David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Was not me causing any argument but those who oppose the direct wording of Scripture
My posts are the same as Post 156 which you agreed with = who is arguing with who?
WHAT IS THE WATER IN JOHN 3:5?
- Thread starter GodsGrace
- Start date
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My posts are the same as Post 156 which you agreed with = who is arguing with who?
I think it has something to do with the cleansing from sin, to be made pure as well as the work of the Spirit (for the second time).
PS95
Well-Known Member
WHAT IS THE WATER IN JOHN 3:5?
- Thread starterGodsGrace
- Start dateJun 19, 2025
Believe it or not the water used in John 3:5 signifies the gospel. Elsewhere in Scripture, it is said that "all born again believers have in them this "living water" (John 7:38).
He that believeth on me, as the Scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water (Gospel).
That is, when believers witnesses to nonbelievers and these become saved it's because they heard the true Gospel! Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Romans 10:17).
And this is my take in undersetting of the subject.
To God Be the Glory
Hiddenthings
Member
The Water aspect speaks to a good confession and is within the meaning of the Spirit. It's so obvious I cannot believe this discussion has gone on as long as it has!
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
If that were true then JESUS would be saying that we need to be Born TWICE = directly from God BOTH times.
Once by the Gospel and then Born Again by the Spirit
But that is not what JESUS, in this passage of Scripture, declares.
In FACT, Jesus separated and DEFINED the TWO Births in the passage.
First Birth = "that which is flesh is flesh"
Second Birth = "that which is Spirit is spirit"
How was Jesus born?
Jesus was born thru Mary, growing inside her womb encapsulated in WATER, which is the amniotic fluid.
Amniotic fluid is a clear, water-like liquid that surrounds and protects a developing fetus during pregnancy.
It cushions the fetus, helps in its growth and development, and contains important nutrients and antibodies.
This is God's Way from Genesis and every human comes into the world this way.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Only works if Jesus actually said "Born AGAIN"....
And I know that it gets confusing for people because that's what is written/translated in English. But it's not what He said and not what He meant.
John, writing in Early Latin/Greek....
Said that Jesus said "Genethe anothen" or Born from Above....not Born again. The note in subtext in printed bibles is correct....the "again" is what's there due to tradition carried forward as an error made by Erasmus over 500 years ago.
But EVERYWHERE else in scripture "anothen" is used it means "above".
Then....
There are the troubling Jewish anthropologists....who state that "Born from Above" is a distinction of a class of individuals. (Caste based society classifying individuals? Say it isn't so!) But it conveniently gets forgotten by so many people who claim they are correct and perfect in theological matters with perfect hermeneutics.
And amniotic fluid...live birth....kinda redundant stating of the obvious. Especially when Paper and ink to write this section are going to equal several days labor.
Just saying....
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Thank You for this
Even if we exchange Born Again to Born Above(which i love) it does not change the meaning for Jesus clearly stated we must be Born of the Spirit.
Jesus also separated the two births: "that which is flesh is flesh" = 1st Birth
"that which is Spirit is spirit" = Second Birth = from the Spirit/Above
Ephesians 2:1-3 VALIDATES John 3:1-10
Secondly, only humans are born from/in WATER and who can experience a Second Birth= Born from Above
Thirdly - Angels are created beings = no birth records and no scripture that states they were birthed
Fallen Angels cannot be redeemed = God did not grant Salvation to the fallen angels who serve satan.
again.
ἄνωθεν (anōthen)
Adverb
Strong's Greek 509: From ano; from above; by analogy, from the first; by implication, anew - over again
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Apparently, natural birth of water in the mother's womb has been debunk by Jesus, after Nicodemus spoke of it as he understood.
Clearly, it was the water baptism upon repentance, as Jesus and His disciples were too water baptizing after John, and it continued to the book of Acts.
Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
This is the water Jesus spoke about, the water He would give, the water that cleanses from all sin. The Holy Spirit's work, whom Jesus sends, plus this gift from Jesus, whereas at the beginning, when one first has an encounter with the living God, one is not entirely cleansed from sin. One does however, know what sin is, whereas before one does not and thinks oneself at least as good as other men.
It is not again or anew. That was an error in translating made by Erasmus over 500 years ago. And the modern translators keep the error due to tradition even though it's wrong.
Nothing much was made of it until around the turn of the 19th century when it became a marketing campaign focusing on the personal relationship we have with Jesus.
