Hellfire and brimstone has given way to eternal separation from God. - Why?

[Lizbeth]

I think it is more like a renovation project than a chemical reaction.

Granted, everyone may have a different experience with this.
Some are miraculously transformed in the moment, and others struggle to move forward.

I try to leave room for the experiences and understanding of others.
I don't declare "my truth" over someone else's experience.

Unfortunately, people interpret this as me not taking a stand.

A chemical reaction is instantaneous typically. But I don't think that is the norm for most believers.
Might be a good topic with a poll to vote on it.

A renovation project takes time. The demolition phase removes the unwanted elements.
Then rebuilding can occur. New materials are installed, improvements and upgrades happen.
And in time the project is completed. Those familiar with the previous dwelling may be amazed
at the marvelous transformation. Both a joy and a delight to owner and inhabitant.

[ cc: @Ritajanice

Had a feeling this is how you see it. God knows.

 

[Lizbeth]

I wasn't claiming that we "become newborn spiritual children" through our carnal mind.
My point was that our carnal mind remains, even after spiritual rebirth. We are transformed by the renewing of our mind.
This is not an instantaneous process for most believers. We need to crucify the flesh (carnal mind).

[

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Lizbeth]

I wasn't claiming that we "become newborn spiritual children" through our carnal mind.
My point was that our carnal mind remains, even after spiritual rebirth. We are transformed by the renewing of our mind.
This is not an instantaneous process for most believers. We need to crucify the flesh (carnal mind).

[

Just want to say that I believe it's both instantaneous as well as a process. We do receive the mind of Christ when we receive Christ. But we also need to learn to walk in that.

 

[Lizbeth]

Well, I don't want to be the source of anyone's irritation. I'll stop posting for a while.

There's no need to be offended, I was thinking mostly of Steven's constant questioning people like schoolchildren instead of just stating what his beliefs are and showing what scriptures led to them.

 

[Lizbeth]

OK, tell me how the Holy Spirit has resolved the ones I mentioned.

The Lord was gracious to open to me why Matthew mentioned Jeremiah's prophetic writing with regard to the potter's field...it's post 694 on page 35 when you get back. Keep in mind that the NT reveals the meaning of things in the OT that had previously been hidden to the reader. And it goes to show that even though we may not know how to resolve an apparent discrepancy in scripture at the moment doesn't mean there isn't a resolution. I hope that is helpful.

 

[Johann]

There's no need to be offended, I was thinking mostly of Steven's constant questioning people like schoolchildren instead of just stating what his beliefs are and showing what scriptures led to them.

Stay strong @Lizbeth.

J.

 

[One 2 question]

You are in error-you and @St. SteVen.


Scripture is "God-breathed" and authoritative in all it teaches:

2 Timothy 3:16 (Lexham Bible): "All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness."
This verse emphasizes that all Scripture is inspired by God. The term "God-breathed" (Greek: theopneustos) implies divine origin, not just guidance but the very breath of God. If the text originates from God Himself, it holds authority in both its spiritual and factual claims. The idea that the "factual adornments" can be mistaken would contradict the nature of a God who is Truth (John 14:6).
God’s Word is perfect and pure:

Psalm 19:7 (Lexham Bible): "The law of Yahweh is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of Yahweh is reliable, making the simple wise."
The psalmist declares the law of Yahweh to be "perfect" (tamim), which indicates completeness and soundness, leaving no room for human error. God's Word is not mixed with falsehood or human frailty but stands as a flawless revelation of His truth.

Psalm 12:6 (Lexham Bible): "The words of Yahweh are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times."
God's words are described as pure and thoroughly refined. This purity implies freedom from any imperfections, including factual or historical inaccuracies.

Jesus affirmed the authority and reliability of Scripture:

John 10:35 (Lexham Bible): "If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken."
Jesus affirms that Scripture cannot be "broken" or rendered void. This indicates that every aspect of Scripture—whether moral, spiritual, historical, or factual—is reliable. If any error were present, it would undermine this unbreakable quality that Jesus attributes to God's Word.
The human element in writing does not diminish divine accuracy:

2 Peter 1:20-21 (Lexham Bible): "Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."
Though humans were the instruments through which Scripture was written, they were "carried along" by the Holy Spirit. This eliminates the possibility of human error creeping in, as the inspiration was guided by the Holy Spirit, ensuring accuracy in both spiritual truths and factual details.
God's Word endures forever without error:

Isaiah 40:8 (Lexham Bible): "The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever."
God's Word is not only eternal but also unchanging. This durability and permanence reinforce the inerrancy of Scripture because God's truth remains uncorrupted by human error throughout all generations.
God is not the author of confusion or error:

Numbers 23:19 (Lexham Bible): "God is not a man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?"

