Is it possible to lose salvation?

[LoveYeshua]

??? I believe all of God's word is inspired by God, which is to say, by Jesus who is God. So, whether I reference words written by Paul or by Matthew, Mark, Luke or John, I'm referencing, ultimately, the words of Jesus. And remember: Jesus's words were written by the hands of these men, not by Jesus himself. They claim to render his words as faithfully as Paul does (1 Co. 2:10; Ga. 1:11-12). What makes their claims superior to Paul's?

these men lived with Jesus for ore than 3 years, while Paul was very busy persecuting the church. and approved of Murder. All paul sais was given to him in secret, we know Jesus always spoke publicly and never in secret;
Here are the verses you are asking for

John 18:20 (NKJV)

Jesus answered him, “I spoke openly to the world. I always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where the Jews always meet, and in secret I have said nothing.”

He made it clear that His teachings were public, open, and available to all—not hidden or given only to a few in secret.
Jesus did warn about people claiming to have hidden or private knowledge about His coming or message. Here is one of the clearest warnings:
Matthew 24:26 (NKJV)

Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Jesus warns that when people say the Messiah or a message from Him is in a hidden place, or something only a few can access, do not believe it. This fits with His earlier point: His truth is not hidden, it is for all.

Together, these verses show that Jesus’ message is public, clear, and for everyone, not something passed down in private visions or secret teachings.

Why do you trust these men to have done a better, more faithful, job than Paul did in communicating the truth? Anyway, I think pitting Paul against Jesus as though they are in opposition to one another is a very unChristian (and spiritually dangerous) thing to do. The earliest Christians didn't do this. The apostle Peter even explicitly acknowledged that Paul wrote authoritative Scripture (2 Pe. 3:15-16). So, I don't ignore Jesus and continue to believe Paul. I give Paul's words and the words of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John equal weight in my thinking.



I don't see in this passage anything about a born-again Christian losing their salvation. Instead, it looks to me like Jesus is talking about the person who hears his words about the coming kingdom of God and ignores them. He was speaking to a primarily Jewish audience at a time when the Old Covenant was still in force. It's no surprise, then, that his remarks were reflective of that law-focused context.



See above.

I listen to Jesus as carefully as I'm able. And because I do, I refuse to accept contortions of what he's recorded as saying, such as the works-salvation, saved-and-lost contortion you're asserting.

Works are not for salvation, once saved you will want to do good around you as the Holy Spirit transforms the hearer of God's words. it's called to love God above all else and love our neighbours. it is showing others who we follow and who we serve, one day you will understand.

Jesus taught clearly that our actions matter. In Matthew 25:31–46, He describes what will happen at the end of time when He comes in glory. He will sit on His throne and gather all nations before Him. He will separate them, like a shepherd separates sheep from goats. To those on His right, He will say:

“Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.”
(Matthew 25:34–36, NKJV)

The righteous will ask, “Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or in need and help You?” And He will answer:

“Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.”
(Matthew 25:40, NKJV)

But to those who did not do these things, He will say, “Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels,” because they saw others in need and did nothing.

The love for Jesus must be shown through actions, especially how we treat others. It’s not just about believing in Him, but about living like Him—with mercy, kindness, and service.

John 13:4-8 (NKJV)​

4 (Jesus) rose from supper and laid aside His garments, took a towel and girded Himself. 5 After that, He poured water into a basin and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded. 6 Then He came to Simon Peter. And Peter said to Him, “Lord, are You washing my feet?” 7 Jesus answered and said to him, “What I am doing you do not understand now, but you will know after this.”

Jesus also gave the parable of the light and salt:

“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? … You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden… Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.”
(Matthew 5:13–16, NKJV)

Salt must have flavor—meaning, a follower of Christ must live a life that brings God’s truth and goodness to others. Light must shine—not hidden. This light is seen through good works, not just words. When people see these works, they see God in you.

This same teaching is repeated in many other parables and sayings of Jesus. In the parable of the Good Samaritan, the one who showed mercy and helped was the true neighbor. In the parable of the two sons, the one who said “I won’t obey” but later did, was the one who truly did the will of the father (Matthew 21:28–31). In all these, Jesus shows that doing matters more than saying.

Finally, Jesus’ own brother, James, confirms this in his letter:

“What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? …
Faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.”
(James 2:14, 17, NKJV)

So from Jesus’ own teachings, and confirmed by James, we learn this truth: Faith without action is empty. True faith must show itself in love, obedience, and good works. Those who follow Christ must walk as He walked, live as He lived, and serve others as He did. Only then are we truly His disciples.

 

[Behold]

So from Jesus’ own teachings, and confirmed by James, we learn this truth: Faith without action is empty. True faith must show itself in love, obedience, and good works. Those who follow Christ must walk as He walked, live as He lived, and serve others as He did. Only then are we truly His disciples.

