His death has everything to do with how we face death. We cannot face death at all but for His having done so for us. Indeed, it is in flight from death that man has embraced such profound delusion as to insist that the God of all creation lacks in any capacity at all.
You ever here this question from non-believers? Why did God kill in the OT and say Love others in the NT ?
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His death has everything to do with how we face death. We cannot face death at all but for His having done so for us. Indeed, it is in flight from death that man has embraced such profound delusion as to insist that the God of all creation lacks in any capacity at all.
I saw that I misunderstood you and attempted to delete the post, thank you for clarifying.
Without faith Jesus's death is meaningless. The post I replied to was implying that all people can face death because of Jesus death. That is not correct.
I apologize, the misconstrual was mine. All people face the will of God alone.
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
But Jesus did, so... In a sense, yes, but in another, no. Are you so certain there is a correct answer for you to hold here?
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
Not my responsibility.
God is all. In all and all is both of and from God.
When Jesus commended his spirit back to the father,being Jesus was the father, he was returning to the power and his authority as creator, God.
Jesus,the word,God,made flesh, could not die a humans death because he was of God in his entire being. Flesh,bone,muscle,etc....
He couldn't enter death,cease to exist, in the way our lives end. Because he was the source of living.
And what appeared to those witnessing his crucifixion was eternal life laying down the vessel of God's creation so to take it up again three days later.
A human body dead and in repose in a stone chamber in the climate of the Middle East will begin to decay.
Think of the stench that arose when Jesus rolled back the stone in the tomb of Lazarus.
The first parable example of salvation from the second death through Jesus.
With Jesus resurrection there was no stench. No decay. When Mary came to anoint his body three days after he was laid in the tomb,Jesus was gone.
He was in his glorified body now.
The glorified body is what reiterates God cannot be killed .
Even the appearance of death is the creation of God. He cannot kill himself.
This is life as we know it.
It is not what encompasses the creator of it all.
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Oh, but it is. All will be held to account for every word spoken in opposition to His Majesty, except for those not under the condemnation of death.
You confess with your own words:
And then immediately proceed to DECLARE WHAT HE CANNOT DO.
You attempt to explain HIS MYSTERIES and HIS GLORY.
You do not understand the meaning of your own words. I have Certainty in mine because I have His life in me.
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
English is not your first language.
You don't understand anything I wrote. Nor have you studied the Bible.
That too is not my responsibility.
And you shall answer also for every word.
You can't correct me when you don't know scripture.
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
Your arrogance is reiterating my point.
Stop with the sarcasm and study the Bible. It can only help you.
Goodbye.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
“Is the OT God portrayed as a mean tyrant who then becomes kind and merciful in the Christian Era?”
What is the Bible’s narrative from Genesis to Revelation?
In a nutshell, it tells of our creation....how the human race was placed in a beautiful paradise home and were told to “fill the earth” with their children.....it then tells us how the human race was hijacked and held to ransom by a rebel spirit intent on stealing the humans for his own selfish purposes....how God chose one nation to represent him to the world and how dismally they let him down......yet he demonstrated his wisdom by allowing their bad behaviour to serve as a warning example to us in the future.....despite their sorry spiritual state, God arranged for his Messiah to be born and raised in that environment......and to offer God’s truth to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (lost because of bad shepherding)....Messiah taught God’s truth and started a groundswell of reestablished truth.....then he offered his life as a ransom, and the ransom was paid in his suffering and death....and what God’s kingdom (his heavenly governmental arrangement, with Jesus as its designated king) will do to bring the redeemed human race back into reconciliation with God, and reestablish his first purpose for this earth, and the human race upon it. (Rev 21:2-4)
God’s activities in the OT were about establishing the Sovereign right of the Creator to dictate the terms for human living...which at times required his direct intervention to establish and defend his Sovereignty and to demonstrate his power to his own people, as well as people of the nations.
It was a time of war and bloodshed, as nations tried to take their God-given land away from his people....so his nation were not to be painted as cowardly wimps. Israel gained its reputation by relying on its God to fight for them, even when they were hopelessly outnumbered. He protected his people, either directly or indirectly through their various controlling empires, after their exile in Babylon ended. By God’s permission, foreigners had conquered the land that God had originally gifted to them, but which land was now unacceptable to him because of the bloodshed and Israel’s disobedience. God demonstrated that only war sanctioned by himself was permitted as Israel acted as his executional forces. Any battle fought without God’s sanction ended in defeat.
