Is it possible to lose salvation?

[Dave Mac]

Revelation 2:5​

Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lamp stand from its place, unless you repent.

Revelation 3:5​

The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.

sounds to me if you do not conquer your name could be blotted out from the book of life, plenty of people who soiled there garments in the Bible, and if they do not wash them clean in the blood of the lamb they very well might be blotted out from the book of life,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

works is evidence of salvation, but works with the wrong heart is worthless, but works is very important, Jesus spoke about works to all 7 churches in revelation, and said if they did not repent and do the works they first did he would remove their lampstand, it could be made a case that a lampstand represent salvation, Jesus is very concerned about our works, every single church he spoke to he started with I know your works, if he is so concerned with our works we better be also, and not works only but the why behind them, because works with out love is nothing. far to many trying to discourage works, when Jesus Jesus says works is what makes one worthy to eat from the tree of life, works is what keeps ones name from being blotted our from the book of life, yes Jesus said all these thing to his church,

so you better re think your attitude towards works, it does not save us, it does not pay the penalty for sin only Jesus blood does that, but it is evidence of our salvation, that we have received grace, but if we do not continue in them we may very well be blotted out from the book of life,

Adding works to the cross will fail

We work because we trust god and he saved us

 

[nedsk]

We are not saved by an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" barren of works. (James 2:14) That is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith. *Not to be confused with faith that trusts in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) A person with salvic faith has been made alive together with Christ, created in Christ Jesus for good works. (Ephesians 2:5-10) Learn the difference.

I can see that the sword of the Spirit hurts when it cuts which explains why you continue to lash out at me with your personal insults. Speaking of foolishness. See (1 Corinthians 1:18-21).

I know the difference. Is ou free will suspended when we are "saved" by faith?

I have very little tolerance for blind nonsense

 

[nedsk]

No scripture does not say it.

So you do think you must earn salvation by works. I knew it

Your stuck on James and do not understand it

No scripture does not say it.

So you do think you must earn salvation by works. I knew it

Your stuck on James and do not understand it

Of course it says that

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. (James 2: 20-22) Its blindness or stupidity that makes people say scripture doesnt say that

I was waiting for the "stuck on James" foolishness but you coupled it with the "You don't understand it" buffoonery. On what authority do you declare absolute certainty about what scripture means? Please dont tell me you read it. I just showed you above you dont understand at all what youve read. Its funny that only you people ever "understand" scripture. Your pomposity is despicable.

 

[nedsk]

Adding works to the cross will fail

We work because we trust god and he saved us

But we have a choice and without those works you have NOTHING. Too bad you reject scripture but i understand why you have to.

 

[Kokyu]

And they also claim to not be cherry pickers as they continue to be cherry pickers!

This is, essentially, the ad hominem fallacy. It's what those whose views have collapsed under challenge resort to.

Do you actually have any substantive reply to my posts or is school playground rhetoric all you've got left?

Those folks have a bright future as politicians due to being skilled at doing what they claim they aren't doing and hiding it from most people. Skilled at gaslighting they are.

Just more fallacious ad hominem. Deriding opponents doesn't prove you right or that they are wrong. It only demonstrates that you will deflect with insult from your inability to respond cogently.

Those deceived by the false doctrines of the eternal security crowd wouldn't.

That's why it's called "deception"

Just more ad hominem assertion mixed with unsupported opinion. The final resort of the person with a failed argument.

Obviously not. The eternal security crowd always says that in their efforts to deceive others in to joining them in their deception while they all claim "yeah man, we believe everything the Lord says"

Eternal security heresy is quite the clown show!

Just more ad hominem and unfounded opinion. Nothing of any real substance left, eh? Oh well.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Do you actually have any substantive reply to my posts

I already replied with God's Word, but some folks are too blind and cannot see so it's a moot point really.

When they get where they are going they'll sure which they hadn't gotten mixed up with the false doctrines of eternal security

Too bad, so sad.

