Authentic Christianity Part 1: Head Christian vs Heart Christian

[Episkopos]

Are you interested in deeper life issues, spiritual truth and reality, ultimate purpose, community and authenticity? There is a spiritual war being waged over the souls of God's people. Most have no understanding of where they are in an eternal context. How far out from our comfort zone are we willing to go in order to discover our true condition? How far are we willing to go to discover the truth?

 

[Behold]

You are still trying to use the members to get "clicks" for your Youtube channel?


Also, You teach that "The Cross is not about Forgiveness"..

So, that teaching denies The Cross itself.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Are you interested in deeper life issues, spiritual truth and reality, ultimate purpose, community and authenticity? There is a spiritual war being waged over the souls of God's people. Most have no understanding of where they are in an eternal context. How far out from our comfort zone are we willing to go in order to discover our true condition? How far are we willing to go to discover the truth?

I like Bryan Duncan's song: bryan duncan into my heart out of my head - Video Search Results

In our head we get so-o-o confused. We need to align ourselves with the Holy Spirit, with the love of God, with peace of mind because of the cross.

 

[Episkopos]

You are still trying to use the members to get "clicks" for your Youtube channel?

I don't have the same motives as you. I'm trying to help fellow believers out of any false delusion they may have picked up and steer them toward the actual truth who is Christ.

Also, You teach that "The Cross is not about Forgiveness"..

You have adopted the shallow gospel of the Bourgeoisie. Th truth is that the gospel is about liberation from the power of sin and death. Resurrection life is about walking as Jesus walked...in HIS power and life. So the cross is about cleansing and liberation...not forgiveness. God doesn't need any help in order to be merciful. But His mercy is NOT extended to those who refuse the power of the cross and instead preach a false gospel of vain beliefs that have no power over sin and death.

So, that teaching denies The Cross itself.

The opposite is true, You deny the power of the cross to have people walk in Christ's victory. Instead you just want immunity for prosecution from ongoing sin.

 

[Nameaboveallnames]

Are you interested in deeper life issues, spiritual truth and reality, ultimate purpose, community and authenticity? There is a spiritual war being waged over the souls of God's people. Most have no understanding of where they are in an eternal context. How far out from our comfort zone are we willing to go in order to discover our true condition? How far are we willing to go to discover the truth?

I just listened to your entire podcast, and here is my conclusion...

On the one hand, I understand the distinction you are seeking to make between a "head Christian" and a "heart Christian," and I agree with you on that.

On the other hand, you definitely misinterpreted/misapplied certain scriptures, and you also made some statements that simply are not true.

For example, you definitely altered God's intended meaning while quoting the following:

"Thou hast forsaken me, saith the LORD, thou art gone backward: therefore will I stretch out my hand against thee, and destroy thee; I am weary with repenting." (Jeremiah 15:6)

Whereas you wrongly interpreted "I am weary with repenting" to mean that God was wearing with the people constantly repenting (in reality, they refused to repent), in context and in truth, God was saying that he was weary of repenting or weary or withholding judgment on the people.

 

[Episkopos]

I just listened to your entire podcast, and here is my conclusion...

On the one hand, I understand the distinction you are seeking to make between a "head Christian" and a "heart Christian," and I agree with you on that.

On the other hand, you definitely misinterpreted/misapplied certain scriptures, and you also made some statements that simply are not true.

For example, you definitely altered God's intended meaning while quoting the following:

"Thou hast forsaken me, saith the LORD, thou art gone backward: therefore will I stretch out my hand against thee, and destroy thee; I am weary with repenting." (Jeremiah 15:6)

Whereas you wrongly interpreted "I am weary with repenting" to mean that God was wearing with the people constantly repenting (in reality, they refused to repent), in context and in truth, God was saying that he was weary of repenting or weary or withholding judgment on the people.

Thanks for your comment, and good observation. You are right about the other context, that of God's own repenting, of that statement, that I didn't mention. But the study of the bible at depth shows more than one aspect or level to God's word. Basing this on what God is doing and what we are doing. So the verse is double sided, as so many are.

So then good catch! :) God tires of always allowing us to change His mind or us testing His mercy, as abundant as that is.

Do you have any other misapplications on my part to report? I appreciate constructive criticism. :) <><

 

[Episkopos]

I am weary with repenting." (Jeremiah 15:6)

Upon further examination...I hadn't looked at the Hebrew initially... the word for repenting actually is NACHAM which has more to do with comforting or rest. When God says "they shall not enter My rest" because of unbelief....I think that covers the aspect of God tiring with His people.

On the other hand God tires of our lip service...our claims to repentance. With our lips we honour God, and claim to repent, but our hearts are far from Him. As in "the chastisement of OUR peace was upon Him." What gives us our rest is NOT always His rest.

