Doctrine of Predestination

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Big Boy Johnson

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Calvin taught that there is nothing one can do to be saved because God has already decided who is going to be saved and who is not going to be saved. John Calvin twisted the meaning of Ephesians 1:4-5.

His interpretation of these two verses caused him to ask, “Does this passage teach that our salvation is strictly a matter of God’s arbitrary election before the world was made, irrespective of any choice that we might exercise in the matter?”

According to John Calvin, this passage teaches exactly that. The Presbyterian Westminster Confession of Faith stated: “By decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestined unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death.” (Article III).

Thus, we have the damnable heresy of predestination. This doctrine is at the core of Calvinism and its influence is widely felt throughout much of christendom and has influenced people that claim to not be calvinists.
 

Davy

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One must study all... the Bible to even begin to understand how Apostle Paul meant the idea of being 'predestinated' per Romans 8. And the idea of predestination IS WRITTEN in God's Word. So anyone saying it is not an idea that is written are simply being hard-headed against God's written Word, and my following explanation isn't for them.

Rom 8:29-30
29 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.
KJV


Matt.25:34 - Jesus points to the kingdom having been prepared for Christ's sheep before the foundation of the world. That points to the idea of predestination.

John 17:6 - Jesus mentions those given Him (Apostles), originally belonged to The Father, and The Father gave them to Jesus. That's predestination.

Ephesians 1:4 - Paul speaking to the Church at Ephesus, those who were chosen before the foundation of the world.

Revelation 13:8 - those who names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will not worship that "dragon" (devil).

Matthew 22:14 - Jesus saying that many are called, but few are chosen. That's about predestination of an elect.


The Biblical proof that this idea of PREDESTINATION exists, is that fact of those chosen vs. those called only.

Apostle Paul was a prime example of a chosen one. But when Christ chose him on the road to Damascus, Paul was actually hunting down Christians and bringing them in chains back to Jerusalem to be tried. Yet Jesus said that Paul was His "chosen vessel" to take The Gospel to the Gentiles, and to kings, and to the children of Israel. Jesus DIVINELY INTERVENED in Paul's life, taking Paul's choice away and removing all doubt. That is a sign of a chosen one, one which Christ already owns.

New Testament Scripture gives both... examples, teaching about a group of Christ's elect that can never fall away (like Paul), and then those whom Paul continually admonished to remain in Christ, which means those could... fall away IF they so desired, and thus having been 'called' only, and not chosen.

That's how Calvin, et al, became confused, because The Bible does teach about a chosen elect that cannot fall away from their duty God gives them (remember Jonah?). But The Bible also teaches about those that are subject to falling away, and thus called only. The chosen have already been predestinated, and justified, and sanctified, before the foundation of the world, and that's who Paul was pointing to in Romans 8.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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God predestined ALL to be saved, and then many allowed satan to blind their eyes to prevent them from seeing the Gospel
See - Romans 8:29-30, Romans 1:19-21, Titus 2:11-12, 1 John 2:2, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:1-4, Acts 17:30, John 12:32, Hebrews 2:9, John 3:16, Matthew 5:6

The Lord tells us in His Word why not all are saved:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


Jesus tells us each person is responsible for finding the pathway that leads to life because they are without excuse (Romans 1:19-21)

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.


Sadly the calvinists claim Jesus is a liar since Jesus never taught calvinism and they specialize in twisting scripture as they are speaking in behalf of their father the devil

Here are those that end up being the elect:

Psalm 4:3
But know that the LORD hath set apart him that is godly for himself: the LORD will hear when I call unto him.

2 Timothy 2:21
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honor, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Those that turn away from walking in darkness and instead walk with the Lord and endure In Christ until, the end of their lives are the elect.

This does not mean the Lord did not want all to be saved or that He has not provided salvation for all as the calvinists have been falsely taught by the devil.
 