When James is teaching about Faith and Works......>Hes not teaching that works are reqjuired as Salvation.
James is teaching that if you have been saved, by "Grace through faith"......if you are SAVED, then you will have works that are the fruit of that Salvation......that God have already given you as "the GIFT of Salvaition".

Its also possible to be Religious but lost, never born again, and the person is trying to "be like Christ"....and do good works........ yet they are not a Christian......they are not born again.
They are just a disciple.

 

[mailmandan]

When James is teaching about Faith and Works......>Hes not teaching that works are reqjuired as Salvation.
James is teaching that if you have been saved, by "Grace through faith"......if you are SAVED, then you will have works that are the fruit of that Salvation......

Its also possible to be Religious but lost, never born again, and the person is trying to "be like Christ"....and do good works........ yet they are not a Christian......they are not born again.
They are just a disciple.

Good point. Moral self-reformation is not a substitute for regeneration. There are numerous "nominal" Christians in the world who are "religious, but not right with God."

 

[Behold]

Good point. Moral self-reformation is not a substitute for regeneration. There are numerous "nominal" Christians in the world who are "religious, but not right with God."

True.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

It is an impossibility, to be given a gift, you didn't ask for it, you did nothing to get the gift and to think man can rise to the level of God to lose it.

God is the one that gave man free will.. Man certainly can walk away from this gift and God has to let them walk away if they refuse the leading of the Holy Spirit to repent and come back to him.

If it were actually true that man has no responsibility in his own salvation and God literally controls everything, then in the following scripture reference Jesus must have been uninformed:

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Jesus would not be saying people need to find the path that leads to life

If what you are saying is true then Jesus would have said God only chooses a few to be saved

 

[Behold]

God is the one that gave man free will.. Man certainly can walk away from this gift and God has to let them walk away

Reader,

Becoming a "Christian" is caused by God, and completed by God, on behalf of a SINNER.

Salvation is not Temporary.......Its "Eternal LIFE".... and was completed by Jesus on The Cross, and He said so from The Cross..=.>"IT (Salvation) Is FINISHED..(Accomplished)""

So, a SINNER........gives God their Faith in Christ......and God gives to them, what Christ has FINISHED........that is ETERNAL.

WE, you....us....we dont DO THAT........so, that is not something we KEEP.......its something we RECEVIED That GOD's Son has completed on The Cross..

Now, if later your "head", your "thinking"......becomes, serious screwed up......seriously DECEIVED, because some Liar on This Forum who can't understand God's Grace has lead you to falsely believe that you can "lose your Salvation".....then if you believe you have......
= God doesn't.
So, that is YOUR OWN HEAD.........doing that to you......you have been deceived.

Or, lets say you have some issue in life...and you are crushed...and you blame God like this.....>"why did you let that happen to me".

So, now you HATE GOD.

Now........How does that affect what JESUS has FINISNED 2000 Yrs ago on The Cross, that is given to you by GOD already..., as "the GIFT of Salvation"?

A.) It has no effect,.......zero.......none.

You are just become an angry bitter Christian..who has serious animosity against God who has ALREADY forgiven all your sin, and has given you "the Gift of Eternal Life".... and who lives inside you as "Christ in you", while you are so very upset and filled with hate.

Here is something for the NOOB diaper baby .. Hebrews 6:1 "christian".......to understand.., if possible.

God knows everything that is going to happen next.....as that is "God's Fore-Knowledge".

So, on the Day that God saved you.......He KNEW you would blame Him later, and hate Him.......and yet, He saved you anyway, because God's Salvation is not based on you, or your later behavior.........its only based on the finished work of Jesus on The Cross that is applied to you, for ETERNITY,, the instant you gave God your Faith in Christ.

 

[LoveYeshua]

When James is teaching about Faith and Works......>Hes not teaching that works are reqjuired as Salvation.

agree!

James is teaching that if you have been saved, by "Grace through faith"......if you are SAVED, then you will have works that are the fruit of that Salvation......that God have already given you as "the GIFT of Salvaition". you have verses from james that say this? I would like to see. but you might be right. Jesus also spoke that he is the shepherd and his sheep.

Its also possible to be Religious but lost, never born again, and the person is trying to "be like Christ"....and do good works........ yet they are not a Christian......they are not born again.

Yes, there are many on this forum ( I am not speaking of you)

They are just a disciple.

Well to me a disciple that proclaims the gospel of Christ has the holy spirit and is saved, but I could be wrong. it is complex and God knowlwdge of mens heart will prevail on judgement day.

We know through scripture that some like Balaam who was a true prophet did have a change of heart and was lost.

 

[Behold]

Yes!


