Is it possible to lose salvation?

[Kokyu]

Good works do not cancel out Gods grace.
The good works we do is IN Gods grace.
Gods grace instructs us to do good works.

Yes, the natural consequence of being indwelt by the Holy Spirit is the manifestation of his "fruit" (Ga. 5:22-23) in our living. But what is natural is not, therefore, necessary. I will naturally do what God commands me to do as the Spirit is in control of me and enables me to work out his work in me (Phil. 2:12-13). But I may, for a variety of reasons, not live under the control of the Holy Spirit in the conscious, explicit way I ought to do as a Christian and so the Spirit does not work in me such that I am able to work it out. This doesn't mean I'm not saved, though, as the believers at Corinth, Rome, in the province of Galatia, and the churches of Sardis and Laodicea demonstrate.

We are only saved when our sins are covered by Gods grace.
Disobeying God with no intention of repenting, leaves us seperated from Gods grace,

Titus 2:11-12,
- for the  grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
teaching us(Gods grace teaches us to work the commandments of God)
- teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly righteously and godly in this present age

What does it mean that our sins are covered by God's grace? Does God extend and withdraw His grace to us, back-and-forth, like the head of a turtle popping out and then retreating into its shell? As I understand it, God expresses His grace to us in the Person of Jesus Christ, who died for our sins on the cross, perfectly satisfying God's justice, so that "where sin abounded God's grace did much more abound" (Ro. 5:20).

Romans 3:21-24
21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;

By faith, not by works, I obtain the righteousness of Jesus. I "put on Christ" (Ro. 13:14; Ga. 3:27) by faith and am "in him," as a result (2 Co. 5:17; Eph. 1:1-13). And being in Christ, I am fully redeemed, justified and sanctified (1 Co. 1:30). This is what Paul, in the passage above, calls being "justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus." I don't, of course, earn a gift, or act to deserve it, I simply receive it - in the case of my salvation, by faith. But if the gracious gift of salvation is extended to me on the basis of what Jesus has done for me, on the basis of his perfectly satisfying atonement on the cross for me, I have nothing to contribute to that gift; it's been entirely paid for by Christ.

Anyway, I agree that unrepentant disobedience to God keeps a lost person from knowing and walking with Him as His born-again child. I don't see, though, what this has to do with the person who is already born-again.

Gods grace teaches us how we must live.
By not following the teachings found in Gods grace we are no longer under grace!!!

Galatians 5:4,
- Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye have fallen from grace
These Jewish converts to Christ have fallen from Grace because they are not following the new testament law teachings(doctrine) of Christ. Instead they have left the faith attempting to be justified by going back into keeping the old testament law of Moses.

But what Paul wrote in the passage you've cited above was written within the context of Judaizers pressing already-saved believers in the province of Galatia to take up Old Covenant law-keeping. Doing so, Paul wrote, would be to return to a way of dealing with God that the Jews had shown was unworkable, the law only revealing that the Jews could not ever keep it perfectly. If the believers in Galatia wanted to take up the Old Covenant way of doing things, they'd have to do so perfectly (Matt. 5:48) which no one (save Jesus) can do (Ro. 3:1-23. Eph. 2:1-3). The Old Covenant approach to God is not grace-based, you see, as the New Covenant is. And so, Paul wrote to the Galatians,

Galatians 3:10
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them."

God's grace, though, is not extended to us on the basis of our works, but in consequence of the atoning work of Jesus on the cross. If we receive, by faith, Christ's redeeming work for us, God, for Christ's sake, graciously accepts us as "joint-heirs with Christ" (Ro. 8:17). All of this rests upon Christ, not us. And so, Scripture rules out our works as a basis for being saved.

What did Paul mean, then, when he wrote about "falling from grace"? Only that the benefits of being "in Christ," of having received the grace of God extended to sinners in Jesus, cannot be enjoyed by those who intend to deal with God on an Old Covenant, law-keeping basis.

