Is it possible to lose salvation?

[BreadOfLife]

basically saying if I lie cheat and steal I can lose salvation.

This is not only an abomination - but an appalling lack of understanding of God’s grace.

When we come to Christ in repentance – we are forgiven for ALL of our PAST sibs, We are NOT forgiven for future sins unless we repent of them. We don’t get to just “sin with impunity” because we belong to Christ. All sin damages our relationship with God and it needs to be confessed (James 5:16).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He made salvation available that is NOT the same as you are saved.

Paul said this

Eph 2: 8-9 For by GRACE I HAVE BEEN SAVED ( A completed action) through faith not works

2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN

Titus 3: 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED US ( A completed action. through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

Now maybe you are not saved, and still need to act on Gods grace.. But the rest of us, we have been saved

If you are irrevocably saved because Jesus died in the cross then you can do whatever you like after you are saved.

This does not mean I want to.

Thats where you and I differ.

You not only do not think Jesus can save you completely. You do not believe he has the power to change you.

So let me ask you when exactly is someone irrevocably saved?

When God said they were. Here let me help you

eph 1: 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

John 1: 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE

John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already

John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)

I did these things about 50 years ago. When will you do this?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is not only an abomination - but an appalling lack of understanding of God’s grace.

When we come to Christ in repentance – we are forgiven for ALL of our PAST sibs, We are NOT forgiven for future sins unless we repent of them. We don’t get to just “sin with impunity” because we belong to Christ. All sin damages our relationship with God and it needs to be confessed (James 5:16).

Gods grace is unmerited favor

I can not earn grace by not lying cheating and steeling.

The lye is if you keep from doing these things, Maybe God will save you..

 

[Rich R]

Which tradition?
You mean biblical tradition?
Do you mean HOW the covenants were studied and taught?

Man's tradition.

Here's what scripture says:

Jer 31:31-34,

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:​

​

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:​

​

33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.​

​

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.​

God said He's make a new covenant with Israel and with Judah. Read the rest of the verses and it's patently obvious we aren't there yet. I've yet to see a lamb and wolf laying down together, nor have I seen a small child playing with a rattlesnake (Isaiah 11).

Now, as Hebrews says, the old covenant is fading, but the new one isn't here yet.

Heb 8:13,

In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that (old covenant) which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.​

The old covenant is ready to vanish. It will actually vanish when Jesus makes his second advent, not as a lamb for slaughter, but as king of kings and lord of lords.

Do you believe the NC began after the cross...which actually IS when it began since a person must die first before their testimony becomes valid.....

Do you believe the NC was NEVER mentioned in any of the early Covenants?
IOW....do you believe that the NC was a culmination of all the other Covenants?

Sounds like you don't.

Maybe it did to you, but I trust the above comment clarified things.

Are you not Christian? Are you Jewish?
I ask because you said you love Christians so maybe you're not Christian?

Not sure where you're going with that.

Jesus said He had other sheep and that they were to join the flock.
It was one flock and Jesus is the shepherd.

It fits because the NC was in God's mind from the beginning.

Yes. He also knew with whom He'd make it. He made an OC with Israel and He'll make a NC with Israel. He made no covenant with the church of the body of Christ though.

Did God make the NC with Israel and Judah?
Weren't they both detroyed by invasion?
Israel by the Assyrians and the Babylonians.....
Judah by the Romans when Jerusalem was totally destroyed in 70AD

It could be debated that Jeremiah meant far into the future.
At the precise time to which you're stating when the New Covenant would take force.

Deuteronomy 28:49-52 and Lamentations 2:8-9 are interesting:

Deuteronomy looks forward:

49“The LORD will bring a nation against you from afar, from the end of the earth, as the eagle swoops down, a nation whose language you shall not understand, 50a nation of fierce countenance who will have no respect for the old, nor show favor to the young. 51“Moreover, it shall eat the offspring of your herd and the produce of your ground until you are destroyed, who also leaves you no grain, new wine, or oil, nor the increase of your herd or the young of your flock until they have caused you to perish. 52“It shall besiege you in all your towns until your high and fortified walls in which you trusted come down throughout your land, and it shall besiege you in all your towns throughout your land which the LORD your God has given you.

