Is it possible to lose salvation?

[GodsGrace]

True. I may have been exaggerating!

I think so!

 

[GodsGrace]

Subject Heading:- 'Is It Possible To Lose Salvation'.

'But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus,
Who of God is made unto us
wisdom, and righteousness,
and sanctification, and redemption:
That, according as it is written,
He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.'
(1Cor. 1:30-31)

Salvation is of God in Christ Jesus, therefore cannot be lost. For we are His workmanship.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hey Complete
I'm replying to your post because, as you may know by now, I really believe that teaching OSAS is a very dangerous
teaching.

No one in the NT taught that once a person becomes a believer, he will AUTOMATICALLY be a believer forever.

If one CONTINUES to believe,,,,to the end,,,,then he WILL be saved.

Also, it's important to know what BELIEVE means in order to understand all scripture in the NT.


Paul said.

Colossians 1:22-23
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard,


Jesus said:

John 8:31
31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;

 

[Rich R]

I think so!

Nonetheless, I think Jesus was pointing out the insidious nature of sin.

 

[nedsk]

Yeah..I can't read each and every post.
I've found that the other member has a good grasp of biblical knowledge.
Regarding James...I do believe that I agree with you.
Some do not read plainly what James is saying and put their own twist into it.
This should not be done.
What I like to say is that we are saved by faith ....
but if we want to stay saved, we'd better obey God so faith alone does not work and is not taught in the NT.

Unfortunately FAITH ALONE has taken on a meaning that means that all one has to have is faith WITH NOTHING ELSE, and he will be saved.
No one taught this...Not Jesus and not Paul.

I get discouraged at time....but we must continue to post what the NT teaches.
If others have a different view...then they must support that view with scripture -
so far, I've never seen any support in 10 years of posting.

Interesting concept.
I fully agree.

Some reform has taken place within the CC.
They're still offering indulgences although they're not being sold.
Still too much on Mary which leads some to worship her instead of venerate her...which is what the CC teaches.
It won't CORRECT what some do.
Won't get into too much detail.


Correct.
100% agreed.
They also taught baptismal regeneration...
or, at least, that one must be baptized.


Correct...this caused a problem but we won't get into it here.

I know.
I'll just say that no church is perfect...

The other member may have a good grasp but you can't just out of hand dismiss what is clearly written and then claim to have the truth.

My only point with faith and works is faith must by necessity include works. Works don't save faith does but faith must include works.

Indulgences are perfectly fine. As to Mary you are correct we are to venerate her not worship her.

Well people may not like infant baptism but that's irrelevant. It's what the church taught in its earliest days and is STILL practiced by the church today.

Hang on the church Jesus founded on the rock of Peter is perfect, the people in it maybe it be. But if we truly take Jesus at his word that he would send the holy Spirit to guide that church into the truth and the netherworld shall not prevail against it then even if things happen that we don't like or agree with we are called to have faith. Just like when Jesus said that his flesh and blood are real good and real drink and if you don't have it you don't have life within you, lots of people couldn't handle it and left. Do we have faith or not?

 

[GodsGrace]

Nonetheless, I think Jesus was pointing our the insidious nature of sin.

Yes sir.
Jesus certainly knew our nature.
And how the heart must change....

 

[GodsGrace]

The other member may have a good grasp but you can't just out of hand dismiss what is clearly written and then claim to have the truth.

Right.
But we all believe we have the truth!
But let's not discuss other members.

My only point with faith and works is faith must by necessity include works. Works don't save faith does but faith must include works.

Agreed 100%

Indulgences are perfectly fine. As to Mary you are correct we are to venerate her not worship her.

Indulgences are not fine nedsk.
I also have a problem with confession and I'll tell you why.
Many sin thinking that they'll then go to confession.
This belief does not change the heart for MOST Catholics.
How about this: §A priest does not forgive a woman because we're in a small town and he knows stuff.
So she comes out of the confessional and states that she'll just go to a different priest !
It just removes the whole idea of serving God from the heart.
And indulgences...WHO gave the church the authority re indulgences?
I'm pretty sure you know that the income was used to build churches...can't remember when.
Maybe St. Peter's? I'd have to check and it really doesn't interest me.
My friend is going through a nine-week Novena right now.
She's a believer so no problem...
but what about the ones that live a rather sinful life and then think a Novena will save them?
Let's not delve too deep into this....

Well people may not like infant baptism but that's irrelevant. It's what the church taught in its earliest days and is STILL practiced by the church today.

Infants were always baptized in the CC from the earliest days...
but as a blessing since the parents were intent on raising the baby as a Christian.
Augustine changed the reason for the baptizing in the 5th century.
I do NOT agree with this change.
Now....the church does consider, every now and then, changing baptizing for adults,,,
but too much push-back from the laity so it won't happen any time soon...
which is rather interesting because most that have their child baptized never even show up for Mass.