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Davy

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God predestined ALL to be saved, and then many allowed satan to blind their eyes to prevent them from seeing the Gospel
See - Romans 8:29-30, Romans 1:19-21, Titus 2:11-12, 1 John 2:2, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:1-4, Acts 17:30, John 12:32, Hebrews 2:9, John 3:16, Matthew 5:6

The Lord tells us in His Word why not all are saved:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


Jesus tells us each person is responsible for finding the pathway that leads to life because they are without excuse (Romans 1:19-21)

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.


Sadly the calvinists claim Jesus is a liar since Jesus never taught calvinism and they specialize in twisting scripture as they are speaking in behalf of their father the devil

Here are those that end up being the elect:

Psalm 4:3
But know that the LORD hath set apart him that is godly for himself: the LORD will hear when I call unto him.

2 Timothy 2:21
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honor, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Those that turn away from walking in darkness and instead walk with the Lord and endure In Christ until, the end of their lives are the elect.

This does not mean the Lord did not want all to be saved or that He has not provided salvation for all as the calvinists have been falsely taught by the devil.

And what about those deceived on man's false pre-trib rapture theory at the end of this world when the false-Messiah shows up in Jerusalem claiming to be God? Will you just say things like, 'well, those were never true believers on Christ anyway'?

How many thousands upon thousands of believers on Christ Jesus follow man's false pre-trib rapture theory? So those were never true believers, which is just an excuse for not understanding God's Word about the coming "strong delusion" that is going to be upon many of Christ's Church at the end. Reminds me of this...

Rev 13:4-8
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV

That right there is pointing out the idea of Christ's chosen elect which cannot be deceived vs. those called only that still can be deceived.

Likewise this distinction is made here:

Matt 24:23-26
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders;
insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, He is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, He is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
KJV
 

Big Boy Johnson

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And what about those deceived on man's false pre-trib rapture

That does not disqualify one from being saved.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 clearly tells us the raptures does not happen until after the man of sin is revealed which is when the great tribulation starts although the first half will be mostly peaceful which is how the anti-christ deceives so many in to following him and taking the mark since he initially brings peace and seemingly bring solutions to all the world's problems.

Just because someone believes the rapture happens before the man of sin is revealed does not automatically mean they have been deceived by the man of sin since the man of sin is not here yet.

It just means for right now they have the timing of the rapture wrong.




Christ's chosen elect which cannot be deceived

The ones who cannot be deceived are the ones that choose to abide in Christ enduring in Christ for their entire lives.

Here are those that end up being the elect:

Psalm 4:3
But know that the LORD hath set apart him that is godly for himself: the LORD will hear when I call unto him.

2 Timothy 2:21
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honor, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Those that turn away from walking in darkness and instead walk with the Lord and endure In Christ until, the end of their lives are the elect.

This does not mean the Lord did not want all to be saved or that He has not provided salvation for all as the calvinists have been falsely taught by the devil.
 

Nameaboveallnames

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One of the biggest plagues in what professes to be modern-day Christianity is that of Calvinism. In a nutshell, which is where the nutjob John Calvin belonged, Calvinism alleges that God predestinated all of us to either heaven or hell before we were even born. In other words, according to Calvinism, our free will choices in this life allegedly have nothing to do with our eternal destinies. This is complete and utter heresy, so I will briefly address this matter at this time.

Whenever this topic arises, there are five different words that appear in scripture that are brought up in relation to the same, and they are as follows:

1. Predestinated or predestinate.
2. Adoption.
3. Earnest.
4. Foreknowledge, foreknow, or foreknew.
5. Election or elect.

It is imperative that we apply the proper biblical definitions to each of these terms or else we are going to come away with wrong doctrine…something of which many churches are presently full. In this post, I am going to address every instance in the Bible where the words "predestinated/predestinate" and "adoption" appear, and I will touch upon the word "earnest" as well. I will CAPITALIZE these words for emphasis each time that they appear within a text as I show what they actually mean, in context, or as I show exactly what Christians have actually been predestinated unto.

