Origin stories which don’t exist for people, places and things mentioned in the Bible
- Thread starter Matthias
- Start date
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A forum member recently wrote to me saying (in regard to the belief - which happens to be my belief - that the devil is a fallen angel and the demons are fallen angels):
“No origin story! Such a frustrating doctrine to hold when you have nothing to pin your beliefs on.”
Bold is mine.
I’m not at all persuaded by it but I recognize that other members might be.
The purpose of this thread is not to evaluate the fallen angel(s) doctrine (there’s already a thread dealing with that) but rather the strength of the general principle being used against it -> the “no origin story” argument.
***
The second person on my list would be Melchizedek.
“No origin story! Such a frustrating doctrine to hold when you have nothing to pin your beliefs on.”
Bold is mine.
I’m not at all persuaded by it but I recognize that other members might be.
The purpose of this thread is not to evaluate the fallen angel(s) doctrine (there’s already a thread dealing with that) but rather the strength of the general principle being used against it -> the “no origin story” argument.
***
The second person on my list would be Melchizedek.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
It must be deeply frustrating that there’s no actual origin story for your fallen angel. And even more troubling, perhaps, is the fact that this being is never clearly identified or defined anywhere in the Bible.
And the fact that Jesus never once acknowledges this being’s existence must drive you mad, mad enough to keep creating posts like this every time your false doctrine is challenged.
And the fact that Jesus never once acknowledges this being’s existence must drive you mad, mad enough to keep creating posts like this every time your false doctrine is challenged.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
Not clear to me what you mean. Are you talking about the origins of people, places and things who/which are mentioned in the bible, but the bible does not give an account of their origins? You say, "Starting at the top: God." But over and over again, the bible describes God as eternal/everlasting. So it makes no sense to talk of the origin of God. Another I can think of whose origin is not described in the bible is Melchizedek, who I notice you mention in your second post.
Yes.
Exactly.
The Christadelphian is using a borrowed argument from atheism - “no origin story = not real“ - to support his belief that the devil and the demons aren’t real and that those who don’t agree with him are “pagan” and “crazy”.
It’s an important principle for him, underpinning his argument, but it fails spectacularly; for the very reason you’re pointing out.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
How about the giants Joshua killed. Since the flood killed the original giants. Where did they come from?
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I did understand your post correctly, it seems. God bless you.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
@David Lamb is unlikely to engage with your futile OP, which seems more about justifying your own false teachings than seeking truth. David and I have already explored the lack of evidence for such a being, and I’m quite confident he has no desire to revisit this topic anytime soon.
If he does here are the links:
Christadelphians, the Devil and Satan
It's the only instances in the Master's ministry where he references angels. ...by that name. In the other thread, we're looking at a passage where Jesus references Satan, and devils, and evil spirits. It's not a slam-dunk that those are fallen angels (that would be petitio principii). But...
www.christianityboard.com
Contending with the devil
“First, the devil is real. In popular culture, there are a wide variety of depictions of the devil. These depictions range from the comical to the abstract. Sometimes, the devil is a little red man with horns, a tail, and a pitchfork, urging people towards sin. Other times, the devil is merely...
www.christianityboard.com
The flood killed all but the eight humans (and animals) on the ark. That being the case, I presume that someone on the ark was carrying the genes.
If that’s not the case then we either don’t have the full story preserved for us in scripture… which is possible …
or - using the foolish atheist / Christadelphian principle of “no origin story = no existence” - the giants Joshua killed weren’t real.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Most would see this as the behavior of an unhinged forum member who’s lost the ability to reason through their own beliefs, a regrettable place to end up in any discussion.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
When you deny the Word as it is written and refuse to provide an answer to it, you’ve effectively removed yourself from its influence. Until you’re willing to address Genesis 3:1, you’ve lost all credibility in this discussion.
God is real. Melchizedek is real. The giants are real. Satan and the demons are real.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
Even I know by now, @Matthias isn't reading you.@David Lamb is unlikely to engage with your futile OP, which seems more about justifying your own false teachings than seeking truth. David and I have already explored the lack of evidence for such a being, and I’m quite confident he has no desire to revisit this topic anytime soon.
If he does here are the links:
Christadelphians, the Devil and Satan
It's the only instances in the Master's ministry where he references angels. ...by that name. In the other thread, we're looking at a passage where Jesus references Satan, and devils, and evil spirits. It's not a slam-dunk that those are fallen angels (that would be petitio principii). But...
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Interesting how timely his posts are lol.
You all can play your games, but the truth stands and remains!
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
This is where we are at.
Matthias denies the Word as it is written and refuses to provide an answer to it, you’ve effectively removed yourself from its influence. Until you’re willing to address Genesis 3:1, you’ve lost all credibility in this discussion.
Only he can re-enter the discussion and deal with the evidence...so much!
Matthias denies the Word as it is written and refuses to provide an answer to it, you’ve effectively removed yourself from its influence. Until you’re willing to address Genesis 3:1, you’ve lost all credibility in this discussion.
Only he can re-enter the discussion and deal with the evidence...so much!
