Free Will is the Veil
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Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Imagine the worst possible understanding of Christ's nature, and then consider the consequences of holding such a belief.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Nothing at all now that I know how and why this happened:
1 Corinthians 15:57 "But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."
Review our conversation and look back at what we discussed and find that truth about the Lord, his nature and the cross.
Correct me please, brother. You do not make sense to me. If you have greater light, I would seek it, but at present I see no foothold in your direction.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
The cross was not very high, scarcely twice the height of an ordinary man. Strong nails were driven through the hands and feet. The victim usually lived about twelve hours, sometimes much longer. The agonies endured by the crucified have been thus summarized: “The fever
which soon set in produced a burning thirst. The increasing inflammation of the wounds in the back, hands, and feet; the congestion of the blood in the head, lungs, and heart; the swelling of every vein, an indescribable oppression, racking pains in the head; the stiffness of the limbs, caused by the unnatural position of the body; - these all united to make the punishment, in the language of Cicero (‘In Verr.,’ v.64), crudelissimum teterrimumque supplicium.
From the beginning Jesus had foreseen that such would be the end of his life.
It was at this point that he prayed and “made intercession for the transgressors” Lk 23v34, Isa 53v12.
Leaving us an example 1 Pet 2:21-23, Matt 5:44.
Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death (sin!) for everyone.
which soon set in produced a burning thirst. The increasing inflammation of the wounds in the back, hands, and feet; the congestion of the blood in the head, lungs, and heart; the swelling of every vein, an indescribable oppression, racking pains in the head; the stiffness of the limbs, caused by the unnatural position of the body; - these all united to make the punishment, in the language of Cicero (‘In Verr.,’ v.64), crudelissimum teterrimumque supplicium.
From the beginning Jesus had foreseen that such would be the end of his life.
It was at this point that he prayed and “made intercession for the transgressors” Lk 23v34, Isa 53v12.
Leaving us an example 1 Pet 2:21-23, Matt 5:44.
Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death (sin!) for everyone.
Brother, be clear! You describe His torment for what purpose?
What do you wish to say of me and why do you fail to say it clearly?
What is your contention that we may discuss it and cease this fruitless dance?
I practice clarity with words for the express purpose of conveying truth in a manner that can be understood by anyone willing to learn the words I use and the meanings they contain, as my language is the result of training in the Spirit by dependence on His Word.
If you wish to speak down to me, to tell me what I do not know that I should, then do so!
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
There are certain things that are prohibited in this forum, feel free to PM me anytime!
If what you would say is prohibited by the rules of good conduct, then perhaps it is not necessary to be said.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
As I mentioned, there is a truth within our conversation that is so offensive to many, they would be unable to accept it. But it's a truth which sets free all those in bondage.
Read it carefully!
Hebrews 2:14-17 (ESV) 14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. 16 For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. 17 Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
I am in no bondage but the welcome embrace of the Lord. I bear no offense but His truth and I see no offense therein from which I would shy away from expressing. I declare His principles boldly, fearlessly, without concern for repercussions because He is with me.
Your manner of implication is detestable to me. I appreciate you and aspects of you, but your gnostic style dangling of "unspeakable truths" is ridiculous to me and I have little tolerance for it.
If you cannot state clearly your position, it is because you do not know it. I know mine and this is why I live boldly.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
I understand your frustration, but I value my participation in this forum. There are certain topics that are off-limits, and I'd rather respect those boundaries than risk being removed. As I said PM me anytime!
You do not bear His Certainty. If what you would discuss would risk your ostracization, then there must be no truth in it, as this place welcomes His truth, which is why I am here. If you cannot teach me in the open, I would not have you teach me in secret. And if I cannot teach you at all, then why do we communicate? Seek elsewhere your proselyte.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Why would I imagine the worst? No! I only imagine the best, because He is the Best. Your mind runs astray and you would have mine too but you cannot. I yearn for the consequences of my actions, I am thrilled for what is in store for me, I am elated for what my future holds, I am ecstatic for His promises. You do not know me.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
1 Corinthians 1:23 (ESV) "But we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles.
To those who "know" him he is “Marvellous in our eyes” Grk: “to wondered at” not because he is deity but...
Many do not see!
There is nothing to see of what you present. You seek to uplift some mystery as unobtainable truth, but it is freely available to all. The only veil is the one still over your face, that of the lies which restrict access to pure Truth. You seek Him, but you do not have Him because you would seek to possess Him as your own, rather than the proper method He intends by which He possesses us and we are His own.
If you preached Christ crucified, you would not contend with me as you do. You would speak boldly, clearly, and fearlessly, as a child of God does. Only the shameful obscure their meaning while the righteous seek the utmost clarity in all things.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
True, "Let the wise hear and increase in learning, and the one who understands obtain guidance"
This has been a truly valuable conversation, far better than before. May God guide you and open your heart to the reconciliation found through the death, resurrection, and exaltation of Christ.
Hebrews 9:12 (ESV) "Jesus entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption."
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
the curtain was the barrier. Man was on one side. God was on the other. If we tried to enter that barrier without being cleansed we would perish.
When God went the curtain in two. it showed the barrier was broken. Man could enter the presence of God now. However. he still had to be cleansed.
This is what Christ did in the flesh.
John said it best.
As moses lifted the serpent in the wilderness. so to must the son of man be lifted up THAT WHOSOEVER believes in him, will never perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world. he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him, will never perish but has eternal life. For God did not Send his son into the world to judge the world. But that the world MIGHT be saved. He who believes is not condemned, who who does not believe (not obey) is condemned already, because he does not believe.
Free will is essential. Just like the Israelites had to chose freely to look at the serpent and live. or chose to not look in unbelief and die, we must chose to believe (have faith ) and look to the cross and live. or continue in unbelief and not look, and continue to die.
Doubt was agonizing to me, the abhorrent stench of pustulent decay in my mind, the presence of death. The greatest mystery to me today is why anyone is content to tolerate this when the offer of complete and eternal freedom from this curse is available to us.
But I do understand distraction, pride, madness, pain, suffering, trauma, violation, bleeding, risk, fear, heartache, loss, grief, mourning, tragedy, and much of the Master's design for His creation and how and why He desires for it to be this way. This is the gift He gave me for pursuing Him and trusting Him no matter what.
And I will see greater things than this, but few will understand in time to change course themselves. But the Master is gracious and always makes known His plans before they take place. It is the opportunity to trust His voice or disregard. At the end and beyond, all will know His voice.
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