THE CHURCH IS NOT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

[Doug]

Acts 2:38

water baptism was for the remission of sins and so was his name

[Mar 1:4 KJV] 4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
[Luk 24:47 KJV] 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

 

[GracePeace]

water baptism was for the remission of sins and so was his name

[Mar 1:4 KJV] 4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
[Luk 24:47 KJV] 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Yes. "remission" there is the Greek word "ἄφεσιν", which means "forgiveness", so there's no issue with anything I said--ie, when Peter preached forgiveness of sins, it is the same message as Paul saying "justification", because justification is by righteousness, and the righteousness he preaches that is apart from works he defines as "being forgiven" (Ro 4:6-8).

 

[Doug]

When Peter preaches Christ's sacrifice, he preaches God's forgiveness.

You are reading what Paul says about forgiveness into what Peter says

 

[Doug]

Jesus was speaking to His disciples at the time, but it was written down for all our (the whole church's) edification.

Yes we can learn from all scripture

 

[Doug]

The law of Christ = "If you love ME, keep MY commandments"

Jesus taught upholding the law

[Mat 5:19 KJV] 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Doug]

Yeah, Jesus is the offspring of David, and is the King of the Jews, the Christ (Messiah).
What's the problem?

The problem is you said when Peter said he was raised to sit on the throne it applied to him being Messiah........he is Messiah but that verse wasnt dealing with that.....it was saying he would come to establish the kingdom because he is alive

 

[GracePeace]

You are reading what Paul says about forgiveness into what Peter says

How so?
Paul defines "righteousness apart from works" as "being forgiven" (Ro 4:6-8), and it is based upon this righteousness that we are justified (Ro 5:1).

On the contrary, it is yourself who is baselessly seeing a mutual exclusivity between Paul and Peter.

 

[David in NJ]

Romans 16:25 says the Gospel was kept a mystery, so, no, it could not have been the same Gospel. They had hints, etc, but it was kept a mystery in ages past.
Gospel means "good news", so, yes, they heard "good news" (Abraham heard that he would have innumerable offspring, etc), but it was not the specific message we heard--even Hebrews 11 says they were just but not perfected until the new covenant, so something different happened with Christ than what had previously happened with what ever they believed.

Same gospel that God preached to Abraham but later REVEALED in FULLNESS = "unto us"/Hebrews

Evidence: Same gospel Prophesied by God to Satan IN the GARDEN = Genesis 3:15

OT saints who believed the Word of God, believed in HIM who would come from Above = MESSIAH
Evidence: JESUS Says: "Abraham rejoiced to SEE My Day"

Evidence: Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into. - 1 Peter 1:10-12

Not being "revealed" does not negate the fact that "God Preached the Gospel beforehand"

 

[GracePeace]

The problem is you said when Peter said he was raised to sit on the throne it applied to him being Messiah........he is Messiah but that verse wasnt dealing with that.....it was saying he would come to establish the kingdom because he is alive

What does it mean to be David's seed reigning as Israel's King? That he's the Messiah. That's at least part of Peter's point. He also does a homily on "raise up your seed", because, obviously, God just meant that David would have a seed reigning from the throne, but Peter riffs on the word "raise", connecting it to Christ's having been "raised" from the dead. Either way, there's no issue. Peter preaches Jesus was raised from the dead, and he preaches that Jesus is the seed God promised He would raise for David to sit on David's throne--ie, that Jesus is the Christ. No issue.

 

[GracePeace]

Same gospel that God preached to Abraham but later REVEALED in FULLNESS = "unto us"/Hebrews

Same gospel Prophesied by God to Satan IN the GARDEN = Genesis 3:15

OT saints who believed the Word of God, believed in HIM who would come from Above = MESSIAH

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into. - 1 Peter 1:10-12

Not being "revealed" does not negate the FACT that "God Preached the Gospel beforehand"

They were just but not perfected, meaning that they had not partaken, meaning they were not privy to Christ's death and resurrection.

Hebrews 11
39And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.
Hebrews 12
23... and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect...

 

[David in NJ]

They were just but not perfected, meaning that they had not partaken, meaning they were not privy to Christ's death and resurrection.

Hebrews 11
39And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.
Hebrews 12
23... and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect...

being made perfect is a direct reference to............"God had provided something better for us".......which is.........

 

[David in NJ]

They were just but not perfected, meaning that they had not partaken, meaning they were not privy to Christ's death and resurrection.

Hebrews 11
39And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.
Hebrews 12
23... and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect...

Post 528 UPdated

 

[GracePeace]

being made perfect is a direct reference to............"God had provided something better for us".......which is.........

Which is what?
The Gospel was kept a mystery in the past (Ro 16:25), which was why none of the Apostles understood that he had to die and be raised--neither did anyone else in the past. The messages they believed were definitely God's Word, but the message about His Son dying and rising as a sacrifice for our sins was kept hidden.

