SDAs, USA and the End times.
- Thread starter Josho
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
PS95
Well-Known Member
PS95
Well-Known Member
Read what it says.
9There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 10For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same pattern of disobedience.
That's how we are to rest now.
Our command is love. Love doesn't steal or lie to someone etc.........
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Valid question - Thank You
Infallible Answer - When we place our salvation in CHRIST we fulfill the REST of God.
When we attempt to please God by resting on Saturday we devalue God's REST for we elevate Saturday above CHRIST.
Saturday rest becomes essential for salvation(SDA belief) = works based religion that has been voided by God.
All other commandments pertain to the heart of God whereby HE is the Both the giver of the OT law and the Rescinder of it because a GREATER Law has been established = the NEW Covenant = the Law of Christ
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Also, i am not and will not ever tell you to stop worshipping God on Saturday.
But God is telling you that that day of the week is fulfilled in CHRIST - Read/Study/Pray Gospel of John, Acts and Hebrews
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Boy, you step away for a week or two and you can miss a lot. (Other times, not so much.)
Not sure how much expansion you want, but:
America was raised up by God to receive the flood of immigrants escaping religious persecution by Rome and, by extension, her daughters throughout Europe.
Doubtless, folks will nitpick and refute, by various anomalies, the veracity of this fact.
But one need only look to the revolutions in France and Russia to see the results of ecclesiastical overreach.
It even reared its ugly head here and likely would have been worse had God not raised up men like Roger Williams to combat the scourge of church-state unions here as well.
When God's hand seemed to point the Puritans across the sea to a land where they could establish a government for themselves and leave their children the heritage of religious liberty, they went forward in the path where God was leading. Persecution and exile were opening the way to freedom.
When they first had to separate from the English Church, the Puritans made a covenant as the Lord's free people “to walk together in all His ways made known or to be made known to them.” This was the vital principle of Protestantism. With this intent the Pilgrims left Holland to find a home in the New World. John Robinson, their pastor, said this in his farewell address to the exiles:
“I charge you before God and His blessed angels to follow me no farther than I have followed Christ. If God should reveal anything to you by any other instrument of His, be as ready to receive it as you ever were to receive any truth from my ministry; for I am very confident the Lord has more truth and light yet to break forth out of His holy word.”
“For my part, I cannot feel worse over the condition of the reformed churches, who ... now will go no farther than those who brought reformation to them. The Lutherans cannot be drawn to go beyond what Luther saw; ... and the Calvinists, you see, stay right where they were left by that great man of God, who did not yet see all things.... Though these leaders were burning and shining lights in their time, yet they did not understand the whole counsel of God, but if they were living now, they would be as willing to embrace further light as the light they first received.”
“Remember your promise and covenant with God and with one another, to receive whatever light and truth shall come to you from His written word. But along with this, be careful, I beg you, about what you accept as truth, and compare it and weigh it with other scriptures of truth before you accept it, for it is not possible the Christian world would come so recently out of such thick anti-Christian darkness, and that full perfection of knowledge would suddenly be there.”
The desire for freedom of conscience inspired the Pilgrims to cross the sea, endure the hardships of the wilderness, and lay the foundation of a mighty nation. Yet the Pilgrims did not yet understand the principle of religious liberty. The freedom that they sacrificed so much to get for themselves, they were not ready to give to others. The doctrine that God has given the church the right to control the conscience and to define and punish heresy is one of the papacy's most deeply rooted errors. The Reformers were not entirely free from Rome's spirit of intolerance. The dense darkness that had enveloped Christendom had not completely vanished yet.
The colonists formed a kind of state church and authorized the government officials to suppress heresy. So secular power was in the hands of the church. This led to the inevitable result—persecution.
Like the early Pilgrims, Roger Williams came to the New World for its religious freedom. But, unlike them, he saw what so few had yet seen—that this freedom was the absolute right of everyone. He was a devoted seeker for truth. Williams “was the first person in modern Christendom to establish civil government based on the doctrine of the liberty of conscience.” “The public or the government officials may decide,” he said, “our responsibilities to each other. But when they try to decree anyone's duties to God, they are out of place, and no one is safe, for it is clear that if the official had the power, he could decree one set of opinions or beliefs today and another tomorrow. This has been done in England by different kings and queens, and by different popes and councils in the Roman Church.”
