Contending with the devil

[Hiddenthings]

Good on Matthais for trusting Scripture regarding Satan and his angels.

View attachment 67241​

Matthias doesn't know how to interpret the symbols of Revelation 12 Stumpmaster. He thinks a literal woman can give birth in heaven.

This was not a very good contribution to this thread unless you have an understanding you would like to share.

 

[Wick Stick]

It was a genuine question - do you know what a simile is and how they are used? Many do not.

I think you have your answer to that already

The term Satan (Greek: adversary) is used by Jesus to describe the binding power of sin, particularly as it manifests through disease. Several passages highlight this idea:

• Luke 11:14–23: Jesus heals a mute man, with the condition attributed to demon possession (v. 14), as was common language at the time. Jesus links the affliction to the "house" of Satan (vv. 17–18), and the healing itself is described as evidence that the kingdom of God had come upon them, demonstrating the presence and power of the King (vv. 20–22).
• Luke 13:10–17: Jesus heals a woman crippled for eighteen years, described as having "a spirit of infirmity" (v. 11). Yet Jesus interprets her condition as having been bound by Satan for those eighteen years (v. 16), reinforcing the idea of Satan as a symbol of sin's oppressive effects.

So, when the seventy disciples returned rejoicing over their ability to cast out demons, Jesus interpreted their success as the fall of Satan—a symbolic overthrow of the adversary's influence. Their victories over illness and affliction were so powerful and immediate that Jesus likened them to lightning falling from heaven (Luke 10:18). Still, He reminded them to rejoice not in their authority over spirits, but in the greater reality that their names were written in heaven (Luke 10:20).

That's genuinely interesting. Luke the physician has a series of stories highlighting the nature of disease and its remedy? I've always read these chapters merely as accounts of Jesus interaction with the Pharisees, and some sign wonders. Also, I've never regarded Luke as having any unique perspective among the synoptic authors... perhaps this is it.

This is not very intuitive - medicine today has all but discarded the idea of spiritual oppression. It's difficult to envision issues of health in terms of pneumatics, as the New Testament authors do. But it seems to have merit.

Wick, as you can see, Christians have often used this verse to support the idea of an angel’s fall from Heaven, but it’s clear there is no contextual basis for that interpretation.

I accept your interpretation of Luke 10 as viable, but not to the exclusion of all other interpretations. I think there's still some contextual basis for the other reading. Let's say Luke writes on devils as a matter of health and healing (well, the opposite). He still may think the boogeyman caused it. That wasn't ruled out.

I appreciate the effort you’re putting into seeking the truth, others here would do well to follow your example.

You're making me work today!

 

[Hiddenthings]

I think you have your answer to that already

That's genuinely interesting. Luke the physician has a series of stories highlighting the nature of disease and its remedy? I've always read these chapters merely as accounts of Jesus interaction with the Pharisees, and some sign wonders. Also, I've never regarded Luke as having any unique perspective among the synoptic authors... perhaps this is it.

This is not very intuitive - medicine today has all but discarded the idea of spiritual oppression. It's difficult to envision issues of health in terms of pneumatics, as the New Testament authors do. But it seems to have merit.

Ideas of an evil supernatural being devouring or possessing people at will are never warned against by Christ in the Gospels. This is likely because his miracles were centered on healing, and those he healed were often chosen randomly.

If such possession truly occurred in the way it's often portrayed, then where in Scripture are we clearly instructed on how to defend against it? And if that danger still exists, why aren’t all those who don't know Christ today experiencing the same physical afflictions seen in the first century?

The more you question this subject the closer you draw to a certain truth.

I accept your interpretation of Luke 10 as viable, but not to the exclusion of all other interpretations. I think there's still some contextual basis for the other reading. Let's say Luke writes on devils as a matter of health and healing (well, the opposite). He still may think the boogeyman caused it. That wasn't ruled out.

You're making me work today!

Sorry! I've actually studied this subject for 32 years, so I’ve built up quite a substantial body of work and resources on it.