Hang on the church Jesus founded on the rock of Peter is perfect, the people in it maybe it be.

Correct.

But if we truly take Jesus at his word that he would send the holy Spirit to guide that church into the truth and the netherworld shall not prevail against it then even if things happen that we don't like or agree with we are called to have faith. Just like when Jesus said that his flesh and blood are real good and real drink and if you don't have it you don't have life within you, lots of people couldn't handle it and left. Do we have faith or not?

I agree. I hope it can recover from Francis...he caused big problems.
Some priests were pretty upset.
Let's end it here.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If faith alone was sufficient and salvation cannot be lost then I should be able to lie, cheat and steal. That's a logical fact, unless you're suggesting works play a role in our salvation and without them our faith is dead? The fact is this osas drivel you people espouse is nonsense.

That is human logic which has no part here.

Salvation is not just a belief, but a transformation of the person from death to life. Stop thinking like a man and learn the Word of God of what happens when one gets saved both positionally and experientially.

 

[nedsk]

Right.
But we all believe we have the truth!
But let's not discuss other members.


Agreed 100%

Indulgences are not fine nedsk.
I also have a problem with confession and I'll tell you why.
Many sin thinking that they'll then go to confession.
This belief does not change the heart for MOST Catholics.
How about this: §A priest does not forgive a woman because we're in a small town and he knows stuff.
So she comes out of the confessional and states that she'll just go to a different priest !
It just removes the whole idea of serving God from the heart.
And indulgences...WHO gave the church the authority re indulgences?
I'm pretty sure you know that the income was used to build churches...can't remember when.
Maybe St. Peter's? I'd have to check and it really doesn't interest me.
My friend is going through a nine-week Novena right now.
She's a believer so no problem...
but what about the ones that live a rather sinful life and then think a Novena will save them?
Let's not delve too deep into this....

Infants were always baptized in the CC from the earliest days...
but as a blessing since the parents were intent on raising the baby as a Christian.
Augustine changed the reason for the baptizing in the 5th century.
I do NOT agree with this change.
Now....the church does consider, every now and then, changing baptizing for adults,,,
but too much push-back from the laity so it won't happen any time soon...
which is rather interesting because most that have their child baptized never even show up for Mass.


Correct.

I agree. I hope it can recover from Francis...he caused big problems.
Some priests were pretty upset.
Let's end it here.

I'm not discussing another member im discussing the misuse of scripture.

Of course they are.
Again you confuse how people use the sacraments with whether or not they are valid. You really need to do some separation there. Jesus clearly gave the apsotles the authority to bind and loose sin. How people abuse it is not relevant to its validity but again people throw the baby out with the bath water.

Francis did what God intended him to do. Again many things happen with God that we don't like. So what? It's not relevant. Jesus said he would build HIS church on the rock of Peter and only one church can even begin to show a direct line of succession to Peter. We can DEFINITELY end it here.

 

[nedsk]

That is human logic which has no part here.

Salvation is not just a belief, but a transformation of the person from death to life. Stop thinking like a man and learn the Word of God of what happens when one gets saved both positionally and experientially.

LMBO the word of God says, "You see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." God gave me a functioning brain and the ability to read with comprehension and I doubt he expects me to disengage it but I have to surrender it to his word. The words are very clear.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

LMBO the word of God says, "You see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." God gave me a functioning brain and the ability to read with comprehension and I doubt he expects me to disengage it but I have to surrender it to his word. The words are very clear.

Well that same word also says this:

Romans 4

King James Version

​

4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Based on how you are exegeting that verse, you would have to say that wither James or Paul is lying!

 

[nedsk]

Well that same word also says this:

Romans 4​

​

King James Version​

​

​

4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Based on how you are exegeting that verse, you would have to say that wither James or Paul is lying!

The dilemma is yours not mine. James doesn't say a man is justified by works. You really need to learn to read with comprehension. Try reading what james wrote again but instead of thinking like a robot use the brain God gave you and see if you can decipher what James actually said. If you need help let me know. I'll be right here.

 

[complete]

Hey Complete
I'm replying to your post because, as you may know by now, I really believe that teaching OSAS is a very dangerous
teaching.

No one in the NT taught that once a person becomes a believer, he will AUTOMATICALLY be a believer forever.

If one CONTINUES to believe,,,,to the end,,,,then he WILL be saved.

Also, it's important to know what BELIEVE means in order to understand all scripture in the NT.


Paul said.

Colossians 1:22-23
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard,


Jesus said:

John 8:31
31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;

Hello @GodsGrace,

Someone who has been truly born from above, is 'in' Christ, God Himself has placed Him there (1 Cor. 1:30-31) and is walking in newness of life before the Father, in spirit.

The question of the thread is, 'Is it possible to lose salvation? I believe that if God has begun a work in the believer, then He will continue to do so until the day of Christ, for He is faithful that promised.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[nedsk]

Hello @GodsGrace,

Someone who has been truly born from above, is 'in' Christ, God Himself has placed Him there (1 Cor. 1:30-31) and is walking in newness of life before the Father, in spirit.

