The Holy People and the Treaty

[Spiritual Israelite]

Understanding, logic and common sense, are far from you.

LOL. You complain about me and you say rude things like this. You are such a hypocrite.

It seems that your thinking is - we don't have any future events, its all allegorical, spiritual or history.

You seem to have a problem with spiritual things which is very troubling. I have said that I believe things like significantly increased persecution, apostasy, deception and wickedness are things that would be signs of Jesus's soon return, but you try to say that I don't believe in any future events just because I don't try to interpret the Bible using the current daily news like you do.

I know you believe Jesus will Return, but nothing before that and KABOOM; nothing after that.

What a lie! I have told you recently that I believe things like significantly increased persecution, apostasy, deception and wickedness are things that would be signs of Jesus's soon return and then you say nonsense like this. What is wrong with you? Why do you have no conscience about lying?

This belief is just 'head in the sand' stuff and says to God; I don't care for Your warnings and extensive information of what You Plan.

LOL. The warnings given in scripture about things that would be signs of His soon return are given in passages like Matthew 24:9-13, Matthew 24:23-26 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12. Increased persecution, apostasy, deception and wickedness. You completely ignore all that! You focus on nuclear missiles instead! What a joke that is! Spiritual things mean nothing to you. Only physical disasters mean anything to you.

That attitude is OK for you, but to promote it and to say how those who do believe the Prophesies, are dumb, is another matter.

When did I say you are dumb? Nowhere. You have called my beliefs dumb at times and I think some of your beliefs are dumb as well. Notice I'm talking about our beliefs or doctrine here and not about us as human beings. But, it's okay for you to disparage my doctrine, but I can't do the same when I think you share a belief that makes no sense?

 

[Zao is life]

I agree that Keraz is correct.

Confusing? Your reply takes the cake!
Maybe you could take a few pointers from Keraz.

LOL. Maybe your view about Revelation 12 is the same as his and you have built your castles of sand upon it equally enthusiastically.

Maybe you could take a few pointers from scripture instead of from other humans and your own imagination. Revelation 12 never even implies or gives any hint that the things it is talking about are still to take place. But it does imply that the war in heaven took place when Christ was caught up to God and his throne, and everything followed from there.

I realize that no one can stop yourself, @Davy or @Keraz from inserting your own private interpretations into prophetic scripture. You've made it very clear - so clear that I can almost see the sign you have up: "Mind closed about this until further notice".

 

[Davy]

Why do people not see the Bible as absolutely clear on the truth of the Lord's holy peoples being in the holy Land before the Return?
Consider Daniel 7:23-25, paralleled by Revelation 13:7, where God's people are defeated by the armies of the Anti-Christ. Where does this happen? We are told in Revelation 11:1-8...in the Holy City, where the Lord was crucified. Zechariah 14:1-2 and Daniel 11:29-35, also describe this 3 1/2 year period of traumatic testing for the people of the Lord, WHO ARE IN THE HOLY LAND AT THAT TIME.
Revelation 12:1-17 is very informative and gives more details of this 3 1/2, 42 month or 1260 day period: that chapter tell us that Satan will be thrown out of the spiritual realm and will come to earth, his angels with him. He pursues the 'woman', that we know must refer to all righteous Christian Israel. Israelites as per Galatians 3:26-29. They are at that time; living in peace and prosperity in the holy Land, as many prophesies describe. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26, + The new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5

The 'many' who had agreed to a peace treaty with the Anti-Christ, the leader of the One World Government, Daniel 9:27, are those who remain in the Land, Revelation 12:17. But those who refuse to agree with that treaty, referred to as the Treaty of Death; in Isaiah 28:14-15, will leave the holy Land and be taken to a place of safety, where they will be looked after for 1260 days, in a place prepared by God. Revelation 12:6 & 14 This division of the holy peoples, is also Prophesied in Zechariah 14:1-2 and Daniel 11:32

These are Biblical truths, proving the many prophesies about the great Second Exodus of all the Lords people, from every tribe, nation, race and language, Revelation 5:9-10, that will happen before the Return of Jesus. Then, He will destroy those conquerors of the holy Land, along with the rest of those gathered by Satan, Revelation 16:14, and bring all His people back to Jerusalem, Matthew 24:31, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

That this teaching is not known to most Christians, is how God wanted it to be. Matthew 11:25, Isaiah 42:18-20
But now as we are so close to the time of fulfillment, God is 'opening the eyes and unstopping the ears' of a few who are willing to put aside false teachings and really understand His Plans for our future. Jeremiah 30:24

Your view is... skewed... to a false scenario.

