Did Jesus remove all the sin from the world?

[amigo de christo]

Are you judging again.

Good grief. :) Love you!

it seems to me that anything to this generation that they do not want to hear
is called judging .
You go back and read it again
I am trying TO HELP people . but its they who often cast me off , put me on ingore , WHO JUDGE ME
and yet holler judge not .
Today many are fast to overlook sins and errors
unless , yes , unless the person coming to them
is actually correcting sin and errors . THEN its JUDGE NOT
as they cast them out .

 

[MatthewG]

it seems to me that anything to this generation that they do not want to hear
is called judging .
You go back and read it again
I am trying TO HELP people . but its they who often cast me off , put me on ingore , WHO JUDGE ME
and yet holler judge not .
Today many are fast to overlook sins and errors
unless , yes , unless the person coming to them
is actually correcting sin and errors . THEN its JUDGE NOT
as they cast them out .

Jesus took care of the sin, and Yahavah can write on the hearts and minds of those whom are his.

While you may believe you can go around correcting people or whatever, by all means just do whatever you feel you gotta do.

I place God above all others.

 

[Muna]

Speaks of them that sin here (who have have not departed from evil) and what to do here (rebuking the same) so that they might fear (seeing its by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil)

1 Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Similarly here

1 Cr 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

As Jesus says,

Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Which is counted as love versus hating ones brother

Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

 

[Lizbeth]

I never look at Scripture that way. I think it means exactly what it says, not some flowery speech to inspire us all with some feeling of purpose.

I've found this very thing is at the heart of nearly every single disagreement I have with others over the meaning of Scripture. This passage has a specific and exact meaning that fits with the rest of Scripture. I don't think it implies anything, it states something.

Much love!

We can get into trouble if we isolate certain verses and take them too literally. In no way could I consider that the suffering of Jesus was somehow literally lacking or inadequate or came up short.

And maybe a better word than implying would be "conveying"...it is conveying something. It's not flowery speech, but spiritual.

 

[PS95]

Speaks of them that sin here (who have have not departed from evil) and what to do here (rebuking the same) so that they might fear (seeing its by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil)

1 Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Similarly here

1 Cr 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

As Jesus says,

Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Which is counted as love versus hating ones brother

Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

11For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people, 12instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously, and in a godly manner in the present age, 13looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of [j]our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, 14who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, eager for good deeds.
15These things speak and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. No one is to disregard you.

 

[Lizbeth]

It tis time to ask the question that begs to be asked
and to bring the reminders of the simple truth in scrips .
And when you do be prepared to weep and to sorrow .
Many do as they do and ask as they do
NOT BECAUSE THEY DESIRE TO HEAR THE TRUTH
but rather to justify why it is THEY DO and BELIEVE as they do .
Lets make this real simple sister .
The true litmus test to see who loves WHO and what .
BRING THE SCRIPS , BRING HIS WORDS
And be prepared to weep as i have long wept .
THEY WILL TWIST THEM . the ones that get in the way of their true hearts desire
THEY WILL TWIST , OMIT THEM , USE greek , use whatever so called carnal knowledge they can
TO TRY and JUSTIFY ....................a lie .
I have asked some
i have brought some of the simpliest reminders at times
ONLY to see , hermes , greek , AI , whatever theology or etc
from them as to why this no longer applies , or etc .
You wanna know what this reminds me of sister .
Its the response of a rebellious child
that is simply trying to justify why he do , or did not do .
And now the common response from them is
You all worship a book , you all are legalistic , you all dont understand context
you all ................
BUT WHAT I SURE NOTICE THEY DONT BRING to justify themselves , IS THE TRUTH OF SCRIPTURE .
AND WHY ya think that is , cause SCRIPTURE WOULD EXPOSE THEM , NOT JUSTIFY THEM .

I think some may just not be ready for some of the meatier things too though brother. Like in Hebrews...for some it might be they are behind where they ought to be, and for others they just haven't known the Lord very long and are not being taught well. Sometimes it's a matter of pride or self-esteem and need for healing that keeps someone from changing their mind or tweeking what they believe about a thing. Could be any number of reasons unbeknownst to anyone but God, and of course He is the only one who can work in anyone's life and heart. Always we should speak the truth in love but I believe hand in hand with that, there is room for mercy, compassion and patience as well as rebuke or reproof etc when that is called for.

 

[marks]

We can get into trouble if we isolate certain verses and take them too literally. In no way could I consider that the suffering of Jesus was somehow literally lacking or inadequate or came up short.

