Is it possible to lose salvation?

[Big Boy Johnson]

You may be correct. Had I died while backslidden, I may indeed have gone to hell.

Its not Gods counsel I am rejecting, its yours.

You definitely would have gone to hell because corruption cannot inherit incorruption - 1 Corinthians 15:50

And here is where my Father and your Father are different. My Father is powerful enough to protect His children in all circumstances, and to keep them from death. And delights to do so.

Actually the "father" you claim to be following does not abide by His Own Word.

Romans 11:21,22
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Clearly, if one does not continue IN the Lord and His goodness they shall be cut off

The OSAS folks believe they are free to live in sin since they think one can walk in darkness and still be in fellowship with the Lord.

This has been satan's message to mankind since the garden of eden that man can disobey the Lord and not die spiritually which is separation from the Lord

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

1 John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

The OSAS folks must ignore or deny God's warnings which prove OSAS is not a true biblical doctrine.

Eternal Security only applies to those that abide IN Christ.

When someone sins, they are no longer abiding IN Christ because they just chose to turn away from Him to walk in darkness.
Now they need to sow to the Spirit to be in right standing with the Lord once again thru repentance - Proverbs 28:13 and 1 John 1:9

Of course the OSAS folks claim we are still in right standing with the Lord even if we turn away from Him and walk in darkness which is one of the many ways we know OSAS doctrine is not of God because it blatantly opposes what God says in His Word.

 

[amigo de christo]

Its not Gods counsel I am rejecting, its yours.

My God is my Father and friend.
Christ is my Brother and friend.
The Spirit of Christ is my comforter, my counselor, and friend.
And this Great God, who loves me, promised me long ago that His grace would be sufficient for me, and that He would never leave me nor forsake me.

You may be correct. Had I died while backslidden, I may indeed have gone to hell.

Dang!

I felt stupid and faithless just typing that.
Its such an absurd statement, and it flies in the face of everything I have learned of my Father through the years.

But I'll play along.

IF I had died, IF.

My Father is powerful enough to protect His children in all circumstances, especially disobedience, and to keep them from death.
In fact, He delights to do so.

I just want to ask you one question .
It has nothing to do with this thread
but still its an real simple one .
I hope you answer this .
Tell me what do you think about the co exist finding common ground interfaith .
Is it a gift from GOD to help us
or is it of anti christ .
How do you see this .

 

[Jesus Wept]

I just want to ask you one question .
It has nothing to do with this thread
but still its an real simple one .
I hope you answer this .
Tell me what do you think about the co exist finding common ground interfaith .
Is it a gift from GOD to help us
or is it of anti christ .
How do you see this .

There is only one faith that redeems, faith in Christ. Should I coexist peacefully, humbly and lovingly with those of another faith, or no faith at all? I've tried to do so my entire life. Sometimes that love is expressed through the sharing of my faith, at other times its simply sharing the love of Christ.

I minister to the homeless as much as my limited resources allow, and sometimes I share Christ with them. Other times its clear that they have no interest in the Gospel, which in no way changes my attitude about helping them.

We can love people without agreeing with them. In fact, I'm pretty sure that doing so has never been optional.

 

[amigo de christo]

There is only one faith that redeems, faith in Christ. Should I coexist peacefully, humbly and lovingly with those of another faith, or no faith at all? I've tried to do so my entire life. Sometimes that love is expressed through the sharing of my faith, at other times its simply sharing the love of Christ.

I minister to the homeless as much as my limited resources allow, and sometimes I share Christ with them. Other times its clear that they have no interest in the Gospel, which in no way changes my attitude about helping them.