If God does not lie and His words are true, then to claim that the human authors of Scripture introduced errors contradicts God’s nature. His message is clear, truthful, and reliable in all its parts, including any historical or factual elements.
In light of these passages, the biblical case for the inerrancy of Scripture is strong. To say that "God-breathed" writings can contain human error would contradict these clear affirmations of the divine perfection, purity, and reliability of the Scriptures as a whole.

J.

Every word in the bible isn't from God hey. Some are of human origin not from the mouth of God Himself.

 

[MatthewG]

@Ronald David Bruno;

While you may believe that God has not reconciled the world unto himself, I would simply disagree. I've spent a lot of time reading scriptures but that doesn't mean I know everything either. Whether or they stand true or not is up to you to decide.

2 Corinthians 5:18-21​

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New King James Version​

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18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not [a]imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

 

[One 2 question]

@Ronald David Bruno;

While you may believe that God has not reconciled the world unto himself, I would simply disagree. I've spent a lot of time reading scriptures but that doesn't mean I know everything either. Whether or they stand true or not is up to you to decide.

2 Corinthians 5:18-21​

​

New King James Version​

​

​

18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not [a]imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight. Col 1

All things! I love this!! All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

I can't wait til all things are reconciled through Him and to Him and for Him!!!!!

All glory to Him Who does all things, with all things that are in Him for His glory and pleasure!

Isn't our Creator worthy of our praise! No wonder those around His throne can't stop praising Him!!

What a glorious scene John saw and painted.

I'm not sure about you but I'm very excited about joining them one day before our incredible Creator to fall before Him and with an unbridled passion and expression, praise Him without ceasing, ever!

 

[MatthewG]

Escatology has a lot to do with many ways people look at things that is for sure. I hope will be doing more things than just simply praising Yahavah. Perhaps we can help people outside of the kingdom. That is one of my hopes. People have to decide for themselves of course. All the best!

Thank your quote, @One 2 question.

 

[MatthewG]

@St. SteVen,

Everytime I want to spell out your name I tend to use Saint Steven. Anyway, Hellfire. Where does that come from exactly in the bible? Brimstone is a stone that is used to rub away rough alloys. The Lake of Fire, is founded to be in front of the Lamb and his angels. So if people go through the fire, which Yahavah is... is that not for a good purpose? Perhaps that is founded upon the entrance of the kingdom for those who have to go through fire in the end to find Yeshua, at the end of it understanding it was him who did take care of all of their sins, burning away all the "rough edges" of darkness within them. Of course, I do not know if you have changed your mind on these things yet, cause this is my first time back in a month. I still stand firmly that everything has been done in the Lord Jesus Christ, with his return having happened, and that the lake of fire is still part of the picture, but Yahavah is not mad at people in the world anymore, though justice is served rightly, for the place that an individual desire to stay at. Hope you read this whole message and hope you are still doing good.

 

[One 2 question]

Escatology has a lot to do with many ways people look at things that is for sure. I hope will be doing more things than just simply praising Yahavah. Perhaps we can help people outside of the kingdom. That is one of my hopes. People have to decide for themselves of course. All the best!

Thank your quote, @One 2 question.

Agreed. I'm also looking forward to restoring and developing the rest of creation once this planet is complete.

There will be lots of fun, enjoyment and pleasure in carrying out this never ending playtime. Can't wait! I believe it will make the likes of Disneyland appear disinteresting in comparison.

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic:

Will you go to heaven when you die? - (or the other place)

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Over the years I have noticed a shift away from
the embarrassment of the hell doctrine.
It had always seemed like the "fly in the ointment" of Christianity to me.
But we had biblical evidence that it was sad, but true.

The solution was evangelism.
We are in the business of "saving souls from hell." Err...
I mean "eternal separation from God."
(whatever that means to you) ???

This task of world evangelism was completely overwhelming.
We had annual world missions conferences for fund raising.
We were sending and supporting missionaries at home and abroad.

Some were wanting to be good stewards of their giving by
demanding results, or channeling the funds toward "fruitful" ministries.
Which meant withdrawing support from any who seemed to not
measure up to their expectations. Made me wonder.

Here at home we were still expected to spread the good news.
But, an over-evangelized America was less than welcoming.
They hadn't forgotten the "hellfire and brimstone".

What's your take on all of this?

[

 

[GISMYS_7]

Beware!! Jesus has more to say about the very real hell=eternal lake of fire than anyone. best you believe Him.

