Is God Magnanimous? - (as opposed to tyrannical)

[Gottservant]

I find this thread interesting.

I think God is like a wall. When you are outside the wall, the wall refuses you: its cold and windy and tumultuous; if you can't see the door (in the wall, let the reader observe), it looks to you as if you are being shunned or judged. But, when you are inside the wall, the ceiling is held up, the wind cannot get in, the tumult can't change your circumstances, you are warm; the wall seems friendly and welcoming, you trust it - the door confirms this!

So yes, God can be both judgmental and forgiving. Some people trust the door, others do not - who is God that he would say "the ones inside must suffer, because the ones outside refuse my power"?

 

[pandaflower]

I find this thread interesting.

I think God is like a wall. When you are outside the wall, the wall refuses you: its cold and windy and tumultuous; if you can't see the door (in the wall, let the reader observe), it looks to you as if you are being shunned or judged. But, when you are inside the wall, the ceiling is held up, the wind cannot get in, the tumult can't change your circumstances, you are warm; the wall seems friendly and welcoming, you trust it - the door confirms this!

So yes, God can be both judgmental and forgiving. Some people trust the door, others do not - who is God that he would say "the ones inside must suffer, because the ones outside refuse my power"?

Except that, " the ones inside must suffer, because the ones outside refuse my power", is not something God said.

 

[Gottservant]

Except that, " the ones inside must suffer, because the ones outside refuse my power", is not something God said.

No, but God can refuse the ones outside, out of love for peace inside.

 

[Aunty Jane]

. It is assumed that God is vengeful when we read "vengeance is mine, I will repay." But if revenge is a sin, is it not also a sin for God? Does God have carte blanche to misbehave in ways we are not allowed to? What then is godly behavior?

Are you conflating two words here?
There is “revenge” and “vengeance”...but do they mean the same thing?
No, there is a difference.

One source puts it this way......
“While often used interchangeably, "revenge" and "vengeance" have subtle differences in connotation.
"Revenge" typically refers to a personal act of retaliation, driven by emotions like anger and a desire to restore balance after a perceived wrong.
"Vengeance," on the other hand, is often seen as a more calculated and impersonal form of punishment, sometimes associated with a sense of justice or entitlement to inflict harm on someone who has wronged them.”

So God, as the Creator, has the right to set the rules and limits for his own creation. His justice is perfect, whereas ours could be flawed and skewed by many factors. Being in sinful flesh through Adam’s disobedience, we are not in any way reflective of the Father’s justice......but Jesus was, which is why he could condemn others to “Gehenna”.....which is not a “burning hell”, but eternal death as the opposite of eternal life. God has no desire or reason to torture anyone for all eternity.....only a sadistic fiend would do that.

 

[Wick Stick]

Or, to use another New Testament word, "Gracious"?

(You wanna tag Jack and Big Boy so that they can point out all the places where God was less than magnanimous, like Uzziah, Annas and Sapphira, etc.?)

I find that God is tribal, meaning that He deals with people within His group differently than those outside His group.

"Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." Romans 9:13

 

[St. SteVen]

Hell would be a hard no on that one.

That's why I have a hard "No." on hell.

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[St. SteVen]

The only strategy that I think works is to trust in God's Amazing Magnanimity (how sweet the sound!), while being very much aware that God isn't always safe.

I just got the Aslon reference. (The Chronicles of Narnia)

You can't lie to an omniscient mind-reader.

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[St. SteVen]

New topic:

The extortion gospel - "believe or burn" - not really a choice

Is the gospel preached from most pulpits really a choice? What are the stated consequences for refusing the "free gift" of eternal life? The "believe or burn" gospel amounts to extortion. A decision based on fear of the stated consequences for refusal. - Does God honor a decision based on...

www.christianityboard.com

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[rebuilder 454]

Fantastic post. Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed explanation. I hope my response doesn't anger you. But, I suppose that's godly behavior. (in the common view) We call it righteous indignation.


Granted... However, he did create us in his image, his likeness. We are his children, he is Father God. While he is, as you say: "He is Holy 'other'", we are much like him.

It seems to me that this idea that "his ways are above knowing" is used to white-wash some very bad doctrine. IMHO


I go the opposite direction on this one. Interesting how a preconception reverses the conclusion. It is assumed that God is vengeful when we read "vengeance is mine, I will repay." But if revenge is a sin, is it not also a sin for God? Does God have carte blanche to misbehave in ways we are not allowed to? What then is godly behavior? Wouldn't we be demonstrating godly behavior to take revenge? (nope)

I think to assume that God operates under a lower standard of morality than he hold us to is the wrong compass on the matter.
Jesus taught us to love our enemies because this is godly behavior. What then will God do with his enemies?