We can love people without agreeing with them. In fact, I'm pretty sure that doing so has never been optional.

without a doubt we are good to them .
But interfaith co exist IS of anti christ . No doubt in my mind , not even a glimmer of a doubt .
But of course we are not hate no one .
Wanna hear something , however , that is hate and yet most think its love and loving .
YE have heard todays people of the false love camp say
YE shall not correct brethren in sin . YE shall sit and hug and love them .
BUT i say
YE shall not hate your neighbor in your heart , That you shall correct them and not allow sin upon them .
BUT i did not say that first . GOD DID .
Interfaith finding common ground interreligious dialgoue IS of satan , it is of anti christ .
I watched them tell the false religoins
THEY ALL know GOD and are coming to GOD in different ways . TALK about ANTI CHRIST .
I know , i know everyone thinks this is how we shall attain peace n safety .
BUT i say , IT WILL BE SUDDEN Destruction upon them all .
We gots to get back to preaching JESUS and the abosolute DIRE NEED to beleive on HIM .
And we better well know JESUS aint the minstir of sin . SO he wont be kissing korans and budda statues
or holding rainbows and money loving either . This was but a friendly , but dire necessary reminder
for us all . Thanks for responding my friend . Now to the trenches we have souls in dire need of
JESUS .

 

[Jesus Wept]

without a doubt we are good to them .
But interfaith co exist IS of anti christ . No doubt in my mind , not even a glimmer of a doubt .
But of course we are not hate no one .
Wanna hear something , however , that is hate and yet most think its love and loving .
YE have heard todays people of the false love camp say
YE shall not correct brethren in sin . YE shall sit and hug and love them .
BUT i say
YE shall not hate your neighbor in your heart , That you shall correct them and not allow sin upon them .
BUT i did not say that first . GOD DID .
Interfaith finding common ground interreligious dialgoue IS of satan , it is of anti christ .
I watched them tell the false religoins
THEY ALL know GOD and are coming to GOD in different ways . TALK about ANTI CHRIST .
I know , i know everyone thinks this is how we shall attain peace n safety .
BUT i say , IT WILL BE SUDDEN Destruction upon them all .
We gots to get back to preaching JESUS and the abosolute DIRE NEED to beleive on HIM .
And we better well know JESUS aint the minstir of sin . SO he wont be kissing korans and budda statues
or holding rainbows and money loving either . This was but a friendly , but dire necessary reminder
for us all . Thanks for responding my friend . Now to the trenches we have souls in dire need of
JESUS .

Was it Lambano who said, "Just like guns, presume that all questions are loaded?

I'm glad you were able to get all that off your chest.

And you're welcome to come over and confront my neighbors anytime you like.
Bring Kevlar.

 

[amigo de christo]

Was it Lambano who said, "Just like guns, presume that all questions are loaded?

I'm glad you were able to get all that off your chest.

And you're welcome to come over and confront my neighbors anytime you like.
Bring Kevlar.

Its real simple my friend .
real simple .
If at any time i have talked to one OF JESUS
and they reject and wont hear
I MOVE on , shake the dust off . ya cant beat the truth into anyone
But speak the truth and if one hears not , That is on them . We did our part .

 

[pandaflower]

Maybe a comparative analogy will help.

If someone is drowning in the ocean and the lifeguard saves them,can they then in that moment drown?

No.

Not unless that lifeguard throws them back into the ocean.

Which is something Jesus tells us will never happen.
Of all whom the father gives Jesus,he shall lose none.

Even if a sheep strays from the herd,Jesus,the shepherd,will leave the flock so to bring the stray,backslider,home.

Salvation is forever.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Even if a sheep strays from the herd,Jesus,the shepherd,will leave the flock so to bring the stray,backslider,home.

Yeah so give us chapter and verse showing where the Lord FORCES people to walk with Him and refrain from going back to living in sin.

I'll check back later as this should be interesting!

 

[Kokyu]

Maybe a comparative analogy will help.

If someone is drowning in the ocean and the lifeguard saves them,can they then in that moment drown?

No.

Not unless that lifeguard throws them back into the ocean.

Which is something Jesus tells us will never happen.
Of all whom the father gives Jesus,he shall lose none.

Even if a sheep strays from the herd,Jesus,the shepherd,will leave the flock so to bring the stray,backslider,home.

Salvation is forever.

What the saved-and-lost crowd want to propose is something akin to a man drowning at sea who is, at the last moment, pulled from the water by a passing fishing boat. The almost-drowned man lies on the deck of the fishing boat gasping for air, and trembling with cold and fear at his near-death experience.

"You okay?" the fisherman asks, kindly.

"Yeah, I'll be all right. Thanks. If you hadn't got me when you did, I'd have drowned for sure." the soaked and shivering man replies.