And maybe a better word than implying would be "conveying"...it is conveying something. It's not flowery speech, but spiritual.

We can get deep into trouble if we don't see God as meaning what He says. Look at the context. Look at the content.

Colossians 1:24-25 KJV
24) Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
25) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

The afflictions of Christ in my flesh . . . Paul's fleshly suffering is considered as though Jesus is suffering.

Saul! Saul! Why are you persecuting Me??

Paul rejoices in his sufferings for these believers, and continues to suffer "the afflictions of Christ" in my flesh. Because it's not meaningless suffering, he knows it will bring salvation and growth to Jesus' body, the Christians.

This verse isn't saying that there is anything lacking in Jesus' suffering to save us. This verse tells us that Christ suffers when we suffer. We are in communion with Him. Why are you persecuting Me? This verse is telling us what we already knew, what God showed Paul in his vision while he was blind, that Paul knows his suffering isn't over, but he's happy to complete it knowing the joyous work being accomplished though it.

We can't just rush past verses that don't seem to make a full and complete sense, taking away an impression of what is written, as if that's all it means, without being able to account for every word.

If your complaint is that I take this passage too literally, complain away, I'll take it as a badge of honor. This is not yanked from context. It fits just fine, and also fits fine with the other passages which speak the same thing. And what I'm saying is exactly what this passage is saying.

Much love!

 

[Lizbeth]

Asking Can you tell me some arguments concerning this bible verse? 1 John 2:2 Microsoft Copilot: Your AI companion

Certainly! 1 John 2:2 says:


This verse has sparked rich theological discussion, especially around the scope of Christ’s atonement. Here are some key arguments and interpretations:

️ Universal Atonement View​

• Christ died for all people, not just believers.
• “Whole world” is taken literally to mean all humanity.
• Supports the idea that salvation is available to everyone, though not all accept it.
• Often cited by Arminian theologians who emphasize free will and universal grace.

Limited Atonement View (Calvinist Perspective)​

• Argues that “whole world” refers to believers across all nations, not every individual.
• Christ’s atonement is effective only for the elect—those predestined to be saved.
• Suggests that “propitiation” implies actual satisfaction of God’s wrath, which wouldn’t apply to those who remain condemned2.

Contextual Interpretation of “World”​

• Some scholars note that John uses “world” in different ways throughout his writings.
  • Sometimes it refers to humanity broadly.
  • Other times it contrasts believers with unbelievers (e.g., 1 John 5:19).
• This view encourages careful reading of the surrounding verses to understand the intended meaning3.

️ Intercession and Propitiation Link​

• The verse connects Christ’s advocacy (v.1) with His sacrificial work.
• Some argue that if Christ intercedes only for believers, then His propitiation must also be limited to them.
• Others counter that His death was sufficient for all, but only applied to those who believe.

Philosophical and Pastoral Implications​

• Raises questions about God’s justice and mercy.
• Encourages believers to reflect on the depth of Christ’s sacrifice.
• Offers comfort that salvation is not restricted by ethnicity, geography, or background.

I believe that "not for ours only but for the sins of the world" simply means not for Israel only but for the nations as well. (Of those who come to believe in Him out of both Israel and the world/nations.....it is only a remnant out of both who will be saved.)

Just want to mention also that I noticed the English word "world" in the new testament can mean either "kosmos" or "aion" in the Greek....kosmos is referring to the material world (either the earth or it's people and systems), and aion means an age. It's like "hell" in the bible can be either hades or gehenna and they aren't the same thing either. Unless the translators had some reason for translating those things as they did. (If we could see a more precise rendering of both it might help some things be more clear.)

 

[MatthewG]

I believe that "not for ours only but for the sins of the world" simply means not for Israel only but for the nations as well. (Of those who come to believe in Him out of both Israel and the world/nations.....it is only a remnant out of both who will be saved.)

Just want to mention also that I noticed the English word "world" in the new testament can mean either "kosmos" or "aion" in the Greek....kosmos is referring to the material world (either the earth or it's people and systems), and aion means an age. It's like "hell" in the bible can be either hades or gehenna and they aren't the same thing either. Unless the translators had some reason for translating those things as they did. (If we could see a more precise rendering of both it might help some things be more clear.)

