Only the Apostles were Predestined
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quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Paul's thrust in Romans 5 is one that defines the good news as being for all people.....not just the elect
Only the elect obtain salvation through faith while the rest are blinded
Yes, the free gift is obtained by believing and it came to all men, but not everyone has believed.
As is also said, Ephesians 2:8. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Romans 5
18 Therefore, as through [h]one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one[i] Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 11
7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:
“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”
Paul also taught your belief in Christ God has granted you, Philippians 1, and that would be due to His grace, for by grace are you saved.
27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, 28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but [f]to you of salvation, and that from God. 29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.
Ephesians 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
www.biblegateway.com
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 2 - New King James Version
By Grace Through Faith - And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted...
The elect is the Jewish nation, but elect doesn't mean saved. Neither does predestined. Judas was chosen also, but not for salvation.
Because the Jews were God's elect, the gospel went to them first.
My desire when reading Scripture is to know the true meaning that the Apostles were teaching. They are the Apostles, not John Calvin.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
So nothing in the Book of Ephesians are to be considered instructions from the Lord for the entire Body of Christ?
If true, then that would mean Jesus made an error by including the Book of Ephesians in His canon.
God's Word says it's will for ALL to come to repentance
God predestined ALL to be saved, and then many allowed satan to blind their eyes to prevent them from seeing the Gospel
See - Romans 8:29-30, Romans 1:19-21, Titus 2:11-12, 1 John 2:2, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:1-4, Acts 17:30, John 12:32, Hebrews 2:9, John 3:16, Matthew 5:6
This does not mean it was not possible for Judas to have been saved.
Judas was not saved because he decided to self murdered rather than returning to the Lord in repentance.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
That is because 'context matters'.
Otherwise, the meaning of what God says is distorted and twisted, which some people love it so.
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
The Lord is the One Who impressed upon people what to put in to His Canon and what to leave out.
So I won't be thanking the catholics for anything seeing they are useless being servants of the devil and all.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Yep. It must’ve been the Lord who impressed upon Marcion to eliminate the entire Old Testament, all the Gospels except a plagiarized version of Luke which he renamed “The Gospel of Marcion”, and all the non-Pauline epistles from the first Canon.
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
You shouldn't be reading fake so called bibles.
Jesus' canon has 66 books in it and according to the Lord this is the source of Truth (John 17:17)
Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13)
Lambano
Well-Known Member
How the Bible defines them. They were disciples of Jesus, but leaders in spreading the gospel. Jesus chose them. And they were given to Jesus by the Father.
Do you believe John Calvin was an apostle? Jesus called his teachings "dead."
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
That's what the devil keeps asking as he seeks to sow the seeds of doubt in to people so he can further muddy the waters concerning what Truth is making it so much more easy for him to deceive people.
That is asking the devil's question for him, kinda like a satanic word of knowledge or something. Weird.
Yes, John Calvin was actually an apostle - of the devil
ScottA
Well-Known Member
A general definition is simply: one sent by Christ. Which indeed began with the twelve by name, but continued with the seventy also, and a commandment to pray for more to be sent into His harvest.
I know very little about John Calvin. But, how is it that Jesus "called his teachings dead"...didn't he live well after Christ was crucified and ascended?
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Scott, there are more than 1 office. Epheshian 4:11 "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,"
The 70 were evangelists. Timothy was a pastor. God spoke to me and told me He was giving me the office of Teacher. Thus I don't teach anything He hasn't taught me Himself, and what He taught me is completely different from what I was raised with. And I'm still learning. And if I ask Him a question, He answers the question either immediately, or first thing in the morning as I am just waking up and hear the answer.
Paul was the 12th apostle, replacing Judas. As usual for Peter, he jumped the gun and didn't wait for the Holy Spirit, but used a gambling technique to fill the place of Judas with one of the 70.
The letters to the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3 are also prophetic, but couldn't be seen as such until we can look back at church history and they are in order. Revelation 3:1 (Sardis) is the Reformation. Those at the very beginning, like Luther and Calvin had a reputation, "name" that they are alive, but they are dead." Then in verse 4 we see fighters against Calvinism who " 4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy." That is obviously John and Charles Wesley. They were the forerunners of the Pentecostals, the Philadelphian church who kept all of God's word, thus were not cessationists that was a doctrine from Calvin, himself to remove the belief in the gifts of the Holy Spirit that are alive and well.
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
As I said before there is no contest if both are of God. The problem is you have questioned and challenged me in declaring what is true from God, while you sight support or confirmation of your position on predestination with your explanation of church history. Which is an oxymoron...and does not align with the prophecies of great apostacy occurring during the church age until the finish of the mystery of God which He declared to His servants the prophets, the fulfillment of the sealed portions of scripture given to Daniel and John, only to occur near the end when the seventh angel is about to sound. I say oxymoron, because history and predestination do not actually mix. Predestination simply explains that history is not an accurate account of the events of God, but is rather the order of revelations--here a little there a little--regarding all that was before the foundation of the world. Which the Wesley's, nor even any of the twelve had full knowledge of, as was the case with John--for it was not to be revealed until now. Which I too would not now be able to utter, if it were not given to me alone to proclaim.
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