The words “predestinated” and “predestinate” appear only four times in the Bible in Eph. 1:5, 11, Rom. 8:29, and 30.

The word “adoption” appears only five times in the Bible in Rom. 8:15, 23, 9:4, Gal. 4:5, and Eph. 1:5.

Seeing how there is only one place in scripture where the words "predestinated" and "adoption" appear in the same verse (Eph. 1:5), I will start there to hopefully show you exactly what predestination is and is not.

We read:

"Having PREDESTINATED us unto the ADOPTION of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will," (Eph. 1:5)

For starters, the "us" who have been "predestinated" are "the saints" or "the faithful in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 1:1). In context, this passage says absolutely nothing about anything that unbelievers were allegedly "predestinated" unto. Furthermore, this passage tells us exactly what "the saints" or "the faithful in Christ Jesus" have been "predestinated" unto, and that is "the adoption of children.”

The underlying Greek word "huiothesia,” which is here translated into English as "adoption,” does not carry the same meaning that our modern-day English word “adoption” carries. Instead, this underlying Greek word literally means “to place as an adult son.”


“The word adoption in the New Testament is translated from the Greek word huiothesia, which means ‘the placing of an adult son’ and refers to the formal act of recognizing the maturity of an adult son. The word is found in five New Testament passages: Rom. 8:15,23: 9:4; Gal. 4:5; Eph. 1:5.

The new-born baby is brephos, as in ‘the babe (brephos), lying in a manger...’. The word sometimes refers to the fetus, as in ‘...the babe (brephos) leapt in her womb...’. The believer is also called teknon, a child which is growing up but which is still under parental care. Hence John 1:12, ‘...to them gave he power to become the sons (teknon) of God.’ But the believer is also in union with Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is called huios, ‘an adult son’. So, in union with him, we are said to be adult sons also, although we may be brephos or teknon by experience.

To the people living in the predominantly Greek and Roman culture of the 1st Century A.D., the word huiothesia would bring to mind the ceremony of toga virilis, in which a 14-year-old boy went through an investiture ceremony with the adult male members of his family. At this ceremony, speeches of challenge to the youth would be made, and offerings would be made to the gods. Then, the boy would stand in the center of the group and take off the child's garment that he wore. A new adult man's robe, or toga, would be placed on him. This was the toga virilis, the ‘robe of a man.’

At this time, the 14-year-old was given adult privileges and responsibilities. He could conduct business in his own name, could buy and sell property, could marry, could vote in the Assembly, and in many other ways could carry on as an adult citizen. Of course, he was not mature enough or wise enough to exercise all of the privileges he had; and he was not experienced enough to live up to all of the responsibilities. But the seriousness of his position as a citizen was impressed on him; and if he was intelligent and hardworking, he would grow up to be an adult having integrity and character.”

As we just read, the word "adoption," as it is used in the Bible, refers to a Roman coming-of-age ceremony, which would be the equivalent of a Jewish Bar Mitzvah, and Paul perfectly explained this coming-of-age ceremony in Galatians chapter 4.

There, we read:

"Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differs nothing from a servant, though he is lord of all; But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the ADOPTION of sons. And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore you are no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ." (Gal. 4:1-7)

In Roman culture, if I had a young son who would eventually be my heir, then he would have been "under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father," or until the time of his "adoption," or until the time of his placing as an adult son arrived. In other words, when my son would have reached a certain age, there would have been a coming-of-age ceremony or an "adoption" which would have signified that my son was passing from the classification of a child who "differs nothing from a servant" unto the classification of an adult son. During this ceremony, my son would have been donned with what was called a toga virilis, and the donning of this toga virilis would have conferred important rights and privileges to my son who would have then been deemed to be an adult in society.