 

[Nameaboveallnames]

I will add this, and I will probably get crucified for saying it.

In your podcast, you said "God doesn't hate the wicked...no," but is this true? Sure, there are those who constantly seek to brainwash us into believing this while telling us, "God hates the sin, but loves the sinner," but, again, is this true?

From what I see in scripture, God hates both iniquity and the worker of iniquity.

For example, we read:

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." (Hebrews 1:8-9...quoting Psalm 45:6-7)

"The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity." (Psalm 5:5)

In what we just read, we see that God hates both iniquity and all workers of iniquity.

Prior to salvation, we are "by nature the children of wrath" (Ephesian 2:3), and if we refuse to repent due to our "hardness and impenitent hearts," then we are "treasuring up unto ourselves wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to every man according to his deeds" (Romans 2:5-6).

In his mercy and grace, God has extended towards us a way of escape by sending his Son into the world to redeem us, but if we refuse his gracious offer, then his wrath continues to abide upon us.

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." (John 3:36)

Because we don't see sinners the way that God sees them, as those who are "by nature the children of wrath," we have no urgency to see them saved through the preaching and receiving of the gospel.

 

[Episkopos]

I will add this, and I will probably get crucified for saying it.

In your podcast, you said "God doesn't hate the wicked...no," but is this true? Sure, there are those who constantly seek to brainwash us into believing this while telling us, "God hates the sin, but loves the sinner," but, again, is this true?

From what I see in scripture, God hates both iniquity and the worker of iniquity.

For example, we read:

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
" (Hebrews 1:8-9...quoting Psalm 45:6-7)

"The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity." (Psalm 5:5)

And yet God will forgive iniquity. We all have a share in iniquity...even King David. But we can't say that God hates David...who worked iniquity. So then the seal of the Lord is to DEPART from iniquity (I hope you got that part)....meaning to forsake what God hates.

In what we just read, we see that God hates both iniquity and all workers of iniquity.

Prior to salvation, we are "by nature the children of wrath" (Ephesian 2:3), and if we refuse to repent due to our "hardness and impenitent hearts," then we are "treasuring up unto ourselves wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to every man according to his deeds" (Romans 2:5-6).

In his mercy and grace, God has extended towards us a way of escape by sending his Son into the world to redeem us, but if we refuse his gracious offer, then his wrath continues to abide upon us.

You are missing the deeper point here. You are only seeing the judicial aspect of salvation and leaving out the participatory aspect of salvation. Jesus came to destroy sin and its power. All who sin are slaves to sin. The power of the cross breaks that power...so that we are made free from sin...to serve the living God in holiness...without any spot or wrinkle of sin.

I doubt you will agree...because the greater understanding of the gospel is NOT popular ...sunday services are NOT for disciples. Modern doctrine is for the crowds not the saints.

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." (John 3:36)

Jesus didn't come to condemn the world....but to save it. To undo the curse of Adam. Context is important. Jesus was speaking to the Jews who actually saw Him do His works. Jesus is still the Saviour of all men ESPECIALLY (but not exclusively) of them that believe.

Because we don't see sinners the way that God sees them, as those who are "by nature the children of wrath," we have no urgency to see them saved through the preaching and receiving of the gospel.

God is love. We are what we allow ourselves to be. In the end the workers of iniquity among us (believers) will be rejected. Receiving the gospel informs us of the availability of grace that frees us from the power of sin...in order to participate willingly in laying down our own lives in order to live by the grace of God...by grace through faith.

 

[Nameaboveallnames]

And yet God will forgive iniquity. We all have a share in iniquity...even King David. But we can't say that God hates David...who worked iniquity. So then the seal of the Lord is to DEPART from iniquity (I hope you got that part)....meaning to forsake what God hates.

Yes, God will forgive iniquity, if we repent of it or depart from it.

What if David had not repented?

What if what he penned in Psalm 51 had never been a reality in his life?

Here is but an excerpt of the same:

"Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me." (Psalm 51:10)

Isn't the above the whole point behind your podcast?

You are missing the deeper point here. You are only seeing the judicial aspect of salvation and leaving out the participatory aspect of salvation. Jesus came to destroy sin and its power. All who sin are slaves to sin. The power of the cross breaks that power...so that we are made free from sin...to serve the living God in holiness...without any spot or wrinkle of sin.

I doubt you will agree...because the greater understanding of the gospel is NOT popular ...sunday services are NOT for disciples. Modern doctrine is for the crowds not the saints.

I am not missing anything, and I totally agree that Jesus gives us the ability to walk lives that are truly free from sin. After all, that is what his name literally means.