People were required to attend the established church under penalty of fine or imprisonment. Roger Williams believed that “to compel anyone to unite with those who believed differently was an open violation of that person's natural rights. To drag the irreligious and the unwilling to public worship seemed like simply requiring them to be hypocrites.... ‘No one should be forced to worship, or,’ he added, ‘to support any kind of worship against his own will.’”
People respected Roger Williams, yet they could not tolerate his demand for religious liberty. To avoid arrest he was forced to escape into the uninhabited forest during the cold and storms of winter.
“For fourteen weeks,” he says, “I was in serious trouble in the bitter weather, without food or a bed.” But “the ravens fed me in the wilderness,” and a hollow tree often provided a shelter. He continued his painful escape through snow and trackless forest until he found safety with an Indian tribe whose confidence and affection he had won.
Roger Williams laid the foundation of the first modern state to recognize the right “that all people should have liberty to worship God according to the light of their own consciences.” His little state, Rhode Island, increased and prospered until its foundation principles—civil and religious liberty—became the cornerstones of the American Republic.
To be cont'd...
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Cont'd...
The American Declaration of Independence stated, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” The Constitution guarantees that the government may not violate a person's conscience: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”
“The framers of the Constitution recognized the eternal principle that a person's relationship to God is above human legislation, and the rights of conscience are not to be violated.... It is an inborn principle that nothing can eradicate.”
The news spread through Europe about a land where all could enjoy the fruits of their own labors and obey their own consciences. Thousands flocked to the shores of the New World. Within twenty years of the first landing at Plymouth (1620), twenty thousand Pilgrims had settled in New England.
“They asked nothing from the soil but the reasonable returns of their own labor.... They patiently endured the hardships of the wilderness, watering the tree of liberty with their tears and with the sweat of their brow, till it took deep root in the land.”
The home, school, and church all taught Bible principles. The Bible's fruits showed clearly in thrift, intelligence, purity, and temperance. For years one might “not see a drunkard, or hear a swear word, or meet a beggar.” Bible principles are what most surely protect a nation's greatness. The feeble colonies grew into powerful states, and the world noticed the prosperity of “a church without a pope, and a state without a king.”
But increasing numbers of people were attracted to America by motives different from those of the Pilgrims. These were people who were looking only for worldly advantage.
The early colonists permitted only members of the church to vote or to hold office in the government. They accepted this measure to preserve the purity of the state. It resulted, however, in corrupting the church. Many people joined the church without a change of heart. Even in the ministry there were people who knew nothing of the renewing power of the Holy Spirit. From the days of Constantine to the present, while attempting to build up the church by the aid of the state may appear to bring the world nearer to the church, in reality it brings the church nearer to the world.
The Protestant churches of America, and those in Europe as well, failed to push forward in the path of reform. The majority, like the Jews in Christ's day or the Catholics in the time of Luther, were content to believe as their ancestors had believed. They kept their errors and superstitions. The Reformation gradually died out, until there was almost as great a need for reform in the Protestant churches as in the Roman Church in the time of Luther. The Protestant churches had the same reverence for human opinions and substitution of human theories for God's Word. People neglected to search the Scriptures, and so they continued to cling to doctrines that had no foundation in the Bible.
Pride and extravagance were encouraged under the appearance of religion, and the churches became corrupted. Traditions that would ruin millions were taking deep root. The church was upholding these traditions instead of contending earnestly for “the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.”
This is how the principles for which the Reformers had suffered so much were eroded.
For right or wrong, God has blessed America and has seen fit to preserve her influence and might, despite our spiritual exodus from Him.
And this is no wonder, since the Bible itself speaks of America in figurative language, so that every man can be convinced in his own mind.
Last edited:
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
The only link that is really necessary is that the Pope, no matter which iteration of personawe're dealing with, is the head of a sovereign nation we recognize with diplomatic ties and, still more, just happens to be the visible head of a religious body, of which roughly 50 million of its adult adherents reside here, with possibly 10 times as many more spread throughout the world.
