, he didn't.

I say that because it clearly indicates that "all these things" that would indicate that Jesus's second coming is near (Matthew 24:32-33) are the same "all these things" that had to be fulfilled first before this generation passes away. Yet, you try to say that Matthew 24:34 relates to 70 AD and Matthew 24:30-31 relates to His future second coming, which makes no sense to me. The context indicates that His second coming is what will result in this generation, and heaven and earth (Matt 24:35), passing away. Or, in other words, His second coming will occur at the same time that this generation passes away (along with heaven and earth).

Do you think that Matthew 24:32-33 is about things that would indicate that the destruction of Jerusalem is near rather than the second coming of Christ? If so, I don't understand that. What was the last thing that Jesus talked about before Matthew 24:32-33? His second coming and the gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:30-31. So, how can Matthew 24:32-34 not be about "all these things" that would occur before and up to His second coming?

 

[covenantee]

William Hendriksen is one. He wrote the book "More than Conquerors" in which he does a great job of providing scriptural support for Amillennialism.

This is how he interpreted Matthew 24:34.

William Hendriksen, in his Exposition of the Gospel According to Matthew, interprets Matthew 24:34—“Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place”—as referring to the Jewish people, rather than to Jesus' contemporaries.

Hendriksen argues that the Greek term genea (translated as "generation") can denote a type or kind of people, not just a specific group alive at a particular time. He cites Old Testament passages such as Deuteronomy 32:5 and Psalm 12:7, where genea is used in a broader sense, and New Testament examples like Acts 2:40, Philippians 2:15, and Hebrews 3:10, where it refers to a wicked or perverse generation.

Hendriksen's interpretation aligns with a broader theological perspective that sees God's covenant with Israel as enduring and that the Jewish people will continue to exist until the fulfillment of God's promises.

G.K. Beale is another. This is how he interprets Matthew 24:34...

G.K. Beale, in his commentary on Matthew 24:34, interprets the phrase "this generation" (ἡ γενεὰ αὕτη) as referring to the Jewish people, rather than to Jesus' contemporaries. He suggests that "this generation" denotes the Jewish race, implying that the Jewish people will continue to exist until the fulfillment of all the events Jesus described, including the second coming and the gathering of the elect.

Beale interprets Matthew 24:34 as indicating that the Jewish people will remain until the fulfillment of all the events Jesus described, including the second coming and the gathering of the elect.

Herman Ridderbos is another. He argued that "this generation" in Matthew 24:34 refers to a specific type of person, namely those who are unbelieving and persecute the disciples of Christ.

I interpret "this generation" in Matthew 23:36 the way Ridderbos does, but I'm not sure that fits the context of Matthew 24:34 as it doesn't seem like Jesus was associating "this generation" particularly with the wicked there like He does in Matthew 23:36.

Anyway, none of these supposed experts that we're talking about, including James Strong, are NT authors, so their interpretations are fallible. So, the way to determine the truth is not to rely too much on these fallible men. Let's just focus on the scriptures and be like the Bereans and study the scriptures for ourselves to see if what these people claim is true or not. We don't have to be Greek experts to look up what the word "genea" means or to be able to discern the context of Matthew 24:34.

I'm certain that none of them recognized genetic ubiquity, without which understanding the racialization of the associated Scriptures is nonsense.

 

[covenantee]

William Hendriksen is one. He wrote the book "More than Conquerors" in which he does a great job of providing scriptural support for Amillennialism.

This is how he interpreted Matthew 24:34.

William Hendriksen, in his Exposition of the Gospel According to Matthew, interprets Matthew 24:34—“Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place”—as referring to the Jewish people, rather than to Jesus' contemporaries.

Hendriksen argues that the Greek term genea (translated as "generation") can denote a type or kind of people, not just a specific group alive at a particular time. He cites Old Testament passages such as Deuteronomy 32:5 and Psalm 12:7, where genea is used in a broader sense, and New Testament examples like Acts 2:40, Philippians 2:15, and Hebrews 3:10, where it refers to a wicked or perverse generation.