Matthew 5:44, 48 NIV
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, ...
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


I'm guessing you meant woefully MISunderstood?


He lives in inapproachable light. But does this mean he is made of blazing fury? Why is so angry with the way he created us? Are we really to blame for that? Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw.

JESUS IS COMING
And is he ever angry!


There it is again. The carte blanche latitude that we give God. He can do no wrong. Genocide for the Canaanites? No problem. Non-Christians burning in hell forever? Who cares? Just be glad it's not you.

Therefore, all the bad things the church says that he will do... who will be able stop him? Best to just roll with the punches.


If "Sinfulness and Holiness don't mix" how could anyone meet him, or have fellowship? Didn't Satan talk to God in the book of Job?
How come "we deserve zero"? (or worse) Are we not his children. Does God make broken pottery? Or some to be on a vase on a pedestal and others to be a toilet? That's quite a view. If I am understanding you. (hopefully not)

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Not trying to be ugly but I do not know another way to say your view of God is perverted.
1) get born again.
2) then, as a spirit man, walk with God and learn of Him.
3) His presence is so awesome, it disarms the skeptic and mental investigators.
4) The correct view of God is "from heaven"
Not from earthly mental skeptics that attempt to make God's character and testimony fit a temporal limited human box.

 

[St. SteVen]

Not trying to be ugly but I do not know another way to say your view of God is perverted.
1) get born again.
2) then, as a spirit man, walk with God and learn of Him.
3) His presence is so awesome, it disarms the skeptic and mental investigators.
4) The correct view of God is "from heaven"
Not from earthly mental skeptics that attempt to make God's character and testimony fit a temporal limited human box.

What becomes of those who aren't interested, or have never heard?

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[Hillsage]

That's why I have a hard "No." on hell.

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I have a "hard no" for an 'adios hell'. Which can not be found in scripture. And that Greek word actually fits the English definition of eternity
And a "softer yes" for an 'aion/aionios hell'. Two Greek words and one English word, which also can not be found in a verse of scripture.

 

[Lambano]

That's why I have a hard "No." on hell.

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You mean a "Hell, no" on Hell?

 

[Lambano]

Good point. Better to run toward it than away from it.

Agreed, and with such great advice, what do you need us for?

 

[Lambano]

I just got the Aslan reference. (The Chronicles of Narnia)

Hey, it only took 17 months. Not safe - but good.

Did you want a "safe" God?

 

[St. SteVen]

Agreed, and with such great advice, what do you need us for?

Safety in numbers? - LOL

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[St. SteVen]

Did you want a "safe" God?

Preferably.
Should I wear protective gear to a worship service?


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[Behold]

Preferably.
Should I wear protective gear to a worship service?

View attachment 66909

You were asked this over 5x......so, here it is again. @St. SteVen, as you have not yet answered this question.

You've dodged it, and deflected it, and summerized it......but no answer yet.

Here is the question..

""Do you believe that a sinner has to be forgiven their sin, and be born again on this Earth, = before they die, if they want to go to heaven?""

 

[St. SteVen]

You were asked this over 5x......so, here it is again. @St. SteVen, as you have not yet answered this question.

You've dodged it, and deflected it, and summerized it......but no answer yet.

Here is the question..

""Do you believe that a sinner has to be forgiven their sin, and be born again on this Earth, = before they die, if they want to go to heaven?""

As I have indicated, the problem is with your loaded question.
Fix the bogus question and you MIGHT get an answer.

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[Behold]

As I have indicated, the problem is with your loaded question.
Fix the bogus question and you MIGHT get an answer.

You actually believe that the other members and MODS who are reading our correspondance, wont realize your attempts to dodge this simple question, over and over, that any real Christian would have answered gladly, the first time i asked them.
Understand?
Yes you do.


Now......Do you believe that you have to be forgiven YOUR SIN, and be born again, before.you die, to go to heaven".?? @St. SteVen

 

[St. SteVen]

You actually believe that the other members and MODS who are reading our correspondance, wont realize your attempts to dodge this simple question, over and over, that any real Christian would have answered gladly, the first time i asked them.
Understand?
Do you believe that you have to be forgiven YOUR SIN, and be born again, before.you die, to go to heaven".?

I'm probably not the only one who has a problem with your bogus question and your slimy yes/no demand.

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