Unlike Amillennialism, Premillennialism is based on assumptions and speculation rather than on any clear, straightforward scriptures

[Taken]

What is the point of these questions?

@covenantee
@WPM

(And others) particularly (anti-rapture)…
Revealing…Claiming…Saying…
“Ya, Ya, “they are”…soul saved, spirit quickened,”
”crucified with Jesus”…” but not really”.
(Giggle, Giggle, tee hee)

Obviously… WITHOUT belief, trust, understanding, WHAT
Forgiveness,
Crucify,
Conversion,
Baptism of the Lamb of God,
Christs Indwelling Spirit,
a man IN Christ,
Saints,
A new creature,
Delivered,
Escaped,
Christs Redemption,
A Closed Door,
MEANS.

 

[Taken]

Why not quote relevant Scripture?


Your bodily crucifixion is irrelevant, meaningless, and blasphemous.

Have quoted you Scripture… can Quote you Umpteen Scriptures…

Can NOT spiritually Understand Scripture FOR YOU!!!

Understanding Scripture Spiritually…. oNLY Comes unto a man FROM the Lord God Himself.

Your comment…

Your bodily crucifixion is irrelevant, meaningless, and blasphemous.

Reveals you are without Spiritual Understanding…. And have NOT a clue HOW a mans body can BE Dead…Yet Alive, called a saint, and present on Earth among in the Sight of other men on Earth.

 

[covenantee]

Have quoted you Scripture… can Quote you Umpteen Scriptures…

Can NOT spiritually Understand Scripture FOR YOU!!!

Understanding Scripture Spiritually…. oNLY Comes unto a man FROM the Lord God Himself.

Your comment…



Reveals you are without Spiritual Understanding…. And have NOT a clue HOW a mans body can BE Dead…Yet Alive, called a saint, and present on Earth among in the Sight of other men on Earth.

Show us the nail prints of your bodily crucifixion.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

@covenantee
@WPM

(And others) particularly (anti-rapture)…
Revealing…Claiming…Saying…
“Ya, Ya, “they are”…soul saved, spirit quickened,”
”crucified with Jesus”…” but not really”.
(Giggle, Giggle, tee hee)

What in the world are you saying here? Have you never taken an English class?

Obviously… WITHOUT belief, trust, understanding, WHAT
Forgiveness,
Crucify,
Conversion,
Baptism of the Lamb of God,
Christs Indwelling Spirit,
a man IN Christ,
Saints,
A new creature,
Delivered,
Escaped,
Christs Redemption,
A Closed Door,
MEANS.

Where do you get the idea that I don't know what those things mean?

You are trying to turn something simple into something very convoluted. If what you believed was true, then no one else but you could believe it because you can't even clearly explain what it is that you believe. The truth is not complicated.

Look at the second post of this thread and address what I said there and the scriptures I referenced there. It seems lie you'd rather talk about anything else but the topic of this thread.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Have quoted you Scripture… can Quote you Umpteen Scriptures…

Can NOT spiritually Understand Scripture FOR YOU!!!

Understanding Scripture Spiritually…. oNLY Comes unto a man FROM the Lord God Himself.

Your comment…



Reveals you are without Spiritual Understanding…. And have NOT a clue HOW a mans body can BE Dead…Yet Alive, called a saint, and present on Earth among in the Sight of other men on Earth.

What makes you say this nonsense when you haven't even given him a chance to explain how he understands things? You don't even explain what you're talking about, so how can he address it? Do you think he disagrees with what is taught in these passages...

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

I'm sure he agrees with what these passages teach. Do you understand what these passages teach? Tell me what you think they mean. You come across like you think we are somehow literally bodily crucified with Christ. Is that what you believe? Being bodily crucified results in your body being literally dead and that is not what those passages are talking about.

 

[Taken]

Show us the nail prints of your bodily crucifixion.

You asking for something to satisfy your NATURAL Carnal Understanding (giggle)… simply Reveals…you have not the understanding / meaning of being bodily crucified with Jesus.

 

[covenantee]

You asking for something to satisfy your NATURAL Carnal Understanding (giggle)… simply Reveals…you have not the understanding / meaning of being bodily crucified with Jesus.

Give us your definition of "bodily".

Then give us the dictionary definition of "bodily".

Then show us the bodily evidence of your claimed bodily crucifixion.

Then stop trying to contort Jesus' crucifixion to fit your own misguided malinterpretations.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You asking for something to satisfy your NATURAL Carnal Understanding (giggle)… simply Reveals…you have not the understanding / meaning of being bodily crucified with Jesus.