Lamentations looks back:

7The Lord has rejected His altar,
He has abandoned His sanctuary;
He has delivered into the hand of the enemy
The walls of her palaces.
They have made a noise in the house of the LORD
As in the day of an appointed feast.

8The LORD determined to destroy
The wall of the daughter of Zion.
He has stretched out a line,
He has not restrained His hand from destroying,
And He has caused rampart and wall to lament;
They have languished together.

9Her gates have sunk into the ground,
He has destroyed and broken her bars.
Her king and her princes are among the nations;
The law is no more.
Also, her prophets find
No vision from the LORD.

I won't be doing the arguing because I'm not scholarly enough...
But Jeremiah might have been speaking about something that did happen...
the fall of Jerusalem.....

The New Covenant is right now.
Why do you think it's for the future?

At the Last Supper Jesus said THIS IS THE BLOOD OF HE NEW COVENANT (my words).

Jesus was instituting the New Covenant.

He certainly started the ball rolling to get it to begin fading away, but it hasn't ended just yet. (Heb 8:13, referenced above)

He did not say that it was for the future.
He said it was the everlasting Covenant.

Everlasting has no time...

"Everlasting" is the Hebrew word, "olem." It literally means as far as the eye can see. It's more about the future, not that it is something that existed eternally. The NC will begin at some point, but once it begins it will never end.

In the Abrahamic Covenant God wanted to call a people to Himself from which all nations would be blessed.
Genesis 12:1-3
3And I will bless those who bless you,
And the one who curses you I will curse.
And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.”

All the families will be blessed when Jesus makes his second advent and the new covenant if ratified.

The church was a mystery hidden in God until He revealed to Paul. Everything Paul said was meant to define the nature of the Christian church. It is not a covenant at all. Just study the word "mystery" in Paul's epistles.

 

[GodsGrace]

His faith was perfected by works

Abraham had a weak faith in Gen 15. Yet that faith of a mustard seed saved him completely. Not decades later

Your right, I am not arguing with you. Paul; is.. And paul will win..

EG
Paul taught doing good works:

Ephesians 2:10
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works,,,, We are CREATED for good works

Colossians 3:23
23Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. IF we work for the Lord, we will receive our inheritance.

Galatians 6:9
9And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.
We will reap IF we do not give up doing good.

Titus 2:14
14Who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works. Jesus wants us to be zealous to do good works - according to Paul.

1 Timothy 6:17
17They are to do good, to be rich in good works, We are to be rich in good works.

Romans 2:6-8
6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. Again, Paul is saying that we will be judged by our deeds...those who do not obey the truth...wrath and indignation.


There are many more.
The other member is not fighting against Paul.
YOU are.

 

[LoveYeshua]

You're right Love Yeshua.
It's 12 Apostles.
Just like the 12 Tribes.

I added in some detail.
In case some are reading along that just began studying...here's the detail :

Jesus chose 12 Apostles.
Just like the gates you mentioned...
Just like the 12 tribes of Israel.

I'm also going to post a link re the number 12 which is found throughout the bible.

Judas committed suicide and only 11 Apostles remained.
He had to be replaced.
Matthias was chosen.

Acts 1:21-26
21“Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us— 22beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”
23So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias.
24And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen
25to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.”
26And they drew lots for them, and the lot fell to Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles.


So there were still 12 Apostles.
The Apostles,,,by office,,,were 12.

It is said that Paul is an honorary Apostle due to his importance.
I was incorrect in stating that this made 13 Apostles...
one is in name only...

but the OFFICE of Apostle belongs to only 12.

Thanks again LoveYeshua.
You're very precise.
This is good.


Here's the link regarding the number 12.
I'm sure there's more.

Meaning of the Number 12 in the Bible

Why does the number 12 represent a perfect governmental foundation? Who were the twelve patriarchs from Shem to Jacob?

www.biblestudy.org

Thank you for the link about numbers, very interesting,

Blessings

 

[nedsk]

His faith was perfected by works

Abraham had a weak faith in Gen 15. Yet that faith of a mustard seed saved him completely. Not decades later

Your right, I am not arguing with you. Paul; is.. And paul will win..

Oh so faith by itself isnt perfect it needs to be perfected. This isn't helping you much.

