The mysteries in the Gospels “Who Do You Believe? The Witnessed Words of Jesus or Paul’s Private Vision?”

[David in NJ]

@LoveYeshua - where did you go?

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Precious friends In The Grace Of Christ, are you still bewildered by all the mysterious Confusion of:

One Gospel or more?
One Baptism or more?
One Mystery or many mysteries for today?

One Law (of Love) or 10 or 613 laws?
Jesus' [ red-letter ] True Words only? vs non-Jesus Word's of Paul { not Wholesome Words }, Rightly Divided?
Yes/no? = of God's Great GRACE Departure The Body Of Christ to Heaven for The Bema Judgment Seat?

God's Simple:

Bible Answer To Confused church Bewilderment!

Amen.

 

[David in NJ]

Precious friends In The Grace Of Christ, are you still bewildered by all the mysterious Confusion of:

One Gospel or more?
One Baptism or more?
One Mystery or many mysteries for today?

One Law (of Love) or 10 or 613 laws?
Jesus' [ red-letter ] True Words only? vs non-Jesus Word's of Paul { not Wholesome Words }, Rightly Divided?
Yes/no? = of God's Great GRACE Departure The Body Of Christ to Heaven for The Bema Judgment Seat?

God's Simple:

Bible Answer To Confused church Bewilderment!

Amen.

TRUTH = One, Two, THREE

One Gospel
One Baptism of water
One Baptism of Spirit
One Body of Christ
One God and Father
One LORD Jesus Christ
One Holy Spirit
Many mysteries contained in the Godhead and the Holy Scriptures
Two Jerusalems
Two kingdoms

Two people of God
a.) of the flesh = Israel beneath
b.) of the Spirit = Israel Above

ELOHIM is THREE

Question: When does Two make One?

 

[marks]

Not getting the tinker toys analogy at all marks. Or the thinking that someone is returning to the righteousness of the Mosiac law. How does the righteousness of God which is by the faith of Christ which works by love (and is fulfilled in us) make void the keeping of commandments of God included in the New testament?

I have no complaint against anyone keeping the commandments. My hope is that they realize that they cannot actually keep the Mosaic Law period. And I hope that they realize a lot of Jesus' teaching was specifically towards keeping the commandments, as this was the time He was in. Until the cross, Israel was under the Mosaic Covenant, which is the entirety of the Law and the Prophets.

All that you say we will do, this was the people's reply to God at Mt Horeb.

Tinker Toys - a sort of building blocks for small children, is like the Law, even "NT Law", in that you can only build within the confines of those basic building pieces. Living the Law of Love, or Law of Christ, isn't conforming as best we are able, and as best we understand, to a list of rules.

It's becoming like the person Whose heart is behind those rules. There is much more we are required to do because we love others (real true love - not everyone does) than what the Law/"NT Law" can begin to describe.

I'm not trying to tick the boxes on commandments kept. The Pharisees did that. They ticked the boxes, but they missed the heart of it.

Now that we have Jesus living in us, now that His Spirit informs everything we think, feel, and do, shall return to ticking the boxes?

James taught the Law is a single thing, break one, you've broken all, being a lawbreaker. The commandments are useful as we can compare ourselves, but that only works to a point.

Jesus taught in the Sermon on the Mount that we must forgive others or God will not forgive us. Paul wrote that we are to forgive others because God has forgiven us. The difference here is Jesus was teaching the Law - salvation in return for performance - while Paul taught after the cross, and we are saved by faith in Christ. Of course part of the performance of the Law, such as the sacrifice, was solely faith based, that God would accept the offering.

The Law says, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against they neighbor." Don't lie about your neighbor to get him into trouble.

But Love says, "speak truth to each other, because we are members of one another".

The Law says, "don't do this certain kind of lying". Love says, be truthful about everything, actually caring for each other.

So I liken the commandment to not lie about your neighbor to the children's toys, even as Paul wrote, the Law was the pedagogue until faith came, while speaking truth being members together is like building sky scrapers.