Christ's future gathering of His elect saints does not happen until the very LAST DAY of this present world, on the "day of the Lord" which both Paul and Peter says will come "as a thief in the night", and will involve God's "consuming fire" burning man's works off this earth.

Even in Luke 21:20-21, Lord Jesus commanded those of His in the countries to NOT enter into Jerusalem when Jerusalem is compassed with armies.

So Jerusalem at the end of this world is NOT GOING TO BE THE PLACE TO BE.


And the "covenant" of Daniel 9:27 is not about some peace treaty.

Per Daniel 11:23, the "vile person" that appears on the scene will make a "league", and come up and be strong with a "small people" (i.e., a small group of world leaders). But that is still not what the "covenant" of Dan.9:27 is about.

Dan 11:28
28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.
KJV

That above "covenant" is what the Daniel 9:27 confirming of the covenant is actually about. It is the re-establishment of old covenant worship by the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem. That will involve a 3rd temple built by the Jews in Jerusalem for the end, most likely when the false-Messiah shows up there, and the Jews starting up old covenant temple worship and animal sacrifices again. That is required in order for the Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 11:31 verses to take place.

Dan 11:30-31
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
KJV

 

[Wish-it]

The text of Daniel 9:27 does not say "agreement", but "covenant".

Who was Daniel praying to in Daniel 9 ? And about his people, Israel, breaking what covenant ?

What covenant established the animal sacrifices that will be stopped in the middle of the 7 years ?

A question then, so what is represented by the second half of the 3.5 years?

 

[Douggg]

A question then, so what is represented by the second half of the 3.5 years?

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

In the midst of the week does not mean at the exact mid-point day, but during the middle part of the 7 years.

The great tribulation will begin on day 1185 of the 2520 day long seven years. Day 1185 is in the middle part of the 7 years.

Day 1185 is 1335 days before Jesus returns. The 1335 days comes from Daniel 12:11-12., based on when the abomination of desolation statue image is first set-up on the temple mount.

 

[quietthinker]

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

In the midst of the week does not mean at the exact mid-point day, but during the middle part of the 7 years.

The great tribulation will begin on day 1185 of the 2520 day long seven years. Day 1185 is in the middle part of the 7 years.

Day 1185 is 1335 days before Jesus returns. The 1335 days comes from Daniel 12:11-12., based on when the abomination of desolation statue image is first set-up on the temple mount.



View attachment 66816

You avoided the question!

 

[Douggg]

You avoided the question!

What question ? Are you referring to this...

"A question then, so what is represented by the second half of the 3.5 years? "

Explain what is meant by the second half of the 3.5 years. Half of 3.5 years would be 1.75 years. And what 3.5 years ?

And what is meant by "represented" in context of the question ?

 

[quietthinker]

What question ? Are you referring to this...

"A question then, so what is represented by the second half of the 3.5 years? "

Explain what is meant by the second half of the 3.5 years. Half of 3.5 years would be 1.75 years. And what 3.5 years ?

And what is meant by "represented" in context of the question ?

you got it!

 

[Douggg]

you got it!

Well, we will have to wait until Wish-it clarifies what he meant by his question.

By explaining what he meant by the second half of the 3.5 years. Half of 3.5 years would be 1.75 years. And what 3.5 years ?

And what he meant by "represented" in context of the question ?

Personally, I am not pressing the issue. I gave my comments on Daniel 9:27 in my post #65. Hopefully, that is a sufficient response to Wish-it and we can move forward.

 

[quietthinker]

Well, we will have to wait until Wish-it clarifies what he meant by his question.

By explaining what he meant by the second half of the 3.5 years. Half of 3.5 years would be 1.75 years. And what 3.5 years ?

And what he meant by "represented" in context of the question ?

Personally, I am not pressing the issue. I gave my comments on Daniel 9:27 in my post #65. Hopefully, that is a sufficient response to Wish-it and we can move forward.

