the beast with seven heads and ten horns - the Roman Empire

[Douggg]

I don't think so. You provided one verse that you grossly misinterpreted and misunderstand... I don't see any other verses that provide any of the comments you made - not one. But that is okay....

"grossly misinterpreted" ? no.

Heading "south" and "east" toward the pleasant land gives a straight forward specific direction that the little horn will approach Israel from.

Daniel 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

I think we will soon see the emergence of the little horn person as the leader of a panel of ten EU leaders.

 

[Jay Ross]

In around 20 years the Little Horn, the four beasts and Satan will be judged in heaven and imprisoned in a pit to await the time of their punishment.

The Little Horn, the four beasts and Satan are wicked fallen heavenly hosts who are all able to influence people, people groups, kingdoms and empires to do the fallen angels' bidding.

The anti-christ will be one of these fallen angels. Not a human being as many want to suggest.

We all need to learn the truth that is hidden in the scripture and not pass our opinions as if we know the answers to the questions that people may ask.

Shalom

 

[CTK]

The papacy/pope as being the little horn is not possible because to become the Antichrist, the person must be Jew, not a Christian, in order to be anointed the king of Israel thought-to-be messiah.

The concept of "Christ" is found in Mark 15:32. Although Jesus was being mocked by the chief priests and scribes, the concept of "Christ" is found that verse.

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

Becoming the Antichrist is Stage 3 of the little horn's five stages he will go through.


View attachment 66815

This will probably be the last response I will make to your posts.... I asked you to support your contention of a literal antichrist figure, the other day I asked you to support your 5 heads of Revelation... soory Dougg...

 

[covenantee]

1st and 2nd Peter

1st and 2nd John.

 

[covenantee]

The papacy/pope as being the little horn is not possible because to become the Antichrist, the person must be Jew, not a Christian, in order to be anointed the king of Israel thought-to-be messiah.

The concept of "Christ" is found in Mark 15:32. Although Jesus was being mocked by the chief priests and scribes, the concept of "Christ" is found that verse.

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

Becoming the Antichrist is Stage 3 of the little horn's five stages he will go through.


View attachment 66815

Ten historical Roman horns (kingdoms) which arose out of the fourth beast/kingdom of the Roman empire, and their first or early kings:

Heruli - Anthyrius I
Suevi - Hermeric
Burgundians - Gjúki
Huns - Attila
Ostrogoths - Theodoric
Visigoths - Alaric I
Vandals - Genseric
Lombards - Lethuc
Franks - Ascaric
Anglo-Saxons - Alfred the Great

Roman (not Jewish) little horn (kingdom) and king: The Roman papacy, governed by pope Gelasius I when the first of the three kings in Daniel 7:8,20,24, Odoacer of the Heruli, was overthrown in 493 AD.

The three kings overthrown ("subdued"): Odoacer of the Heruli in 493 AD, Gelimer of the Vandals in 534 AD, Teia of the Ostrogoths in 553 AD.

 

[covenantee]

Following the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 39, the little horn person becomes the "prince that shall come" of Daniel 9:26. Who then becomes the Antichrist.

In Scripture, history, and grammar, the prince that shall come of Daniel 9:26 is Messiah the Prince of Daniel 9:25, i.e. Christ.

Christ becomes antichrist only blasphemously.

 

[Douggg]

In around 20 years the Little Horn, the four beasts and Satan will be judged in heaven and imprisoned in a pit to await the time of their punishment.

Jay, what is the end year of the Matthew 24:32-24 parable of the fig tree generation ?

It is 2037. Jesus will return before the end of 2037.

 

[Douggg]

This will probably be the last response I will make to your posts.... I asked you to support your contention of a literal antichrist figure, the other day I asked you to support your 5 heads of Revelation... soory Dougg...

The SDA view that the papacy/popes is the little horn/Antichrist/beast-king does not fit the identification of the person according to scripture.

In Daniel 11:36 is the beast-king. In Daniel 11:37 , that the beast-king will have no regard for the God of his forefathers is an indication that he is Jew.

 

[CTK]

1st and 2nd John.

Thank you!

 

[CTK]

The SDA view that the papacy/popes is the little horn/Antichrist/beast-king does not fit the identification of the person according to scripture.

In Daniel 11:36 is the beast-king. In Daniel 11:37 , that the beast-king will have no regard for the God of his forefathers is an indication that he is Jew.

Doug, you are notorious for making these grand claims but you never have any support or rational to back it up... Look at this comment of yours - does not fit the identification.... what does anyone do with that? Is that how you would answer a question in school? Is the little horn the papacy? And you respond, no it doesn't fit the identification according to scripture -"F" And another thing, do you think by mentioning the SDA holds this view that it might enhance your response? That comment doesn't tell anyone anything-- now, if you were to tell me why they feel that way and why you disagree that would get us closer to a discussion - but I don't believe that is ever going to happen here Doug. I am sorry, but we must move on....

