Should sin triumph over grace in the end?

[St. SteVen]

Short commentary.

You see, God's love (also called charity) is a pure gift from him to be received and shared. The spiritual gift of love is the only type of love that fulfills the deepest longings of our hearts. Like all gifts, it must first be received and cherished, and then it allows us to love ourselves and others as God does.

Of course. I'm onboard with that.
But the commands are a tall order if I am honest with myself.

With all my heart and with all my soul and with all my mind?
- Was my heart given to NOTHING else? (no other loves)
- Was my soul given to NOTHING else? (no other interests)
- Was my mind given to NOTHING else? (no other thoughts)

And my neighbor as myself?
- Did I buy groceries for my neighbor before myself?
- Did I check to see what they needed before I went to the store?
- Did I pray for them when they were sick?
- Did I help them financially as needed?

--- GUILTY AS CHARGED ---

And love myself? (the hidden command)
- Do I always love myself?

The Parenthetical Greatest Commandment = Love Yourself!

A follow-up to this forum topic. Commanded to love God more than we love ourselves? This is easy to overlook, but well worth discussing. IMHO Jesus said, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ Mark 12:30-31 NIV Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your...

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[Eternally Grateful]

I heartily agree, brother. Christians should always strive as hard as we can to not ever sin.

In 1 John 1:8-10, the apostle John had just said that we all have sinned, and that if we deny it, we are a liar. Notice:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Now John continues in 1 John 2:
1 John 2:1-5 1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.

We have an Advocate, Jesus Christ, who sits on the right hand of the Father. He is our Defender and when we happen to fall short of the glory of God and we repent of our sins, we have Him as our Advocate to represent us right there in heaven before the throne of God. We all sin and fall short of God's standards sometimes. Confessing our sins when we realize our sin is crucial. God promises to forgive and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Thank You, Jesus.

amen

for anyone to claim they are without sin is just to fail to acknowledge what God says about them.

in my view, they are stunted (if they are saved) and can not grow. you can not grow if you can not acknowledge your own mistakes (sin)

 

[Ritajanice]

Of course. I'm onboard with that.
But the commands are a tall order if I am honest with myself.

With all my heart and with all my soul and with all my mind?
- Was my heart given to NOTHING else? (no other loves)
- Was my soul given to NOTHING else? (no other interests)
- Was my mind given to NOTHING else? (no other thoughts)

And my neighbor as myself?
- Did I buy groceries for my neighbor before myself?
- Did I check to see what they needed before I went to the store?
- Did I pray for them when they were sick?
- Did I help them financially as needed?

--- GUILTY AS CHARGED ---

And love myself? (the hidden command)
- Do I always love myself?

The Parenthetical Greatest Commandment = Love Yourself!

A follow-up to this forum topic. Commanded to love God more than we love ourselves? This is easy to overlook, but well worth discussing. IMHO Jesus said, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ Mark 12:30-31 NIV Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your...

www.christianityboard.com

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Ok, well thanks for explaining.even though I don’t understand your post, I don’t believe we should strive or worry about what we don’t understand..the Spirit will bring it to our understanding in his time....as he’s the one working in our hearts daily.

I used to strive terribly as a new babe, over years of growing and maturing in the spirit, he has shown me just to cast all my worries onto him.so I do..he is the one working everything out according to his purpose and plan for my life..I’m in his will, I keep forgetting that at times..always learning .he constantly reminds me of who is in control...The Spirit...

As his word also says, a Born Again does not sin because they have been Born of God that his seed remains in them...some have no understanding of what that means..that’s why they believe they still sin.that can only come to them by divine heart revelation...

I will, like you, always stand on God’s word and what I believe him to be witnessing to my spirit.
we serve a Living God we don’t serve a Bible.

I can only grow in the Spirit.. not by mans knowledge..growing and maturing in the Spirit is exciting.

 

[St. SteVen]

Ok, well thanks for explaining.even though I don’t understand your post, I don’t believe we should strive or worry about what we don’t understand..the Spirit will bring it to our understanding in his time....as he’s the one working in our hearts daily.

I agree.
And I don't beat myself up over these issues.
I just want to be honest with myself, honest with God and honest with my WONDERFUL brothers and sisters. xoxo - LOL



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[Ritajanice]

I agree.
And I don't beat myself up over these issues.
I just want to be honest with myself, honest with God and honest with my WONDERFUL brothers and sisters. xoxo - LOL

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God loves it when we come before him with a sincere and honest heart, he certainly knows if we’re faking it, nothing can be hidden from him.