Paul used this Roman custom to describe the purpose of "the law" in the life of a believer. "The law" was our "tutor and governor until the time appointed of the father," or until the time came that we were redeemed from "differing nothing from servants" by the blood of Christ, and we received "the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father.” In fact, Paul referred to this same "Spirit" as "the Spirit of adoption" in his epistle to the Romans.

Turning there, we read:

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but you have received the Spirit of ADOPTION, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the EARNEST expectation of the creature waits for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who has subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the ADOPTION, to wit, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man sees, why does he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it." (Rom. 8:14-25)

"The spirit of bondage again to fear" pertains directly to "the law," which Paul likened to the bondmaid/bondwoman Hagar in Gal. 4:21-31, and which "genders to bondage" (Gal. 4:24). In other words, "the law" kept people in both "bondage" and "fear" in that it rightly identified what sin was, but offered no deliverance from the same apart from saving faith in Christ.

With such being the case, those who were under "the law" were not only in "bondage" to sin, but they also had a "fearful" expectation of coming judgment. In stark contrast to these, we who have placed our saving faith in Christ have received a totally different "Spirit"…"the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.”

Here is what is interesting, though, and this truth cannot be missed:

Neither our "adoption" nor our "redemption" are yet complete.

No, as Paul himself said, Christians have merely received "the first-fruits of the Spirit,” or what he elsewhere called "the earnest of the Spirit" (2 Cor. 1:22, 5:5, Eph. 1:13-14), and we are still "waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body” (Rom. 8:23). Yes, Paul said that this "adoption" or "redemption of our body" is what Christians "hope for" and "with patience wait for it” (Rom. 8:25).

(Continued in my next post)
 

Nameaboveallnames

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(Continued from my previous post)

Furthermore, Paul's use of the word "earnest" in this portion of scripture refers to a real estate term or to earnest money.


In real estate, when somebody plans on purchasing a building, they will give a deposit or a down payment of earnest money, which signifies that they earnestly intend to complete the transaction at a future time.

Where Christians are concerned, neither our "adoption" nor our "redemption" will be complete until the time comes that we receive glorified bodies. Until that day arrives, God has given us "the earnest of the Spirit" to signify that he plans to complete his purchase at that time.

To this end, Paul wrote:

"In whom you also trusted, after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the EARNEST of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." (Eph. 1:13-14)

"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby you are sealed unto the day of redemption." (Eph. 4:30)

Again, as Christians, we have presently only received "that holy Spirit OF PROMISE, which is THE EARNEST OF OUR INHERITANCE UNTIL THE REDEMPTION OF THE PURCHASED POSSESSION," or until the yet coming "day of redemption.” This yet coming "day of redemption" is the same exact "adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body" that Paul wrote of in Rom. 8:23.

As a Roman son was not fully deemed to be "an heir" until the time came that he donned his toga virilis, we, as Christians, will not receive our inheritance until the time comes that we don our glorified bodies at the second coming of Christ. If we understand what the word "adoption" meant in the time of Paul, and the significance of the donning of the toga virilis, then we will also understand why Paul used terminology in line with putting on new clothing in relation to our glorified bodies.

For example, we read:

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So, when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your victory?" (1 Cor. 15:51-55)

Notice the changing of the garment or when "this corruptible must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality.” Again, this takes place at the second coming of Christ when we will receive "the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body" (Rom. 8:23). This changing of the garment becomes even more evident in Paul's second epistle to the Corinthians.

There. we read:

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, EARNESTLY desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Now he that has wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also has given unto us the EARNEST of the Spirit." (2 Cor. 5:1-5)

Here, we not only read of how Christians are "earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven…that mortality might be swallowed up of life,” but we also read of how God has "given unto us the earnest of the Spirit" in relation to the same. Again, Paul's use of the word earnest pertains directly to earnest money that was given in real estate purchases, and it is no wonder that it appears here in relation to our "earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our HOUSE which is from heaven.”

