Should sin triumph over grace in the end?

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Bob

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Thank you for the novel exchange.

Consider the following: if life finds its fullest meaning in service to others, how might that continue in the eternal? Does it make any sense that people in heaven need assistance and that others there can render it? Perhaps blessed alternatives will be presented (in God we trust).

Might angelic service be a possibility? (After all, there will always be need for a starry message who appears at a special time to announce, “Behold! . . . . “)

Blessings.
 
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St. SteVen

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Thank you for the novel exchange.

Consider the following: if life finds its fullest meaning in service to others, how might that continue in the eternal? Does it make any sense that people in heaven need assistance and that others there can render it? Perhaps blessed alternatives will be presented (in God we trust).

Might angelic service be a possibility? (After all, there will always be need for a starry message who appears at a special time to announce, “Behold! . . . . “)

Blessings.
Interesting questions, thanks.
I suspect that God will have work for us to do.
Hard to imagine what that might be.
What would you do with a kingdom of kings and priests?

[
 

MatthewG

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There is only one sin that remains.

The sin of unbelief. It's called faithlessness.

Yahavah lives in (because every soul is God-given) all people, whether or not people spiritually awake, it is a choice which they have to make.


Faith, or no faith.
 

St. SteVen

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I was asked recently about my personal belief that "all" people will be saved.

An example was cited of some horrible cruelties that had been delivered mercilessly
upon an individual, resulting in their death. The example, it seems, was given
to prove that God could never forgive such a horrible deed. That justice was demanded.
And by inference, ultimate redemption and salvation could not be the result.
This would not be justice, in human eyes. Therein lies the problem.

Is there any sin that humankind is capable of that the Atonement did not cover?
Was God only planning to redeem the righteous?

What if the cruel individuals described later came to confession of their sin and repentance?
Would God withhold forgiveness?

Yes, I believe everyone is already saved due to the
complete work of Christ on the cross.
(the atonement)

But this does not mean that there will not be a judgement/evaluation of each individual.
It's not a free pass into heaven. In fact I believe that some who think they have any easy way in
will face some serious corrective measures. Jesus had this to say.

Matthew 21:31 NIV
... Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes
are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.

Should sin triumph over grace in the end?

As humans we have a desire for revenge. This desire is sinful. IMHO

We are told in scripture not to take take revenge. A sin for us.
Most believe that this means that God can take revenge for us.

But I believe that God does not operate a lower standard than he holds us to.
In fact, Jesus teaches us that it is godly behavior to love our enemies.
What then should he do with his own enemies?

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good,
and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?
Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people,
what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
 

Grailhunter

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2nd Corinthians :5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad..

Matthew 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.

Philippians 2:12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:3-5 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Mt:12:36: But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Mt:5:22: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mt:7:2: For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Hebrews 6:4-8
4: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5: And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7: For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Hebrews 10: 26-31
26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27: But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28: He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30: For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31: It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

2nd Peter 2:4-22
4: For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment 5: And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6: And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; 7: And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds 9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 10: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11: Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12: But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they nderstand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13: And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14: Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16: But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. 17: These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18: For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19: While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21: For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22: But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

2Pt:2:9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

2Pt:3:7: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Jude:1:15: To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Rom:1:32: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Rom:5:12: Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Rom:6:12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Rom:6:13: Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Rom:6:16: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

1Cor:15:56: The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Gal:3:22: But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Rom:3:23: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

1Cor:6:18: Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth sexual immorality sinneth against his own body.
 

Behold

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Is there any sin that humankind is capable of that the Atonement did not cover?

Yes, there is one sin that the Atonment does not cover.

A.) = its the sin of dying never forgiven your sin because you never trusted in Christ before you died, and were not born again.

Jesus explains that you have "died IN YOUR SINS"..

This sin, is the 'unpardonable sin".... its the sin of never being forgiven your sin before you died.....so, you die unforgiven, and you can't be forgiven after you die.
So, you have commiteed the un-pardonable sin, of dying never forgiven because you never trusted in Christ for Forgiveness, before you died.

Now, There are several Satanic Gospels that teach that you dont have to be forgiven before you die... and so they are teaching the demonic Lie that you can commit the unpardonable sin, and die, and still go to Heaven.

On this Forum, @St. SteVen will tell you that you can die as a Christ Rejector, never forgiven, never born again......and you'll still go to Heaven.

So, extremely deceived people like this, are a curse to a "Christian" forum most of all, because they present a false gospel that can lead an unbeliever to Hell, who might show up and read their false gospel and believe it.

MODS should not allow this false gospel (Universalism) to be taught on this Forum.
 

Behold

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Paul teaches that sin cannont overcome God's Grace, that is the "blood atonment".

"Where sin abounds, GRACE (the Blood of Jesus) more Abounds"......Paul teaches.
 

ScottA

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I was asked recently about my personal belief that "all" people will be saved.

An example was cited of some horrible cruelties that had been delivered mercilessly
upon an individual, resulting in their death. The example, it seems, was given
to prove that God could never forgive such a horrible deed. That justice was demanded.
And by inference, ultimate redemption and salvation could not be the result.
This would not be justice, in human eyes. Therein lies the problem.