When the "time of trouble that was not since there was a nation" comes upon the earth, folks are going to be looking to experts for answers about how to appease the God we've so apparently angered, just like they did 5 years ago, and medical doctors and traditional politicians will be out of the running.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
"The Protestant churches of America, and those in Europe as well, failed to push forward in the path of reform. The majority, like the Jews in Christ's day or the Catholics in the time of Luther, were content to believe as their ancestors had believed. They kept their errors and superstitions. The Reformation gradually died out, until there was almost as great a need for reform in the Protestant churches as in the Roman Church in the time of Luther. The Protestant churches had the same reverence for human opinions and substitution of human theories for God's Word. People neglected to search the Scriptures, and so they continued to cling to doctrines that had no foundation in the Bible."Cont'd...
The American Declaration of Independence stated, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” The Constitution guarantees that the government may not violate a person's conscience: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”
“The framers of the Constitution recognized the eternal principle that a person's relationship to God is above human legislation, and the rights of conscience are not to be violated.... It is an inborn principle that nothing can eradicate.”
The news spread through Europe about a land where all could enjoy the fruits of their own labors and obey their own consciences. Thousands flocked to the shores of the New World. Within twenty years of the first landing at Plymouth (1620), twenty thousand Pilgrims had settled in New England.
“They asked nothing from the soil but the reasonable returns of their own labor.... They patiently endured the hardships of the wilderness, watering the tree of liberty with their tears and with the sweat of their brow, till it took deep root in the land.”
The home, school, and church all taught Bible principles. The Bible's fruits showed clearly in thrift, intelligence, purity, and temperance. For years one might “not see a drunkard, or hear a swear word, or meet a beggar.” Bible principles are what most surely protect a nation's greatness. The feeble colonies grew into powerful states, and the world noticed the prosperity of “a church without a pope, and a state without a king.”
But increasing numbers of people were attracted to America by motives different from those of the Pilgrims. These were people who were looking only for worldly advantage.
The early colonists permitted only members of the church to vote or to hold office in the government. They accepted this measure to preserve the purity of the state. It resulted, however, in corrupting the church. Many people joined the church without a change of heart. Even in the ministry there were people who knew nothing of the renewing power of the Holy Spirit. From the days of Constantine to the present, while attempting to build up the church by the aid of the state may appear to bring the world nearer to the church, in reality it brings the church nearer to the world.
The Protestant churches of America, and those in Europe as well, failed to push forward in the path of reform. The majority, like the Jews in Christ's day or the Catholics in the time of Luther, were content to believe as their ancestors had believed. They kept their errors and superstitions. The Reformation gradually died out, until there was almost as great a need for reform in the Protestant churches as in the Roman Church in the time of Luther. The Protestant churches had the same reverence for human opinions and substitution of human theories for God's Word. People neglected to search the Scriptures, and so they continued to cling to doctrines that had no foundation in the Bible.
Pride and extravagance were encouraged under the appearance of religion, and the churches became corrupted. Traditions that would ruin millions were taking deep root. The church was upholding these traditions instead of contending earnestly for “the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.”
This is how the principles for which the Reformers had suffered so much were eroded.
For right or wrong, God has blessed America and has seen fit to preserve her influence and might, despite our spiritual exodus from Him.
And this is no wonder, since the Bible itself speaks of America in figurative language, so that every man can be convinced in his own mind.
We can safely include the SDA in here as well for all denominations have dug in their heels and hardened their hearts against any voice of the Holy Spirit that calls for a return to the Holy Scriptures over men.
Cont'd...
The American Declaration of Independence stated, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” The Constitution guarantees that the government may not violate a person's conscience: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”
“The framers of the Constitution recognized the eternal principle that a person's relationship to God is above human legislation, and the rights of conscience are not to be violated.... It is an inborn principle that nothing can eradicate.”
The news spread through Europe about a land where all could enjoy the fruits of their own labors and obey their own consciences. Thousands flocked to the shores of the New World. Within twenty years of the first landing at Plymouth (1620), twenty thousand Pilgrims had settled in New England.
“They asked nothing from the soil but the reasonable returns of their own labor.... They patiently endured the hardships of the wilderness, watering the tree of liberty with their tears and with the sweat of their brow, till it took deep root in the land.”
The home, school, and church all taught Bible principles. The Bible's fruits showed clearly in thrift, intelligence, purity, and temperance. For years one might “not see a drunkard, or hear a swear word, or meet a beggar.” Bible principles are what most surely protect a nation's greatness. The feeble colonies grew into powerful states, and the world noticed the prosperity of “a church without a pope, and a state without a king.”