 

[mailmandan]

BTW

"Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac at the altar?" (James 2:21) By the standard you have set since the word "works" stands alone therefore that means only works are needed to be saved. Even I don't believe that as the next line tells us, "Thus you can see that his faith and his works were active together; his faith was brought to completion by works."(James 2:22) "Rightly" understood LMBO that means faith is not sufficient for salvation and neither is works but together they save.

I already thoroughly covered James 2:21 and James 2:22 with you in post #388 and #391. Apparently what I explained to you must have just gone right over your head. Abraham was accounted as righteous by faith in Genesis 15:6 (also see Romans 4:2-3) many years before he was shown to be righteous by works in Genesis 22 (also see James 2:21).

Faith is sufficient for salvation because the OBJECT of our faith (Jesus Christ and His finished work of redemption is sufficient to save us. (Romans 3:24-28) We are NOT saved by both faith AND works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. Simple!

 

[mailmandan]

Dont forget the word works stands alone in James 2:25. More support for your case that words which appear alone in a sentence means only. Again though even I don't believe that as the next verse tell us,

"For just as a body is dead without a spirit, so faith without works is also dead." James 2:26

In regard to James 2:25, Rahab believed in the Lord with authentic faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her faith. She showed that her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers show theirs. (James 2:18)

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converge around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

 

[mailmandan]

I know the difference. Is ou free will suspended when we are "saved" by faith?

I have very little tolerance for blind nonsense

Obviously you don't know the difference. Who said anything about free will being suspended when we are saved by faith? Speaking of blind see 2 Corinthians 4:3,4.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Faith is sufficient for salvation

And yet Abraham would not have been righteous before the Lord if He had not acted on His faith as the Lord required.

Under the New Covenant if we do not walk after the Spirit then our faith is not accepted by the Lord so in the end faith without corresponding action is dead and does not result in one going to Heaven.

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2 Peter 2:20 is most definitely speaking of those that have been born again. Of course the eternal security crowd never talks about this passage and if they did they engage in gaslighting, subterfuge and chicanery which are their calling cards

Only those led by the Holy Spirit are the sons of God - Romans 8:14

Those that just believe and don't act on their faith have faith like the devil does which is meaningless.
James 2:19 states, "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

 

[mailmandan]

And yet Abraham would not have been righteous before the Lord if He had not acted on His faith as the Lord required.

Abraham was already righteous before the Lord in Genesis 15:6 when he believed in the Lord and the Lord accounted it to him for righteousness. Now if Abraham would have refused to offer up Isaac on the altar many years later in Genesis 22, then he would have demonstrated a lack of faith in God, but of course, that was not the case. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6 and was shown to be righteous. (James 2:21)

Under the New Covenant if we do not walk after the Spirit then our faith is not accepted by the Lord so in the end faith without corresponding action is dead and does not result in one going to Heaven.

Only those whom the Spirit of God indwells walk after the Spirit. Romans 8:8 - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2 Peter 2:20 is most definitely speaking of those that have been born again. Of course the eternal security crowd never talks about this passage and if they did they engage in gaslighting, subterfuge and chicanery which are their calling cards

In regard to 2 Peter 2:20, those who are truly born of God are partakers of the divine nature. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome.

*Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature." Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside. Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment.

Only those led by the Holy Spirit are the sons of God - Romans 8:14

Amen! Sadly, there are many pseudo-Christians/make believers who are deceived and believe this applies to them.

Those that just believe and don't act on their faith have faith like the devil does which is meaningless.
James 2:19 states, "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

Believe what? Simply that "there is one God?" Even the demons believe that, but they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. How can demons act on saving faith in Christ that they don't have? If we simply believe "mental assent" in certain facts about Jesus but do not trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) then we do not have authentic faith in Jesus, and we won't be saved.