"I'm happy to have saved you from an awful death," the fisherman says. He tosses the rescued man a big, fluffy towel. "Dry off, rest a bit and then I'll throw you back in."

"What?" the rescued man gasps in surprise. "What do you mean 'throw you back in'?

"Well, you don't expect me to get you all the way to shore without your doing something to get there, do you? I don't mind saving you from drowning, but you're going to have to earn the safety of land, buddy. As soon as you're rested, back in to the water you're going," the fisherman warned ominously.

Stunned, the "rescued" man repeats, "What?"

The fisherman smiles broadly as he observes the almost-drowned man's terror. "It's okay. I'll keep the boat alongside you as you swim to shore. It's a long way, I know, but if you start to drown again, I'll urge you on, and prod you with this gaffing hook and, if things get really bad, I'll let you hang onto this rope 'til you're ready to swim some more."

His eyes filled with horror, the almost-drowned man cries, "But I don't know how to swim! And your rope is no help if I'm too weak and cold to grasp it! I'll drown if I go back into the sea!"

A gentle, understanding smile on his face, the fisherman replies, "Just do your best. I've saved you but now you must keep yourself saved. I do my part and you do yours. We're a team, you see."

"But I told you, I can't swim! And I'm far too weak to make it shore! It's a hundred miles away, at least!"

Waving his hands in a placating way, the fisherman says, "It's okay, it's okay. I'll tell you how to swim. As you're going along, I'll give you pointers about your form, and in what direction to go and how fast. This is the best I can do, as far as saving you is concerned."

The almost-drowned man staggers to his feet and says, "You aren't listening to me! I can't make it to shore on my own. I don't know how to swim and I'm exhausted! If you throw me back in the water, I'll die! Do you hear me? I'll die!"

"Fear is a good motivator, isn't it?" the fisherman says, his tone low and intense. "There's nothing like the constant fear you'll die to wring the best out of you!"

With that, the fisherman grips the almost-drowned man at the shoulders, heaves him up from the deck and hurls him into the tossing waves. With a self-satisfied smile, the fisherman murmurs to himself, "What a wonderful savior I am."

----

I don't know about you, but this version of a "savior" is monstrous and obscene. This "Jesus saves me but I keep myself saved" view is, though, essentially what the works-salvation/saved-and-lost folk propose is the kind of "salvation" God extends to them in the Savior, Jesus Christ. It is no salvation at all, really.

 

[LoveYeshua]

I don't think that verse says anything about losing salvation. I think it is talking about finding our way to God's calling us to his salvation and amid the clamour of this world.

No but it proves that contrary to some beliefs that "everyone is saved" it is not the case. Than is what I wanted to say here, Jesus said clearly only few find the way. So it becomes clear many will hear the gospel but for different reasons jesus explained few will make it.
This path to salvation is not an easy one and requires sacrifice and perseverance, but it is only possible through Christ.

 

[rockytopva]

I believe the one church is made of seven generalized congregations....

1. Ephesus - Messianic
2. Smyrna - Oriental Orthodox - The Roman persecutions were ten
3. Pergamos - Greek Orthodox - Pergos... A tower... Needed in the dark ages
4. Thyatira - Catholic - Middle ages
5. Sardis - Protestant - A sardis is a gem... Beautiful,,, Not much spiritually
6. Philadelphia - Wesleyan - Too bad the revivals didn't last longer
7. Laodicean - Word of Faith - Rich and have need of nothing?

Seven candlesticks - Seven generalized congregation - All unique one to another
Seven seals - Those names written in the Lambs Book of Life
Seven stars - Those messengers to the congregations

So... Who is saved? Who are the good Catholics? Who are the right Protestants? Who are the revived Philadelphians? Who in Laodicea took their materialism too far? Who are the good wheat? Who are the unsaved tares?

Regarding the Lamb's Book of Life... Sealed with seven seals...

3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. - Revelation 5

The answer is... We do not know! We are not worthy to open the Lamb's Book of Life to see who is where! All we can do is wait for the lamb to open the book of life and see who went where!

Interesting verses regarding removing the name from the Book of Life...

Let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they. - Deuteronomy 9:14

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. - Revelation 3:5

 

[marks]

Except you.