 

[nedsk]

Paul said this

Eph 2: 8-9 For by GRACE I HAVE BEEN SAVED ( A completed action) through faith not works

2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN

Titus 3: 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED US ( A completed action. through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

Now maybe you are not saved, and still need to act on Gods grace.. But the rest of us, we have been saved

This does not mean I want to.

Thats where you and I differ.

You not only do not think Jesus can save you completely. You do not believe he has the power to change you.



When God said they were. Here let me help you

eph 1: 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

John 1: 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE

John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already

John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)

I did these things about 50 years ago. When will you do this?

No where does that say you are irrevocably saved. It doesn't matter to me in the least what you did 50 years ago. You were wrong then and you're still wrong.

 

[nedsk]

going off the words, if it is grace it is no longer works. otherwise grace is no longer grace. IE, grace and works can not mix.



basically saying if I lie cheat and steal I can lose salvation.




Basically saying that grace and works again must be completed if we are to be saved. which goes counter to what Paul said.

and finally one more time. It is grace plus works in your view. And again, paul said Works cancel grace out. it is one or the other, but it can not be both..

here just in case you want to deny paul said this

eph 2: 8-9
8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST

Faith, Not works. no works are involved period.. lest we boast of our works and claim we saved ourself

romans 4:
rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)

rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)

Paul adamately rejects any type of work. saying if we work, we earn a debt, not grace.

but he does not leave it here.

Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE. But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK

Grace and works cancel each other out. it is one or the other, It CAN NOT BE BOTH

2 Tim 1: 9
who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN

Again, Grace and works can not mix.. No works of our own was involved in our salvation.

and if you want to say good works do save us. Paul refutes this argument also.. concernign righteous works

Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED US through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE

We are saved by his mercy,, His love, and the washing and new birth of the HS.. based on Grace alone..

Paul also never saves faith alone.

It doesn't counter what James says. I like how you think saying "Paul says .." is the final word. LMBO you people are so lost it's not funny but all I can do is laugh

 

[GodsGrace]

Man's tradition.

Here's what scripture says:

Jer 31:31-34,

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:​

​

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:​

​

33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.​

​

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.​

God said He's make a new covenant with Israel and with Judah. Read the rest of the verses and it's patently obvious we aren't there yet. I've yet to see a lamb and wolf laying down together, nor have I seen a small child playing with a rattlesnake (Isaiah 11).

Now, as Hebrews says, the old covenant is fading, but the new one isn't here yet.

Heb 8:13,

In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that (old covenant) which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.​

The old covenant is ready to vanish. It will actually vanish when Jesus makes his second advent, not as a lamb for slaughter, but as king of kings and lord of lords.


Maybe it did to you, but I trust the above comment clarified things.

Not sure where you're going with that.

Yes. He also knew with whom He'd make it. He made an OC with Israel and He'll make a NC with Israel. He made no covenant with the church of the body of Christ though.

He certainly started the ball rolling to get it to begin fading away, but it hasn't ended just yet. (Heb 8:13, referenced above)

"Everlasting" is the Hebrew word, "olem." It literally means as far as the eye can see. It's more about the future, not that it is something that existed eternally. The NC will begin at some point, but once it begins it will never end.



All the families will be blessed when Jesus makes his second advent and the new covenant if ratified.

You didn't reply to the fact that God told Abraham he would be a blessing to all nations.

Does this mean after the end of the world when we see the New Jerusalem?
Do you believe BLESSINGS will be necessary in the age to come?
Do you think we'll be needing blessings in heaven?

What you're stating here is so out of the realm of Christian theology that I can hardly reply to it.
If you're right - and some think you are - then how do Christians fit into the NC?

Each Covenant makes the previous one better or different.
The NC is the culmination of all the promises God made to Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and David.

God spoke of all nations to §Abraham.
In the Davidic Covenant God promised a King that would rule forever.

It seems to me that Jesus has fulfilled all the OT Covenants.



Let's look at

Hebrews 9:15
15For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

The author is speaking about how the NC is the same in some ways as the OC.....
Does it state "those that WILL BE called"
or
Does it state "those who HAVE BEEN called"?