 

[CTK]

1st and 2nd John.

I think I got this from one of Doug's charts... I must have been holding it upside down - I couldn't tell though...(just kidding Doug).

 

[Douggg]

Doug, you are notorious for making these grand claims but you never have any support or rational to back it up...

Daniel 11:37 is support that the little horn person/Antichrist/beast-king will be a Jew.

Daniel 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, what is the end year of the Matthew 24:32-24 parable of the fig tree generation ?

It is 2037. Jesus will return before the end of 2037.

Dougggg the Fig Tree parable is completely contained within the verse Matt 24:32 and as such all of the timeframe between when the Fig Tree begins to bud and when the Summer Season of the seventh Age begins, is provided within this one verse. The reference to a "Generation" in verse 34 is referencing an age which is the combination of the Summer Season of the Harvest of Souls and the Little While period of when the Little Horn/False Prophet, the best and Satan are released to do their own thing in trying to overthrow God's Everlasting Kingdom before they are all captured and dispatched into the Lake of Fire.

So, the time points for when the Summer Season begins which also coincides with the beginning of the seventh age is around 20 years from now. The end of the Generation/Seventh Age will occur around 1,000 + years later when the GWTR Judgement will take place.

The Generation mentioned in verse 34 is not a descendant generation time period as you are claiming. The embedded time period in verse 32 is around 96 years from when the Fig Tree started to bdg new leaves. The time period of the Generation mentioned in verse 34 is around 1,024 years in duration.

I may still be alive in 2037 AD, but I am not, IMHO, expecting Christ to return before the end of 2037 AD. It is my view that Christ return to Judge the peoples of the earth will not occur until possibly around the year 3,068 AD but I suspect that there will be little evidence at that time that I even existed.

Shalom

 

[Douggg]

The reference to a "Generation" in verse 34 is referencing an age

No, a generation of people, their life expectancy. From Psalms 90:10, 70 years.

1967 (Jerusalem the fig tree back in the hands of the Jews) + 70 years (length of a generation) = 2037

I may still be alive in 2037 AD, but I am not, IMHO, expecting Christ to return before the end of 2037 AD. It is my view that Christ return to Judge the peoples of the earth will not occur until possibly around the year 3,068 AD but I suspect that there will be little evidence at that time that I even existed.

3068 ? Can't you see that the Israel vs Iran war is leading to the Gog/Magog event, right now ? Jesus returns 7 years right after the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 39.

 

[Jay Ross]

Making one wrong assumption only leads one further away from the truth.

Goodbye

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

At least you can admit you don’t know.

But I am still baffled that people 2000 years later are still predicting these things, when the letter itself was addressed to 7 churches pressing on them of a time when Jesus was coming quickly.

That just baffles me, I don’t know everything about revelation but those key points are what drives me into faith of them happening within that time up to the destruction of 70 ad.

The book of Revelation was likely not written before 70 AD which your view requires. To have a position that depends so strongly on when the book was written is a weakness in your position. Also, Jesus coming quickly has nothing to do with Him coming quickly after the book was written. The Greek word translated as "quickly" in verses like Revelation 22 verses 7, 12 and 20 is "tachy" and it means immediately or very swiftly. Surely, Jesus was not saying that He was coming immediately at the time the book was written. When He said He is coming quickly He was saying that once He does come He will come immediately and not delay. He will bring "sudden destruction" once He does come (1 Thessalonians 5:2-3). His coming will be like when lightning flashes from the east to the west (Matthew 24:27). Once it's time for Him to come in the future, He will come quickly and our bodies will be changed in a moment (1 Cor 15:51-52) and He will take vengeance on all unbelievers (2 Thess 1:7-10).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, a generation of people, their life expectancy. From Psalms 90:10, 70 years.

A generation is never defined as life expectancy. You are making up your own definition for a word just to support your doctrine, which is unacceptable. There is no mention of a generation in Psalm 90:10. A generation is considered to last for a period of 30 to 40 years because it represents the average time period that a person lives before having their own children.

 

[WitnessX]

Dougggg the Fig Tree parable is completely contained within the verse Matt 24:32 and as such all of the timeframe between when the Fig Tree begins to bud and when the Summer Season of the seventh Age begins, is provided within this one verse. The reference to a "Generation" in verse 34 is referencing an age which is the combination of the Summer Season of the Harvest of Souls and the Little While period of when the Little Horn/False Prophet, the best and Satan are released to do their own thing in trying to overthrow God's Everlasting Kingdom before they are all captured and dispatched into the Lake of Fire.

