Is it possible to lose salvation?

[marks]

Which one are you marks?

Do you ACT on the words of Jesus....
or do you presume that He didn't mean what He taught?

You would do better to not make this into something it's not. It won't serve you well.

Yes sir,,,unlike youself,,I DO believe that we are to obey God:

I believe we are to obey God because He's recreated us to do good works as well as be with Him. We obey out of love and the desire to be pleasing to God. Not to "stay saved" as if our behavior (a mixed bag at best) is somehow the other half of Jesus Christ fulfilling the Law and then dying in our place.

Personally I think obedience out of my own desire is a higher thing than obedience upon pain of death.

Much love!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I believe we are to obey God because He's recreated us to do good works as well as be with Him. We obey out of love and the desire to be pleasing to God. Not to "stay saved" as if our behavior (a mixed bag at best) is somehow the other half of Jesus Christ fulfilling the Law and then dying in our place.

Personally I think obedience out of my own desire is a higher thing than obedience upon pain of death.

And yet God's Word teaches that thru disobedience we disqualify ourselves from salvation! - Colossians 3:5-6

Only those led by the Holy Spirit are the sons of God and He never leads anybody in to disobedience

 

[GodsGrace]

its no skin off my nose some one wants hold to eternal security or they dont.. i have friends both sides of the fence .. i am not in here to prove either way.. i just enjoy a good discussion yes i have a different view of both teachings.. i like being different

Actually, I understand both points of view too because we all read the bible and we have to come to understand it.
The problem is that we bring our own experiences to scripture and then we end up making excuses for what we believe when what Jesus taught is very plain to read and understand.

 

[GodsGrace]

You would do better to not make this into something it's not. It won't serve you well.

I'm not making this into anything.
YOU are the one posting a belief system that is not found in the bible.
I reserve the right to disagree with you and I post scripture to support what I state.

All you have to do is do the same.
I don't find any verses in the NT that state that God does NOT demand obedience.
Maybe you could show me some?

I believe we are to obey God because He's recreated us to do good works as well as be with Him. We obey out of love and the desire to be pleasing to God. Not to "stay saved" as if our behavior (a mixed bag at best) is somehow the other half of Jesus Christ fulfilling the Law and then dying in our place.

And here is where we disagree.
We are to obey God because He is God.
And yes, it's to STAY SAVED.

If we disobey Jesus...how could we possibly stay saved?
You say Jesus died in our place.
Do you want to discuss atonement theories?
There are quite a few you know.

What I like to stick to is what Jesus taught.
Jesus did NOT teach that HE did everything and we are to do nothing.

First,,,it's important to know what BELIEVE means.
As you know, the NT was written in Greek.
People back then spoke Aramaic but Greek was the lingua franca.
In Greek the word BELIEVE meant that the person believing was to trust, follow, and learn to behave and act in life as the teacher he was believing in. In this case it was Jesus.

Second,,,I think it's important to pay attention to what JESUS taught, not what some pastor on TV taught....for whatever reason.

There was no issue about this in the early church.
The Apostles did not believe in OSAS and those they taught did not believe in OSAS.

We are eternally secure IN CHRIST.
As long as we abide IN CHRIST we will be saved.
This includes obeying Him.

Jesus taught:

John 14:21
Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”

John 8:51
51Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.”


What did Jesus pray?
"YOUR WILL BE DONE,
ON EARTH
AS IT IS IN HEAVEN"


What IS the will of God?
That the saved disobey Him?

Those who believe in OSAS cannot admit that God demands obedience.
They will say that we obey because we love.
But then they will not admit that obedience is necessary.

So, No.
We obey because God DEMANDS IT.
We do not have a choice.

Personally I think obedience out of my own desire is a higher thing than obedience upon pain of death.

Much love!

Then plainly state that we must obey.

Do you have a problem with making this statement?

BTW,,,obedience upon pain of death does not exist.
Those that obey will not see death.

John 8:51 posted above.

 

[marks]

I'm not making this into anything.

Oh yes you are!

You are making it like I don't think it's important to obey God.

And yes, it's to STAY SAVED.

And there you have it. You must obey upon pain of death. How perfect do you have to be? Any sin will separate you from God. How many times have you been "reseparated" from God?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Those who believe in OSAS cannot admit that God demands obedience.

Of course He demands obedience, That's why Jesus had to die. No one obeyed Him. All fall short.

They will say that we obey because we love.
But then they will not admit that obedience is necessary.

You are not purchasing your salvation by your works of obedience, else there would be no need for Jesus to have died.

Are you going to tell me you no longer fall short of God's glory? That you no longer sin?

You complain that I say our sins are forgiven, and we are fully and permanently reconciled to God. Are you saying that God requires obedience to stay saved, and you've done that?