Jesus entered the Spiritual tabernacle, just as the High Pries entered the Holy of Holies.

The High Priest offered blood before entering.
Jesus offered His blood before entering.
Hebrews 9:7-8

Hebrews 9:9
9which is a symbol for the present time.


Hebrews 9:14
14how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

We are serving the living God right now...not in the future.

 

[GodsGrace]

A slight misrepresentation there. I think I was clear that I couldn't argue with scripture. In other words, I agreed with the guy's post which was simply a few verses.

I'm not sure of what you are accusing me there.

Not important.

You listed a bunch of verses with no comment.
Who can know what you meant by it.....

Just like the other member did.
You agreed that it's scripture....
but no one can know for sure WHY it was posted.

 

[GodsGrace]

Man's tradition.

Here's what scripture says:

Jer 31:31-34,

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:​

​

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:​

​

33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.​

​

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.​

God said He's make a new covenant with Israel and with Judah. Read the rest of the verses and it's patently obvious we aren't there yet. I've yet to see a lamb and wolf laying down together, nor have I seen a small child playing with a rattlesnake (Isaiah 11).

Now, as Hebrews says, the old covenant is fading, but the new one isn't here yet.

Heb 8:13,

In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that (old covenant) which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.​

The old covenant is ready to vanish. It will actually vanish when Jesus makes his second advent, not as a lamb for slaughter, but as king of kings and lord of lords.


Maybe it did to you, but I trust the above comment clarified things.

Not sure where you're going with that.

Yes. He also knew with whom He'd make it. He made an OC with Israel and He'll make a NC with Israel. He made no covenant with the church of the body of Christ though.

He certainly started the ball rolling to get it to begin fading away, but it hasn't ended just yet. (Heb 8:13, referenced above)

"Everlasting" is the Hebrew word, "olem." It literally means as far as the eye can see. It's more about the future, not that it is something that existed eternally. The NC will begin at some point, but once it begins it will never end.



All the families will be blessed when Jesus makes his second advent and the new covenant if ratified.

§Where does it state this?
The NC was ratified when Jesus died.
This is when a Covenant/Testament becomes valid.

The church was a mystery hidden in God until He revealed to Paul. Everything Paul said was meant to define the nature of the Christian church. It is not a covenant at all. Just study the word "mystery" in Paul's epistles.

The mystery Paul spoke of was that the Gentiles were going to become part of God's people.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

EG
Paul taught doing good works:

Not to get saved he did not

Ephesians 2:10
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works,,,, We are CREATED for good works

Colossians 3:23
23Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. IF we work for the Lord, we will receive our inheritance.

Galatians 6:9
9And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.
We will reap IF we do not give up doing good.

Titus 2:14
14Who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works. Jesus wants us to be zealous to do good works - according to Paul.

1 Timothy 6:17
17They are to do good, to be rich in good works, We are to be rich in good works.

Romans 2:6-8
6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. Again, Paul is saying that we will be judged by our deeds...those who do not obey the truth...wrath and indignation.


There are many more.
The other member is not fighting against Paul.
YOU are.

so why are you misquoting paul as teaching a legalistic gospel.

and why do you continue to refuse to answer my verses I have posted over and over. where Paul refutes and teached against works added to grace for salvation?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Gods grace is unmerited favor

I can not earn grace by not lying cheating and steeling.

The lye is if you keep from doing these things, Maybe God will save you..

You can certainly turb your back on his grace by sinning with impunity.

Did you learn NOTHING from the Parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)?
He had everything that was his fathers – yet he turned his back on him. His security was restored ONLY after he repented.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Oh so faith by itself isnt perfect it needs to be perfected. This isn't helping you much.

Jesus said faith of a mustard seed will move a mountain.

When God accepted Abrahams faith and accounted it to him as righteousness. His faith was not yet perfected. But it was enough to save him.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No where does that say you are irrevocably saved. It doesn't matter to me in the least what you did 50 years ago. You were wrong then and you're still wrong.

Well good luck

I just showed you passages that say I have been saved

Jesus also said I will never die. I will never hunger or thirst. i will live forever. and have his own assurance I will never be lost ans be raised on the last day.

So Jesus and Paul both reject your legalism

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Paul also never saves faith alone.