In the same way that a Roman adoption was not complete until a new toga virilis was donned, our own adoptions will not be complete until the time comes that we receive glorified bodies at the second coming of Christ. THIS is what Christians have truly been "predestinated unto" (Eph. 1:5), and, again, it will be fulfilled at the second coming of Christ.

To this end, Paul wrote:

"Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he has purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him who works all things after the counsel of his own will:" (Eph. 1:9-11)

Again, Christians have been "predestinated…unto the adoption of children" (Eph. 1:5), and such will be completed in "the fulness of times" or when God "gathers together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth.” As Paul wrote elsewhere (1 Thess. 4:13-17), at Christ's second coming, the dead in Christ (those "which are in heaven") will rise first to receive their glorified bodies, and then the Christians who are yet alive (those "which are on earth") will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air to receive their glorified bodies as well.

Well, now that we hopefully understand what Christians have truly been "predestinated unto," let us look at the last two places in scripture where the word "predestinate" occurs.

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did PREDESTINATE to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover, whom he did PREDESTINATE, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." (Rom. 8:29-30)

Please notice that foreknowledge PRECEDES predestination in scripture. Seeing how God truly knows what is going to happen in advance, he has predestinated Christians "to be conformed to the image of his Son,” and, again, this is speaking in relation to Christians receiving the same type of glorified bodies that Jesus has at his second coming. I must add the following to destroy the false Calvinistic definition of the word "predestination" in scripture.

In this same epistle of Paul to the Romans, we read:

"For if the first fruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them partake of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if you boast, you bear not the root, but the root you. You will say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Be not high-minded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not you. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness: otherwise you also shall be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?" (Rom. 11:16-24)

(Continued in my next post)
 

Nameaboveallnames

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(Continued from my previous post)

Although Christians truly have been "predestinated…unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ" (Eph. 1:5), such is only guaranteed "IF we continue in his goodness: otherwise we also shall be cut off.” In other words, our FREE WILL is directly related to us receiving that which we have been "predestinated unto,” and if we WILLFULLY depart from Christ, then we shall be cut off. Furthermore, if the unbelieving Jews who are presently "broken off" come to the place where they "abide not still in unbelief,” then they shall reap the full rewards of "predestination" themselves.

In fact, Paul addressed this earlier in this same epistle to the Roman when he said:

"I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertains the ADOPTION, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;" (Rom. 9:1-4)

Paul wished himself "accursed from Christ" for his "kinsmen according to the flesh: who are Israelites; to whom pertains the adoption.”

If these unbelieving Jews whom Paul had "great heaviness and continual sorrow" in his heart for became believers in Christ, then "the adoption" would pertain to them as well as it does to believing Gentiles.

My point?

That the false Calvinistic definition of "predestination" is utter heresy. Whereas they claim that God allegedly "predestinated" certain people to eternal life and others to eternal damnation apart from their own FREE WILL CHOICES, the Bible teaches something completely different.

Not only does predestination pertain to Christians receiving glorified bodies at Christ's second coming, but even those who presently are "predestinated unto" the same can lose their inheritance if they turn away from the Lord. I know that people do not like to hear this, but it is biblical truth just the same.

Again, properly understanding Paul's use of the word "earnest" in scripture helps to make this truth plain. Earnest money can be returned to the purchaser, and the purchase can be cancelled out or voided. In fact, I have personally received back earnest money twice out here in Pennsylvania.

Well, that is everywhere in scripture where the words “predestinate/predestinated” and “adoption” appear, and biblical predestination has absolutely nothing to do with God allegedly predetermining who goes to either heaven or hell.

Who has ears to hear, let them hear.
 

Ronald Nolette

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"Having PREDESTINATED us unto the ADOPTION of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will," (Eph. 1:5)

For starters, the "us" who have been "predestinated" are "the saints" or "the faithful in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 1:1). In context, this passage says absolutely nothing about anything that unbelievers were allegedly "predestinated" unto. Furthermore, this passage tells us exactly what "the saints" or "the faithful in Christ Jesus" have been "predestinated" unto, and that is "the adoption of children.”