Hello Lizbeth,

I just want to reassure you that I do not believe you are stupid or anything like that. My mother has a bad habit of thinking that people think she is stupid and Idk why, she did that the other day with me before we had are argument, cause she said "Why do gotta treat me like I am stupid." I was actually trying to see if i could help in some way but she took it in another way.

I want you to know that that okay. I do not believe you are stupid, or beneath me. I love you just as you are though I don't know you personally and I hope you can take something away from this.

 

[Lizbeth]

There’s several ways to see it though. I remember when a guy use to come by and drop in to post on the board a couple of years ago. He would come rolling in, pick a fight telling everyone how slack and pathetic they are and then when others responded by getting offended… he would cry he was being “persecuted for Christ”.

if I take into account where Paul was speaking with the Corinthians who called him and those with Paul reprobates…as those who fail. Paul suffers their high mindedness…as a soldier of Christ endures hard (hearts) ground. because let’s be honest …they thought they were the ones Christ speaks in and not Paul and those with Paul. Paul suffers the humiliation for their sakes, that they should be made perfect and complete. Paul’s willing to be seen as reprobate(
2 Corinthians 6:7-13 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, [8] By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; [9] As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; [10] As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things. [11] O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged. [12] Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels. [13] Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.

… Paul basically saying when they see they(whom Christ speaks in) are not as those who fail…then your eyes will be open and you will see we are not reprobate.

We reduce suffering for His name sake unto something to explain when bad stuff happens. First, what is His name sake? I remember hearing that as a tyrant “honor My name” “Give Me My Namesake!” Isn’t it those people that Jesus Christ apprehended…that are His Name sake? For this cause that we may lay hold of that which we were laid hold of by Christ.

I’ve heard atheist say God is evil because He promises to give people as a possession to others. To apprehend. To posses. To inherit. To increase. To enter into…there is so much there. It isn’t about some mystical hope of glory of a crown to set at His feet. Paul spoke plainly “YOU are our crown of Glory.” If we miss its people as the objective …instead saying we suffer for what purpose? It always is for others to be made right and perfect and complete.

Oh I see, yes! Suffering for the right reasons....and specifically as a sacrificial lamb so to speak, for the sake of others....like Jesus on the cross.....numbered with the transgressors even though innocent. Amen. (and I think a wonderful topic to look into sometime.) Yes suffering for doing wrong doesn't count. And you're pointing out that suffering chastisements for our own sakes isn't what that verse is talking about specifically either....?....I agree, thank you. :)

Suffering for what cause? Just because God loves to see us suffer?

Yes, for what cause....good question. There are three kinds of suffering I think.....one is to suffer for doing wrong.....another is to suffer for the sake of others, which includes persecution.....and the third is to suffer chastisements, trials and tribs for our own sakes so that we might partake of God's holiness. So that verse about filling up what is behind of the suffering of Christ is specifically speaking of suffering for the sake of others. Really appreciate you clarifying that sister.

 

[Muna]

Paul says also, "For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory"

And here he says,

2 Cr 4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

2 Cr 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

Peter says,

1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

1 Peter 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

And back to Paul

1 Col 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church

Peter likewise speaks of these same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world

James 5:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Similarly Peter says

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Peter 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

Phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Phil 1:30 Having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear to be in me.

Perfcted through sufferings

1 Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

And not posted is 1Cr 2:3-7

 

[Lizbeth]

Hello Lizbeth,

I just want to reassure you that I do not believe you are stupid or anything like that. My mother has a bad habit of thinking that people think she is stupid and Idk why, she did that the other day with me before we had are argument, cause she said "Why do gotta treat me like I am stupid." I was actually trying to see if i could help in some way but she took it in another way.

I want you to know that that okay. I do not believe you are stupid, or beneath me. I love you just as you are though I don't know you personally and I hope you can take something away from this.

No I'm not taking you amiss that way at all, but thank you for seeking to clarify. I know most people have their sensitivities and often there are reasons for them. The truth is I really have been and am quite stupid in some ways, lol. And now my brain is aging sooner than I thought it would, so I'm guessing that will show at times. Have trouble keeping up with threads these days and there are some posts I have trouble deciphering, and it's sometimes hard to nail down and express what I want to express. Oh well, plodding on with God's help. Bless you.

 

[marks]

Paul says also, "For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory"

And here he says,

2 Cr 4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

2 Cr 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

Peter says,

1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

1 Peter 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

And back to Paul

1 Col 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church

Peter likewise speaks of these same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world

James 5:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Similarly Peter says

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Peter 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

Phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Phil 1:30 Having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear to be in me.

