THE CHURCH IS NOT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

[GracePeace]

To clarify Romans 9-11 is about the remnant of believing Israel and the unbelieving

[Rom 10:12 KJV] 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

This verse pertains to Gentiles who believed as in Acts 10..........................[Act 10:45 KJV] 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

These Gentiles were placed into the believing remnant of israel

The believing Gentiles are remnants of their Gentile nations (the rest of their nations are lost and are being destroyed), they are not remnants of the nation of Israel. They become part of the commonwealth of Israel, yes, but they are categorically not the remnants of the nation of Israel.
LOL

 

[David in NJ]

To clarify Romans 9-11 is about the remnant of believing Israel and the unbelieving

[Rom 10:12 KJV] 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

This verse pertains to Gentiles who believed as in Acts 10..........................[Act 10:45 KJV] 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

These Gentiles were placed into the believing remnant of israel

Which Gospel did Peter preach to the Gentiles, as declared in Acts, to Cornelius

 

[Doug]

Not at all. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God, and there is only one faith, so there is only one message to put faith in.
The "not at all" belongs to your unsubstantiable claim about there being more than one Gospel.
You have many challenges to overcome to prove your claim, and you have overcome exactly zero of them.

What gospel was preached here below?

[Heb 4:2 KJV] 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].

To whom was the gospel preached?.....................Israel in the wilderness............................[Heb 3:16-18 KJV] 16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? [was it] not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

They couldn't have been preached Peter's or Paul's gospel..............the gospel preached to them was to enter the promised land..............Deuteronomy 1:8 Behold, I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give unto them and to their seed after them.

More than one gospel

 

[GracePeace]

What gospel was preached here below?

[Heb 4:2 KJV] 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].

To whom was the gospel preached?.....................Israel in the wilderness............................[Heb 3:16-18 KJV] 16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? [was it] not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

They couldn't have been preached Peter's or Paul's gospel..............the gospel preached to them was to enter the promised land..............Deuteronomy 1:8 Behold, I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give unto them and to their seed after them.

More than one gospel

He's saying that you had better not rebel against God's message of Good News about His Son which you are hearing today, because OTHERS IN THE PAST rebelled against God's message to them (which, in fact, was "good news" to them--that they would inherit a land, etc)--the reason the writer uses the term "Gospel" to describe God's message to them (it is the commonality--both heard God's message, and God's message was glad tidings, or good news, in both cases, just as Abraham was told his offspring would be as numerous as the stars in the heavens was "good news" to him), because he is wanting the audience to make the connection to how their disobedience to God's message of good news today will result in the same disaster as occurred to those who rebelled against God's message of good news to them in the past.

We know they did not know the specific message / Gospel of Christ's death and resurrection, because it had been kept a mystery (Ro 16:25).

 

[Doug]

"Faith" is simply believing what God says, what ever the message is.
Abraham, for example, believed God that his descendants would be numerous as the stars (Gn 15:5,6).
The Gospel was a mystery in the ages past (Ro 16:25).
Today, however, there is one faith--because there is one Gospel, one message from God we are to believe.

Yes faith is believing God and today there is one gospel for us as you say and it's Paul's

 

[GracePeace]

Yes faith is believing God and today there is one gospel for us as you say and it's Paul's

When Paul wrote "one faith", Peter was still around, and those who believed "Peter's Gospel" were still around--again, your story doesn't check out.

 

[Doug]

Waiting for your responses.

I have answered all I can or care to

 

[GracePeace]

I have answered all I can or care to

You mean "uh-oh, my story is falling apart"? LOL!

Matthew 16:18“I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church

According to you, those who hear and believe "Peter's Gospel" become part of "the remnant of Israel", which you say is Christ's bride, whereas those who hear and believe "Paul's Gospel" become part of "the body of Christ", the Church (which just means "assembly" or "congregation"), which you deny is Christ's bride, but "the Church" includes Peter, and is built upon Peter's preaching of the Gospel (ie, it is not true that those who believe his Gospel become "remnant of Israel", Christ's bride, but not "the Church" which is "not Christ's bride"), so how does that work--why is Peter BOTH "the remnant of Israel" AND "the Church", BOTH "Christ's bride" AND "not Christ's bride"?

Your brains don't brain.

 

[Doug]

AGREE = therefore there is Only One LORD and One Gospel

Everyone who is submitted to Christ and filled with the Holy Spirit can preach "their" Gospel message = the One Gospel

How the Holy Spirit communicates thru us will always be the One Gospel.