The underlying Greek word "huiothesia,” which is here translated into English as "adoption,” does not carry the same meaning that our modern-day English word “adoption” carries. Instead, this underlying Greek word literally means “to place as an adult son.”
Of course it is the saints who are predestined! it is the Word pro-orozo which means to mark in advance. so we were marked out in advance to the adoption as children. When did that marking in advance occur?

Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

And chosen is eklegomai which means to choose. so we were chosen before the word began.

Where you got that hokey definition for adoption is not from Koine Greek. It means to place a son into a family! It carries more weight in adoption than current meanings of adoption does!
 

Ronald Nolette

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2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


Jesus tells us each person is responsible for finding the pathway that leads to life because they are without excuse (Romans 1:19-21)

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.


Sadly the calvinists claim Jesus is a liar since Jesus never taught calvinism and they specialize in twisting scripture as they are speaking in behalf of their father the devil

Here are those that end up being the elect:

Psalm 4:3
But know that the LORD hath set apart him that is godly for himself: the LORD will hear when I call unto him.

2 Timothy 2:21
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honor, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Those that turn away from walking in darkness and instead walk with the Lord and endure In Christ until, the end of their lives are the elect.
You call this the gospel? You are 100% wrong. And you rerror here is you confuse the experience of a believer in their day to day life with their position as a believer.

It truly is tragic that it is you who denis the gospel of salvation. Based on your pontificating proclamations you show you believe that jesus did not die for all your sins! You also condemn those whom you disagree with (though most are probably saved) See belief in the five tenets of Calvinism as I do or belief in the five tenets of Jacob Arminius as you do has nothing to do with whether or not a person is saved or not! You have been blinded by hatred and darkness towards your brethren.


SAD SAD TRULY SAD!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Big Boy Johnson

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Of course it is the saints who are predestined! it is the Word pro-orozo which means to mark in advance. so we were marked out in advance to the adoption as children. When did that marking in advance occur?


Ha ha, just like the cults calvinist claims they are the only one who believe correctly.




You are 100% wrong.

No, you are 101% wrong because calvinism teaches Jesus is a liar.

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me.

Calvinists claim Jesus lied and did not draw all men until Himself, then they claim Jesus only drew calvinists to himself to be saved. Then they claim Jesus got all mean like and decided that all others are marked for hell.

God predestined ALL to be saved, and then many allowed satan to blind their eyes to prevent them from seeing the Gospel

See - Romans 8:29-30, Romans 1:19-21, Titus 2:11-12, 1 John 2:2, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:1-4, Acts 17:30, John 12:32, Hebrews 2:9, John 3:16, Matthew 5:6

The Lord tells us in His Word why not all are saved:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Jesus tells us each person is responsible for finding the pathway that leads to life because they are without excuse (Romans 1:19-21)

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.

Sadly the calvinists claim Jesus is a liar since Jesus never taught calvinism and they specialize in twisting scripture as they are speaking in behalf of their father the devil

Here are those that end up being the elect:

Psalm 4:3
But know that the LORD hath set apart him that is godly for himself: the LORD will hear when I call unto him.

2 Timothy 2:21
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honor, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Those that turn away from walking in darkness and instead walk with the Lord and endure In Christ until, the end of their lives are the elect.

Those that turn away from walking in darkness and instead walk with the Lord and endure In Christ until, the end of their lives are the elect.

This does not mean the Lord did not want all to be saved or that He has not provided salvation for all as the calvinists have been falsely taught by the devil.



you believe that Jesus did not die for all your sins!

Then the calkvinists lie lie, and continue lying about everyone that does not believe like they do.

I never said that, so your statement is not true and you know it.



Try reading the Bible.

If they did that they would discover calvinism is doctrines of demons and their fellow calvinists would give them the left foot of fellowship so they couldn't go to the pot luck suppers anymore and they'd get kicked off of the calvinist softball team!