Stop wasting everyone's time with things that don't relate to the topic of the thread and address what I wrote in the second post of this thread. Why do you not want to address the topic of the thread? You are proving that what I said is true. Premil is not based on clear, straightforward scriptures. It's based on assumptions and speculation instead.

 

[Taken]

What makes you say this nonsense when you haven't even given him a chance to explain how he understands things? You don't even explain what you're talking about, so how can he address it? Do you think he disagrees with what is taught in these passages...

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

I'm sure he agrees with what these passages teach. Do you understand what these passages teach? Tell me what you think they mean.

You come across like you think we are somehow literally bodily crucified with Christ. Is that what you believe? Being bodily crucified results in your body being literal dead and that is not what those passages are talking about.

Literally Bodily Dead… According to Gods Works / WAY WHICH ARE SPIRITUAL…
Absolutely!

And UNTIL a man’s OWN BODY IS “Raised up”… such a man LIVES …
I’m Jesus’ Risen Body..
Uh…. “IN Christ” ring a bell?

Gal 2:
[20] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Men Crucified With Jesus…Wait TO See what their New Body Shall Look like…. wHEN their body is Risen up… by the Lord… Rapture..



You have them, ON the Earth… subject to the ANGER And WRATH of the Lamb (during the Trib)… why?

Did you Reject the Lambs of Gods Offering?

Uh, those remaining ON earth…( during the Trib.) Did Not become dead… crucified with Jesus… or receive a saved soul… or Born again spirit!
And WHY the ARE subject TO the Angar and Wrath of the Lamb!!!!

Not a mystery!!

Those remaining on Earth… did not convert…
They can convert during the Trib… and Give Their body to Physical Death… ( called martyred ), not as a man IN Christ did, being spiritually Crucified With Jesus, occupying His risen body, and Redeemed By Him….
Before the Wrath of The Lamb begins!!!

Amazing… those who preach…
God is Just, God is Faithful….
But, but, but…. Regardless IF a man… willingly…
Confesses his Heartful belief… is willingly to give his body unto death for his belief, does those things, is forgiven, is soul saved, is spirit quickened….
The Lord God Almighty… Is still angry with that man and Will Cause That man to Suffer horrific Wrath and Tribulations from Heaven.

 

[Taken]

Give us your definition of "bodily".

1 Cor 15:
[44b]There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Then give us the dictionary definition of "bodily".

Satisfy your own Carnal Wondering.
Look in the mirror.

I have no evidence or indication you have the means to have a worthy conversation regarding Spiritual Understanding regarding a Spiritual Body.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Literally Bodily Dead… According to Gods Works / WAY WHICH ARE SPIRITUAL…
Absolutely!

You are saying you think you are literally bodily dead? How are you talking to me then? How are you using your fingers to type if your body is dead? How are you using your eyes to look at your screen if your body is dead?

No, it's not talking about our bodies being literally crucified and dead. Christ's crucifixion resulted in His body being literally dead and in the grave. Is your body in the grave? No. So, what in the world are you talking about here? Is English not your first language? You seem to barely be able to speak coherently.

And UNTIL a man’s OWN BODY IS “Raised up”… such a man LIVES …

What are you talking about here?

I’m Jesus’ Risen Body..

No, Jesus's risen body is up in heaven right now. Spiritually, we are part of the body of Christ. Is that what you mean? If not, you are speaking total nonsense.

Uh…. “IN Christ” ring a bell?

Gal 2:
[20] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Men Crucified With Jesus…Wait TO See what their New Body Shall Look like…. wHEN their body is Risen up… by the Lord… Rapture..

Yes, but our bodies are not literally dead right now. Our bodies are alive right now and those who are alive and remain until He comes will not bodily die, but will have their bodies changed at that time.

You have them, ON the Earth… subject to the ANGER And WRATH of the Lamb (during the Trib)… why?

No, I don't. When did I ever say that? Never. I have His wrath coming down on the day and hour when He comes, just as passages like Matthew 24:35-39, 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-12 and Revelation 19:11-21 indicate.

Did you Reject the Lambs of Gods Offering?

No, of course not. Did you? Stop asking dumb questions.

Uh, those remaining ON earth…( during the Trib.) Did Not become dead… crucified with Jesus… or receive a saved soul… or Born again spirit!
And WHY the ARE subject TO the Angar and Wrath of the Lamb!!!!