I hope that helps explaining what I mean.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

I have no complaint against anyone keeping the commandments. My hope is that they realize that they cannot actually keep the Mosaic Law period. And I hope that the realize a lot of Jesus' teaching was specifically towards keeping the commandments, as this was the time He was in. Until the cross, Israel was under the Mosaic Covenant, which is the entirety of the Law and the Prophets.

All that you say we will do, this was the people's reply to God at Mt Horeb.

Tinker Toys - a sort of building blocks for small children, is like the Law, even "NT Law", in that you can only build within the confines of those basic building pieces. Living the Law of Love, or Law of Christ, isn't conforming as best we are able as as best we understand to a list of rules.

It's becoming like the person Whose heart is behind those rules. There is much more we are required to do because we love others (real true love - not everyone does) than what the Law/"NT Law" can begin to describe.

I'm not trying to tick the boxes on commandments kept. The Pharisees did that. The ticked the boxes, but they missed the heart of it.

Now that we have Jesus living in us, now that His Spirit informs everything we think, feel, and do, shall return to ticking the boxes?

James taught the Law is a single thing, break one, you've broken all, being a lawbreaker. The commandments are great as we can compare ourselves, but that only works to a point.

The Law says, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against they neighbor." Don't lie about your neighbor to get him into trouble.

But Love says, "speak truth to each other, because we are members of one another".

The Law says, "don't do this certain kind of lying". Love says, be truthful about everything, actually caring for each other.

So I liken the commandment to not lie about your neighbor to the children's toys, even as Paul wrote, the Law was the pedagogue until faith came, while speaking truth being members together is like building sky scrapers.

I hope that helps explaining what I mean.

Much love!

But Love says, "speak truth to each other, because we are members of one another".

And this is the LOVE of Christ to which i have been communicating to you marks but you reject His Love when you reject His words.

 

[Muna]

I have no complaint against anyone keeping the commandments. My hope is that they realize that they cannot actually keep the Mosaic Law period. And I hope that the realize a lot of Jesus' teaching was specifically towards keeping the commandments, as this was the time He was in. Until the cross, Israel was under the Mosaic Covenant, which is the entirety of the Law and the Prophets.

All that you say we will do, this was the people's reply to God at Mt Horeb.

Tinker Toys - a sort of building blocks for small children, is like the Law, even "NT Law", in that you can only build within the confines of those basic building pieces. Living the Law of Love, or Law of Christ, isn't conforming as best we are able as as best we understand to a list of rules.

It's becoming like the person Whose heart is behind those rules. There is much more we are required to do because we love others (real true love - not everyone does) than what the Law/"NT Law" can begin to describe.

I'm not trying to tick the boxes on commandments kept. The Pharisees did that. The ticked the boxes, but they missed the heart of it.

Now that we have Jesus living in us, now that His Spirit informs everything we think, feel, and do, shall return to ticking the boxes?

James taught the Law is a single thing, break one, you've broken all, being a lawbreaker. The commandments are great as we can compare ourselves, but that only works to a point.

The Law says, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against they neighbor." Don't lie about your neighbor to get him into trouble.

But Love says, "speak truth to each other, because we are members of one another".

The Law says, "don't do this certain kind of lying". Love says, be truthful about everything, actually caring for each other.

So I liken the commandment to not lie about your neighbor to the children's toys, even as Paul wrote, the Law was the pedagogue until faith came, while speaking truth being members together is like building sky scrapers.

I hope that helps explaining what I mean.

Much love!

marx do you have an issue with any of these verses here?

1 Cr 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God,
and keep his commandments.

1John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Again this way (See above 1Cr 7:19)

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

And both of those verses ( 1Cr 7:19 & Gal 5:6) combined this way,

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

And I bring this up again because I am always trying to figure out what makes someone reply to a specific post (laden with scriptures on the topic) in the way they do. And by that I mean, without ever pointing out exactly what was posted that might inspired a reply in a questionable or negative sense. I often ask this of others because I am curous. You might have read a few back and forths when I did, I don't typically answer the question but search for where the question is coming from within the post (my own, for example).

 

[Behold]

b.) God who is Heaven and is the Final Authority of where a person spends eternity.

You originally stated that its the Devil who has the power to Destroy souls .