Galatians 3:2-3
2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

 

[nedsk]

See you said you do not teach works and here you teach works I rest my case. Nothing more needs said

I'm going to and treat you with a respect you haven't earned, so what do you mean by "teach" works? What I will say though, while contemplate a response that will no doubt not answer the question, is I reference works just as James does. That is to say works complete faith. In other words if faith was sufficient it wouldnt need works to complete it..AGAIN thats the complete opposite of sufficient.

You know what's adorable? You're declaration, "I rest my case" as if that matters to anyone but you. You're so cute. Did your.mom good for you a gold star for that dramatic performance? Lol

 

[nedsk]

Yes, the natural consequence of being indwelt by the Holy Spirit is the manifestation of his "fruit" (Ga. 5:22-23) in our living. But what is natural is not, therefore, necessary. I will naturally do what God commands me to do as the Spirit is in control of me and enables me to work out his work in me (Phil. 2:12-13). But I may, for a variety of reasons, not live under the control of the Holy Spirit in the conscious, explicit way I ought to do as a Christian and so the Spirit does not work in me such that I am able to work it out. This doesn't mean I'm not saved, though, as the believers at Corinth, Rome, in the province of Galatia, and the churches of Sardis and Laodicea demonstrate.



What does it mean that our sins are covered by God's grace? Does God extend and withdraw His grace to us, back-and-forth, like the head of a turtle popping out and then retreating into its shell? As I understand it, God expresses His grace to us in the Person of Jesus Christ, who died for our sins on the cross, perfectly satisfying God's justice, so that "where sin abounded God's grace did much more abound" (Ro. 5:20).

Romans 3:21-24
21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;

By faith, not by works, I obtain the righteousness of Jesus. I "put on Christ" (Ro. 13:14; Ga. 3:27) by faith and am "in him," as a result (2 Co. 5:17; Eph. 1:1-13). And being in Christ, I am fully redeemed, justified and sanctified (1 Co. 1:30). This is what Paul, in the passage above, calls being "justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus." I don't, of course, earn a gift, or act to deserve it, I simply receive it - in the case of my salvation, by faith. But if the gracious gift of salvation is extended to me on the basis of what Jesus has done for me, on the basis of his perfectly satisfying atonement on the cross for me, I have nothing to contribute to that gift; it's been entirely paid for by Christ.

Anyway, I agree that unrepentant disobedience to God keeps a lost person from knowing and walking with Him as His born-again child. I don't see, though, what this has to do with the person who is already born-again.



But what Paul wrote in the passage you've cited above was written within the context of Judaizers pressing already saved believers in the province of Galatia to take up Old Covenant law-keeping. Doing so, Paul wrote, would be to return to a way of dealing with God that the Jews had shown was unworkable, the law only revealing that the Jews could not ever keep it perfectly. If the believers in Galatia wanted to take up the Old Covenant way of doing things, they'd have to do so perfectly (Matt. 5:48) which no one (save Jesus) can do (Ro. 3:1-23. Eph. 2:1-3). The Old Covenant approach to God is not grace-based, as the New Covenant is. And so, Paul wrote to the Galatians,

Galatians 3:10
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them."

God's grace, though, is not extended to us on the basis of our works, but in consequence of the atoning work of Jesus on the cross. If we receive, by faith, Christ's redeeming work for us, God, for Christ's sake, graciously accepts us as "joint-heirs with Christ" (Ro. 8:17). All of this rests upon Christ, not us. And so, Scripture rules out our works as a basis for being saved.

What did Paul mean, then, when he wrote about "falling from grace"? Only that the benefits of being "in Christ," of having received the grace of God extended to sinners in Jesus, cannot be enjoyed by those who intend to deal with God on an Old Covenant, law-keeping basis.

Galatians 3:2-3
2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

So you're like the fig tree you have no choice but to do the works of God. You will produce "fruit" no matter what. Then if it's not a choice it's not done of out love it's down out of obligation?

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, the natural consequence of being indwelt by the Holy Spirit is the manifestation of his "fruit" (Ga. 5:22-23) in our living. But what is natural is not, therefore, necessary. I will naturally do what God commands me to do as the Spirit is in control of me and enables me to work out his work in me (Phil. 2:12-13). But I may, for a variety of reasons, not live under the control of the Holy Spirit in the conscious, explicit way I ought to do as a Christian and so the Spirit does not work in me such that I am able to work it out. This doesn't mean I'm not saved, though, as the believers at Corinth, Rome, in the province of Galatia, and the churches of Sardis and Laodicea demonstrate.