But increasing numbers of people were attracted to America by motives different from those of the Pilgrims. These were people who were looking only for worldly advantage.
The early colonists permitted only members of the church to vote or to hold office in the government. They accepted this measure to preserve the purity of the state. It resulted, however, in corrupting the church. Many people joined the church without a change of heart. Even in the ministry there were people who knew nothing of the renewing power of the Holy Spirit. From the days of Constantine to the present, while attempting to build up the church by the aid of the state may appear to bring the world nearer to the church, in reality it brings the church nearer to the world.
The Protestant churches of America, and those in Europe as well, failed to push forward in the path of reform. The majority, like the Jews in Christ's day or the Catholics in the time of Luther, were content to believe as their ancestors had believed. They kept their errors and superstitions. The Reformation gradually died out, until there was almost as great a need for reform in the Protestant churches as in the Roman Church in the time of Luther. The Protestant churches had the same reverence for human opinions and substitution of human theories for God's Word. People neglected to search the Scriptures, and so they continued to cling to doctrines that had no foundation in the Bible.
Pride and extravagance were encouraged under the appearance of religion, and the churches became corrupted. Traditions that would ruin millions were taking deep root. The church was upholding these traditions instead of contending earnestly for “the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.”
This is how the principles for which the Reformers had suffered so much were eroded.
For right or wrong, God has blessed America and has seen fit to preserve her influence and might, despite our spiritual exodus from Him.
And this is no wonder, since the Bible itself speaks of America in figurative language, so that every man can be convinced in his own mind.
Very interesting thanks for sharing, so this is basically USA's Christian history? So much has changed since they settled there.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Infallible? Goodness gracious me... You are the new pope now? Aside from that, your wording appears to me to be a little abstract,like you are attempting to kill two birds with one stone but falling short. Yes, we have peace and rest with God as we place our trust in Christ. That doesn't negate any commandment though does it.
I find it curious that you would quote Roman's 8 in support of your negating of a commandment by saying that it is futile in pleasing God through obedience to it, particularly when in context, Paul is stating that one cannot please God and be out of harmony with the law at the same time.
“7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. ”
Romans 8:7-8 KJV
Obedience to God's commandments has always been essential for salvation. Not as a means by which salvation is attained, but certainly a standard of living in order ultimately to be in God's kingdom. To claim otherwise is to believe disobedience is an acceptable criteria for salvation. But that is not the issue. The issue is how we come to a receive the mindset necessary to be in harmony with the law. And that is by faith, receiving the mind of Christ. If we have the mind of Christ, we are filled with His Spirit, His love, His righteousness. So obedience doesn't come by our own effort, it is imputed by faith, and imparted by faith through the process of sanctification. But the result is the same. "Love is the fulfilling of the law"... Which proves the law hasn't been annulled or voided, but the means by which the law is kept is changed. Righteousness by faith. We know God's standard. He wrote it in stone. We know that we are so weak and our hearts so corrupt, that to reach that standard in our own strength is utterly futile. Yet that's precisely where God wants us: it's precisely where we need to be in order to live in harmony not only with the law, but with angels and other residents in paradise. How to get there? By believing that God will do it in us in His strength. By His grace. By His power.
In your one short sentence above, you have promoted the idea that to obey the law is always a works based method to being saved, and a standard method of a particular church, which God had voided. Surely you aren't suggesting that there was a time when people attained salvation through the law??
As to your mention of the Sabbath and our church. Right now, not everyone knows the importance and relevance of Sabbath keeping. They don't appreciate God's love for His holy day, and the honour and sacredness He has invested in it. But those that do know, but are resisting the Sabbath despite having light regarding it, may be in trouble seeing they are willfully disobeying a Commandment they understand to be holy. "To him that knows to do good, but does it not, to him it is sin".
Just a random thought I can't recall a Christian song about Saturday morning, but there are definitely a number out there mentioning Sunday morning.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Infallible? Goodness gracious me... You are the new pope now? Aside from that, your wording appears to me to be a little abstract,like you are attempting to kill two birds with one stone but falling short. Yes, we have peace and rest with God as we place our trust in Christ. That doesn't negate any commandment though does it.
I find it curious that you would quote Roman's 8 in support of your negating of a commandment by saying that it is futile in pleasing God through obedience to it, particularly when in context, Paul is stating that one cannot please God and be out of harmony with the law at the same time.