"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people FROM their sins." (Matthew 1:21)

Jesus didn't come to condemn the world....but to save it. To undo the curse of Adam. Context is important. Jesus was speaking to the Jews who actually saw Him do His works. Jesus is still the Saviour of all men ESPECIALLY (but not exclusively) of them that believe.

I understand that Jesus didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it, but he does so by saving us FROM our sins.

Again, isn't that the whole intent behind your podcast?

I am almost hesitant to ask, but what do you mean by "ESPECIALLY (but not exclusively) of them that believe?"

I get the allusion to 1 Timothy 4:10, but how are you reading/understanding it?

I am mostly inquiring about the part of your quote that I bold-faced.

God is love. We are what we allow ourselves to be. In the end the workers of iniquity among us (believers) will be rejected. Receiving the gospel informs us of the availability of grace that frees us from the power of sin...in order to participate willingly in laying down our own lives in order to live by the grace of God...by grace through faith.

On this, we agree.

 

[Behold]

I don't have the same motives as you.

You insult God's Grace by denying that The Cross is about forgiveness, and then want to pretend your motive is pure, or Godly, or true.

You have adopted the shallow gospel of the Bourgeoisie.

Ive Adopted the Gospel of the Grace of God whereby i publically and privately acknowledge that Jesus paid with His blood and death, the sacrifice for the sin of the World..., that God requried to save a believer.
John 3:16-17
You have deep mental reservations with this simple Truth regarding the purpose of The Cross..., which is why your theology insults The Cross., and tries to replace it with your multiple bizarre religious theories including "a higher walk in Zion" and similar man made concepts.

Th truth is that the gospel is about liberation from the power of sin and death.

The Gospel is "about" the fact that your sin is separating you from God, and The Cross of Christ is the forgiveness for your sin, that is the eternal remedy, and reconciliation.
Your false theology, is not found there.

You deny the power of the cross to have people walk in Christ's victory.

Actually its the power of the Holy Spirit that generates the power to walk in Christ's Victory.
The Cross Of Christ, purges sin, and allows the Christian eternal reconciliaiton with God.
So, once again, you are clueless regarding God's Grace, or the Holy Spirit's work, or the purpose of The Cross of Christ, according to your Threads, Videos, and Posts. @Episkopos

 

[Episkopos]

Yes, God will forgive iniquity, if we repent of it or depart from it.

What if David had not repented?

What if what he penned in Psalm 51 had never been a reality in his life?

Here is but an excerpt of the same:

"Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me." (Psalm 51:10)

Isn't the above the whole point behind your podcast?

Yes.

I am not missing anything, and I totally agree that Jesus gives us the ability to walk lives that are truly free from sin. After all, that is what his name literally means.

"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people FROM their sins." (Matthew 1:21)


I understand that Jesus didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it, but he does so by saving us FROM our sins.

Again, isn't that the whole intent behind your podcast?

Yes.

I am almost hesitant to ask, but what do you mean by "ESPECIALLY (but not exclusively) of them that believe?"

I get the allusion to 1 Timothy 4:10, but how are you reading/understanding it?

I am mostly inquiring about the part of your quote that I bold-faced.

Exactly what it says. Jesus died for the sins of the world...not just the church or those who heard of Him. We will be judged by our works, not our beliefs.

On this, we agree.

OK

 

[Nameaboveallnames]

Exactly what it says. Jesus died for the sins of the world...not just the church or those who heard of Him. We will be judged by our works, not our beliefs.

Are you saying that people can be saved apart from believing in Jesus?

 

[Episkopos]

Are you saying that people can be saved apart from believing in Jesus?

Not at this time (in this life). Jesus is the only door to salvation. The only way to the Father. There is no other power or law but Christ that saves a person from sin and death. But that doesn't mean that God will not have mercy on those who never knew Jesus. The world will be judged by their works, not their beliefs. And many believers will be rejected because they work iniquity.

When the bible says...saved...that can mean a whole lot of things. Unfortunately evangelical dogmas are simplistic and shallow in only meaning a get to heaven card. Many who are presently saved will be cut off from God in eternity.

So many don't understand why the bible is such a big book. The understanding of most fits into a little booklet...or as in Rev. 10...the "little book."
"My people perish for lack of knowledge" (also wisdom and understanding).

 

[Wynona]

Are you interested in deeper life issues, spiritual truth and reality, ultimate purpose, community and authenticity? There is a spiritual war being waged over the souls of God's people. Most have no understanding of where they are in an eternal context. How far out from our comfort zone are we willing to go in order to discover our true condition? How far are we willing to go to discover the truth?

I don't say this lightly but this podcast was really edifying. It is rare that I find that in a message that isn't Scripture.

The fact that God is trying to rid us of our fleshly death grip on this world really resonated with me and reminds me of the heart fire I felt when I first became a Christian.


Thank you. I shared this with my husband.