What does it mean that our sins are covered by God's grace? Does God extend and withdraw His grace to us, back-and-forth, like the head of a turtle popping out and then retreating into its shell? As I understand it, God expresses His grace to us in the Person of Jesus Christ, who died for our sins on the cross, perfectly satisfying God's justice, so that "where sin abounded God's grace did much more abound" (Ro. 5:20).

Romans 3:21-24
21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;

By faith, not by works, I obtain the righteousness of Jesus. I "put on Christ" (Ro. 13:14; Ga. 3:27) by faith and am "in him," as a result (2 Co. 5:17; Eph. 1:1-13). And being in Christ, I am fully redeemed, justified and sanctified (1 Co. 1:30). This is what Paul, in the passage above, calls being "justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus." I don't, of course, earn a gift, or act to deserve it, I simply receive it - in the case of my salvation, by faith. But if the gracious gift of salvation is extended to me on the basis of what Jesus has done for me, on the basis of his perfectly satisfying atonement on the cross for me, I have nothing to contribute to that gift; it's been entirely paid for by Christ.

Anyway, I agree that unrepentant disobedience to God keeps a lost person from knowing and walking with Him as His born-again child. I don't see, though, what this has to do with the person who is already born-again.



But what Paul wrote in the passage you've cited above was written within the context of Judaizers pressing already-saved believers in the province of Galatia to take up Old Covenant law-keeping. Doing so, Paul wrote, would be to return to a way of dealing with God that the Jews had shown was unworkable, the law only revealing that the Jews could not ever keep it perfectly. If the believers in Galatia wanted to take up the Old Covenant way of doing things, they'd have to do so perfectly (Matt. 5:48) which no one (save Jesus) can do (Ro. 3:1-23. Eph. 2:1-3). The Old Covenant approach to God is not grace-based, you see, as the New Covenant is. And so, Paul wrote to the Galatians,

Galatians 3:10
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them."

God's grace, though, is not extended to us on the basis of our works, but in consequence of the atoning work of Jesus on the cross. If we receive, by faith, Christ's redeeming work for us, God, for Christ's sake, graciously accepts us as "joint-heirs with Christ" (Ro. 8:17). All of this rests upon Christ, not us. And so, Scripture rules out our works as a basis for being saved.

What did Paul mean, then, when he wrote about "falling from grace"? Only that the benefits of being "in Christ," of having received the grace of God extended to sinners in Jesus, cannot be enjoyed by those who intend to deal with God on an Old Covenant, law-keeping basis.

Galatians 3:2-3
2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

rivia question time .
CAN GOD LIE
thus can CHRIST LIE .
NO .
IS every word JESUS spoke truth . YES .
I suggest we use all HIS WORDS
SO allow me to write a statement
and then any can answer as to why its wrong or right to make such a statement .
HERE is the statement i make to all .
YE MUST BELEIVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST to be saved and ye must continue in HIM to the end .
Now anyone wanna tell me what is wrong or right about that statement .

 

[amigo de christo]

So you're like the fig tree you have no choice but to do the works of God. You will produce "fruit" no matter what. Then if it's not a choice it's not done of out love it's down out of obligation?

Trivia question time .
CAN GOD LIE
thus can CHRIST LIE .
NO .
IS every word JESUS spoke truth . YES .
I suggest we use all HIS WORDS
SO allow me to write a statement
and then any can answer as to why its wrong or right to make such a statement .
HERE is the statement i make to all .
YE MUST BELEIVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST to be saved and ye must continue in HIM to the end .
Now anyone wanna tell me what is wrong or right about that statement .

 

[Kokyu]

So you're like the fig tree you have no choice but to do the works of God. You will produce "fruit" no matter what. Then if it's not a choice it's not done of out love it's down out of obligation?