So, no can do.
 

Ronald Nolette

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That "hokey definition" came from the Apostle Paul in Galatians chapter 4 and Romans chapter 8.

Try reading the Bible.
I do and Paul did not give your definition of adoption. Adoption in the time of Jesus meant one who was not a family member became a family member and their past life was erased from the public records.

I have been reading teh bible for fifty years now and I also read historical books on teh culture and times when Jesus lived.
 

Davy

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That does not disqualify one from being saved.

Following men's pre-trib rapture theory may not prevent one from being saved, ultimately, but it can place one in shame when Jesus does return. Because man's false pre-trib rapture theory is designed to lead one to believe on the coming false-Messiah that will appear at the end first. Those who do will appear in shame when Jesus does appear afterwards, and Lord Jesus even warned us about that...

Rev 16:15-17
15
Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
KJV


Jesus admonished us to 'watch', meaning the SIGNS of the end He gave in His Olivet discourse leading up to His future return, and that so we would not be deceived. In that He gave the timing of His future coming to gather His saints being AFTER the tribulation.

That idea above with His warning us to watch, and keep our garments (of white robes promised His faithful), is about not falling away to the coming pseudo-Christ He warned there which is coming first to work great signs and wonders that will be so powerful in deception, that it might deceive even His very elect (Matthew 24:23-26).

Then the part about, "lest he walk naked, and they see his shame," is about those of His servants that fall away to that false-Messiah instead, and when Jesus does appear after the trib, those who fall away will appear spiritually naked and in shame. No white garments for them.


The false pre-trib rapture WILL guarantee Lord Jesus SHUTTING THE DOOR on those when He returns, like Matthew 7:21-23. Why would Lord Jesus do that to any believer on Him? It will be because of their heeding men's doctrines that will lead them to bow to the coming false-Messiah who appears on earth first in place of Jesus Christ. So if you keep men's false pre-trib rapture theory instead of heeding what Jesus showed for the time of His future return, then don't expect to be received when He comes. Only Christ's faithful will go into the marriage supper with Him.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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Following men's pre-trib rapture theory may not prevent one from being saved, ultimately, but it can place one in shame when Jesus does return. Because man's false pre-trib rapture theory is designed to lead one to believe on the coming false-Messiah that will appear at the end first. Those who do will appear in shame when Jesus does appear afterwards, and Lord Jesus even warned us about that...

I don't follow the pre-trib rapture thinking because God's Word actually teaches pre-wrath rapture.

Yes it is true that those believing we will be gone before the man of sin is revealed to the world are very likely to follow him because initially he will bring peace and seemingly have answers to all the world's problem during the first 3.5 years of the tribulation during which time things will be mostly peaceful and he will deceive the majority of people in the world in to following him.

And you know all the big time preachers and ministries will all be saying this guy was sent of God to bless the world and those believing OSAS will go ahead and take the mark of the beast because they think doing so is not counted as blaspheming the Holy Spirit which Jesus apparently counts that as blaspheming the Holy Spirit according to Revelation 14:10-11

Those that take the mark will go to hell even if they are Christians

Revelation 14:10-11
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.


Those taking the mark are NOT hearing the voice of Jesus and are NOT following Him so they disqualify themselves from what Jesus promised in John 10:27-28 meaning nobody snatched them out of the Father's hand, no they turned away from the Father and walked away of their own free will due to listening to the devil instead of the Lord.
 