The question of the thread is, 'Is it possible to lose salvation? I believe that if God has begun a work in the believer, then He will continue to do so until the day of Christ, for He is faithful that promised.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Then why would a believer need to work of their salvation with fear and trembling as Paul stated? Do you also believe free will is stripped from us when someone is truly born from above?

 

[Marvelloustime]

The RCC and tons of protestants have led this people astray .
Bible time .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

you keep attacking the sola scripta .
TELL me my freind have you ever heard me teach any of these stange and odd teachings .
YET I SIMPLY READ THE BIBLE for myself . the problem is NOT in reading the bible for oneself .
The problem is THE WHY they do as they do . THOSE whose love is for the flesh
cannot discern TRUTH and at best can discern only truths BUT NOT THE TRUTH .
Now we cannot heed men who made it seem like one cannot learn that bible for themselves .
You dont see me runing around preaching two gospels
or prospirity gospel or any other thing like that .
GOD put THE LOVE for TRUTH UPON MY HEART and INTO ONE BOOK HE PUT ME TO LEARN .
we must not heed the voices of men who try and behave like a man simply cannot learn lest some wise leader guide him .
THAT Was all about power and control . and sure they did speak some truths
but USED THEM TRUTHS to then promote A LIE .

@amigo de christo

 

[Behold]

Then why would a believer need to work of their salvation with fear and trembling as Paul stated?

Reader,

Think of the verse like this, and you'll see the correct understanding.

"work our your salvation, in AWE nad WONDER".

See that?....that is the correct understanding of "fear and trembling" in that verse.

Now How do you "work out your salvation">?

A.) Once you receive it from God, by faith, as "The Gift of Salvation".....you now learn how to exist WITHIN it, according to revelation knowledge that you gain, by studying the bible, = studying Paul's Doctrine.
See, its the Apostle Paul who teaches "Salvation" as "The Gift of Salvation" that is the "imputed righteousness of Christ".

 

[nedsk]

Reader,

Think of the verse like this, and you'll see the correct understanding.

"work our your salvation, in AWE nad WONDER".

See that?....that is the correct understanding of "fear and trembling" in that verse.

Now How do you "work out your salvation">?

A.) Once you receive it from God, by faith, as "The Gift of Salvation".....you now learn how to exist WITHIN it, according to revelation knowledge that you gain, by studying the bible, = studying Paul's Doctrine.
See, its the Apostle Paul who teaches "Salvation" as "The Gift of Salvation" that is the "imputed righteousness of Christ".

But it doesn't say awe and wonder. why do I need to think about it differently? To agree with you? Your presumption, which is quite unseemly, is that you posses the incorrect understanding. Nothing supports that other than you saying so.

 

[Behold]

But it doesn't say awe and wonder why do I need to think about it differently? To agree with you?

Notice, there are many Bible translations of this verse.
You chose only one.
So, im showing you how to understand the verse in the correct context.

See, the verse is talking about an eternal and Beautiful Gift from God.......who is Loving....and its all about God's GRACE and Mercy.

God's Grace and Mercy that is SALVATION.... is not to have you "fearing and trembling" under your bed in a cold sweat when trying to understand the beautiful gift of His Love that is Jesus dying for you.

(fear and trembing) = "Awe and Wonder".

 

[nedsk]

Notice, there are many Bible translations of this verse.
You chose only one.
So, im showing you how to understand the verse in the correct context.

See, the verse is talking about an eternal and Beautiful Gift from God.......who is Loving....and its all about God's GRACE and Mercy.

God's Grace and Mercy that is SALVATION.... is not to have you "fearing and trembling" under your bed in a cold sweat when trying to understand the beautiful gift of His Love that is Jesus dying for you.

(fear and trembing) = "Awe and Wonder".

No you're showing me your understanding of that passage just like I am with you. For some reason you seem unable to grasp the concept that you haven't proven you have THE or even a definitive understanding of any scripture. I have no reason whatsoever to defer to your understanding and you've given me no reason to do so.

Ive never been under the bed in a cold sweat at the words fear and trembling but clearly you have and think you have found a more "pleasant" interpretation to ease your fear. I recognize the importance and love associated with the gift, so I don't take it for granted. I don't presume it cant lost just like I don't presume that faith alone saves me which is what Scripture actually says.

 

[Behold]

No you're showing me your understanding of that passage just like I am with you. For some reason you seem unable to grasp the concept that you haven't proven

Go ahead and quote a part of what ive taught you, and show the members here how its 'not correct".
You could not do this if you had 100 more lifetimes. @nedsk
You cant even explain Salvation , unless you corrupt it with water baptism, and try to reduce it to human works, which actually denies The Cross., Mr Mary Cult.
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