“7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. ”
Romans 8:7-8 KJV
Seems to me that in order to truly please God, one must be in harmony with the law.
Obedience to God's commandments has always been essential for salvation. Not as a means by which salvation is attained, but certainly a standard of living in order ultimately to be in God's kingdom. To claim otherwise is to believe disobedience is an acceptable criteria for salvation. But that is not the issue. The issue is how we come to a receive the mindset necessary to be in harmony with the law. And that is by faith, receiving the mind of Christ. If we have the mind of Christ, we are filled with His Spirit, His love, His righteousness. So obedience doesn't come by our own effort, it is imputed by faith, and imparted by faith through the process of sanctification. But the result is the same. "Love is the fulfilling of the law"... Which proves the law hasn't been annulled or voided, but the means by which the law is kept is changed. Righteousness by faith. We know God's standard. He wrote it in stone. We know that we are so weak and our hearts so corrupt, that to reach that standard in our own strength is utterly futile. Yet that's precisely where God wants us: it's precisely where we need to be in order to live in harmony not only with the law, but with angels and other residents in paradise. How to get there? By believing that God will do it in us in His strength. By His grace. By His power.
In your one short sentence above, you have promoted the idea that to obey the law is always a works based method to being saved, and a standard method of a particular church, which God had voided. Surely you aren't suggesting that there was a time when people attained salvation through the law??
As to your mention of the Sabbath and our church. Right now, not everyone knows the importance and relevance of Sabbath keeping. They don't appreciate God's love for His holy day, and the honour and sacredness He has invested in it. But those that do know, but are resisting the Sabbath despite having light regarding it, may be in trouble seeing they are willfully disobeying a Commandment they understand to be holy. "To him that knows to do good, but does it not, to him it is sin".
@Brakelite - got a good laugh from this - BIG THANK YOU
If Salvation/REST is only thru the Lord Jesus Christ then there is no other Way.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Infallible? Goodness gracious me... You are the new pope now? Aside from that, your wording appears to me to be a little abstract,like you are attempting to kill two birds with one stone but falling short. Yes, we have peace and rest with God as we place our trust in Christ. That doesn't negate any commandment though does it.
I find it curious that you would quote Roman's 8 in support of your negating of a commandment by saying that it is futile in pleasing God through obedience to it, particularly when in context, Paul is stating that one cannot please God and be out of harmony with the law at the same time.
“7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. ”
Romans 8:7-8 KJV
Seems to me that in order to truly please God, one must be in harmony with the law.
Obedience to God's commandments has always been essential for salvation. Not as a means by which salvation is attained, but certainly a standard of living in order ultimately to be in God's kingdom. To claim otherwise is to believe disobedience is an acceptable criteria for salvation. But that is not the issue. The issue is how we come to a receive the mindset necessary to be in harmony with the law. And that is by faith, receiving the mind of Christ. If we have the mind of Christ, we are filled with His Spirit, His love, His righteousness. So obedience doesn't come by our own effort, it is imputed by faith, and imparted by faith through the process of sanctification. But the result is the same. "Love is the fulfilling of the law"... Which proves the law hasn't been annulled or voided, but the means by which the law is kept is changed. Righteousness by faith. We know God's standard. He wrote it in stone. We know that we are so weak and our hearts so corrupt, that to reach that standard in our own strength is utterly futile. Yet that's precisely where God wants us: it's precisely where we need to be in order to live in harmony not only with the law, but with angels and other residents in paradise. How to get there? By believing that God will do it in us in His strength. By His grace. By His power.
In your one short sentence above, you have promoted the idea that to obey the law is always a works based method to being saved, and a standard method of a particular church, which God had voided. Surely you aren't suggesting that there was a time when people attained salvation through the law??
As to your mention of the Sabbath and our church. Right now, not everyone knows the importance and relevance of Sabbath keeping. They don't appreciate God's love for His holy day, and the honour and sacredness He has invested in it. But those that do know, but are resisting the Sabbath despite having light regarding it, may be in trouble seeing they are willfully disobeying a Commandment they understand to be holy. "To him that knows to do good, but does it not, to him it is sin".