No, I wouldn't describe things this way. God doesn't force me to live as he wants me to. Only as I agree to His transformation of me will He do it. But I give this agreement by my submission to His will and way throughout every day. There is no other dynamic in which I can walk with God except that of submission. See: Romans 6:13-22; 8:14; 12:1; James 4:6-10; 1 Peter 5:6. If I'm not consciously, explicitly submitted to God (Luke 22:42) all throughout each day, the only other place I can occupy relative to Him is that of the rebel. God opposes rebels, even if they're His children.

I submit to God, though, because His love is in me in the Person of the Holy Spirit (Ro. 5:5; Ga; 5:22), filling me more and more as I live daily in submission to my holy Maker. And as His love is like "rivers of living water" in me, my obedience to Him happens naturally and joyfully, even when it is very costly to me to be obedient.

 

[Kokyu]

rivia question time .
CAN GOD LIE
thus can CHRIST LIE .
NO .
IS every word JESUS spoke truth . YES .
I suggest we use all HIS WORDS
SO allow me to write a statement
and then any can answer as to why its wrong or right to make such a statement .
HERE is the statement i make to all .
YE MUST BELEIVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST to be saved and ye must continue in HIM to the end .
Now anyone wanna tell me what is wrong or right about that statement .

If you'll read through my posts in this thread, you'll have my answer to your question, I think.

 

[amigo de christo]

If you'll read through my posts in this thread, you'll have my answer to your question, I think.

Well a simple answer would be nice . IS what i wrote a lie .
or is it truth . a simple yes and no answer is all that is required .

 

[nedsk]

Trivia question time .
CAN GOD LIE
thus can CHRIST LIE .
NO .
IS every word JESUS spoke truth . YES .
I suggest we use all HIS WORDS
SO allow me to write a statement
and then any can answer as to why its wrong or right to make such a statement .
HERE is the statement i make to all .
YE MUST BELEIVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST to be saved and ye must continue in HIM to the end .
Now anyone wanna tell me what is wrong or right about that statement .

I am going to try and work on the assumption you can read with comprehension. Im not entirely sure you can but I'm willing to try. I'm going to ask you a question and I really need you to focus and not capitalize half your words when you reply . You ready? Here it comes:

Where did I say we don't have to believe in Jesus to be saved? Pay attention now this is REALLY (thats for you because I I know how much you love CAPS) important I want you to copy and paste my words were I said belief in Jesus wasn't needed to be saved. Fetch

 

[nedsk]

No, I wouldn't describe things this way. God doesn't force me to live as he wants me to. Only as I agree to His transformation of me will He do it. But I give this agreement by my submission to His will and way throughout every day. There is no other dynamic in which I can walk with God except that of submission. See: Romans 6:13-22; 8:14; 12:1; James 4:6-10; 1 Peter 5:6. If I'm not consciously, explicitly submitted to God (Luke 22:42) all throughout each day, the only other place I can occupy relative to Him is that of the rebel. God opposes rebels, even if they're His children.

I submit to God, though, because His love is in me in the Person of the Holy Spirit (Ro. 5:5; Ga; 5:22), filling me more and more as I live daily in submission to my holy Maker. And as His love is like "rivers of living water" in me, my obedience to Him happens naturally and joyfully, even when it is very costly to me to be obedient.

So if he doesn't force you then by definition it is a choice. Since it's a choice thats why works are needed, not sufficient but needed to complete faith just like James said. Faith without works is dead.

 

[Kokyu]

So if he doesn't force you then by definition it is a choice. Since it's a choice thats why works are needed, not sufficient but needed to complete faith just like James said. Faith without works is dead.

Yes, walking with God is a choice.

I'm not sure what you mean by "works are needed, though. They don't have the power to save anyone, right? This is what Ephesians 2:8-9, 2 Timothy 1:9 and Titus 3:5 all say very explicitly.

I agree that my faith is completed through corresponding action, but when James wrote that faith without this action is "dead," he didn't mean non-existent, or has been destroyed. He explained that he meant by a "dead faith" a faith that is alone, incomplete and useless. Nowhere in the entire letter by James, though, do I find the explicit statement that one must do good works in order to be saved.