Those who are subject to His wrath will be killed! Why do you have them instead going through a time period of tribulation? No, they will be killed instantly when He comes. He isn't going to play games and mess around.

Not a mystery!!

Those remaining on Earth… did not convert…
They can convert during the Trib

Nonsense! This second chance doctrine is a lie from the pit of hell! Once Jesus comes and we are taken up to Him, those left behind will all be killed! That's why He compared the time when He comes to what happened with the flood in Noah's day. He said just as all unbelievers were killed in the flood so it will be in the coming of the Son of man. No one left behind can convert after that. It will be too late! Read Luke 17:26-37. Jesus said one will be taken and one left in the same context of Noah being taken on the ark and those left out of the ark being killed. And He compared it to Lot's day when the day Lot left Sodom, those left in Sodom were all killed. Not left behind and given a chance to convert! You are horribly misrepresenting scripture and introducing a doctrine of second chance salvation that is not taught anywhere.

… and Give Their body to Physical Death… ( called martyred ), not as a man IN Christ did, being spiritually Crucified With Jesus, occupying His risen body, and Redeemed By Him….
Before the Wrath of The Lamb begins!!!

Amazing… those who preach…
God is Just, God is Faithful….
But, but, but…. Regardless IF a man… willingly…
Confesses his Heartful belief… is willingly to give his body unto death for his belief, does those things, is forgiven, is soul saved, is spirit quickened….
The Lord God Almighty… Is still angry with that man and Will Cause That man to Suffer horrific Wrath and Tribulations from Heaven.

No one is saying this nonsense. What is the name of your straw man? You seem to talk to him often.

Look at yourself like this. You talk nothing but nonsense.

 

[Taken]

Stop wasting everyone's time with things that don't relate to the topic of the thread and address what I wrote in the second post of this thread. Why do you not want to address the topic of the thread? You are proving that what I said is true. Premil is not based on clear, straightforward scriptures. It's based on assumptions and speculation instead.

Your umpteen anti-Rapture posts…are repeatedly based on your Accusations you claim for Others, your Carnal Understanding and your Carnal Opinions …

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your umpteen anti-Rapture posts…are repeatedly based on your Accusations you claim for Others, your Carnal Understanding and your Carnal Opinions …

No one on this entire forum is more carnal than you, so get out of here with your nonsense. Do you even know what this thread is about? Apparently not since you won't address the topic of the thread. It's not about whether the rapture is pre-trib or post-trib.

 

[Taken]

You are saying you think you are literally bodily dead?

How are you talking to me then?
How are you using your fingers to type if your body is dead?
How are you using your eyes to look at your screen if your body is dead?

No, it's not talking about our bodies being literally crucified and dead.

Agree “you” remain in your natural body, with your Carnal mind pretending to be competent to explains Spiritual Things.

Eph 2:
[5b] hath quickened us (me) together with Christ…
[6] And hath raised us (me) up together, and made us (me)sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

You can not Have a quickened spirit Without first having a bodily death!!!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Agree “you” remain in your natural body, with your Carnal mind pretending to be competent to explains Spiritual Things.

Eph 2:
[5b] hath quickened us (me) together with Christ…
[6] And hath raised us (me) up together, and made us (me)sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

You can not Have a quickened spirit Without first having a bodily death!!!

You claim to already be in a spiritual body? That's nonsense. Where do you come up with this foolishness? We have been quickened spiritually, not bodily. Paul indicated that our natural bodies that we have now will be changed to be spiritual, glorious, powerful, incorruptible and immortal when we are changed at the last trumpet (1 Corinthians 15:42-54). The last trumpet has not yet sounded.

 

[covenantee]

1 Cor 15:
[44b]There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.





Satisfy your own Carnal Wondering.
Look in the mirror.

I have no evidence or indication you have the means to have a worthy conversation regarding Spiritual Understanding regarding a Spiritual Body.

Thanks for the guffaws.

Unsurprisingly, you're incapable of rational explanation of your own alien vocabulary.

This is a Christian Forum. Go find a forum that caters to the alienism to which you subscribe.

 

[Taken]

You claim to already be in a spiritual body?

No. And IF you had been paying attention… numerous times… I have said… I am, IN CHRIST.
Are you unaware His Body is Risen up…?

That's nonsense.

Yep. That IS nonsense.

Where do you come up with this foolishness?

Uh gaslighter… That nonsense IS “Your Words”… not mine!!!

We have been quickened spiritually, not bodily.