He doesn't.
He can lead you to Hell, by keeping you from Trusting in Christ.....but only God can "destroy a soul".....ect.

The Devil has no power of creation, or Power to destroy souls...

 

[marks]

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God,
and keep his commandments.

Here's what John had written a earlier in his letter.

1 John 3:21-24 KJV
21) Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23) And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24) And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

These are His commandments, affirmed in this place,

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

in this place,

John 13:34-35 KJV
34) A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35) By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Wonderfully so in this place . . . faith that works by love . . .

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

The Law said, you shall not murder others. Love says, give yourself for their wellbeing. That fulfills the Law, and so very much more.

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus taught, but I say, when you look at a woman to lust you've committed adultery in your heart. Love says, she is my sister, she is my mother, love them with a pure love, not robbing their beauty for my gratification, but giving myself for their wellbeing. And love fulfills the Law, but with so much more.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

Even now you continue to post like this. I don't believe you understand the love of Christ. You've very consistently shown otherwise. Again I say, you needn't post to me. I'm not interested.

Learn to love others, to actually love them, not just to speak love out of one side of your mouth while trashing others from the other side. Can't you see this??

Much love!

I don't believe you understand the love of Christ. You've very consistently shown otherwise.

Exposing falsehood and lies is the work of the Holy Spirit and of Love

Again I say, you needn't post to me. I'm not interested.

You reject this Work of God = as evidenced in your own words

Learn to love others, to actually love them,

AGREE = same for you

not just to speak love out of one side of your mouth while trashing others from the other side.

AGREE
But you cannot you see this!!!

Much MORE Love!!!

 

[David in NJ]

You originally stated that its the Devil who has the power to Destroy souls .

He doesn't.
He can lead you to Hell, by keeping you from Trusting in Christ.....but only God can "destroy a soul".....ect.

The Devil has no power of creation, or Power to destroy souls...

You originally stated that its the Devil who has the power to Destroy souls .

Nope = NEVER said any such thing

Below is my original post to you:

We are not appointed to God's Wrath = 1 Thessalonians 1:10 and 5:9
We are not exempt from Satan's wrath = Gospel = Matthew 10:28

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul;
but rather be afraid of Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Satan's wrath is:
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul;"

God's wrath is:
"but rather be afraid of Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

 

[pandaflower]

Jesus often spoke about the mysteries of the kingdom of God. When the disciples asked why He spoke in parables, He answered, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given” (Matthew 13:11; Mark 4:11; Luke 8:10). These mysteries were not locked away for a few; Jesus used parables to reveal truth to those willing to listen and then explained each one clearly to His disciples in private so that they would understand fully (Mark 4:34). Among these mysteries was the nature of God’s kingdom: it would begin small like a mustard seed yet grow to shelter many (Matthew 13:31–32); it was of such surpassing value that those who truly understood would give up everything to gain it, like finding hidden treasure or a pearl of great price (Matthew 13:44–46); and at the end of the age, there would be a separation between the righteous and the wicked, like a net gathering fish of every kind, keeping the good and casting away the bad (Matthew 13:47–50). He warned that not all who called Him Lord would enter, but only those who do the will of the Father (Matthew 7:21–23).

Jesus emphasized that His teachings were not secret or hidden: “I spoke openly to the world. I always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where the Jews always meet; and in secret I have said nothing” (John 18:20). Everything He taught was confirmed by many witnesses—His twelve disciples who were with Him day and night and the crowds who heard His words and saw His works. Another mystery He revealed was that the kingdom would not come with signs that people could point to, for “the kingdom of God is within you” (Luke 17:20–21). He said this because many expected an earthly kingdom with visible power, but God’s rule begins inside the hearts of those who believe, repent, and submit to Him. While He was not directly speaking of the Holy Spirit, He later promised that the Spirit of truth would live in His followers, guiding them into all truth and making the reign of God a reality within them (John 14:16–17; John 16:13–15). He also revealed the mystery of His mission as the promised Messiah, the Lamb of God who would lay down His life for the forgiveness of sins (John 1:29; Matthew 26:28), fulfilling what had been written by the prophets. These mysteries were not meant to remain hidden, for He blessed His disciples, saying, “Blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear” (Matthew 13:16–17).