You presume. You don't have the right. You've been bought. It's not up to you.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they. - Deuteronomy 9:14

Exodus 32:31-33 KJV
31) And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.
32) Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
33) And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Much love!

 

[Kokyu]

Yeah so give us chapter and verse showing where the Lord FORCES people to walk with Him and refrain from going back to living in sin.

God "forces" all sorts of things upon us: He imposes our physical features and limitations upon us, never asking if we want to exist and in what particular form (male or female, short or tall, skinny or hefty, etc). He imposes on us the earthly environment into which we are born, forcing us to live under blue skies, and a hot sun, and on land surrounded by vast oceans of water. He imposes on us the length of our days on earth and a binary choice as to our eternal destination. There are all sorts of things God forces on us.

Why, then, is it so difficult to understand that when He saves us, when He changes our fundamental nature, making us "new creations in Christ" (2 Co. 5:17), He does so in an irreversible way? This is the way He did things physically: We can't be unborn, we can't get a body upgrade so we're bigger, or smaller, or have blue eyes instead of brown, etc., we can't get physically reborn into another family or country. Somehow, though, those who are spiritually born-again - BY GOD, not by themselves - think they have the power to undo what God has done, to dissolve their "second birth"; they think that, if they don't like being a "new creature in Christ," they can reverse or dissolve what God has made them to be as His adopted children. But this is to give themselves more power than they have and God a whole lot less.

More importantly, God isn't like us. He's more faithful than we are, more patient, infinitely wiser, merciful and gracious. Among other things, this means that, when we act like "carnal babes in Christ," fractious, and temperamental, and selfish, He handles us just as good earthly parents do their own cranky, squalling, hyper-selfish baby, with love, patience, grace and faithfulness. But where even good human parents may eventually get exhausted, and frazzled, and short on patience with their babies, God has an infinite reservoir of grace, love and wisdom on which to draw and never becomes ill-tempered, impatient or stressed-out, as His creatures do.

And so, in Scripture we see God punishing the disbelief of His Chosen People in Numbers 13-14 when they refused to go in and take the land God had promised to them, but we also see God continuing to protect and provide for them in their forty long years in the wilderness. We see Jonah fleeing from God, rebelling against Him directly, but God responding with enormous patience and kindness to Jonah, with humor, even, prodding Jonah about his bitterness toward the people of Ninevah, carrying Jonah to the city in the belly of a great fish, giving him a shady plant to sit under then withering it up, and so on. We see Christ knocking the Christian-persecuting Saul (later, Paul) to the ground on the Damscus Road (Acts 9), challenging him, and blinding him and telling him to wait in Damascus 'til Christ's servant (Ananias) arrived to instruct him. Though Paul had been arresting and killing Christ's disciples, Christ didn't respond with a crushing hand of divine wrath, but worked to convince Paul to become His servant, instead. And when Paul yields himself to Christ, Paul becomes, in due time, a very prominent figure in the Early Church, full of the Spirit's divine power!

In spite of how often in Scripture God deals with His creatures with grace, patience, mercy and love, some professing Christians try to get their brethren to live in constant fear of Him, telling them there's a "line" they can cross into a lost condition once again, but having no idea where that line is, exactly. They want fellow believers to see God looming over them, a dangerous threat, rather than a loving heavenly Father, and subtly urge their brethren to think they can earn the gift of their salvation, and can just hand back to God His spiritual regeneration and adoption of them if they want to. By this means, they grossly exaggerate their own power and horribly diminish God's and defy the plain declaration of Scripture:

1 John 4:16-19
16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.
17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.
19 We love Him because He first loved us.

Hebrews 13:5
5 Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

John 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

1 Peter 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

John 3:15-16
15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Ephesians 1:11-14
11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory

 

[Ezra]

From what I understand of God's word, the surest and simplest way to know that I'm truly saved is to examine whether or not the life and work of the Holy Spirit is in evidence in my life in the way the Bible says these things will be in the person who's become a "temple" of the Holy Spirit (1 Co. 3:16; 6:19-20). The NT tells me that, if I'm truly a child of God, the Holy Spirit will convict, teach, strengthen, comfort and transform me (Jn. 14:26; 16:8; 16:13; 1 Co. 2:10-16; Eph. 3:16; Phil. 2:13; 2 Co. 1:3-5; 2 Co. 3:18; Ga. 5:22-23, etc.). The Spirit will also give to me his agape "love of the brethren" (1 Jn. 3:14), a hunger for the word of God (Jer. 15:16), and deep longing for holiness (Ro. 1:4; 2 Co. 6:14-18). Through these things the Spirit "bears witness with my spirit that I'm a child of God" (Ro. 8:16).