Yes, there are many on this forum ( I am not speaking of you)

Well to me a disciple that proclaims the gospel of Christ has the holy spirit and is saved,

There is one Gospel......that Christians are to "preach"

Let me show you how the greatest Christian who ever lived....... understands this, perfectly.., so that we may also.

​

""""""For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.""""" New Living Translation For I decided that while I was with you I would forget everything except Jesus Christ, the one who was crucified. English Standard Version For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. Berean Standard Bible For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Berean Literal Bible For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him having been crucified. King James Bible For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. NASB 1977 For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. Amplified Bible for I made the decision to know nothing [that is, to forego philosophical or theological discussions regarding inconsequential things and opinions while] among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified [and the meaning of His redemptive, substitutionary death and His resurrection].

A.) Its the Gospel of the Grace of God..or the......."Preaching of the Cross".

So, im not certain what you are trying to present as the "Gospel of Christ".

However, Paul's Gospel is...>"Justification by faith"..without works or water baptism.

Paul Gospel is "Grace Through Faith"... or Trust in the finished work of Jesus on The Cross.

John 3:16., is another way to explain it.

 

[bro.tan]

in the scripture it says cursed is the one who does not confirm and obey ever word of this law..

God did not water down the law for you or me so we can not meet the standard he Gave israel and get a get out of jail card.

You have two options

the law
The cross

chose wisely

Paul says in Romans 2: 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 for there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

The book speaks for itself

 

[Behold]

Paul says in Romans 2: 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

A Christian has been rendered eternally forgiven, and born again, not based on their behavior, but based on THe Cross of Christ.

So, this means that the SIN that was previously separating God and Sinner......has been eternally dealt with by The Cross of Christ.

God saves believers when they are "ungodly" and "yet sinners"....and this is their "Gift of Eternal Life""", that is never changed, altered, or denied, by behavior that happens later.

 

[Kokyu]

these men lived with Jesus for ore than 3 years, while Paul was very busy persecuting the church. and approved of Murder. All paul sais was given to him in secret, we know Jesus always spoke publicly and never in secret;

All that Paul learned concerning the Gospel and the Christian faith he subjected to the other apostles for inspection. Despite learning what he did in the manner that he did, his understanding and teaching was validated and approved by them. What's more, the apostle John's entire Revelation was obtained "in secret," no one else privy to his visions as he lived in exile on Patmos. Ought we, then, to rule out his apocalyptic book? Luke wrote both the Gospel bearing his name and Acts, but he wasn't a direct disciple of Jesus or an apostle of the Early Church. Should we exclude his writings, too, then? King David was an adulterer and murderer. And yet, his many Psalms are part of God's word. In light of these things, I wonder very much just how carefully you've thought through what you've written above.

And, by the way, how would mere human men obtain the supernatural knowledge that Christ possessed as the GOD-Man? None of the apostles were God incarnate, as Jesus was; none of them were part of the eternal Triune Godhead; none of them had created a universe, or had left their heavenly glory at God's right hand. Why, then, are you comparing the teachings of God-in-the-flesh with mere men? This is like expecting of a microbe what you'd expect of your next-door neighbor: Doing so is entirely strange and unreasonable.

John 18:20 (NKJV)
He made it clear that His teachings were public, open, and available to all—not hidden or given only to a few in secret.
Jesus did warn about people claiming to have hidden or private knowledge about His coming or message. Here is one of the clearest warnings:
Matthew 24:26 (NKJV)
Jesus warns that when people say the Messiah or a message from Him is in a hidden place, or something only a few can access, do not believe it. This fits with His earlier point: His truth is not hidden, it is for all.

Together, these verses show that Jesus’ message is public, clear, and for everyone, not something passed down in private visions or secret teachings.

See above.

Works are not for salvation, once saved you will want to do good around you as the Holy Spirit transforms the hearer of God's words.

Yes, after being saved you may have a desire to "do good," but just read Romans 7:14-22. Or read Galatians 5:18. Or consider the Corinthian Christians (1 Co. 3, 5, 6, 11). The Spirit's transformation of a person in whom he dwells is not certain, depending as it does upon their conscious, explicit agreement to being changed, given by their submission to his will and way throughout each day (Ja. 4:6-10; 1 Pe. 5:6; Ro. 6:13-22).

it's called to love God above all else and love our neighbours. it is showing others who we follow and who we serve, one day you will understand.

Being patronizing doesn't strengthen your views. It makes you look unsure of them.

Jesus taught clearly that our actions matter.

Well, of course they do. Who's saying that they don't? Not me.

The love for Jesus must be shown through actions, especially how we treat others. It’s not just about believing in Him, but about living like Him—with mercy, kindness, and service.