It doesn't counter what James says. I like how you think saying "Paul says .." is the final word. LMBO you people are so lost it's not funny but all I can do is laugh

Dude,

Either refdute the passages I keep giving you. SHow me where I am wrong. Or I will assume what I already know. youi can;t refute them

You want to be stuck on james, feel free

I have James and paul in complte agreement, You do not

And until you can get them in agreement. I can never fall for the trap you have fallen for

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You can certainly turb your back on his grace by sinning with impunity.

Did you learn NOTHING from the Parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)?
He had everything that was his fathers – yet he turned his back on him. His security was restored ONLY after he repented.

same to you

I can not earn sa;lvation by stopping those sins.

in the same token, I can not lose salvation if I fall into those sins.

If I can not earn by doing.. then by practice in that defenition. I can not lose salvation by doing them

because that would mean I must earn my salvation by not doing them

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not to get saved he did not

WRONG.

Paul teaches that there are TWO kinds of works:
1. Works that YOU do for yourself.
These are the works that merit nothing and are are like filthy rags (Isa. 64:6, Eph. 2:9).

2. Works that GOD created for you to do for HIS glory.
These are the works that are an essential element of our faith, which is HOW we attain saving grace (Eph. 2:10, 1 Cor. 13:1-3).

Faith without works is NO faith at all (James 2:14-24).

 

[LoveYeshua]

@GodsGrace @Rich R


Note for clarity and to avoid misunderstandings I speak in this text of the Ten Commandments and not the rest of the law of Moses.

The New Covenant was promised long ago by the prophet Jeremiah: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people” (Jeremiah 31:31–33).

This law is the same covenant given at Sinai—the Ten Commandments (Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13; Deuteronomy 10:4). God never changed His law; He changed where it is written. Under the Old Covenant, the commandments were engraved on stone and kept outside the heart. Under the New Covenant, God writes them on the mind and heart by His Spirit so that obedience flows from love, not compulsion.

Jesus Himself confirmed that the Ten Commandments remain. He said, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:17–19). Later, when asked how to have eternal life, He answered plainly: “If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17). He even listed them, showing that He meant the Ten Commandments. Jesus did not replace these laws; He magnified them and wrote them deeper in the heart.

The New Covenant was sealed when Jesus said at the Last Supper: “For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins” (Matthew 26:28). A covenant is confirmed by blood, and at the cross, Jesus ratified it with His own. His resurrection gave it power, but its application required the Holy Spirit.

This is why Pentecost was so important. The word “Pentecost” means “fiftieth” and was the Feast of Weeks, celebrated fifty days after Passover (Leviticus 23:15–16). It marked two things: the firstfruits of the harvest and, by Jewish tradition, the giving of the Law at Sinai. On this day, Israel remembered when God wrote His law on stone. God chose this very day for the Spirit to come, because now the law would be written on hearts, fulfilling the promise of Jeremiah and Ezekiel: “I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes” (Ezekiel 36:27). At Pentecost, this began. The Spirit came with power, transforming fearful disciples into bold witnesses. The feast of firstfruits became the day of the first spiritual harvest, when about three thousand souls were added to the kingdom (Acts 2:41). The New Covenant was sealed at the cross, but at Pentecost it was applied to the hearts of God’s people by the Spirit.

Yet the New Covenant is not yet in its full glory. Today it grows in the hearts of believers, but its perfect fulfillment will come when God’s kingdom fills the earth and His will is done everywhere as in heaven. In that day, righteousness will cover the earth, and all will know the Lord, as Isaiah said: “They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea” (Isaiah 11:9). That is the final application: every heart loyal to God, His law written within, and His people living in everlasting peace.

Jesus described this growth in the parable of the mustard seed: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field, which indeed is the least of all the seeds; but when it is grown it is greater than the herbs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches” (Matthew 13:31–32). The covenant began like a small seed—sealed by Christ’s blood, planted in a few disciples—but at Pentecost it sprouted, and it will grow until it becomes a great tree filling the earth when Christ reigns fully.

The New Covenant began at the cross, was empowered at Pentecost, grows now through the Spirit, and will reach its perfect fulfillment when the kingdom of God is complete and all things are made new.

Blessings