By the time of Jesus’ arrival as Messiah, the Jews had lost the plot spiritually speaking, and were offering to God a sham religion, based on the traditions of men rather than on the sincere application of God’s word. (Matt 15:7-9)
Jesus was sent to collect a specific group who would join him in heaven as part of God’s Kingdom arrangement...they being “kings and priests” under Jesus command, to bring redeemed humanity back to God. (Rev 20:6) It was no longer a time for war because the Jews had lost their land and also God’s favour and protection. Under Roman domination they no longer even had a military force. There was no one to fight and no land to protect.
The two eras served a purpose and we can learn a lot from their history about what pleases God and what displeases him. We learn about the blessings of obedience to God, and the withdrawal of God’s favour when his people disobeyed him. Their punishments were often very severe. He means what he says. We cannot dictate our own terms for worship, but the majority of denominations do.
When Christ comes to judge the world, “few” will be found “doing the will of God” even though they believe they are. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23) In a world ruled by the master deceiver....nothing is as it appears.
That to me explains exactly why we see two different eras with two expressions of the same God without it being contradictory.
What is the Bible’s narrative from Genesis to Revelation?
In a nutshell, it tells of our creation....how the human race was placed in a beautiful paradise home and were told to “fill the earth” with their children.....it then tells us how the human race was hijacked and held to ransom by a rebel spirit intent on stealing the humans for his own selfish purposes....how God chose one nation to represent him to the world and how dismally they let him down......yet he demonstrated his wisdom by allowing their bad behaviour to serve as a warning example to us in the future.....despite their sorry spiritual state, God arranged for his Messiah to be born and raised in that environment......and to offer God’s truth to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (lost because of bad shepherding)....Messiah taught God’s truth and started a groundswell of reestablished truth.....then he offered his life as a ransom, and the ransom was paid in his suffering and death....and what God’s kingdom (his heavenly governmental arrangement, with Jesus as its designated king) will do to bring the redeemed human race back into reconciliation with God, and reestablish his first purpose for this earth, and the human race upon it. (Rev 21:2-4)
God’s activities in the OT were about establishing the Sovereign right of the Creator to dictate the terms for human living...which at times required his direct intervention to establish and defend his Sovereignty and to demonstrate his power to his own people, as well as people of the nations.
It was a time of war and bloodshed, as nations tried to take their God-given land away from his people....so his nation were not to be painted as cowardly wimps. Israel gained its reputation by relying on its God to fight for them, even when they were hopelessly outnumbered. He protected his people, either directly or indirectly through their various controlling empires, after their exile in Babylon ended. By God’s permission, foreigners had conquered the land that God had originally gifted to them, but which land was now unacceptable to him because of the bloodshed and Israel’s disobedience. God demonstrated that only war sanctioned by himself was permitted as Israel acted as his executional forces. Any battle fought without God’s sanction ended in defeat.
By the time of Jesus’ arrival as Messiah, the Jews had lost the plot spiritually speaking, and were offering to God a sham religion, based on the traditions of men rather than on the sincere application of God’s word. (Matt 15:7-9)
Jesus was sent to collect a specific group who would join him in heaven as part of God’s Kingdom arrangement...they being “kings and priests” under Jesus command, to bring redeemed humanity back to God. (Rev 20:6) It was no longer a time for war because the Jews had lost their land and also God’s favour and protection. Under Roman domination they no longer even had a military force. There was no one to fight and no land to protect.
The two eras served a purpose and we can learn a lot from their history about what pleases God and what displeases him. We learn about the blessings of obedience to God, and the withdrawal of God’s favour when his people disobeyed him. Their punishments were often very severe. He means what he says. We cannot dictate our own terms for worship, but the majority of denominations do.
When Christ comes to judge the world, “few” will be found “doing the will of God” even though they believe they are. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23) In a world ruled by the master deceiver....nothing is as it appears.
That to me explains exactly why we see two different eras with two expressions of the same God without it being contradictory.
Fact is that the OT was not under Grace ! that's why ! the opening of this thread is about.
Now as for the Seed ? well one who sows bad seed reaps just that !
For God was looking for that of the Good seed, that's why he picked the Hebrews to become Gods people.
Then we can see in that Jacobs real Son of his real wife was dealt with by bad seed of the others.
It's not that the bad seed had to be killed, but the reason why they are not worthy of the God of Israel in fact ! for their Idols do not sit well with God ! for such is an abomination to God !
This is why Jesus said to Nathaniel, that he was a true Israelite. for he was worthy of God !
Other gods are good for nothing at all in fact ! for they are clearly a curse.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
You ever here this question from non-believers? Why did God kill in the OT and say Love others in the NT ?
