THE CHURCH IS NOT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

[GracePeace]

I didnt say you did but others do........I was just reiterating my points

OK I just wanted to make sure you weren't objecting to the idea that they preached the same Gospel as a means of trying to preserve Israel--again, I don't really know what is motivating your insistence that they preached different Gospels.

 

[GracePeace]

Paul preached to Jew and Gentile

Yeah, and Paul identifies the Jews he preaches to, and who believe, as "the remnant of Israel" (Ro 11).

LOL Well, it was fun while it lasted, but you're done.

 

[GracePeace]

I have been confused about this verse for a long time, but I think this is right sister, nail on the head.........and I believe the fullness of the Gentiles being spoken about must refer to the Gentiles becoming saved and established in the gospel............so that then they could show mercy to Israel through the preaching of the gospel to them......as it says here:

Rom 11:30

For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!


I'm so grateful to have this sorted out and resolved!

I'm your brother, and I am glad it's sorted out.
Please do pray for me, so that, by God's grace, He will be glorified in every aspect of my life.

 

[Lizbeth]

Israel was called that when the congregation was in the wilderness but during Christ's earthly ministry they are called just the church or Paul called it the church of God
There are no others verses that mention the Israel of God so to say it is the church is not supported

We need the Holy Spirit to give us eyes to see, brother. Scripture says to lean not to our own understanding....but rely on the Holy Spirit. And that the natural man cannot perceive the things of God for they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Marilyn C]

Actually it is only one body . it consists of believing in JESUS jews and gentiles .
And others not of this fold i must bring
and they shall be ONE FOLD , With ONE SHEPARD .
Its only one body my dear friend . all outside of it shall wail on the DAY of the LORD .
basically we gots two adams . All outside of CHRIST , as even we once were , are of the old adam
But all within the body of Christ are of the second adam WHO IS the LORD from heaven .
Aint that lovely . ITS JESUS pointing time .
As far as to whoever made this original thread that said the church is not the bride ,
someone is in deadly error on that one .
And he shewed me the lambs wife . now let us read revelation and see who is this wife .
The beleivers of all tribes and the jews who BELEIVED ON JESUS the CHRIST .
That is your body , that is the wife and the bride of Christ .
THE TRUE JERUSALEM is above wherein the temple is GOD and the lamb and the beleivers in CHRIST
are the wee tiny stones fitted into this TEMPLE .
OH its a beauty all right . For ye have come unto MOUNT ZION , the HEAVENLY JERUSALEM .
That be your Israel of GOD . not all of israel is OF ISRAEL . people needs to get busy
procliaming CHRIST JESUS to all , while there still be time to do so . cause the DOOR will shut
and when it do ALL outside shall wail .

One Fold is all under Christ not all in one group. If all God wanted was the Body of Christ He could have made it 6 centuries ago.

Mount Zion AND the city. Two parts to the heavenly Jerusalem.

Mount Zion - Christ`s seat of Power and authority (Ps. 2: 6) and where the Body of Christ will rule with Him. (Rev. 3: 21)

The City - the Old Testament Saints were promised the city. (Heb. 11: 16)

 

[Marilyn C]

Any souls who were righteous and God fearing before Christ was crucified (eg, some are written about in the bible such as Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Ruth, Moses, Joshua, prophets etc) are included in this where it says: "they without us would not be made perfect". Jesus descended into the place of the dead and preached the gospel to these and they were resurrected when he was...to my understanding that was the first resurrection which we who believe have a part in. The earlier saints are all included in Christ, with the church that is alive.

Sister we have been taught wrong. Jesus Christ is ruling and reigning now and His people are reigning with Him as more than conquerors through Him. This age of grace now is the "1000" year reign of Christ and it is by faith not by sight...remember Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world, it comes not with our careful observation. And every time a soul is saved or someone is healed, or a demon cast out, or miracle of any kind, we see evidence of His kingdom rule being enforced. Jesus told the religious leaders in Luke 11:20 , "If I by the finger of God cast out devils then no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you". And read 2Peter 3 carefully with fresh eyes....the thousand years is the time of longsuffering which we are to account as salvation....the time of grace to get souls saved....the world as it is will burn up upon His return in wrath. And in 1 Corinthians 15 it says Jesus will turn the kingdom back over to the Father when He returns, so He will not be ruling and reigning as such any more after that but God will be all in all. It's very important that we look at Rev through the lens of the scriptures that came before it, rather than trying to work backwards and wrest the earlier scrips to try to force them to fit what we have thought Rev was saying. The current popular understanding of Rev contradicts so many other scriptures so it can't be right.