Hendriksen's interpretation aligns with a broader theological perspective that sees God's covenant with Israel as enduring and that the Jewish people will continue to exist until the fulfillment of God's promises.

G.K. Beale is another. This is how he interprets Matthew 24:34...

G.K. Beale, in his commentary on Matthew 24:34, interprets the phrase "this generation" (ἡ γενεὰ αὕτη) as referring to the Jewish people, rather than to Jesus' contemporaries. He suggests that "this generation" denotes the Jewish race, implying that the Jewish people will continue to exist until the fulfillment of all the events Jesus described, including the second coming and the gathering of the elect.

Beale interprets Matthew 24:34 as indicating that the Jewish people will remain until the fulfillment of all the events Jesus described, including the second coming and the gathering of the elect.

Herman Ridderbos is another. He argued that "this generation" in Matthew 24:34 refers to a specific type of person, namely those who are unbelieving and persecute the disciples of Christ.

I interpret "this generation" in Matthew 23:36 the way Ridderbos does, but I'm not sure that fits the context of Matthew 24:34 as it doesn't seem like Jesus was associating "this generation" particularly with the wicked there like He does in Matthew 23:36.

Anyway, none of these supposed experts that we're talking about, including James Strong, are NT authors, so their interpretations are fallible. So, the way to determine the truth is not to rely too much on these fallible men. Let's just focus on the scriptures and be like the Bereans and study the scriptures for ourselves to see if what these people claim is true or not. We don't have to be Greek experts to look up what the word "genea" means or to be able to discern the context of Matthew 24:34

Additionally, unsurprisingly, those who racialize "generation" do so to perpetuate the modernist dispensational delusion.

I'm surprised that you would align with them.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I disagree. You can't focus solely on that part of the generation and use the destruction of their physical temple in 70 AD as a basis. It was their spiritual temple and city that represented the Kingdom, which was affected at the Cross, not in 70 AD. The stones of the buildings symbolize people, not physical stones.

Your interpretation of Matthew 24:1-2 (Mark 13:1-2, Luke 21:6-7) is nothing less than a total joke. The disciples specifically were pointing to the temple buildings standing at that time and Jesus said those buildings would be destroyed with no stone left upon another. You think it's talking about people being symbolically destroyed with no stone left upon another? LOL. What does that even mean?

The punishment for unfaithfulness was when their temple fell and the veil rent and IN THREE DAYS CHRIST REBUILT THE TEMPLE. It occurred at the cross. Not 70AD. You have not shown me biblically how the temple was rebuilt in three days in 70AD as Christ prophesied.

For goodness sakes, you are trying to relate totally unrelated scriptures, which is a complete joke. What you are referencing about Christ's body is not part of the Olivet Discourse.

Yeah, you insisted on the physical destruction of the city as a punishment for Jews in 70AD. Of course, it was not what Christ talked about. Sorry!

Yes, it was. Sorry, Charlie!

"Part of that generation" is not found in Scirpture.

You don't even try to understand what I'm saying. While "this generation" of evil vipers who murdered innocent servants of God existed since Cain killed Abel (Matthew 23:35-36), Jesus was focused particularly in Matthew 23 on the part of "this generation" He was talking to and about who killed the prophets and those who came to preach to them, which was the unbelieving Jews. It was them in particular that He said would be destroyed. In the very next verses after those He rendered the temple to be spiritually desolate to them (Matt 23:37-38) which was a sign that it would also be made physically desolate later.

Really?

Yes, really. Do we not agree that Matthew 24:30-31 refers to the future second coming of Christ and that Matthew 24:34 will be fulfilled at that time? Yes, we do. And we agree that Matthew 24:4-14 relates to the second coming and Matthew 24:23-25:46 as well.

When did the abomination of desolation of Matthew 24:15 take place? Where will it stand at? Physical Jewish Temple, or New Testament congregation in the end time?