Is there any sin that humankind is capable of that the Atonement did not cover?
Was God only planning to redeem the righteous?

What if the cruel individuals described later came to confession of their sin and repentance?
Would God withhold forgiveness?

Yes, I believe everyone is already saved due to the complete work of Christ on the cross.

But this does not mean that there will not be a judgement/evaluation of each individual.
It's not a free pass into heaven. In fact I believe that some who think they have any easy way in
will face some serious corrective measures. Jesus had this to say.

Matthew 21:31 NIV
... Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes
are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.

Should sin triumph over grace in the end?

As humans we have a desire for revenge. This desire is sinful. IMHO


We are told in scripture not to take take revenge. A sin for us.
Most believe that this means that God can take revenge for us.


But I believe that God does not operate a lower standard than he holds us to.
In fact, Jesus teaches us that it is godly behavior to love our enemies.
What then should he do with his own enemies?


Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good,
and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?
Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people,
what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


[
Ugh...another Salvation-For-Everyone (good or evil) thread!

And again, no.

God Himself does also love His enemies--His sunshine and rain falls equally on both the evil and the good. This is love. But it is not received equally, and His perfection is limited to those who receive it. This too is perfect--not perfect for those who do not receive it--but perfect judgment.
 

St. SteVen

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Ugh...another Salvation-For-Everyone (good or evil) thread!

And again, no.
If you hate them so much, why do you join?

God Himself does also love His enemies--His sunshine and rain falls equally on both the evil and the good. This is love. But it is not received equally, and His perfection is limited to those who receive it. This too is perfect--not perfect for those who do not receive it--but perfect judgment.
Those burning forever can appreciate that they got the same sun and rain as everyone else. ??? - LOL

Ten seconds in hell would be enough for anyone to get the message.
Anything beyond that is senseless and sadistic torture.

1----2----3----4----5----6----7----8----9----10----

[
 
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ProverbsInPink

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If you hate them so much, why do you join?


Those burning forever can appreciate that they got the same sun and rain as everyone else. ??? - LOL

Ten seconds in hell would be enough for anyone to get the message.
Anything beyond that is senseless and sadistic torture.

1----2----3----4----5----6----7----8----9----10----

[
Everyone is as God made them.
 
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Aunty Jane

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Those burning forever can appreciate that they got the same sun and rain as everyone else. ??? - LOL
A correct understanding about death makes all those idiotic doctrines disappear. No one is going to “burn forever”...the Bible does not ever say that. It’s “the smoke of their torment that ascends forever and ever”, like the aftermath of a wildfire that destroys everything in its path...the smouldering remains as a reminder of what took place there.....

God has no reason to keep the wicked alive, when he said that he grants everlasting life only to the righteous. The dead remain forever dead....never even to be remembered.
Free will remains as the gift it was intended to be, but learning to drive it involved first hand experience as to where it’s abuse would take us. The deterrent effect. Would we ever want to let that genie out of the bottle again?
Ten seconds in hell would be enough for anyone to get the message.
Anything beyond that is senseless and sadistic torture.
Anyone who thinks God can be a sadistic fiend, who somehow demands such a punishment, is secretly one themselves, creating a god in their own image, rather than looking at Christ as the true representation of his loving Father on earth.
He was sent to sinners so that they too could repent and receive God’s forgiveness. Jesus was gentle and kind to those who approached him to learn about the God he came to teach them about.....he was not remotely like the one that the Pharisees preached....sin and punishment focused.

Once you learn what “Gehenna” is, and what it represented, everything that Jesus said about it metaphorically, makes sense. Everlasting life is contrasted with everlasting death.....it’s not more complicated than that. Not all are saved, because it requires something from us....and not all want to “do the will of God” because their own will is more important.

We can’t tell God how to be God. He is the one who teaches us how to be “human”.
 
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Hiddenthings

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A correct understanding about death makes all those idiotic doctrines disappear
Imagine if this was understood correctly - so many false teachings would fall away and then the reality of Christ death and resurrection could be known.
 

ScottA

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If you hate them so much, why do you join?


Those burning forever can appreciate that they got the same sun and rain as everyone else. ??? - LOL

Ten seconds in hell would be enough for anyone to get the message.
Anything beyond that is senseless and sadistic torture.

1----2----3----4----5----6----7----8----9----10----
Your laughing out loud (LOL) in rsponse to what is written, shows that you "know not what you do", for spiritually His sun is His Son and the rain is His Spirit. ☹️
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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The wages of Sin is Death !

Where their is Virtue is growth spring forth Hope.

So a Generation ? that is pointed out in the Bible so many times. their fate !
Socialism creates Slobs that is like a Cancer in society, of miss fits that think that the world owes them a living ! but they are nothing but cry babys !
Their type of Mob never created anything of virtue of greatness because they cry about greatness because they reject all that is truly great !
A Nillist ! Oh Nillist gods, what do you want us to do !
Nothing !
Sweet !