There is only one gospel today and its Paul's

 

[GracePeace]

I have answered all I can or care to

You said that the Gospel of the remnant of Israel differed from the Gospel of Paul, because their salvation wasn't secure, but our salvation is secure, and you used John 15, which says they could be cut off, to prove this, but "Paul's Gospel" contains the very same warning (Ro 11:17-22), so, do you care to retract your (debunked) claim?

 

[David in NJ]

What gospel was preached here below?

[Heb 4:2 KJV] 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].

To whom was the gospel preached?.....................Israel in the wilderness............................[Heb 3:16-18 KJV] 16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? [was it] not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

They couldn't have been preached Peter's or Paul's gospel..............the gospel preached to them was to enter the promised land..............Deuteronomy 1:8 Behold, I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give unto them and to their seed after them.

More than one gospel

Heb 4:2 - For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them:

Hebrews Says = SAME gospel

 

[GracePeace]

Heb 4:2 - For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them:

Hebrews Says = SAME gospel

He's saying that you had better not rebel against God's message of Good News about His Son which you are hearing today, because OTHERS IN THE PAST rebelled against God's message to them (which, in fact, was "good news" to them--that they would inherit a land, etc)--the reason the writer uses the term "Gospel" to describe God's message to them (it is the commonality--both heard God's message, and God's message was glad tidings, or good news, in both cases, just as Abraham was told his offspring would be as numerous as the stars in the heavens was "good news" to him), because he is wanting the audience to make the connection to how their disobedience to God's message of good news today will result in the same disaster as occurred to those who rebelled against God's message of good news to them in the past.

We know they did not know the specific message / Gospel of Christ's death and resurrection, because it had been kept a mystery (Ro 16:25).

 

[Doug]

@Doug Matthew 16:18“I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church

According to you, those who hear and believe "Peter's Gospel" become part of "the remnant of Israel", which you say is Christ's bride, whereas those who hear and believe "Paul's Gospel" become part of "the body of Christ", the Church (which just means "assembly" or "congregation"), which you deny is Christ's bride, but "the Church" includes Peter, and is built upon Peter's preaching of the Gospel (ie, it is not true that those who believe his Gospel become "remnant of Israel", Christ's bride, but not "the Church" which is "not Christ's bride"), so how does that work--why is Peter BOTH "the remnant of Israel" AND "the Church", BOTH "Christ's bride" AND "not Christ's bride"?

Your brains don't brain.

The believing remnant of Israel was Christ's church.........it was the church of God Paul persecuted.....................[1Co 15:9 KJV] 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

 

[David in NJ]

the SAME gospel was preached to Abraham by God Himself

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. - Galatians 3:8

@GracePeace @Doug

 

[Doug]

Because he was humble enough to want to verify it, because he got it by private revelation, not from men.

Galatians doesnt say he verified it.....it says he communicated it to them

 

[GracePeace]

the SAME gospel was preached to Abraham by God Himself

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. - Galatians 3:8

@GracePeace @Doug

Romans 16:25 says the Gospel was kept a mystery, so, no, it could not have been the same Gospel. They had hints, etc, but it was kept a mystery in ages past.
Gospel means "good news", so, yes, they heard "good news" (Abraham heard that he would have innumerable offspring, etc), but it was not the specific message we heard--even Hebrews 11 says they were just but not perfected until the new covenant, so something different happened with Christ than what had previously happened with what ever they believed.

 

[GracePeace]

Galatians doesnt say he verified it.....it says he communicated it to them

The purpose was to make sure he hadn't run in vain--to verify his Gospel was accurate.
How could he do that? By asking those who would have known best what the Gospel was.

 

[GracePeace]

The believing remnant of Israel was Christ's church.........it was the church of God Paul persecuted.....................[1Co 15:9 KJV] 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

The title of the thread is "the Church is not the bride of Christ".
Who, in your view, is "the bride of Christ"?

 

[Doug]

Because Jesus already said He was sending Paul to the nations (Acts 9:15).

[Mat 28:19 KJV] 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
The twelve were sent to the nations also

 

[GracePeace]

[Mat 28:19 KJV] 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
The twelve were sent to the nations also

So? Israel is a nation--Peter was apparently mainly sent to Israel, Paul was sent to non-Israel nations.
Thomas apparently went to India.