Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Me too.
Then why do we still sin, Zao, at least from time to time? Sin has not been destroyed in full yet. But it certainly will be...
Okay, well then in the same vein as directly above, why is there still death? Why are there still folks dying? Death has not been destroyed in full yet. But it certainly will be.
..."at His coming." I'm thinking the answer to this is yes, but I'll ask it anyway, really rhetorically, to make a point: Yes, "at His coming..." which is still yet future, right? I'll just consider it a given that your answer to that is yes. So Paul's talking about an absolute certainty, but then and even now still an event that has not yet occurred. I mean, there it is, "will be," in verse 22, so obviously in the future, at least then. You believe that even now it's yet future, right? But even now, we can live in that certainty. Ergo... now and not yet.
Yes, but I think not quite in the sense that you hear me saying what I'm saying. Completed more in the sense of consummation, rather than anything really yet to be done or left undone. "It is finished," He said with His last words on the cross, and I think we agree on what that means ~ everything needed to accomplish the redemption of all creation and to achieve the final victory has been done. But yet, redemption is not yet complete (but surely will be) and the final victory has not been won yet (but surely will be).
If my context were what you seem to think it is, then no, it wouldn't be biblical. But that's the problem, it seems. See directly above.
Okay, sure, I agree... but I'm not even sure how you got here...
And again, in the same vein as above, why then do we still sin? Satan's deceptions, which take many, many forms, tempt us to sin, and we still succumb to that temptation from time to time. So, again, I would say that Satan does have the power to deceive that person, but something ~ Somebody (with a capital 'S'... well, a capital 'H' and a capital 'S'...) actually ~ is keeping that from happening... <smile> We have the Holy Spirit for now, Zao, and He helps us in our temptation. This is the struggle within, which Paul describes in himself in Romans 7. But... there is therefore now no condemnation for those of us who are in Christ Jesus, and nothing and no one can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 8).
<smile> Again, what is faith, Zao? And where does it come from? Who gives it? 1st Corinthians 12:4-11 will be helpful here, particularly verse 9 there. And Hebrews 11:1 is the very definition of faith. And once we have it, we have it.
I think you'll agree that God uses sin and evil sinlessly to accomplish His purposes. We can talk about what it means to ordain something, but it should be sufficient to say that to ordain something does not mean sanctioning it; ordaining and sanctioning are two very different things. At any rate, God works all things ~ all things, Zao, which includes sin and evil ~ together for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose. That surely does not mean that God is guilty of sin or evil, but He can ~ and does ~ use those things to accomplish His good purposes.
...that members of all the nations ~ Gentiles ~ are responding to the Gospel and coming to repentance and believe in Christ Jesus. This was my initial point, and proof that we are in the midst of God's millennium, the thousand years ~ to be understood as a fullness of time, not literally one thousand 365-day periods ~ in which He is building His Israel, bringing it to completion. The number is symbolic, intensely analogous to what the Psalmist says in Psalm 50, that the cattle on a thousand hills are the Lord's, and also to what Peter says, that to God, the great I AM, Who is in what we might call the eternal now, a thousand years is as a day, and a day as a thousand years. A slight digression, there, but God is building His Israel, bringing it to completion, and that is absolutely certain to happen. <smile> Then will be the end of this current age, "these last days," which is obviously present tense, in the sense of Hebrews 1:2... present in the day it was written and present now.
Okay, well in my honest opinion, your opinion on this is silly. <smile> If God has made things the way they are ~ now and not yet, as I have said ~ then how is He or His Gospel "rendered impotent" to any degree at all? I think we can agree that in a sense, yes, Christ's victory is complete, but in another sense, not yet. But even in the latter (not yet) sense, it will be complete, and so certain is this final victory that it can be regarded as complete now.
Same as above.
Where did you get this from? This is another deliberate misrepresentation of Amil. You do not truly get what we believe. Diva is the same. This is a typical frustrated Premil rant after you are unable to refute Amil. All you can do is avoid every argument that forbids what you have been taught. I refer the reader to all your avoidance above.
LOL. Who do you think you're kidding with this? As if you don't ever get personal? You do often. And, how is it intelligent back and forth when you just make claims without making any coherent arguments using scripture?
Why are you buying into rebuilder 454's act? He makes as many or more personal insults as anyone here. WPM showed a small sampling. So, why does he get a pass from you? If not because he is pre-trib, then what other reason is there for this?
Amen. And the kind of authority we have over the spiritual enemy is unprecedented and not something that believers had in Old Testament times. Satan and his minions were bound by the death and resurrection of Christ and by the preaching of the gospel through the power of the Holy Spirit. Their activities were significantly restrained compared to what they were able to do in Old Testament times when Satan had the power of death that he used to keep the vast majority of people in slavery to the fear of death. It amazes me that anyone would not recognize the relation between Hebrews 2:14-15 and the binding of Satan. He went from being able to keep the vast majority in slavery to the fear of death with no hope of eternal life in OT times to not being able to prevent "a great multitude which no one can count" (Rev 7:9) being saved and having the hope of eternal life in NT times.
Would you stop with this? Seriously!
No. I will not. You've now been shown proof of some of his insulting comments and you don't seem to care about that. Why is that?
So what? He has spoken that way to others. Why is that okay with you?
So, what are your thoughts about him after seeing that? Did you not make your post #121 after seeing WPM's post? That's what it seemed like to me, so that's why it came across as you not caring what he has said to others.
I'm not demanding anything. I'm asking you to explain yourself. Is your opinion of rebuilder454 now changed or not?
It gets tiresome for someone to ask you to explain yourself? Why? You can just clarify things right now by saying what you think of rebuilder 454's comments that WPM posted. Can you see now that he is just pretending to prefer civil discussions?
Oh, look. Mr. Holier Than Thou has decided to chime in. The one who once posted the same animated gif picture about 10 times in a row. He's the one who should lecture the rest of us on how to behave. Yeah, okay. <laughs uncontrollably>
Who says anything is OK with me?
I'm not chuckling . . . it's not a good look for people to act that way. I'm out.
Calm down. So, what are your thoughts on the things that rebuilder 454 said that WPM quoted in post 120? Your response to that post included nothing about how you felt about those quotes.
No need to project some imagined emotionalism. I told you . . . I'm out. I'm not interested.