It seems that even believers on this forum have a hard time answering this question and have differing answers.Here's another different one.
The wages of sin is death.
This is God's judgment.
He is sovereign.
He creates life and takes it away. It is His prerogative when that life is judged and taken.
We are to love others ... even enemies. We are told to turn the cheek, take an insult, a hit, an assault. But that doesn't mean over and over again. It is in our right to defend ourselves. If someone threatens our lives or the lives of our families, we don't stand there and keep turning the cheek until we are dead. If we cannot reason with them (which is initially an act of love, peace and mercy towards them... if there is time) and/or restrain them from killing us, killing them may be our only way to go - in self defense.
God still ordains wars.
It is interesting that people do not know the meaning of "Thou shalt not kill". The word kill is correctly interpreted as "murder". Murder is a selfish act. All killing is not murder and so God does not murder people, He righteously kills them or allows them to be killed, by whomever ... even Satan.That may sound harsh, but He blots people out of the Book of Life every second of every minute. 173,000 people die everyday on earth.
Governments are formed for the purpose of protecting our lives and property from evil doers. So it is ordained and legal to kill sometimes. With capital punishment, self defense or in times of war, killing is allowed.
No one slips through God's judgment or mercy. No one on His list of elect is lost. Reprobates ( unredeemable -- whom only God knows) can be cut off at any time according to His purpose. We don't know who made it to heaven or who went the other way.
Fetuses aborted are tragic ... 63 million so far in US since Roe vs. Wade. And many have illegally been aborted before that. Are they all in heaven? I don't know. 100,000 deaths/ year alone from fentinol in USA. Wow, that is more than occurred in some wars we fought for years.
We all die! And for believers, that is not a bad thing, we go to heaven. And up there they are immediately thanking the Lord for taking them out-of this dark world.
"It is appointed unto man once to die and after this the judgment". Heb.9:27
"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son". John 3:18
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Romans 1:18-25
Apparently, the reprobates are the ones whom God gave up on, He let them go to their demise. Up to a certain point, He may have loved them, gave them opportunities to repent, but then His judgment came in a wrathful way sometimes. He in essence says, okay have it your way and let them go, because He knows they will not come to Him though He draws all men to Himself.
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Taken
Well-Known Member
You ever here this question from non-believers? Why did God kill in the OT and say Love others in the NT ?
Sure.
* Always a “Why” question…follows after a point of knowledge revealed.
* Always a “Why” question…is to hopefully satisfy “understanding”…the point of knowledge revealed.
God “gives” His Understanding To Whom He pleases.
LOVE- has nothing to do with Life or Death.
God LOVES - all of His creations.
In the OT, particular men:
* freely “chose” to Believe IN God.
* freely “agreed by their word” To obey God.
** In Turn, God called, THEM”, “His People”.
** In Turn, God Favored, Protected, “His People”.
* People having Not chosen to BE included: were “excluded from being; Gods people”.
** Excluded people, were historically, often “attacking, enslaving, killing, Gods People”.
Love IS doing what is Right/ Righteousness for another, regardless of the consequences.
Gods Favoritism was Greater For “His People”, which invoked, a consequence of Death, unto People, NOT in Gods Favor, FOR the benefit of protection OF “Gods People”…
The WHY?
Because of The Works God Had Conditionally set forth FOR “His People to Do / Accomplish”…was of “Far greater importance for All of manKind”, than the lives of those, NOT included with “Gods People”.
Glory to God,
Taken
Sure.
* Always a “Why” question…follows after a point of knowledge revealed.
* Always a “Why” question…is to hopefully satisfy “understanding”…the point of knowledge revealed.
God “gives” His Understanding To Whom He pleases.
LOVE- has nothing to do with Life or Death.
God LOVES - all of His creations.
In the OT, particular men:
* freely “chose” to Believe IN God.
* freely “agreed by their word” To obey God.
** In Turn, God called, THEM”, “His People”.
** In Turn, God Favored, Protected, “His People”.
* People having Not chosen to BE included: were “excluded from being; Gods people”.
** Excluded people, were historically, often “attacking, enslaving, killing, Gods People”.
Love IS doing what is Right/ Righteousness for another, regardless of the consequences.
Gods Favoritism was Greater For “His People”, which invoked, a consequence of Death, unto People, NOT in Gods Favor, FOR the benefit of protection OF “Gods People”…
The WHY?
Because of The Works God Had Conditionally set forth FOR “His People to Do / Accomplish”…was of “Far greater importance for All of manKind”, than the lives of those, NOT included with “Gods People”.
Glory to God,
Taken
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