 

[Doug]

Which Gospel did Peter preach to the Gentiles, as declared in Acts, to Cornelius

[Act 10:43 KJV] 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

It was thru his name that Israel was saved

 

[GracePeace]

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Paul here is not saying the church, the body of Christ, is the bride of Christ. Paul is using espousal to illustrate the faithfulness and purity of the church unto Christ Jesus.

[2Corinthians 11:3-4 KJV] 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].

In the above verses Paul is admonishing the church for following other apostles and another gospel. He was exhorting them to remain faithful to Christ as they received him from Paul.

[Ephesians 5:23, 32 KJV] 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. ... 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

The relationship the church has with Christ is expressed by marriage. Christ is the head of the church just as the husband is head of the wife.

[Isaiah 62:4-5 KJV] 4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married. 5 For [as] a young man marrieth a virgin, [so] shall thy sons marry thee: and [as] the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, [so] shall thy God rejoice over thee.

[Isaiah 54:5 KJV] 5 For thy Maker [is] thine husband; the LORD of hosts [is] his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

[Hosea 2:19-20 KJV] 19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies. 20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.

A number of verses express a marriage relationship with Israel as seen above.

[Revelation 21:2, 9-10 KJV] 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. ... 9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

The holy city, the new Jerusalem is described as being the bride, the lamb's wife; this is the bride of Christ, not the church, the body of Christ.

[Rev 21:12 KJV] 12 And had a wall great and high, [and] had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are [the names] of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

The twelve tribes of Israel are written on the gates.

[Rev 21:14 KJV] 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

The names of the twelve apostles of Israel are written in the foundations.

[Rev 21:24 KJV] 24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

Some Gentile nations will be saved to enter the kingdom on earth depending on how they treated Israel in the tribulation (Matthew 25:31-34); the nations that will enter the holy city will do so as a result of the ministry of the priesthood of believing Israel in the kingdom on earth (Zechariah 8:22-23 Exodus 19:6 Revelation 5:10 20:6).

So, if the bride of Christ is Israel, not the Church, why does Christ say He will build His Church upon Peter--making Peter both part of Christ's bride ("Israel"), and not part of Christ's bride ("the Church")?

 

[Doug]

We know they did not know the specific message / Gospel of Christ's death and resurrection, because it had been kept a mystery (Ro 16:25).

So you are saying there is more than one gospel since they had one but it wasnt Paul's

 

[Doug]

When Paul wrote "one faith", Peter was still around, and those who believed "Peter's Gospel" were still around--again, your story doesn't check out.

Peter wasnt heard from again after Acts 15 so their gospel was being diminished and Paul's was to be considered the gospel for this dispensation

 

[GracePeace]

So you are saying there is more than one gospel since they had one but it wasnt Paul's

Not at all--I'm saying that, in general, when God speaks to makind, it is good news (when Abraham is told that he will have offspring as numerous as the stars of the heavens, that was the good news to him; when Noah was told God would destroy the earth, but that he would be preserved through the Ark, that was good news, etc), but TODAY God's good news throughout the ages has culminated in God's good news about His Son Ro 1:3, which is a singular message for all humanity to believe.

 

[GracePeace]

Peter wasnt heard from again after Acts 15 so their gospel was being diminished and Paul's was to be considered the gospel for this dispensation

It does not follow from prominence or loss or prominence of this or that preacher that their messages differed--non-sequitur. You have to actually prove the claim.

 

[Titus]

These Gentiles were placed into the believing remnant of israel

To clarify,
You now have Jews and gentiles being saved under Peter's gospel, then gentiles being saved under Paul's gospel.

So there is two gospels for gentiles and one gospel for jews.

I thank God His plan for saving man is not overly complicated and as confusing as your misinterpretation.

From Acts 2 to revelation all were saved in the new testament gospel of Jesus Christ.

God made it plain that Jews and Gentiles would be saved no differently.
Both were saved by the same gospel.

No one from Acts 2 on were under the law of Moses.
Not one jew that obeyed Jesus' gospel was bound by the old testament law.
The old law was fulfilled, brought to completion when Jesus died and ressurected.

Acts 15:5-11 ; 24,
- but there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed saying that it was needful to circumcise the  gentiles and to command them to keep the law of Moses

- and the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter

- and when there had been much disputing Peter rose up and said unto them, men and brethren ye know that a good while ago God made choice among the gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel and believe

- and God which knoweth the hearts bare them witness giving them the Holy Spirit even as He did unto us(proof God from the beginning would save the gentiles just as the jews)

- and putting no difference between us and them purifying their hearts by faith(gospel)

- now brethren why tempt God to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear

- but we(apostles) that through the  grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we(jews) shall be saved even as they(gentiles)


God saves them both exactly the same!!!

Now listen to the apostles final answer to gentiles being forced to keep the law of Moses.

Verse 24,
- for as much as we have heard that certain which went out from among us(apostles) have troubled you with words subverting your souls saying ye must be circumcised and keep the law of Moses,
TO WHOM WE GAVE NO SUCH COMMANDMENT


No one from Acts 2 onward was under the old testament when they heard the gospel preached by Peter.

None of the gentiles in Acts were saved under the old law.
They were all saved by ONE gospel under the new covenant.