The spiritual sabbath argument that is gaining so much ground is really akin to saying it's okay to actually kill someone as long as you don't harbor anger against them without cause. Trouble is, there's no Sabbath iteration of "You have heard it said..., but I tell you..." in The Sermon On The Mount and isn't that peculiar?
People seem to cling tenaciously to their objections to a literal, weekly period of rest prescribed and even enjoined by the 4th commandment so much so, in fact, that they'll accuse adherents of actually cherishing cognitive dissonance by working themselves into God's favor and redemption by resting and worshipping.
It's much more bewildering to me than the Saturday vs. Sunday struggle that used to take place so commonly and was really the only popular argument until folks started gathering on the Internet and the world became a 24/7, drive-thru dispenser of all things human—sleep, work, eat, worship, etc.
They'll even pick apart your Sabbath practice in a way they would never dare to have done to a conscientious Sunday-keeper just a decade or two ago, while they're accusing you of being an... well, accuser of the brethren. I acknowledge their right to do so but, again, the logic escapes me entirely.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
WOW @BarneyFife, you are doing the SAME with Saturday as the Vatican does with Sunday.
Making a day of the earthbound calendar more important then the Creator Himself
Hebrews ch4 = Today, if you will hear His Voice, do not harden your hearts........
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
My pleasure—I'm not like the government; I'm here to help. ;-)
Well, not comprehensive history but perhaps notable in the context of this discussion.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
It is commonly argued by non-sabbatarians that those of us who do observe the Sabbath are doing so because we have resorted to a works based paradigm in order to be saved. They then cite Galatians in support of their accusations...and accusation it is. "We have fallen from grace". In conjunction with this they say we have gone back to living under the old covenant. That we need to come back to Christ in the NT/covenant, and keep the "law of Christ". In response to this, I say poppycock. They don't read the scriptures.
Let me remind everyone reading this on a couple of points.
A. None of you are keeping the commandments so long as you ignore the 4th. That's the bottom line truth.
“10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. ”
James 2:10-11 KJV
Unfeigned Bible
There is no reason to assume/presume that the Sabbath commandment is excluded from "the whole law" which in context, is the Ten Commandments.
B. Whatever of the commandments you do keep of the other 9, you do so by the grace and power of God.
C. Israel, under the old covenant, was saved by grace through faith. Even at their peak in obedience to all the commandments of Moses law and/or Ten Commandments, if they were saved at all, it was by faith in the blood of the Lamb. Their obedience never sav toed them. Ever. Thus the old covenant was never based on law, the new on grace. It's always been grace. Always.
The following applies to the NT every much as it did to the Israel of Ezekiel's time...
“23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. ”
Ezekiel 36:23-27 KJV
Seventh Day Adventists believe righteousness comes by faith in the promises of God. Willing obedience to the 4th commandment comes by faith and submission to the authority of God's word. Which all protestants claim, but only a few live by.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Good Morning @Brakelite,It is commonly argued by non-sabbatarians that those of us who do observe the Sabbath are doing so because we have resorted to a works based paradigm in order to be saved. They then cite Galatians in support of their accusations...and accusation it is. "We have fallen from grace". In conjunction with this they say we have gone back to living under the old covenant. That we need to come back to Christ in the NT/covenant, and keep the "law of Christ". In response to this, I say poppycock. They don't read the scriptures.
Let me remind everyone reading this on a couple of points.
A. None of you are keeping the commandments so long as you ignore the 4th. That's the bottom line truth.
“10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. ”
James 2:10-11 KJV
Unfeigned Bible
There is no reason to assume/presume that the Sabbath commandment is excluded from "the whole law" which in context, is the Ten Commandments.
B. Whatever of the commandments you do keep of the other 9, you do so by the grace and power of God.
C. Israel, under the old covenant, was saved by grace through faith. Even at their peak in obedience to all the commandments of Moses law and/or Ten Commandments, if they were saved at all, it was by faith in the blood of the Lamb. Their obedience never sav toed them. Ever. Thus the old covenant was never based on law, the new on grace. It's always been grace. Always.
The following applies to the NT every much as it did to the Israel of Ezekiel's time...
“23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. ”
Ezekiel 36:23-27 KJV
Seventh Day Adventists believe righteousness comes by faith in the promises of God. Willing obedience to the 4th commandment comes by faith and submission to the authority of God's word. Which all protestants claim, but only a few live by.