Strongs lexicon of course is going to keep the error....
But then you have to completely erase the Anthropology of the Jews and make it fit this theology. The Born from Above classification of the heroes of Israel's past....which is what Jesus was telling Nicodemus he belonged to.. (Which gave Nicodemus a startle as evidenced by his claim to need a whole life do-over)
Scriptures are written in a very compact and restricted fashion. Paper and ink were expensive. Obvious information was always left out of any writing. (Which gave rise to Jewish Talmud tales) Like how many times Nicodemus knocked on the door, or that early evening into dark is Social Time in Israel. (Still is to this day) These bits of information are left up to the reader to insert for themselves. Same thing for those classified as "Born From Above" which the Jews still have as a Caste to this day. (They put a Hebrew name on it)
This whole "Born again " theology is American wackanoodle stuff out of mistranslating a single word that did not make sense to Erasmus. God may love Americans as much as anyone else in the world but He loves THE WHOLE WORLD....every tribe, nation, and language. (It is His creation)
It's OK to admit error....just admit it, ask forgiveness and move on. Don't double down claiming you are always right. It does you no favors. Makes someone look prideful and unapproachable. This is Christian discussion board where we have a chance to learn and grow from each other. Not argue over the dumbest stuff..
Besides....where it looks like it gives fuel for Calvinists....it really doesn't. Think it through...don't double down and not give it a second thought. Analyze what I have said carefully.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Wrong. The spiritual washing or purification of the soul (John 4:10,14; 7:37-39) that is accomplished by the Holy Spirit through the word of God (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) at the moment of salvation is not Spirit both times. Also "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (1 Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the washing of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Take your time and elaborate - thank you
Reason why i am asking is that it seems that you are validating 'Spirit' as BOTH the 'water' and the 'Spirit' in John 3:1-10
Whereas JESUS delineates between flesh and spirit = directly pointing to the human child being born of water/womb/flesh
Another member attempted to associate the spiritual water of the word with the 'water' of John 3:1-10
If we were to accept this, then in fact, we would read as follows:
One must be born-again/anew = of the Spirit and of the Spirit
This would disagree with JESUS specifying the distinction between flesh and spirit in the same context.
The context Begins with Jesus asserting a New Birth is Mandatory to enter the kingdom of God.
The first Birth is specified immediately by Nicodemis but he could not understand the Second Birth
JESUS immediately establishes a CONTRAST of TRUTH = That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
1st Birth = that which is flesh is flesh
2nd Birth = that which is Spirit is spirit
In the context and parameter of this passage there are only TWO elements of Birth/being Born = Water and Spirit
IMPORTANT = ONLY the element of Wind is associated and defines Spirit.
We are given these parameters by the LORD and if we obfuscate those TWO elements we change the intended Truth of Scripture.
Which, unfortunately, many seem to think is OK and man's prerogative.
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Acts 8:36 ...and the eunuch said,
See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Acts 8:35 Phillip preached the gospel of Jesus Christ to him, and by the same the eunuch somehow understood he was to be baptized and pointed out water to Phillip (as if Phillip informed him of such a baptism)
The eunuch said,
See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? Acts 8:36
The only thing that should hinder him would be unbelief, since Phillip said,
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.
Makes sense since Jesus even places belief in the gospel before baptism
Hearts can still be purified by faith and have the Holy Ghost before baptism, even John had the Holy Ghost from his mothers womb (Luke 1:15) but still had need to be baptized (Mat 3:14) and Jesus also baptized in water (or rather his own disciples did so) John 4:1-2
The same with the Gentiles, which has already believed, and had the Holy Ghost before being baptized also
Of these Peter says,
Acts 10:47-48 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Acts 8:35 Phillip preached the gospel of Jesus Christ to him, and by the same the eunuch somehow understood he was to be baptized and pointed out water to Phillip (as if Phillip informed him of such a baptism)
The eunuch said,
See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? Acts 8:36
The only thing that should hinder him would be unbelief, since Phillip said,
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.
Makes sense since Jesus even places belief in the gospel before baptism
Hearts can still be purified by faith and have the Holy Ghost before baptism, even John had the Holy Ghost from his mothers womb (Luke 1:15) but still had need to be baptized (Mat 3:14) and Jesus also baptized in water (or rather his own disciples did so) John 4:1-2
The same with the Gentiles, which has already believed, and had the Holy Ghost before being baptized also
Of these Peter says,
Acts 10:47-48 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
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