Really? You have a saved soul, quickened spirit in your Same old man, same old natural body?

Not me. According to Gods Word, I was Made a New creature…and once my body is Risen up… then shall I see What my Prepared new body looks like.

2 Cor 5:
[17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Paul indicated that our natural bodies that we have now will be changed to be spiritual, glorious, powerful, incorruptible and immortal when we are changed at the last trumpet (1 Corinthians 15:42-54).

The last trumpet has not yet sounded.

No kidding.
^^ That Applies TO those who believed when their body Died….. BUT Were Not Converted IN Christ !!!

You still fail to get… CHRIST the Lord saves, quickens, redeems, Those crucified with Christ Jesus and Converted by Christ…and Once He Redeems HIS Church…
The door is Closed! No more become IN Christ or are redeemed by The Lord.

Christ redeeming His Church… Does not Teach … that occurs at the LAST Trump!

And during the Trib… God shall save His People ISRAEL… and Last minute Gentiles who CONFESS their belief in God…
And at the Last Trump… ( Their door / (so to speak) opportunity to be claimed, resurrected by God)… ends.


Stiffnecked.

 

[Taken]

Thanks for the guffaws.

Unsurprisingly, you're incapable of rational explanation of your own alien vocabulary.

This is a Christian Forum. Go find a forum that caters to the alienism to which you subscribe.

It appears you believe… the saved souls and with quickened spirits, shall be on earth during the days of Wrath and Tribulations sent down from heaven…
Hope you get to experience what you preach.

 

[covenantee]

It appears you believe… the saved souls and with quickened spirits, shall be on earth during the days of Wrath and Tribulations sent down from heaven…
Hope you get to experience what you preach.

Rapture Wimpism

Any student of Scripture with even a cursory knowledge of the NT Church knows that tribulation in the form of persecution, suffering, and death has been the lot of the Church ever since its birth. From its persecution at the hands of the Jews, to that under the Roman emperors and empires, to that today under Islam and other ideologies; the Church's experience with tribulation has been unrelenting, and its death toll over the millennia is counted in the tens of millions.

In the NT, we see in the book of Acts a complete account of how the disciples and Christ's followers were hated and persecuted as Jesus had predicted (Matthew 24:9). In Acts 4: "And they laid hands on them [Peter and John], and put them in prison" (verse 3). In Acts 5, they were "beaten" (verse 40). As they departed from the "council", they rejoiced "that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name"(verse 41). In Acts 7, Stephen was killed for his stand (verses 54-60). In Acts 8:1 "There was a great persecution against the church." In Acts 16, Paul and Silas were beaten and cast into prison. In Acts 21, persecution resulted in Paul being beaten, and brought before rulers, before whom he testified (Acts 22). In Acts 22:19 we read that Paul confessed that prior to his conversion, he had "imprisoned and beaten in every synagogue" those who believed in Christ.

There was, and is, no lack of tribulation for the NT Church.

But deplorably, we see today a generation of what can best be described as “rapture wimps.” This generation of North American believers, the most “molycoddled and milquetoast” in the history of the Christian Church, seems in large part to believe that it is also entitled to escape the trials and privations which have beset the historic Church, and to be “...carried to the skies on flowery beds of ease” as the beloved hymn “Am I a Soldier of the Cross” describes.

The following partial enumeration of NT tribulation references...:

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

2 Corinthians 1:4
Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

1 Thessalonians 3:4
For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

Revelation 1:9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

...makes it clear that there is no room for rapture wimps in the Christian Church. In solidarity with other believers in parts of the world who suffer tribulation even as we read this, we must be prepared to, as did and do these, “fight to win the prize and sail through bloody seas”, as we see the hymnwriter further pen.


God has promised...:

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

...that we can be triumphant in Him even in the midst of tribulation. He promises us all of His grace and resources to make this a reality.

But the promise is only for those who refuse to be rapture wimps.

 

[Taken]

Rapture Wimpism

Any student of Scripture with even a cursory knowledge of the NT Church knows that tribulation in the form of persecution, suffering, and death has been the lot of the Church ever since its birth.

Not news.
Man against man in this world nothing new.

John 16:
[33] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.


Rev 3:
[10] Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.


Do you think… any Men ARE kept from the Judgements (tribulation) to be sent down from heaven upon the whole Earth?
If so, WHY?
If not, WHY not?

Do you think …any men ARE kept from the Judgements (Tribulation) to be sent down from heaven upon the Whole Earth?
If so, HOW?