Daily he opens my heart up more to love....and daily I pray he makes me to be more like Jesus....being consistent I call it...keep our eyes, ears focused on Jesus..then the enemy will go elsewhere and find someone else to devour, may they be shown the cunning ways the enemy uses people to ensnare them in his trap...of deceit ,hatred and lies.

 

[St. SteVen]

I was accounting for the Trinity, I mean maybe they like to hang out when its slow LOL?

That would skew the statistics. - LOL

BTW: Welcome to the forum.

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[TigersPaw]

That would skew the statistics. - LOL

BTW: Welcome to the forum.

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Haha, OK that made me laugh. TY for the welcome.

 

[TigersPaw]

Happy Thanks Giving.
And Remember, If You do not Sin. Jesus Died for nothing.

 

[St. SteVen]

And Remember, If You do not Sin. Jesus Died for nothing.

I'll get right on it. - LOL

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[St. SteVen]

New topic:

Turn the other cheek, or turn over some tables? - When do we do what?

This begs some questions about how to best handle the abuse of others. - When do we turn the other cheek? And... - When do we turn over some tables? Jesus did both. Acts 4:18-20 NIV Then they called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. 19 But...

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[St. SteVen]

I was asked recently about my personal belief that "all" people will be saved.

An example was cited of some horrible cruelties that had been delivered mercilessly
upon an individual, resulting in their death. The example, it seems, was given
to prove that God could never forgive such a horrible deed. That justice was demanded.
And by inference, ultimate redemption and salvation could not be the result.

This would not be justice, in human eyes. Therein lies the problem.

Is there any sin that humankind is capable of that the Atonement did not cover?
Was God only planning to redeem the righteous?

What if the cruel individuals described later came to confession of their sin and repentance?
Would God withhold forgiveness?

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[Behold]

Is there any sin that humankind is capable of that the Atonement did not cover?

Universalism is a lie of Satan.
Its one of many that he has up and running, using Tools to deliver his lie that "everyone is already saved".

This reason this particular theology blasphemes the Holy Spirit, is because.. when YOU tell someone they are already atoned for..
= already SAVED.. already a CHRISTIAN.........when in fact they are not.. .and you have deceived them to believe this lie @St. SteVen .. then you have created a situation whereby the Holy Spirit wont be able to lead them to Jesus so that they can be saved, because you've already deceived them into believe they are already a Christian.

 

[Behold]

The Cross of Christ... is the Atonement.. but it has to be received by FAITH.......its not automatically applied to you, just because you are breathing.

See, God sends out Preachers to give the Gospel, so that everyone has a chance to BELIEVE in JESUS>...and be SAVED and become born again.

YOU as a Christian are to lead people to Christ........and you would not need to do that, if everyone is "atoned for" already, as lying Universalist's teach.

Universalists... these Satan Duped deceivers..........will tell you that if you are born, you are already saved.

Dont believe their lie.

The Cross of Christ is where God OFFERS you His "Gift of Salvation".........and you have to come and GET IT.. by FAITH.

You have to receive Christ as your Savior, by "FAITH" or you will die without Him, and Hell is accepting those all the time.... 24/7.

Don't let a "universalist" lead you hell.

 

[St. SteVen]

I was asked recently about my personal belief that "all" people will be saved.

An example was cited of some horrible cruelties that had been delivered mercilessly
upon an individual, resulting in their death. The example, it seems, was given
to prove that God could never forgive such a horrible deed. That justice was demanded.
And by inference, ultimate redemption and salvation could not be the result.
This would not be justice, in human eyes. Therein lies the problem.

Is there any sin that humankind is capable of that the Atonement did not cover?
Was God only planning to redeem the righteous?

What if the cruel individuals described later came to confession of their sin and repentance?
Would God withhold forgiveness?

Yes, I believe everyone is already saved due to
the complete work of Christ on the cross.

But this does not mean that there will not be a judgement/evaluation of each individual.
It's not a free pass into heaven. In fact I believe that some who think they have any easy way in
will face some serious corrective measures. Jesus had this to say.

Matthew 21:31 NIV
... Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes
are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.

Should sin triumph over grace in the end?

As humans we have a desire for revenge. This desire is sinful. IMHO

We are told in scripture not to take take revenge. A sin for us.
Most believe that this means that God can take revenge for us.

But I believe that...
God does not operate at a lower standard than he holds us to.
In fact, Jesus teaches us that it is godly behavior to love our enemies.
What then should he do with his own enemies?