`God having provided SOMETHING BETTER for us, that they should not be made perfect without us.` (Heb. 11: 40)

The Body of Christ will rule from the highest, (Rev. 3: 21) and later the Old Testament saints will go down in the city to the Universal realm. We, the Body of Christ had to be in place first, then the OT Saints will be made perfect and receive their inheritance.

From Ps. 110: 1 we see that the Lord is at the Fathee`s right hand waiting TILL His enemies have been made His footstool. In Hebrews we read that the Lord is in the heavenly Temple behind the veil, interceding for us (Heb. 6: 19, 7: 25).

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

The City - the Old Testament Saints were promised the city. (Heb. 11: 16)

In the end Christians and believing Jews will both inhabit The City when God moves Heaven to earth

 

[Lizbeth]

`God having provided SOMETHING BETTER for us, that they should not be made perfect without us.` (Heb. 11: 40)

The Body of Christ will rule from the highest, (Rev. 3: 21) and later the Old Testament saints will go down in the city to the Universal realm. We, the Body of Christ had to be in place first, then the OT Saints will be made perfect and receive their inheritance.

From Ps. 110: 1 we see that the Lord is at the Fathee`s right hand waiting TILL His enemies have been made His footstool. In Hebrews we read that the Lord is in the heavenly Temple behind the veil, interceding for us (Heb. 6: 19, 7: 25).

Yes, they would not be made complete without us, ie, complete in Christ, like we are. Christ and His new covenant is that "something better", the promise that hadn't come for them yet. And if we can see it, this passage also lets us know that "we" and "they" are one....they are "not without us".

 

[Doug]

Well, if Peter was abiding in Christ, how is Peter not considered to be in the body of Christ? LOL!

[Jhn 15:4 KJV] 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Jesus told the disciples to abide in him
Paul never tells this to the body
John happened before the body was even formed mid acts

 

[Doug]

So, if the remnant of Israel is "in Christ", why are they not "the body of Christ"?

Because they are two different churches
There are three churches in scripture.........the church in the wilderness......the church of God of the remnant........the body of Christ

 

[Doug]

What do you think it means to be "in Christ"?

[1Co 15:22 KJV] 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

 

[Doug]

Pauls gospel . IT wasnt any different than peters , jude , james , john , OR CHRIST .
THEY ALL preached the very one and self same gospel .
SO perhaps your statement should read
ONLY THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN THE GOSPEL are the BODY of CHRIST and all else are STILL IN DARKNESS , bondage and death .

Jesus's gospel.................[Mar 1:15 KJV] 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Peter's gospel...........[Act 2:38 KJV] 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
John's gospel........................[Jhn 20:31 KJV] 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Nothing of the cross ,,,,,,,,,,,,not all the same are they?

 

[Doug]

The other Apostles were just as important as Paul who did not have some special gospel the others didn't have.

They all taught the Doctrine of Christ and they all wrote what Jesus told them to write!

Peter and the disciples were chosen by Christ and gave them their apostleship's and the gospel and commandments which were valid in their dispensation
Jesus gave Paul his apostleship and the gospel for this dispensation...............[1Co 9:17 KJV] 17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation [of the gospel] is committed unto me.

Mankind must believe God ,,,,,,,,,Israel had to believe what was preached to them......we have to believe what Paul preaches and teaches

 

[rebuilder 454]

Yes, the `her` is in those scriptures referring to the wife. So when did we marry Jesus?

The `her` is NOT in the Eph. 5: 27 scripture.

And BBJ, do you know what doctrine is? What it is based on? Certainly not an exhortation, or Paul talking to his disciple saying he wants to present them to the Lord,. He will not present us to the Lord for it is the Lord Himself who will do that. (Jude 24)

Really nothing to see there about this so called doctrine.

In Rev 19, the bride has become the wife.
Read Hosea.
Gomer represents the Jewish wife.
Read Ruth.
The Gentile bride and Ruth inherit together.
Boaz representing Jesus.

The last supper VIVIDLY illustrated the Jewish proposal and betrothal covenant between the groom and his bride.

Matt 25 is a VIVID portrayal of the wedding between Jesus and his bride/church.

The first miracle of Jesus incarnation was at a wedding.
The last thing with his church/ betrothed bride on earth is a gathering to a wedding.