Paul, many years later, also spoke of a “mystery” but in very different terms. He said that his gospel did not come from any man nor was it taught to him, but that it came through a direct revelation of Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:12). Unlike Jesus, who taught publicly and with many witnesses, Paul’s claimed revelation had no witnesses and was not confirmed by the apostles who had walked with Jesus or anyone else. Paul described his mystery as “that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel” (Ephesians 3:6; Colossians 1:26–27), that salvation was now offered apart from the works of the law to both Jews and Gentiles. He also called the resurrection of the dead and the transformation of believers “a mystery” (1 Corinthians 15:51–52).

Yet Jesus had already revealed that many from the east and west would sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 8:11; Luke 13:29) and had commanded that the gospel of the kingdom be preached to all nations (Matthew 24:14). He had already shown that true faith was proven by obedience to God’s commandments and by bearing fruit. The mysteries Jesus revealed were witnessed by His disciples, fulfilled by His works, and aligned with the Law and the Prophets. Paul’s mysteries rest solely on his own testimony, with no witnesses to confirm his claims. Because of this, one must be careful and always weigh Paul’s words against the words of Jesus, for Jesus alone declared, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away” (Matthew 24:35). His mysteries are the sure foundation, openly given and confirmed by those who walked with Him.

I believe Jesus.
Jesus warned us about others who would come in his name.

Revelation 2:2
Romans 7


Acts 1:21 So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection.” 23 And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also called Justus, and Matthias. 24 And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen 25 to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” 26 And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

 

[LoveYeshua]

You are saying Paul's doctrine is not confirmed while Jesus' doctrine is.

You aren't being straight with me.

Much love!

if the doctrine of paul differs fro what christ was sayinf then it is different

Where your confusion comes in, is that you are not a genuine student of Paul's Epistles.
This is obvious.
And the reason that anyone can become "confused" by Paul's Epistles, (Doctrine) is when they only know of Jesus's teaching that He gave to the JEWS.
This is why Peter was confused, by Paul's Theology, for a while.

So, when you are a person who does not understand that The Cross begain a New Covenant, and this means that all verses in the NT that came before Jesus was Crucified, have to be now understood, or filted through... The Cross of Christ,. And this is because the New Covenant, which is The Cross of Christ that is the Blood Atonement.. = changed everything, because its designed for "the time of the Gentiles'.......not for the Jews.....specifically.

Paul teaches the Christian to "rightly divide" the word of God, because now that The Cross has changed everything.......you have to find out HOW,.. where, and why, and for how long.
And that is why Jesus gave us PAUL.....as He is our teacher......who explains all these CHANGES to us.

I understand the Cross and new covenant More than you know, but you Paulinists focus ONLY on The cross. Christ said much More and did so much more but you focus only the cross, well that is the teachings of Paul that you follow, for myself I follow only One voice, Christ', he said it all and did it all. I did not learn nothing from Paul because Christ had said it all before through his disciples before Paul.

if you removed the synoptic gospels from the bible, You would know only the cross about Jesus and not much else and that is the truth right there that you cannot contradict.

 

[WitnessX]

So you’re saying Paul is teaching a different Gospel? Yes or no?

it’s not my perception, it’s easily backed up with scripture that Paul frequently met up with other apostles and worked out issues, there are examples of this in the Book of Acts. So no, it not my perception it’s a fact. Peter himself eludes to it in his own epistle.

I’ll go ahead and clear the air now, as I believe you have a misunderstanding that Paul somehow doesn’t give credence or teach that it is important to keep the commandments.

1 Corinthians 7:19 (AMP)
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is keeping the commandments of God.

 

[marks]

if the doctrine of paul differs fro what christ was sayinf then it is different

No, I’m not saying Paul’s writings are false or not from God.

You still are not being straight with me.

Which is it? Do you believe Paul's writings or not? You say, If it differs . . . then does it? Be clear and precises, if you wouldn't mind. Succinct.

Much love!