James does ask if faith alone can save anyone but, as I've explained, faith has no salvific power; it only puts a person in position to be saved. So, then, the person who's thinking faith is what saves them is mistaken. But so is the one who thinks that their works save them. Only the Savior saves (Ac. 4:12; 1 Ti. 2:5; Jn. 14:6).

 

[Kokyu]

Well a simple answer would be nice . IS what i wrote a lie .
or is it truth . a simple yes and no answer is all that is required .

I think you're mistaken in some of what you wrote. The reasons as to why I've already extensively explained in this thread.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Ongoing meaningless twaddle and balderdash

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

now the flip side of the passage, would suggest if you do not conquer your name will be blotted out of the book of life, we have responsibility, and Jesus can give salvation to anyone he chooses, he is the one who paid the price for our sin.

That's the whole thing, these folks like to get their sin on every now and again so they must continue to claim it's not possible to lose their salvation so they can feel good about themselves when they go get their sin on ya know.

What does it mean that our sins are covered by God's grace?

What it does NOT mean is when people willing and knowingly sin that is NOT covered by God's grace as the fake gospel of the eternal security crowd must continue to claim so they can get their sin on every now and then

Romans 6:1-2
Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

But what Paul wrote in the passage you've cited above was written within the context of Judaizers pressing already-saved believers in the province of Galatia to take up Old Covenant law-keeping.

Yes and what He said applies to all Christians who turn away from the Lord to go back to their old live of sin.

They have fallen from grace! Those that fail to right divide the Word of truth fall in to the ditch like the folks in the eternal security crowd have done.

Let this be a lesson to you boy and girls - DON"T do what the eternal security crowd has and fall in to the ditch of false doctrine!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Trivia question time .
CAN GOD LIE
thus can CHRIST LIE .
NO .
IS every word JESUS spoke truth . YES .
I suggest we use all HIS WORDS
SO allow me to write a statement
and then any can answer as to why its wrong or right to make such a statement .
HERE is the statement i make to all .
YE MUST BELEIVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST to be saved and ye must continue in HIM to the end .
Now anyone wanna tell me what is wrong or right about that statement .

Is not continuing in him you doing things of your own power

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm going to and treat you with a respect you haven't earned, so what do you mean by "teach" works? What I will say though, while contemplate a response that will no doubt not answer the question, is I reference works just as James does. That is to say works complete faith. In other words if faith was sufficient it wouldnt need works to complete it..AGAIN thats the complete opposite of sufficient.

For by grace I have been saved by faith. Not if myself not if worjs

If it is grace it is no longer if works.

Now by works of righteousness which we have done but by his mercy

When you add works to grace you teach works

Works plus grace equals works

Your opening statement is full of pride

You know what's adorable? You're declaration, "I rest my case" as if that matters to anyone but you. You're so cute. Did your.mom good for you a gold star for that dramatic performance? Lol

I rest my case again you teach works everyone sees it. I can just pray one day you see it

 

[Titus]

The Old Covenant approach to God is not grace-based, you see, as the New Covenant is. And so, Paul wrote to the Galatians,

God saves the same way with all of mankind.
Man cannot save himself apart from Grace.

If your teaching is Scripturally correct then all the Jews that died before Christ are lost.
They all died under the Mosaical law.
You teach no grace under the old covenant.
How can anyone go to heaven if Gods grace did not save them?

Moses is the beginning of the old covenant law.
Moses was saved by Gods grace.
Faith is what saved the Jews under the old law in the old covenant.
Since God required faith from the Jews it must be that Gods grace saved all of the old testament Jews who had faith in Him.

Whenever you read about faith there will always be Gods grace.
Faith by itself cannot save anyone!!! Only if Gods grace is given.