Acting on our faith (and not simply going through the motions of moral self-reformation) gives evidence that one has been saved through faith and is born of God. (1 John 3:7-10) Moral self-reformation is not a substitute for regeneration. We must be born again. (John 3:3) One can be "religious, but not right with God." To know Jesus (John 17:3) involves a personal relationship with Him that transforms our allegiance and our behavior. Therefore, by their fruits you will know them.

 

[David Lamb]

Again the presumption that you are in possession of the truth. The fact is scriptures EXPLICITLY says we are not saved by faith alone yet you want to foist some nonsensical bs.on me that because the word faith stands alone it s sentence that means it's faith alone that saves. That's not only bad logic it's stupid. Its the exact same thing every time with you people. You posit ridiculous ideas and then get off huffy when you're called out on your foolishness. When you can read get back to me. Your pompousness is surpassed only by your buffoonery

Have you ever read the rules of this forum? One states:

"You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws. You are entirely responsible for the content of, and any harm resulting from, that Content or your conduct."

In one short post, you call a fellow member, or what he writes, "nonsensical," "stupid," "ridiculous," "pompousness," and "buffoonery."

 

[Dave Mac]

Adding works to the cross will fail

We work because we trust god and he saved us

yes I agree and made that point, I thought,

its God not god my friend :)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Of course it says that

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. (James 2: 20-22) Its blindness or stupidity that makes people say scripture doesnt say that

I was waiting for the "stuck on James" foolishness but you coupled it with the "You don't understand it" buffoonery. On what authority do you declare absolute certainty about what scripture means? Please dont tell me you read it. I just showed you above you dont understand at all what youve read. Its funny that only you people ever "understand" scripture. Your pomposity is despicable.

Abraham was saved in Gen 15. Not decades later when he offered his son

Abraham’s works proved his faith was real where the people who had no works proved they had no faith

But you proved me right so.

Thank you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But we have a choice and without those works you have NOTHING. Too bad you reject scripture but i understand why you have to.

Actually without faith you have nothing

The wage of sin is death not your good deeds

We work because we are saved not to get saved

 

[nedsk]

Obviously you don't know the difference. Who said anything about free will being suspended when we are saved by faith? Speaking of blind see 2 Corinthians 4:3,4.

Oh brother. Once saved are you free to sin?

 

[mailmandan]

Oh brother. Once saved are you free to sin?

Being a child of God is not a license to sin.

 

[nedsk]

Have you ever read the rules of this forum? One states:

"You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws. You are entirely responsible for the content of, and any harm resulting from, that Content or your conduct."

In one short post, you call a fellow member, or what he writes, "nonsensical," "stupid," "ridiculous," "pompousness," and "buffoonery."

I didn't call anyone any of those things. Please read I wrote again. A persons ideas can and in this care are nonsensical stupid and ridiculous. They are also behaving pompously and with buffoonery. If they want to suspend me they can. It doesn't change their behavior.

Actually without faith you have nothing

The wage of sin is death not your good deeds

We work because we are saved not to get saved

Where did I say faith wasnt necessary? Copy and paste my words.

We are free not to work. I NEVER said works save anyone. This is why I hold you people in such low regard. Now you either arent capable of reading what I actually wrote or you don't care what I actually wrote. The corner I can excuse because your be limited by conditions that maybe you don't control. If if the latter then you aren't worthy of any respect whatsoever. So far I'm leaning toward the latter with nyou

 

[Kokyu]

I already replied with God's Word, but some folks are too blind and cannot see so it's a moot point really.

No, you replied with your erroneous "spin" on God's word. And when I showed that your "spin" was not in keeping with the actual text of Scripture, you've resorted to ad hominem (in which you've indulged again in the quotation above) and unfounded opinion.

When they get where they are going they'll sure which they hadn't gotten mixed up with the false doctrines of eternal security

Too bad, so sad.

Your remarks here do nothing to secure your view or rebut mine. The quotation above is just sneering rhetoric, not well-reasoned argument. It seems you've got nothing left in the tank but these nasty fumes. This should suggest to you that your doctrine is faulty - or, at least, that your thinking is.