 

[WitnessX]

if the doctrine of paul differs fro what christ was sayinf then it is different

I understand the Cross and new covenant More than you know, but you Paulinists focus ONLY on The cross. Christ said much More and did so much more but you focus only the cross, well that is the teachings of Paul that you follow, for myself I follow only One voice, Christ', he said it all and did it all. I did not learn nothing from Paul because Christ had said it all before through his disciples before Paul.

if you removed the synoptic gospels from the bible, You would know only the cross about Jesus and not much else and that is the truth right there that you cannot contradict.

Paul, and the inclusion of his writings in the Bible, was prophetized by Benjamin in Benjamin’s own Testament.

The Testament of Benjamin Concerning a Pure Mind.

11. And I shall no longer be called a ravening wolf [192] on account of your ravages, but a worker of the Lord, distributing food to them that work what is good. And one [193] shall rise up from my seed in the latter times, beloved of the Lord, hearing upon the earth His voice, enlightening with new knowledge all the Gentiles, bursting in upon Israel for salvation with the light of knowledge, and tearing it away from it like a wolf, and giving it to the synagogue of the Gentiles. And until the consummation of the ages shall he be in the synagogues of the Gentiles, and among their rulers, as a strain of music in the mouth of all; [194] and he shall be inscribed in the holy books, both his work and his word, and he shall be a chosen one of God for ever; and because of him my father Jacob instructed me, saying, He shall fill up that which lacketh of thy tribe

Paul never taught a new or different Gospel, period.

 

[LoveYeshua]

OK - Thank You


Let's Begin with the TEN Commandments

The TEN Commandments were given to Israel by the LORD directly.
Yet no one was ever able to fulfill them = Acts 15:10

Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

what you mention here if the LAW OF MOSES and has nothing to do the ten commandments, I am surprised you did not know this, shocked even please do not believe me but do verify this yourself and see, this is important, I take it you think the commandments are obsolete contrary to what Christ was teaching? please read until Acts 15:21 it was about the law of Moses it is clear.

 

[LoveYeshua]

So you’re saying Paul is teaching a different Gospel? Yes or no?

it’s not my perception, it’s easily backed up with scripture that Paul frequently met up with other apostles and worked out issues, there are examples of this in the Book of Acts. So no, it not my perception it’s a fact. Peter himself eludes to it in his own epistle.

yes, study this yourself and see many elements are similar but Paul focuses on the cross and sporadically touched a bit what Christ said but Paul is confusing for many and many twist his meanings as it is written in 2 peter

2Pe 3:16 He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

2Pe 3:17 Therefore, beloved, since you already know these things, be on your guard so that you will not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure standing.

 

[LoveYeshua]

@LoveYeshua - where did you go?

away cycling, really need the exrcise... LOL

 

[LoveYeshua]

You still are not being straight with me.

Which is it? Do you believe Paul's writings or not? You say, If it differs . . . then does it? Be clear and precises, if you wouldn't mind. Succinct.

Much love!

I replied already

 

[LoveYeshua]

Paul, and the inclusion of his writings in the Bible, was prophetized by Benjamin in Benjamin’s own Testament.

The Testament of Benjamin Concerning a Pure Mind.

11. And I shall no longer be called a ravening wolf [192] on account of your ravages, but a worker of the Lord, distributing food to them that work what is good. And one [193] shall rise up from my seed in the latter times, beloved of the Lord, hearing upon the earth His voice, enlightening with new knowledge all the Gentiles, bursting in upon Israel for salvation with the light of knowledge, and tearing it away from it like a wolf, and giving it to the synagogue of the Gentiles. And until the consummation of the ages shall he be in the synagogues of the Gentiles, and among their rulers, as a strain of music in the mouth of all; [194] and he shall be inscribed in the holy books, both his work and his word, and he shall be a chosen one of God for ever; and because of him my father Jacob instructed me, saying, He shall fill up that which lacketh of thy tribe

Paul never taught a new or different Gospel, period.

This is from the Testament of Benjamin is pseudepigrapha—a work written under someone else’s name, not part of the Hebrew Bible or the New Testament. Jews never considered it Scripture, and early Christians debated its value and so do I!