Nameaboveallnames

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I have been reading teh bible for fifty years now and I also read historical books on teh culture and times when Jesus lived.
You had better do some more reading. This should help:
Here are some pertinent excerpts from the article:
A Roman boy's rite of passage, a ceremony or ritual marking a transitional period in life from childhood to adulthood, was the assuming of the toga virilis, the adult toga. The ceremony usually took place sometime between the boy's 14th and 17th birthday; the decision was made by the boy's father or guardian.
A boy in his early teens was still under the supervision of his pedagogue, who would also have accompanied him outside of the home.
The decision of what age a boy was ready for the rite of passage and to be enrolled as a citizen was taken by his father or guardian, but the ceremony tended to happen between a boy's 14th and 17th birthday.
The Apostle Paul was a Roman citizen (Acts 22:25-29), and he was very familiar with the Roman customs of his day. In Paul's day, "adoption" was a coming-of-age ceremony, and this is recognizable if we simply look to the meaning of the word "adoption" in the underlying Greek of the New Testament. The underlying Greek word that is translated into English as "adoption" is "huiothesia,"
and that word is a compound of two other Greek words, "huios,"
which means "son," and "tithēmi,"
which means "to place." Therefore, the word "adoption" in Paul's day literally meant "to place as a son," and the context in which Paul used this word tells us exactly what he meant.

As I showed in the excerpts from the article that I linked to, in Paul's day, a Roman boy was under a pedagogue or schoolmaster until the time of his coming-of-age ceremony. His father determined exactly when that time was, and during his "adoption" ceremony, he donned a "toga virilis" or a "toga of manhood" as he was now deemed to be an adult son in society. This coming-of-age ceremony is exactly was Paul was referring to in his epistle to the Galatians. There, we read:

"Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ." (Gal. 4:1-7)

In the same manner that a Roman boy was under a pedagogue or schoolmaster until the time of his father's choosing when he received the classification as a adult son, we were once under the schoolmaster of "the law" (Gal. 3:24-25) until the time came that God the Father sent forth his Son to redeem us that we might receive the status of adult sons ourselves in God's eyes.

^^^THIS^^^ is what Paul was talking about, and not our modern-day understanding of the word "adoption." In Paul's day, this coming-of-age ceremony was marked by a boy putting on his "toga virilis." For Christians, this coming-of-age ceremony is marked by us "putting on Christ" (Gal. 3:27).

Who has ears to hear, let them hear.

P.S.

This biblical and historical truth is what you previously called my "hokey definition" in your ignorance. I would repent before God for that if I were you.
 
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Calvin taught that there is nothing one can do to be saved because God has already decided who is going to be saved and who is not going to be saved. John Calvin twisted the meaning of Ephesians 1:4-5.

His interpretation of these two verses caused him to ask, “Does this passage teach that our salvation is strictly a matter of God’s arbitrary election before the world was made, irrespective of any choice that we might exercise in the matter?”

According to John Calvin, this passage teaches exactly that. The Presbyterian Westminster Confession of Faith stated: “By decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestined unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death.” (Article III).

Thus, we have the damnable heresy of predestination. This doctrine is at the core of Calvinism and its influence is widely felt throughout much of christendom and has influenced people that claim to not be calvinists.
“Having predestined us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of His will…” — Ephesians 1:5

Yes—God chooses. But God also calls all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). Jesus said, “Whosoever will, let him come” (Revelation 22:17).

The issue isn’t whether predestination is biblical. It is. The question is: How do we interpret it in light of the entire counsel of God?

Calvin went too far in turning God’s sovereignty into fatalism. But dismissing election altogether is just as dangerous.

God doesn’t damn people arbitrarily—He desires all to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4).
But He also knew, before time, who would believe (Romans 8:29).

We must hold both truths in tension:

1. God is sovereign.


2. Man is responsible.



That’s not heresy. That’s the mystery of mercy.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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For Christians, this coming-of-age ceremony is marked by us "putting on Christ" (Gal. 3:27).

Which they should be taught to do immediately after getting born again if they are to be considered righteous

Those not putting off the old man and putting on the new man are still walking after the flesh which is continued walking in un-righteousness

Very few churches today teach people to put off the old man and put the new man on

Ephesians 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

They'll tell people who believe Ephesians 4:24 they are arrogant, full of pride, and think they are better than everyone else and otherwise discourage them from walking in righteousness telling them they are still sorry no good dirty sinners!
 
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