Perfcted through sufferings

1 Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

And not posted is 1Cr 2:3-7

Great post! One more . . .

Acts 14:21-22 KJV
21) And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,
22) Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Much love!

 

[Muna]

Great post! One more . . .

Acts 14:21-22 KJV
21) And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,
22) Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Much love!

Amen! I love that it says, "Confirming the souls of the disciples" in that too.

 

[marks]

My mother has a bad habit of thinking that people think she is stupid and Idk why, she did that the other day with me before we had are argument, cause she said "Why do gotta treat me like I am stupid." I was actually trying to see if i could help in some way but she took it in another way.

I know someone who is like that. She got that message a lot from her parents, that she was stupid, and she's not. But now she's sensitive to that.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

No I'm not taking you amiss that way at all, but thank you for seeking to clarify. I know most people have their sensitivities and often there are reasons for them. The truth is I really have been and am quite stupid in some ways, lol. And now my brain is aging sooner than I thought it would, so I'm guessing that will show at times. Have trouble keeping up with threads these days and there are some posts I have trouble deciphering, and it's sometimes hard to nail down and express what I want to express. Oh well, plodding on with God's help. Bless you.

I don't look as though you are. Appreciate you kind words. May you continue guided in Spirit and truth, worshiping the Father for that is what he seeks for individuals to do.

This is something I will always remember what Yeshua has stated:

John 4:21 Jesus replied, “Believe me, dear woman, the time is coming when it will no longer matter whether you worship the Father on this mountain or in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans know very little about the one you worship, while we Jews know all about him, for salvation comes through the Jews. 23 But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way. 24 For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.”

 

[Lizbeth]

We can get deep into trouble if we don't see God as meaning what He says. Look at the context. Look at the content.

Colossians 1:24-25 KJV
24) Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
25) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

The afflictions of Christ in my flesh . . . Paul's fleshly suffering is considered as though Jesus is suffering.

Saul! Saul! Why are you persecuting Me??

Paul rejoices in his sufferings for these believers, and continues to suffer "the afflictions of Christ" in my flesh. Because it's not meaningless suffering, he knows it will bring salvation and growth to Jesus' body, the Christians.

This verse isn't saying that there is anything lacking in Jesus' suffering to save us. This verse tells us that Christ suffers when we suffer. We are in communion with Him. Why are you persecuting Me? This verse is telling us what we already knew, what God showed Paul in his vision while he was blind, that Paul knows his suffering isn't over, but he's happy to complete it knowing the joyous work being accomplished though it.

We can't just rush past verses that don't seem to make a full and complete sense, taking away an impression of what is written, as if that's all it means, without being able to account for every word.

If your complaint is that I take this passage too literally, complain away, I'll take it as a badge of honor. This is not yanked from context. It fits just fine, and also fits fine with the other passages which speak the same thing. And what I'm saying is exactly what this passage is saying.

Much love!

Yes, it agrees and harmonizes with other scriptures. But I believe some of those are in a manner of speaking as well (or perhaps we could say hyperbole).....I don;t take "Saul Saul why do you persecute me? " as being literal either...but that it is in a spiritual sense of Christ identifying with His body.

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, it agrees and harmonizes with other scriptures. But I believe some of those are in a manner of speaking as well (or perhaps we could say hyperbole).....I don;t take "Saul Saul why do you persecute me? " as being literal either...but that it is in a spiritual sense of Christ identifying with His body.

Lizbeth,

Kind of like an underlying subconscious speaking to Saul?

That’s an interesting way to see it.

My brother told me yesterday that he believes there is a part of God in everyone and I think you and him might have a point. I agree with him on that notion too though cause all of us have a God-given soul.

 

[Lizbeth]

I don't care. It's not for me to judge them. All people are going to die one day and have their judgement before God.

Do you like to judge people and correct them? Are you a religious zealot or a person whom just desire to live in faith and love by the spirit?


You don't have to answer, I don't care what you answer is.

Different parts of the body have different graces/gifts and roles. But I think we all should care about and for one another, as well as contend for the faith according to what grace we have.

 

[pandaflower]

GEHENNA - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Complete contents the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia.

www.jewishencyclopedia.com

Early Christian History / The Theology of Hell

Overview of Hell in early Christian theology. Discusses its origins in Jewish thought; its mention in canonical and non-canonical Christian writings; and how it developed, into the early Middle Ages.

earlychristianhistory.net