 

[One 2 question]

Beware!! Jesus has more to say about the very real hell=eternal lake of fire than anyone. best you believe Him.

What does the God you've come to know want more? A lake of fire full of unrepentant beings OR an empty LOF as all it's former residence have repented and been released?

 

[Behold]

Over the years I have noticed a shift away from
the embarrassment of the hell doctrine.

Jesus was not embarrased by the "Hell doctrine" and as God created Hell.....there is no reason for you to deny it. @St. SteVen

"The wages of sin is death"...........Death of your body, and if you are not born again before you die, then God's Judgment against your sin will follow you into eternity, and there you will find no way out.

One of my favorite preachers, use to say......."heretics are trying to air condition Hell, before they move in".
IN other words they are trying to get rid of it., by denying it in commentaries and books and videos... and on Forums.

Something that the "no-hellers" need to consider......is the torment that Jesus suffered........ for sins, that He never committed.
So, when we read that His face was "marred beyond recognition".. and we understand that the whippng was so violent that His ribs were unvcovered. .. and that was before He Carried the Cross for a while and was later nailed to it.
So, do you really believe that If God allowed that to happen to Jesus.. for our sins...... that the judgment against Christ rejectors can't be worse, can't be eternal, and can't be found in Hell?

You better get your head together........those of you who believe that "its all going to be great for everyone, after we die".

A.) No its not.

 

[One 2 question]

Beware!! Jesus has more to say about the very real hell=eternal lake of fire than anyone. best you believe Him.

Jesus has more to say about hell than anyone? Or more about the lake of fire than anyone?

Are you refering to the historical Jesus when on earth in human form or the glorified Jesus since He returned to heaven?

I didn't want to assume you meant what was recorded in the bible.

 

[One 2 question]

Jesus was not embarrased by the "Hell doctrine" and as God created Hell.....there is no reason for you to deny it. @St. SteVen

"The wages of sin is death"...........Death of your body, and if you are not born again before you die, then God's Judgment against your sin will follow you into eternity, and there you will find no way out.

One of my favorite preachers, use to say......."heretics are trying to air condition Hell, before they move in".
IN other words they are trying to get rid of it., by denying it in commentaries and books and videos... and on Forums.

Something that the "no-hellers" need to consider......is the torment that Jesus suffered........ for sins, that He never committed.
So, when we read that His face was "marred beyond recognition".. and we understand that the whippng was so violent that His ribs were unvcovered. .. and that was before He Carried the Cross for a while and was later nailed to it.
So, do you really believe that If God allowed that to happen to Jesus.. for our sins...... that the judgment against Christ rejectors can't be worse, can't be eternal, and can't be found in Hell?

You better get your head together........those of you who believe that "its all going to be great for everyone, after we die".

A.) No its not.

There will be judgement handed out for those who don't repent in their lifetime. They will do time for their crime.

But thanks to God's mercy and irresistible grace, all of them will repent and find God's favour. Yes, they will be reconciled to their Creator. Now that's beyond awesome! All glory to God! For He and His LOVE will supersede everything else and reign supreme!

 

[Behold]

There will be judgement handed out for those who don't repent in their lifetime. They will do time for their crime.

I
If a person does not "repent from unbelief" and trust in Christ before they DIE...., so that God can forgive them and give them the new Birth in Christ, so that they become a "Son-Daughter" of God, then they die not havng been born again as a Son-Daugher of God.

= They died Separated from God, as are all unforgiven sinners.

This means that they died under God's Wrath....John 3:36.......and His wrath will never leave the Christ Rejector, who was never born again on earth.

A.) Hell is their initial eternal destination, and it just gets worse, and it will never end for them..... as the Christ Rejector's "eternal life" is DAMNATION.

Reader, No Christian will ever be found in Hell......and no Unbeliever, never born again, will be found in Heaven.

See, UNBELIEVERS who died...never born again..... were under God's Judgment on earth, already..... John 3:36...and had all their life to Receive Christ and be forgiven.. and be SAVED from God's eternal Judgment........and instead they died "in their sins".. Jesus says..........and that means they died having committed the "unpardonable sin"....which is to die never being forgiven Through Jesus's Blood and Death Sacrifice for them....... So now, still unforgiven, they meet GOD after they died as their eternal Judge, not as their heavenly Father.

God's Judgment against the SIN of dying unforgiven...as a CHRIST Rejector...never born again....is an ETERNAL Judgement.

The NT refers to it as DAMNATiON, as "the 2nd Death", and Hell is only a part of this Eternal Judgement.