So, the time points for when the Summer Season begins which also coincides with the beginning of the seventh age is around 20 years from now. The end of the Generation/Seventh Age will occur around 1,000 + years later when the GWTR Judgement will take place.

The Generation mentioned in verse 34 is not a descendant generation time period as you are claiming. The embedded time period in verse 32 is around 96 years from when the Fig Tree started to bdg new leaves. The time period of the Generation mentioned in verse 34 is around 1,024 years in duration.

I may still be alive in 2037 AD, but I am not, IMHO, expecting Christ to return before the end of 2037 AD. It is my view that Christ return to Judge the peoples of the earth will not occur until possibly around the year 3,068 AD but I suspect that there will be little evidence at that time that I even existed.

Shalom

Genesis 15 is the clearest example of a generations length Being 100 years.

Genesis 15:13-16 (AMP) 13 God said to Abram, “Know for sure that your descendants will be strangers [living temporarily] in a land (Egypt) that is not theirs, where they will be enslaved and oppressed for four hundred years. 14 “But on that nation whom your descendants will serve I will bring judgment, and afterward they will come out [of that land] with great possessions. 15 “As for you, you shall [die and] go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried at a good old age. 16 “Then in the fourth generation your descendants shall return here [to Canaan, the land of promise], for the wickedness and guilt of the Amorites is not yet complete (finished).”

a generation = 100 years, and dougggs using psalm 90‘s 70 isnt far off when using 1967 recapture of the Temple Mount as the baseline Instead of 1948 and Israel’s return as a nation. Either would work in this case as a general timetable for His second coming.

Gods calendar works using Ages, of which there are 3.5 ( no coincidences). Three of two thousand and one of one thousand, totaling seven Millenniums, a typology of seven days as in Genesis, Peter, Psalms and others. Seven thousand years.

An Onah is 500 years. A Jubilee is 50 years. (Hence why there is a last popes prophecy of the current pope being the last one before Jesus Christ returns.)

Age of Creation
The first four Onahs make up the first 2000-year Age, 1-2000 AM or 3925-1925 BC.

Age of Torah
Onahs five through eight make up the second 2000-year Age, 2001-4000 AM or 1926 BC - AD 75.

Age of Grace
Onahs nine through twelve make up the third 2000-year Age, 4001-6000 AM or AD 75-2075.

Age of the Kingdom
Onahs thirteen and fourteen make up this fourth Age which only lasts 1000 years. It is commonly called the Millennium, 6001-7000 AM or AD 2076-3075.

there are plenty of prophetical reasons why this is accurate And factual Truth. That being said do your own research and take it to the Lord.

His return is very much not 1000 years away.

Jesus Christs first advent was in the last Jubilee, 50 year period, of the Age of Torah. He was crucified April 6, 32 AD. if His ministry was 3.5 years that means He crossed the Jordan and was baptized by John in Elul/Tishrei 28AD. By the end of that jubilee (25 AD -75 AD), the temple was destroyed (70AD), and others things completed so that by 75 AD the age of Grace was in full swing and the closing of the age of Torah was complete.

Given the fact that His first advent was early in the final jubilee of the age of Torah (25-75 AD) I believe it’s safe to assume His second advent will be sooner in the final Jubilee (2025-2075 AD) of the Age of Grace as well. 2032 AD would be exactly 2000 years since His being cut off. Given the state of the world and prophecy taking place right now His is return very soon, not another 1000 years away which is completely wrong and wildly inaccurate.

we are absolutely pre-kingdom, there will be a physical return and physical reign of 1,000 years, as stated in the Bible in many places. Anyone teaching little season, symbolic fulfillment of prophecy, or there is no physical return with Jesus Christ ruling over earth in New Jerusalem is quite plainly wrong, easily disproved ( wether they argue or not) and is teaching a false doctrine. Do not be led astray.

time Is short, seek refuge in Jesus Christ if you haven’t already. Amen.

 

[Douggg]

A generation is never defined as life expectancy. You are making up your own definition for a word just to support your doctrine, which is unacceptable. There is no mention of a generation in Psalm 90:10. A generation is considered to last for a period of 30 to 40 years because it represents the average time period that a person lives before having their own children.

So to you a generation passes, dies off, at the time they have children? No, that is not what a generation means. A generation passes when most of the persons of that generation die. Look at verse 34.

Matthew 24:
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

 

[ewq1938]

The beast with seven heads and ten horns in Revelation 17, 12, 13 is the Roman Empire.

Christ destroys the ten horned beast at the second coming but the Roman Empire fell centuries ago so it cannot be the Roman Empire.

The ten horned beast is something that arises in the end times and is fully global which Rome wanted but never achieved, and is likely related to a past kingdom/s but the endtimes version is something new that has only 42 months to be in power.