You already know how I interpret that, so why are you asking me this? The Jews and Roman armies both committed abominations in and around the temple standing at that time such as murder, sexually perverted activities, idol worship, worshiping false gods and other abominable things. It was all a collective abomination in God's eyes because people were desecrating the place that was meant to be holy and a place where only God's people were supposed to be.

Nothing to do with "Jewish race". It is about the spiritual family of Satan.

I don't care if you want to interpret it that way. That doesn't make a difference in terms of when that will be fulfilled. It is a generation that will pass away when Jesus returns. The Jewish race will pass away at that time, but "the spiritual family of Satan" will pass away at that time as well.

Obviously, I see that you failed to quote me what I said that you thought I was talking about chosen generation. It was not I who is the problem. It is you who was reading into what I wrote and assumed that I was talking about chosen generation.

You said this:

Like you, so many people are understanding generation to refer to a particular group of people living at one particular time, when generally God is referring to a spiritual family or children. People of the generation of vipers, and those of the generation of Christ, meaning His children/family! Do you realize that today, the antichrists, are part of the generation of vipers too?

The topic was "this generation". So, that's what I thought you were talking about here. Only one generation, "this generation" was being discussed. So, I didn't know you were talking about two different generations of people here, which made me think you were including the "generation of vipers" and "generation of Christ" as all part of "His children/family" as "this generation".

So, when it comes to what was actually being discussed, which was "this generation", what are you saying that represents? Just the generation of vipers, right? If so, you should have just talked about that, so I would know exactly what you were saying "this generation" represents.

LOL.

A clear admission that you know I'm right. Children say things like "Like duh" and you know that. You are very difficult to take seriously sometimes.

No it was your false accusation that you thought I was talking about vipers in Christ's generation. Where did I say this? Show me.

LOL. You're acting like I was purposely making a false accusation. No. I explained above why I didn't catch what you were saying. We were only talking about one generation, which is "this generation", but then you talked about two generations instead, so I misunderstood you because of that.

Nope. You agreed, but still insisted on "part" of the generation crap.

I explained what that means. Who was He focused on in Matthew 23? The unbelieving Jews like the Pharisees and scribes, right? And they were part of "this generation", right? But, they were not the only ones in "this generation", right? We know that "this generation" existed since Cain, so it includes all who fit the description of being vipers, hypocrites and those who murder innocent servants of God. But, Jesus was speaking particularly of punishment that was going to come up on Jerusalem in Matthew 23. So, He wasn't talking about all of "this generation" (all who fit the description of this generation since Cain), but about the unbelieving Jews in "this generation" in particular.

Sigh...2

My thoughts exactly.

Christ is "THEE" temple, which His people (builders) represented. They told them (the Jews - builders) to destroy this temple and in three days, he would rebuild it. So exactly when was THAT temple was destroyed and rebuild? How? Falling Physical stones or the unfaithful people of the Old Testament congregation? The New Testament congregation already started her commission at Pentecost. So why do you need to wait until 70AD to have physical temple destroyed? To punish the Jews of the first century, the part of the generation? LOL.

LOL. Why in the world can't there be scripture about BOTH the destruction of Jesus's body as the temple AND about the physical temple buildings standing at that time? John 2:18-21 is NOT part of the Olivet Discourse, so why do you try to make it so?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Additionally, unsurprisingly, those who racialize "generation" do so to perpetuate the modernist dispensational delusion.

I'm surprised that you would align with them.

Don't give me this nonsense. I said it could relate to the human race (mortals) in particular as well. Either way, it's clear to me that "this generation" will pass away when Jesus returns.

I'm surprised that you would align with the preterist delusion that was originated by full preterist heretics that Matthew 24:34 does not refer to "all these things" that would indicate that the second coming of Christ was near, which would also indicate that the passing away of "this generation" and "heaven and earth" was near.

How do you reconcile not including "all these things" that would lead up to the second coming of Christ and gathering of the elect among all these things that needed to be fulfilled before this generation and heaven and earth passed away?