Much love!

 

[GodsGrace]

Oh yes you are!

You are making it like I don't think it's important to obey God.

And there you have it. You must obey upon pain of death. How perfect do you have to be? Any sin will separate you from God. How many times have you been "reseparated" from God?

Much love!

Who said you have to be prefect?
Same ole' strawman I've been hearing for 10 years.

Let's make this easy....
Answer this question plainly and simply:

IS IT NECESSARY TO OBEY GOD AFTER BECOMING SAVED?

All that stuff you write seems to hint at the fact that we could obey, or we could not, depends on if we love God...
it's because we love Him....etc etc.

No.
Let's be clear on this.
Jesus taught that we are to obey God.
He said that we must do this if we want to be included in the Kingdom of God AND the kingdom of heaven.

Why are you arguing about what Jesus taught, as some do?

 

[GodsGrace]

Of course He demands obedience, That's why Jesus had to die. No one obeyed Him. All fall short.

You are not purchasing your salvation by your works of obedience, else there would be no need for Jesus to have died.

Are you going to tell me you no longer fall short of God's glory? That you no longer sin?

You complain that I say our sins are forgiven, and we are fully and permanently reconciled to God. Are you saying that God requires obedience to stay saved, and you've done that?

Much love!

Yes.
I'm saying that God requires our obedience in order to stay saved.

 

[GodsGrace]

@marks
I'm leaving now till tomorrow.
Could you explain the difference between the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant?
Do you think there is a difference?
What is it?

Did God require obedience of the Israelites but not of us?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Could you explain the difference between the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant?

Start with the Book of Hebrews!

 

[Kokyu]

please understand this i am NOT UNSURE ABOUT MY SALVATION THERE IS NO UNCERTAINTY ABOUT MY SALVATION OR THE WORD..

Okay. I don't recall writing that you were unsure about these things but only about which view, OSAS or OSNAS, was correct. You said I shouldn't think that I could know for sure which one was correct. I disagreed. In all of this, though, I didn't say you were unsure of your own personal salvation.

YOU REALLY DONT GET IT DO YOU ?

What I don't get is how your unwillingness to say which view - OSAS or OSNAS - is correct means I should do the same. You seemed to be implying that I shouldn't think I could really know that OSAS was right and OSNAS was wrong. This, I don't get.

 

[Kokyu]

No. The other member does not get it because those that believe as HE does do not WANT to get it.

This is a lie. I understand very well why you read a SandL view into God's word and by what proof texts. And it's precisely because I do understand your view, and God's word, too, that I reject your SandL view as false.

They want to believe that it's not necessary to obey God.

It is not necessary to obey God IN ORDER TO REMAIN SAVED (Eph. 2:8-9; Tit. 3:5-7; 2 Ti. 1:9), but obedience is certainly vital to walking well with God.

They are the blind leading the blind and falling off the cliff.

The pot calling the kettle black, here.

It does not exit in the NT...
and it did not exist in the early church and not until the Reformation...

OSAS is plainly spelled out in God's word and has been for the last 2000 years.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

You complain that I say our sins are forgiven, and we are fully and permanently reconciled to God. ...

Much love!

AMEN! Not my obedient/disobedient behavior, But By His ALL-Sufficient BLOOD Sacrifice!! Hallelujah!!!

 

[Kokyu]

I don't see any scripture to which I could respond.

Why would you? I was talking about how you've misrepresented my own words.

GOD DEMANDS obedience from those that are saved.

Yes. Obviously. I've never said otherwise.

 

[marks]

Who said you have to be prefect?
Same ole' strawman I've been hearing for 10 years.

Let's make this easy....
Answer this question plainly and simply:

IS IT NECESSARY TO OBEY GOD AFTER BECOMING SAVED?

That's just it. You have asserted that you must obey God to remain saved. So have you? Have you obeyed God? 100%? And if not, what percentage is required? Think this through. This is not a straw man. This is testing your assertion.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes.
I'm saying that God requires our obedience in order to stay saved.

100%, which you have done?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Could you explain the difference between the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant?

Law vs. Grace.

Obey or die or be forgiven and recreated so you can be alive.

Sacrifice continually to cover you sin or Jesus' sacrifice is enough to remove our sin.

Much love!

 

[pandaflower]

I would say it is not a matter of God's grace responsible for our salvation if humans have to work to earn salvation.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

No, we don't work to earn our salvation but at the same time disobedience will disqualify people

Luke 13:24
Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life

It's obvious man has some responsibility concerning salvation since ALL scripture is actually true.

Those following OSAS must cherry pick scripture, if they didn't they would have to quit following OSAS