The church is the bride of Christ.
Let no man unvert it, or pervert it.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Jesus's gospel.................[Mar 1:15 KJV] 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Peter's gospel...........[Act 2:38 KJV] 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
John's gospel........................[Jhn 20:31 KJV] 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Nothing of the cross ,,,,,,,,,,,,not all the same are they?

...all of them preached salvation through Jesus.
Your hyper Paul teachers have lied to you big time!!!!

 

[Doug]

How could Paul not be part of the "remnant of Israel"?

Paul rejected Christ and persecuted the remnant
Paul says he will inherit a heavenly kingdom not an earthly kingdom like the remnant....................[2Ti 4:18 KJV] 18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve [me] unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[rebuilder 454]

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Paul here is not saying the church, the body of Christ, is the bride of Christ. Paul is using espousal to illustrate the faithfulness and purity of the church unto Christ Jesus.

[2Corinthians 11:3-4 KJV] 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].

In the above verses Paul is admonishing the church for following other apostles and another gospel. He was exhorting them to remain faithful to Christ as they received him from Paul.

[Ephesians 5:23, 32 KJV] 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. ... 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

The relationship the church has with Christ is expressed by marriage. Christ is the head of the church just as the husband is head of the wife.

[Isaiah 62:4-5 KJV] 4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married. 5 For [as] a young man marrieth a virgin, [so] shall thy sons marry thee: and [as] the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, [so] shall thy God rejoice over thee.

[Isaiah 54:5 KJV] 5 For thy Maker [is] thine husband; the LORD of hosts [is] his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

[Hosea 2:19-20 KJV] 19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies. 20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.

A number of verses express a marriage relationship with Israel as seen above.

[Revelation 21:2, 9-10 KJV] 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. ... 9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

The holy city, the new Jerusalem is described as being the bride, the lamb's wife; this is the bride of Christ, not the church, the body of Christ.

[Rev 21:12 KJV] 12 And had a wall great and high, [and] had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are [the names] of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

The twelve tribes of Israel are written on the gates.

[Rev 21:14 KJV] 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

The names of the twelve apostles of Israel are written in the foundations.

[Rev 21:24 KJV] 24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

Some Gentile nations will be saved to enter the kingdom on earth depending on how they treated Israel in the tribulation (Matthew 25:31-34); the nations that will enter the holy city will do so as a result of the ministry of the priesthood of believing Israel in the kingdom on earth (Zechariah 8:22-23 Exodus 19:6 Revelation 5:10 20:6).

Quote:
"The holy city, the new Jerusalem is described as being the bride, the lamb's wife; this is the bride of Christ, not the church, the body of Christ."

Man....this is flat out bizarre, where your doctrine is taking you.
Really??????
Now that Pauline doctrine has to muddy up who the bride is?????

 

[Doug]

Paul is definitely an Israelite, and he's definitely part of the remnant that is preserved and not lost, so... what is the issue?

Being an Israelite doesnt mean he cant be in the body of Christ.........the body is made of Jew and Gentile (they are made one new man however)

 

[Lizbeth]

One Fold is all under Christ not all in one group. If all God wanted was the Body of Christ He could have made it 6 centuries ago.

Mount Zion AND the city. Two parts to the heavenly Jerusalem.

Mount Zion - Christ`s seat of Power and authority (Ps. 2: 6) and where the Body of Christ will rule with Him. (Rev. 3: 21)

The City - the Old Testament Saints were promised the city. (Heb. 11: 16)

The Jerusalem (city) that is above is our mother as the apostle wrote. He got this from the OT scripture that says we are born in Zion..."this one and that one were born in her"...Zion being referred to as a "her" because she is a mother. They are both allegories for the same thing, which we must understand that it is not a literal city or mount, they are just allegories for Christ and His collective church/body and kingdom in heaven, ie, heavenly. It is a city on a hill/mount (Zion)...because being spiritual/heavenly it is higher than the earthly

 

[Lizbeth]

Jesus's gospel.................[Mar 1:15 KJV] 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Peter's gospel...........[Act 2:38 KJV] 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
John's gospel........................[Jhn 20:31 KJV] 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Nothing of the cross ,,,,,,,,,,,,not all the same are they?

I'm afraid you are dangerously deceived.

"Now we know no man after the flesh any longer." There is no longer Jew or Gentile as far as God is concerned really, there are only the saved or the lost, which Jew/Gentile were allegories (ensamples) for in the first place. But I am not expecting you will have ears to hear the truth unfortunately.