The Bible tells me I have to do three things every time I sin:

- Repent (Ja. 4:6-10): change my mind about my sin. See the lies that have brought me into sin, reject them, and take up God's truth, instead.

- Confess (1 Jn. 1:9): admit that my sin was what God says it is: sin. Agree with God about my sin, that it was evil, is not in keeping with who I am as His child, and that I ought never again to do it.

- Submit (Ro. 6:13-22; 12:1; Ja. 4:7): Return to a place of submission to God, which I always abandon when I sin. If I don't submit again to God, I remain a rebel toward Him and am cut off from fellowship with Him until this is corrected.

Is this what you mean by "go back to the throne of grace and get grace and mercy"? When I return to God in the way that He's prescribed to me in His word, I find Him like the father of the Prodigal Son, eager to resume joyful fellowship with me. You, too?



I'm not sure what "this" and "this issue" refers to, exactly, in your remark above. The power of sin is broken in the life of every born-again believer and so they never HAVE to sin. See Romans 6. As the Christian walks with God, learning to know and fellowship with Him throughout every day, sin increasingly becomes the exception rather than the rule, the awesome experience the believer enjoys with God crowding out anything that would at all hinder their experience of Him. The idea that a Christian just has to remain mired in a never-ending, desperate battle with sin isn't what the Bible says should be the experience of a child of God. The sin>confession>sin>confession cycle is not normal Christian living, according to Scripture:

Romans 6:1-11
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Colossians 3:1-10
3 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.
2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.
5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience,
7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.
8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth.
9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds,
10 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him,

Galatians 2:20
20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Galatians 5:24
24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Galatians 6:14
14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

The Christian who learns to live in the truth of their death to Self and the World, to live in their co-crucifixion with Christ and the liberty from sin that is the result, will not remain in an unchanging tight cycle of sin>confession>sin>confession.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

on the other hand i know this will not go well.. this issue will never be solved in any of our life time.. so it best we live it the best we can.. not use grace as a reason to sin..

I'm not sure what "this" and "this issue" refers to, exactly, in your remark above..


just exactly what i posted the subject of can or can you not will never be solved by man.. once agin if you live by osas then live by them terms but not a license to sin .. if your osnas live it like you mean it confess your sin ask forgiveness 1 john 1:9 its rather simple.. God is not the author on confusion... man creates that

 

[Ezra]

Why, then, is it so difficult to understand that when He saves us, when He changes our fundamental nature, making us "new creations in Christ" (2 Co. 5:17), He does so in an irreversible way? This is the way He did things physically: We can't be unborn, we can't get a body upgrade so we're bigger, or smaller, or have blue eyes instead of brown, etc., we can't get physically reborn into another family or country. Somehow, though, those who are spiritually born-again - BY GOD, not by themselves - think they have the power to undo what God has done, to dissolve their "second birth"; they think that, if they don't like being a "new creature in Christ," they can reverse or dissolve what God has made them to be as His adopted children. But this is to give themselves more power than they have and God a whole lot less.

having been on both sides of the fence those who are osnas look at as we are not free to sin as we want after salvation.. its the unconfused sin that they feel if you die in will send you to hell.. there are those who use to be in church use to live it walk it breath it.. no longer have the want to or desire . even apostle paul covered that in galatians 5:1 &13 on our liberty and not to use it as reason to sin..

its not so much they believe that any old thing will send you to hell.. just certain standards are to be followed . if we fail to follow those standards as in make No effort that is the the red flag

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

God "forces" all sorts of things upon us

And of course you did not post any scriptures where God specifically says He MAKES people follow Him.

Would you like to take another swing there?

telling them there's a "line" they can cross into a lost condition once again, but having no idea where that line is, exactly.