As you could see in Luke 10 the context drives a correct understanding and to force the other, just doesn't fit. I enjoy the Masters teaching as they require you to dig deep!

 

[Hiddenthings]

I accept your interpretation of Luke 10 as viable,

All I ask is this, not for any personal gain, but simply to see a fellow laborer with a genuine desire to open the Word and let it speak its truth, rather than just speaking at and over it.

I tend to get impatient with those who don’t make good use of their talents...especially those who merely copy and paste an image of slabs of text and say "look, see!"

 

[David in NJ]

Not Jude 7(see below) The context is Spiritual Authority :

(Jud 1:8) Yet in the same way, these also in their dreaming defile the flesh, despise authority, and slander celestial beings.
(Jud 1:9) But Michael, the archangel, when contending with the devil and arguing about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him an abusive condemnation, but said, “May the Lord rebuke you!”
(Jud 1:10) But these speak evil of whatever things they don’t know. They are destroyed in these things that they understand naturally, like the creatures without reason.

What do you mean by: "not Jude 7"

Spiritual Authority over all the angels, including Satan and the fallen ones, belongs to CHRIST.

 

[Matthias]

What do you mean by: "not Jude 7"

Spiritual Authority over all the angels, including Satan and the fallen ones, belongs to CHRIST.

There was a mistake in the OP. I originally typed Jude 7 when it should have been Jude 9. @Stumpmaster noticed the mistake and brought it to my attention. I edited the OP to correct the reference.

P.S.

I’m waiting now to see if he notices something that the lying spirit told him about me.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Everyone makes mistakes Matthias, it just some are more serious than others.

Post #26 is the correct context for Jude 9...no one has challenged the context yet, and those who hold to fanciful notions about fiery supernatural beings who dwell in darkness have no answers.

Although progress is being made.

 

[talons]

@Matthias , I may be crazy but I think the title of this thread has a two fold meaning .

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Matthias , I may be crazy but I think the title of this thread has a two fold meaning .

Well crazies are certainly going around ;)

 

[Matthias]

@Matthias , I may be crazy but I think the title of this thread has a two fold meaning .

 

[David in NJ]

@Matthias , I may be crazy but I think the title of this thread has a two fold meaning .

speak it out

 

[Wick Stick]

If such possession truly occurred in the way it's often portrayed, then where in Scripture are we clearly instructed on how to defend against it? And if that danger still exists, why aren’t all those who don't know Christ today experiencing the same physical afflictions seen in the first century?

A single explanation for both those questions would seem to be - Satan was defeated about 2,000 years ago. Can I invoke Occam's razor here?

The more you question this subject the closer you draw to a certain truth.

Well, don't beat around the bush. Say it.

 

[David in NJ]

Well crazies are certainly going around ;)

Yeah, the craziest thing on this thread are those who do not believe God when He speaks of supernatural entities that HE clearly defined.

 

[Matthias]

speak it out

 

[Stumpmaster]

P.S.

I’m waiting now to see if he notices something that the lying spirit told him about me.

​

 

[David in NJ]

View attachment 67257​

This is clearly seen everyday at the Vatican...............

 

[Hiddenthings]

A single explanation for both those questions would seem to be - Satan was defeated about 2,000 years ago. Can I invoke Occam's razor here?

Well, don't beat around the bush. Say it.

Nice pickup

Hebrews 2:14 "Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself (Jesus) likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,"

The issue Wick is many Christians don't know what "had" the power of death nor can they use their Bibles to prove it.

Disappointing really

 

[Hiddenthings]

View attachment 67257​

Who is the adversary who pretends to be an angel of light? What is the context Stump? The images are awkward BTW.

 

[Matthias]

View attachment 67257​

The spirit offered you an opinion about me and then followed it up with a flat out lie about what I believe.

He is the son of his father the devil.

 

[David in NJ]

Who is the adversary who pretends to be an angel of light? What is the context Stump? The images are awkward BTW.

Warsaw Priest Charged With Beating, Burning Homeless Man

Archbishop moves to have murder suspect defrocked

www.newser.com