Paul teaches Jews under the old Mosaical law were saved by Grace through faith not by perfect law keeping. This does not cancel keeping the law if you lived under the old law. It means the law keeping itself could not merit salvation because the Jews were saved by Gods grace through faith.
Just as everyone is.
We today are under the new testament law of Christ, Galatians 6:2.
Are saved by grace through faith. But this does not mean the new law is not required.
In fact keeping the law is the only way to recieve Gods grace.
Jews had to obey Gods old testament law to be saved by grace but the law itself could not save.
The only way anyone could be saved by law keeping is one would have to live a perfect sinless life by keeping Gods law perfectly.
Jesus never violated the law of Moses. He kept the old law perfectly. That is why He was free from sin.
No man can accomplish this, therefore we need Gods mercy and grace to be saved.
No one in history has been given Gods grace that rebelled against obeying His law.
Again the law itself cannot save but since grace is conditional, the condition God has always given to receive His grace is keeping His commandments. Old law and New.
God knows we cannot keep His law perfectly. That is when Grace steps in and covers our sins.

Listen to Paul teach that all the old testament saints were saved by grace and faith,
Romans 4:16,
- Therefore it is of  faith that it might be by  grace to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed not to that only which is of the law but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham who is the father of us all

So, you are mistaken when you teach the old covenant was not grace based. That is unscriptual teaching.

The Old Covenant approach to God is not grace-based, you see, as the New Covenant is. And so, Paul wrote to the Galatians,

Every covenant God made with man, man violated his covenant with God.
A covenant is a contract made between man and God.
The only way anyone could be saved is by Gods unmerited favor.(Grace)

Noah was saved by Grace. Every jew under the old law that died before Jesus was saved just as Noah by Gods grace through their obedient faith.
Genesis 6:8,
- but Noah found  grace in the eyes of the Lord

By faith, not by works, I obtain the righteousness of Jesus. I "put on Christ" (Ro. 13:14;

You must know the context to know what works Paul is discussing.
Works here is the works of the law of Moses.
No one is justified during the new testament dispensation from the works of the old law.
Why, Because the old law has been replaced with Christs new testament law.
This is the letter Romans. Romans is written to CHRISTIANS.
Christianity began when the old testament, old covenant, old law ENDED.
This is why Paul says not by works we obtain the righteousness of Jesus.

James teaching the works of the new testament law of Christ teaches these works which are the works in the gospel of Jesus Christ do justify.
James 2:24,
- ye see then how by that by works(new covenant, gospel) a man is justified and not by faith alone(apart from keeping new testament law, Galatians 6:2,
- bear ye one another's burdens and so fullfil(obey) the law of Christ (new testament law, Jesus' gospel)

As I understand it, God expresses His grace to us in the Person of Jesus Christ, who died for our sins on the cross, perfectly satisfying God's justice, so that "where sin abounded God's grace did much more abound" (Ro. 5:20).

Yes, Jesus dying for undeserving wicked sinners is definitely grace towards us.
But Jesus Himself taught He gives eternal life to those who believe who He is but also we must believe His word, which is His gospel.
John 5:24,
- verily I say unto you he that heareth(obeys) My word and believeth on Him that sent Me hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation but is passed from death unto life

So Gods grace is in His sacrifice but also His instruction in His gospel.

Gods grace is conditional on what He tells us to do in His word(gospel) if we do it.
The gospel teaches we must do Gods will to be saved.
To teach man does nothing is unscriptual teaching.

Acts 2:37,
-Now when they heard this they were pricked in their heart and said to Peter, and to the rest of the apostles, men and brethren what shall we do

Peter did not tell them what men teach today. He did not tell them there is nothing Jesus requires for them to do.

Acts 9:6,
- and Saul trembling and astonished said, Lord what wilt thou have me to do,
and the Lord said unto him, Arise and go into the city and it shall be told thee what thou must do

When God tells you, you MUST do something. Can you not do it and be saved?

Acts 10:6,
- he lodgeth with one Simon a tanner whose house is by the sea side he shall tell thee what thou oughest to do

Acts 16:30,
- and brought them out and said, Sirs what  must I  do to be saved

Did the Philippian Jailer have to do something?
Paul's response was not what men today teach.
He did not tell him, he was wrong, men do nothing Jesus requires nothing of man, Jesus does everything for you even the believing.

Acts 2:40,
- and with many other words did he testify and exhort saying, save yourselves from this untoward generation

No merit in salvation.
Works do not cancel out Gods grace.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

No merit in salvation.