Here's your dividing line right here:

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Galatians 6:7,8
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

urge their brethren to think they can earn the gift of their salvation

The false gracers keep claiming Christians can live in sin and still be saved.

That is mocking God according to Galatians 6:7,8 which is what the devil has taught them to do is mock God and turn His grace in to lasciviousness spoken of in Jude 1:4

 

[Kokyu]

just exactly what i posted the subject of can or can you not will never be solved by man..

Okay. You're saying the question of whether or not one can lose one's salvation cannot ever be known. Right?

If so, I can't, of course, agree. I think the Bible is crystal clear that my salvation rests entirely in Christ and his finished work at Calvary, not in me. I am "in him" and because he is perfect and thus always accepted by God, being in him, I, too am always accepted by God. Thus, my salvation is eternal, as Scripture says, located, as it is in, the perfect Savior, not in me.

once agin if you live by osas then live by them terms but not a license to sin ..

No one who understands the doctrine of eternal security properly would ever urge a fellow believer to feel free to sin.

if your osnas live it like you mean it confess your sin ask forgiveness 1 john 1:9 its rather simple..

1 John 1:9 doesn't instruct Christians to ask God for forgiveness, only to confess their sins. This is because, in order to have been saved, one's sins had to have been forgiven by God - all of them. In Christ, because of his sacrifice for all of their sins (He. 7-10:22), the Christian has full, complete forgiveness of their sins, and are declared perfectly justified and sanctified by God, as a result.

1 Corinthians 1:2
2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints...

1 Corinthians 1:7-9
7...our Lord Jesus Christ,
8 who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31
30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—
31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

God is not the author on confusion... man creates that

Yes, true. Thank God, then, He's given to us the plain declarations of His word.

having been on both sides of the fence those who are osnas look at as we are not free to sin as we want after salvation.. its the unconfused sin that they feel if you die in will send you to hell.. there are those who use to be in church use to live it walk it breath it.. no longer have the want to or desire . even apostle paul covered that in galatians 5:1 &13 on our liberty and not to use it as reason to sin..

Yes, I understand very well the OSNAS view, as you put it. I have discussed the matter of eternal security many, many times over the last twenty-five years or so. So far, in my experience, the OSNAS folk always, eventually resort to the Strawman/Boogey Man tactic, throwing up the specter of a devilish Christian who plays the licentious antinomian, casting all OSAS proponents in this form.

if we fail to follow those standards as in make No effort that is the the red flag

Absolutely!

 

[marks]

If so, I can't, of course, agree. I think the Bible is crystal clear that my salvation rests entirely in Christ and his finished work at Calvary, not in me. I am "in him" and because he is perfect and thus always accepted by God, being in him, I, too am always accepted by God. Thus, my salvation is eternal, as Scripture says, located, as it is in, the perfect Savior, not in me.

It's so simple! We are reconciled to God in Christ. And Jesus Christ doesn't change. He is our eternal high priest who ever lives to make intercession for us.

I am reconciled to God not by my good behavior, and I won't become "unreconciled" by my bad behavior. It's in Christ alone.

Much love!

 

[Kokyu]

And of course you did not post any scriptures where God specifically says He MAKES people follow Him.

Would you like to take another swing there?

Meet your own standard.

Here's your dividing line right here:

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Galatians 6:7,8
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Hah. This is always the sort of vague reply I get in response to the question of how far is too far. What does it mean, exactly, to "live after the flesh" and to the point of losing one's salvation? What is it, precisely, to "sow to the flesh" sufficiently to dissolve your salvation? You don't say, of course, because you can't say. No one in the SandL camp knows where the line is. Which makes me wonder, of course, if they haven't crossed it themselves. It's easy to do, I think, when you don't know where the line is.

And, also, neither of the above verses say anything about a Christian losing their salvation, only dying and reaping corruption, neither of which thing necessarily refer to the loss of one's salvation.

The false gracers keep claiming Christians can live in sin and still be saved.

That is mocking God according to Galatians 6:7,8 which is what the devil has taught them to do is mock God and turn His grace in to lasciviousness spoken of in Jude 1:4

This is just an obvious deflection from what I wrote. But it's very typical of responses I get from the SandL crowd.