Thank you for the FYI
Here are the ABC's of sabbath rest
You gave me a good chuckle with "non-sabbatarians"
My question would be, is this me or you?
Because MESSIAH is my Sabbath REST.
What we have here is this:
a.) saturday sabbatarians = comes with a death penalty for working on saturday = Exodus 31:15
B.) Sabbatarians who follow the LORD of the sabbath = God's REST = 7th Day FULFILLED = Gospel/Acts/Hebrews
c.) sunday sabbatarians
a.) saturday sabbatarians claim to be the true church because of saturday = death penalty for working = Exodus 31:15
B.) MESSIAH is our REST Sabbatarians = Living Stones Church Built by MESSIAH
c.) sunday sabbatarians
B.) At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat.
a.) saturday sabbatarians say: Matt 12:2
And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath!”
@Brakelite, how does SDA approach this = Isaiah 58:13
“If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on My holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the LORD’s holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,
Always know that i enjoy conversing with you and love you in the Eternal Sabbath REST of God = YHWH
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
It is commonly argued by non-sabbatarians that those of us who do observe the Sabbath are doing so because we have resorted to a works based paradigm in order to be saved. They then cite Galatians in support of their accusations...and accusation it is. "We have fallen from grace". In conjunction with this they say we have gone back to living under the old covenant. That we need to come back to Christ in the NT/covenant, and keep the "law of Christ". In response to this, I say poppycock. They don't read the scriptures.
Let me remind everyone reading this on a couple of points.
A. None of you are keeping the commandments so long as you ignore the 4th. That's the bottom line truth.
“10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. ”
James 2:10-11 KJV
Unfeigned Bible
There is no reason to assume/presume that the Sabbath commandment is excluded from "the whole law" which in context, is the Ten Commandments.
B. Whatever of the commandments you do keep of the other 9, you do so by the grace and power of God.
C. Israel, under the old covenant, was saved by grace through faith. Even at their peak in obedience to all the commandments of Moses law and/or Ten Commandments, if they were saved at all, it was by faith in the blood of the Lamb. Their obedience never sav toed them. Ever. Thus the old covenant was never based on law, the new on grace. It's always been grace. Always.
The following applies to the NT every much as it did to the Israel of Ezekiel's time...
“23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. ”
Ezekiel 36:23-27 KJV
Seventh Day Adventists believe righteousness comes by faith in the promises of God. Willing obedience to the 4th commandment comes by faith and submission to the authority of God's word. Which all protestants claim, but only a few live by.
It's incredibly telling that no one will accuse you of "falling from grace" if you start a thread about the evils of paganism, idolatry, profanity, abuse of parents, murder, theft, adultery, false witness, or covetousness.
I've done the experiment right here. You get to the 4th commandment: No more AMENs. You're a legalistic, judgmental heretic, and the C-word starts flying like feathers in a frenzied hen house.
And 30 years ago, if you'd done the same thing without mentioning which day of the week you were talking about, it would've been totally different.
No one really objects to the ten commandments—except for the 4th—unless, of course, they've adopted the new spiritual Sabbath theory.
Post-Internet, 24/7/365, eat/sleep/work/rest/worship all when you can find the time. We're completely disoriented. Our circadian and circaseptan rhythms are all out of whack. If you bring this up, you're seen by most as the proverbial old man yelling at the clouds or worse.
Sorry for the rant, @Josho
.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Are you able to fulfill the 10 Commandments???It's incredibly telling that no one will accuse you of "falling from grace" if you start a thread about the evils of paganism, idolatry, profanity, abuse of parents, murder, theft, adultery, false witness, or covetousness.
I've done the experiment right here. You get to the 4th commandment: No more AMENs. You're a legalistic, judgmental heretic, and the C-word starts flying like feathers in a frenzied hen house.
And 30 years ago, if you'd done the same thing without mentioning which day of the week you were talking about, it would've been totally different.
No one really objects to the ten commandments—except for the 4th—unless, of course, they've adopted the new spiritual Sabbath theory.
Post-Internet, 24/7/365, eat/sleep/work/rest/worship all when you can find the time. We're completely disoriented. Our circadian and circaseptan rhythms are all out of whack. If you bring this up, you're seen by most as the proverbial old man yelling at the clouds or worse.
Sorry for the rant, @Josho
.
Similar threads