The First and Great Commandment has to do with your heart's desire, your inner wo/man, not with external good works. This over-riding, positive, heart's desire for God is where obedience begins and is the necessary predicate to all other obedience to God. See Matthew 22:36-38 and 1 Corinthians 13:1-3. But I strongly suspect that you think love for God is doing good works rather than a strong and ever-strengthening heart's desire for Him. Again, if this is so, consider carefully 1 Corinthians 13:1-3. Any good deed you do apart from a love, a heart's desire, for God is disobedience and spiritually useless, Paul wrote. The Pharisees, who were professionally obedient to God's laws, were the most condemned by Christ who declared that, despite their law-keeping, the Pharisees had hearts that were far from God (Matthew 15:8). So, don't make the mistake the Pharisees did, who thought their obedience to God showed they loved Him. Not hardly. Jesus called them "sons of hell."

We don't just do our best to live like Jesus. We are to be vessels in and through whom the Spirit of Christ communicates himself.

Conduits, not Copyists.

Isaiah 64:8

jonathanhay.substack.com

 

[KUWN]

We don't just do our best to live like Jesus. We are to be vessels in and through whom the Spirit of Christ communicates himself.

Since Christ lived during the Mosaic Dispensation. I pattern my life after the Apostle Paul. Remember, Paul said to imitate me (Paul) and Paul would follow Christ. The Mosaic Law that Christ followed is no longer in effect, it is obsolete since Christ fulfilled it.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I pattern my life after the Apostle Paul.

We are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ, not Paul.

People that know the Lord have a direct relationship with Him so I recommend
repentance and start following Jesus at the earliest convenience!

 

[KUWN]

We are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ, not Paul.

People that know the Lord have a direct relationship with Him so I recommend
repentance and start following Jesus at the earliest convenience!

Should I bring a lamb to the altar? Paul didn't.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Should I bring a lamb to the altar? Paul didn't.

God called you to be like Jesus and to follow Him

Having a pet Lamb has nothing to do with that unless you wanna make lamb chops!

 

[Behold]

All that Paul learned concerning the Gospel and the Christian faith he subjected to the other apostles for inspection. Despite learning what he did in the manner that he did, his understanding and teaching was validated and approved by them.

Actually, in Acts 15, Paul taught the other Apostles, who learned his Doctrine.

Paul's Doctrine, came from Jesus, so, no other apostle was going to "check this" or "correct this", as Paul's Doctrine was given to Him by Jesus., personally., including THE Gospel.

In Galatians.......... Paul speak about the other Apostles, and their knowledge and said this.. about them all...

""""""As for those who were held in high esteem—whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not show favoritism—they added nothing to my message."""""""

And in 2nd Peter, .. it was Peter himself who said that Paul's letters were "Scripture"......equal to the Torah.
Later these same became the doctrine for the Church, and THE Gospel, and they make up MOST of the New Testament Epistles.

 

[LoveYeshua]

We are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ, not Paul.

People that know the Lord have a direct relationship with Him so I recommend
repentance and start following Jesus at the earliest convenience!

AMEN!

 

[LoveYeshua]

Actually, in Acts 15, Paul taught the other Apostles, who learned his Doctrine.

Paul's Doctrine, came from Jesus, so, no other apostle was going to "check this" or "correct this", as Paul's Doctrine was given to Him by Jesus., personally., including THE Gospel.

In Galatians.......... Paul speak about the other Apostles, and their knowledge and said this.. about them all...

""""""As for those who were held in high esteem—whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not show favoritism—they added nothing to my message."""""""

And in 2nd Peter, .. it was Peter himself who said that Paul's letters were "Scripture"......equal to the Torah.
Later these same became the doctrine for the Church, and THE Gospel, and they make up MOST of the New Testament Epistles.

2 peter is heavily disputed and may not be scripture after all, research this topic and see. ig you remove 2 peter , paul's doctrines fall flat ot it's face.

also what you mentionned about """"""""As for those who were held in high esteem—whatever they were makes no difference to me; ""

is clearly indicative of the tension and between the original 11 and paul, the original disciples had paul take a nazarite vows for a good reason, because paul was teaching AGAINST the law, the same law that Christ said would never pass away.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Should I bring a lamb to the altar? Paul didn't.

you do not know scripture, Jesus ended the sacrifice since he, the lamb of God paid the price of sin for us all. paul knew this why dont you know this you who follow Paul? Also paul was against the law and the temple, for the sins he committed against the church and his approval to Murder he would have needed a full heard of cattle for atone for his crimes.

Jesus said, ‘To have good fruit you must have a good tree. If you have a bad tree, then you will get bad fruit from it. You can know all about a tree by the kind of fruit that it makes.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

ask ourselves this

if we can lose salvation.

are we really saved

So if you loose a thing, did you ever really have that thing?

That’s your logic?