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good,
and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?
Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people,
what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


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[VictoryinJesus]

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good,
and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?
Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people,
what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

I’ve been thinking about this lately. I’ve never connected 1 Peter 2:18-20 with the above until recently. ‘Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are harsh. [19] For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a person endures grief when suffering unjustly. [20] For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God.’ (Wow, finding favor with God instead of men?)

All around this passage in 1 Peter 2 helps, what comes before it and after. It elaborates on Matthew 5:43-48 …I just didn’t post all of it because then 18-20 connection to Matthew 5: 43-48 gets obscured.

LOVE: 1 Peter 2:1-3 Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander, [2] and like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation, [3] if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord.
* a side I also just noticed is, when Paul says 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. [2] I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for Herero you were not able to bear it, neither yet now are you able. [3] For you are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are you not carnal, and walk as men?
*** I’ve heard so many look down on and boast at how some are in need of milk and not ready yet for the meat. They are essentially boasting in themselves against the pure milk by which newborn babies may grow up to maturity. What is the pure milk? I wonder could it be newborns by the pure milk grow: if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord.

1 Peter 2:1-3 urges putting away …ridding all malice, all deceit, and hypocrisy, envy and slander ..longing for the pure milk so that by it you may grow…I never noticed what milk Paul was feeding them with that by it they could grow as newborn babies longing for the pure milk.

^what are they not able yet to bear? …
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?
Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people,
what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

A sobering reminder in 1 Peter 2:1-3

1 Peter 2:13 Lexicon: Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,

 

[Bob]

I was asked recently about my personal belief that "all" people will be saved.

An example was cited of some horrible cruelties that had been delivered mercilessly
upon an individual, resulting in their death. The example, it seems, was given
to prove that God could never forgive such a horrible deed. That justice was demanded.
And by inference, ultimate redemption and salvation could not be the result.
This would not be justice, in human eyes. Therein lies the problem.

Is there any sin that humankind is capable of that the Atonement did not cover?
Was God only planning to redeem the righteous?

What if the cruel individuals described later came to confession of their sin and repentance?
Would God withhold forgiveness?

Yes, I believe everyone is already saved due to
the complete work of Christ on the cross.

But this does not mean that there will not be a judgement/evaluation of each individual.
It's not a free pass into heaven. In fact I believe that some who think they have any easy way in
will face some serious corrective measures. Jesus had this to say.

Matthew 21:31 NIV
... Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes
are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.

Should sin triumph over grace in the end?

As humans we have a desire for revenge. This desire is sinful. IMHO

We are told in scripture not to take take revenge. A sin for us.
Most believe that this means that God can take revenge for us.

But I believe that...
God does not operate at a lower standard than he holds us to.
In fact, Jesus teaches us that it is godly behavior to love our enemies.
What then should he do with his own enemies?

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good,
and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?
Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people,
what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


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Thank you for exploring this topic.

Is your conclusion “all CAN be saved”?

If someone refuses to atone, if someone rejects God, scriptures surely say salvation will not be there. As to the eternal outcome, we have had this discussion before.

Blessings.

 

[St. SteVen]

Thank you for exploring this topic.

Is your conclusion “all CAN be saved”?

If someone refuses to atone, if someone rejects God, scriptures surely say salvation will not be there. As to the eternal outcome, we have had this discussion before.

Blessings.

Thanks, Bob.

In my view the atonement was a complete work done on behalf of ALL humankind.
It's paid in full and cannot be undone by the will of humans. God's will is that all be saved.
This doesn't mean that individual restoration of our relationship with God will not be required.
But the death penalty for sin has already been paid in full.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

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[VictoryinJesus]

Thanks, Bob.

In my view the atonement was a complete work done on behalf of ALL humankind.
It's paid in full and cannot be undone by the will of humans. God's will is that all be saved.
This doesn't mean that individual restoration of our relationship with God will not be required.
But the death penalty for sin has already been paid in full.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

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love
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Is there a difference between reconciled to God by the death of his Son
And
Much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
I’m wondering if the difference is …that is why so many among you and sick and do sleep. The difference in not yet resurrected to walk in His life.
Another reference is He who hates his brother remains in darkness still.

 

[Wick Stick]

Thanks, Bob.

In my view the atonement was a complete work done on behalf of ALL humankind.
It's paid in full and cannot be undone by the will of humans. God's will is that all be saved.
This doesn't mean that individual restoration of our relationship with God will not be required.
But the death penalty for sin has already been paid in full.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

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What if I don't wanna live forever?

 

[St. SteVen]

What if I don't wanna live forever?

Not a choice you want to make on this side of the afterlife. ???

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