Amen.

works do not Cancel Grace? hmm...:

"And if By Grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise Grace is no more Grace.​

But if it be of works, then is it no more Grace: otherwise work is no more work."​

(Romans 11:6 AV)​

Grace Through faith ( Ephesians 2:8:9... Titus, etc. ) is for God's Eternal Salvation!

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

works (we all should (...v 10) do) merit "rewards" within God's Eternal Salvation (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV),
eh?:

Amen.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Man cannot save himself apart from Grace.

And man can ONLY access grace thru faith which must be acted on to be authentic and accepted by the Lord.

Romans 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace

Whether living under the OT or the NT, without faith it's impossible to please God and those walking in the faith that pleases God acts like what they believe is true so they walk in their faith.

They aren't just Sunday morning quaterbacks who claim to have faith giving the Lord a little lip service on Sunday but live after the flesh the rest of the week like many today are doing.

How can anyone go to heaven if Gods grace did not save them?

All the OT saints went to a temporary place the Bible calls the bosom of Abraham and when Jesus went in to hell He preached to them, they got born again.

Prior to getting born again counted them as righteous as they walking in the OT law and kept it which was God's grace.

The OT law were just a place holder so to speak until the Law of Christ could be established which is the New Covenant.

 

[amigo de christo]

I think you're mistaken in some of what you wrote. The reasons as to why I've already extensively explained in this thread.

So JESUS was mistaken when HE too warned even his own
but he who endures TO THE END the same shall be saved .
Or perhaps paul was wrong
when he wrote and told the same thing to the church in rome .
Or how about what he wrote in hebrews
FOR WE ARE MADE PARTAKERS OF CHRIST if we HOLD our confidence
FIRM TO THE END baby .
So tell me again
where it is WRONG to tell the church YE MUST Continue in HIM to the end .
cause they sure said so . THEY ALL said so . even warned
to beware lest ....................
We been duped . that is my point .
When even men who TRUST IN CHRIST and TRUST IN HIS WORDS
are told YE DONT have faith in HIM just cause WE PREACH HIS OWN WORDS
MY oh my SOMETHING has went wrong .
SEEMS to me that many have put their FAITH and TRUST , their hope
INTO DOCTRINES of men . And that friend is not good .
As for me , I TRUST CHRIST , HIS words and all His warnings too .
I mean EVERY WORD from promise to warning , IS FOR MY GOOD and the good of those who do hear and obey such lovely words
WHO BELEIVE such lovely words .

 

[amigo de christo]

Is not continuing in him you doing things of your own power

NOT AT ALL .
now marvel at the beauty of this next response and Of course DO test it
BUT FRIEND its gonna be a beauty .
You wrote and said IS NOT continuing in him DOING things of your own power .
WHO YOU THINK has been the one reminding me , keeping me
who also reminded paul who reminded THE CHURCH .
ITS NOT me . ITS HIM , HIS SPIRIT that speaks always in agreement WITH ALL HIS WORDS .
ITS HIM keeping me safe and reminding me .
THEY deceived you all . TRUSTING IN JESUS is now seen as trusting in oneself . pretty sad i say .
YOU really think its been ME keeping me . NO SIR , ITS BEEN THE KING , THE SPIRIT
and by GOD and HIS GRACE i am gonna continue to REMIND with all those reminders the early church did .
NO man can stop me . I DO as i do for the good of this people and unto the GLORY OF GOD . i pray many will
be refreshed and even encouraged by this writing . cause it aint a sin , or lack of faith
TO TRUST IN EVERYTHING JESUS said as well as the apostels who BY THE SPIRIT sure did remind
the church about the DIRE NEED TO CONTINUE IN HIM , IN HIS GOODNESS
Thanks for the response my friend . OH it aint me keeping me safe, ITS JESUS .
And every word of HIS is GOOD for our learning . HE knows how to KEEP the church safe .
HE KNOWS exactly WHAT HE IS DOING . may i suggest we all simply start trusting IN HIS words
and not in men who seem to omit and twist such words.