Fudging?

 

[Douggg]

Fudging?

You are not communicating in an understandable manner.

 

[quietthinker]

You are not communicating in an understandable manner.

Then you will need to gain understanding！

 

[Wish-it]

A question then, so what is represented by the second half of the 3.5 years?

Oops, poor question. For those that treat the middle of the week as the death of Jesus, what do they consider the end of the second half of the week represents?

 

[Douggg]

Oops, poor question. For those that treat the middle of the week as the death of Jesus, what do they consider the end of the second half of the week represents?

Okay, your question now makes more sense. Since I believe that Jesus did not die in the middle of the week, I will leave comments and responses to others who do.

We will see what they say will take place during the second half of the week.

 

[quietthinker]

Oops, poor question. For those that treat the middle of the week as the death of Jesus, what do they consider the end of the second half of the week represents?

The end of Israel as a nation entrusted with the oracles of God. The Gospel now goes to the Gentiles.

 

[Wish-it]

The end of Israel as a nation entrusted with the oracles of God. The Gospel now goes to the Gentiles.

But how do we know those events were 3 5 years later? Are there any scriptures which confirm it?

 

[quietthinker]

But how do we know those events were 3 5 years later? Are there any scriptures which confirm it?

This is a part of the Seventy Week prophecy given to Daniel by the angel Gabriel (Daniel 9:20-27)
This prophecy is broken up into several sections of weeks. I have underlined the specific scripture you are looking for below.

Daniel 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The context is based on the question Daniel was asking in his prayer and the interpretation using a day for a year principle, ie one day in prophecy equals one year in literal time.

The starting point of this time is given in Dan. 9:25 with the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem after the 70 years of Babylonian captivity. (Daniel 9:2)

Do you need further information? If you do, what is it you need?

 

[Wish-it]

This is a part of the Seventy Week prophecy given to Daniel by the angel Gabriel (Daniel 9:20-27)
This prophecy is broken up into several sections of weeks. I have underlined the specific scripture you are looking for below.

Daniel 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The context is based on the question Daniel was asking in his prayer and the interpretation using a day for a year principle, ie one day in prophecy equals one year in literal time.

The starting point of this time is given in Dan. 9:25 with the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem after the 70 years of Babylonian captivity. (Daniel 9:2)

Do you need further information? If you do, what is it you need?

The first point was confirming of the treaty, the middle of the seven is credited by some as being the death of Jesus, putting an end to sacrifice and offering, He then having been already crucified, sets up the abomination of Desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him, even though He died at the middle of the seven?

 

[quietthinker]

The first point was confirming of the treaty, the middle of the seven is credited by some as being the death of Jesus, putting an end to sacrifice and offering, He then having been already crucified, sets up the abomination of Desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him, even though He died at the middle of the seven?

Consider the context. Gabriel is answering Daniels prayer. His prayer is recorded in Daniel 9:1-19
Daniel is basically asking, how much longer have we (Israel) got. He's wanting to find out because in his search of Jeremiah's writings discovers that Jeremiah foretold 70yrs of captivity....which is now nearing its fulfilment.
Gabriel comes in response and gives him a far greater answer than he was expecting. Time wise, Gabriel reaches right to the end of Israel's role (time) as God's representative to the nations.

Israel kills their Messiah and even then the message of salvation goes exclusively to Israel for another 3.5 yrs. After the stoning of Stephan, they have finally rejected not only the Messiah but now his messengers. Their time is done. Now the Gospel goes to the Gentiles. The seventy weeks of years (70x7 = 490 years) prophecy is fulfilled. God has confirmed his covenant with humanity in Jesus.

 

[Douggg]

Israel kills their Messiah and even then the message of salvation goes exclusively to Israel for another 3.5 yrs. After the stoning of Stephan, they have finally rejected not only the Messiah but now his messengers. Their time is done. Now the Gospel goes to the Gentiles. The seventy weeks of years prophecy is fulfilled.

I don't think you addressed Daniel 9:27, the second half of the 7 years.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

What is the "it" that will be made desolate during that second half of the 7 years ? What are the abominations ? What marks the end of the 7 year 70th week ?

Did the sacrifice and oblation cease after Jesus's crucifixion, or did the Jews continue their temple ceremonies ?