Is it possible to lose salvation?

[GodsGrace]

Hello @GodsGrace,

* The believer, by God's reckoning, has died with Christ, and is now walking before God in newness of life, in the spirit.

* With respect, you fail to acknowledge the power of God in this regard.

So you believe that once born again you will lose your free will?
You believe that God will save you even IF you do NOT desire to be saved?

'Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes,
that they may also obtain the salvation
which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
It is a faithful saying:
For if we be dead with Him, we shall also live with Him:
If we suffer, we shall also reign with Him:
if we deny Him, He also will deny us:
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful:
He cannot deny himself.
(2Ti 2:10-13)

* The believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, by God's reckoning, has died with Christ: and if we be dead with Him we shall also live with Him. That is assured. What can be lost is not our salvation, or the gift of God which is eternal life, but the honour of reigning with Him; it is a loss of reward, not of life in Christ Jesus. For that is secure, it will not be denied us. Praise God!

2 _Timothy 2:12 states that GOD WILL DENY a person...
IF that person denies God.

Right.
There will be no reigning with God for those that DENY Him.

'I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit He taketh away:
and every branch that beareth fruit, He purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Abide in Me, and I in you.
As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine;
no more can ye, except ye abide in M
(Joh 15:1-4)

* This is related to fruit bearing, not to salvation. Pruning, not extinction.

I think you're not reading scripture properly.
Please read the following again:

John 15:2
2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit He taketh away:

Jesus is teaching that those who are IN HIM
IOW,,,saved persons...
that DO NOT bear fruit...God will take them away,,,cut them off,,,sever them.

Pruning is about those that DO bear fruit...
THEY are PRUNED so that they produce even MORE fruit.

And Jesus was not too interested in farming fruit.
He was speaking about salvation and how to attain it.

Seems like you know about biblical wording...
this is called a metaphor.

* Yes, it is possible for a person to fall away in the flesh, but you are not taking into account the power of God, and the wondrous plan of salvation which is in Christ Jesus.

Correct. The plan is IN CHRIST.
As long as one is IN CHRIST he is saved.

If one FALLS AWAY from the FAITH
he is no longer IN CHRIST and thus cannot be saved since salvation comes from being IN CHRIST.

There are some who will be saved as by fire, but saved none the less, they will still live, but not reign.

You're referring to 1 Corinthians 3:15....
Please read it again...I'm not getting into this.

* This is a misquote, What is actually said in John 3:36 is:-

'He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life:
and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life;
but the wrath of God abideth on him.'
(Joh 3:36)

So you don't even trust the translators of the NT??

There is no misquote.
They know Greek and we do not.

Find out what disbelieve means in Greek...
it means to DISOBEY.

In any case,,,it would make no difference.
If we do NOT BELIEVE in Christ...we cannot be saved.

And BELIEVE has a specific meaning in Greek
Do you know what it is?

Find out.

 

[nedsk]

Sorry.

Yes. I don't know either.
I agree about a smaller but stronger church.

They cannot change doctrine either.
It would create a problem...
was the church right BEFORE or AFTER.

This is one of the reasons adult baptism never takes hold.
In the early church doctrine was being worked out.
It really cannot be changed now.


The Latin Mass was still being celebrated here too in some places...but almost in hiding.
I don't know for sure the belief of this Pope....it seems like he might not be against it.
It used to be that if a couple of persons asked for a Latin Mass, the priest had to do it...
Not anymore.

Agreed.
But he sets the tone and encourages new idea which myay, or may not, follow church teaching. (previous teaching).

I agree with a lot of church teachings.
Not all.
Also, the church changed after Nicea and even before that.

Doctrine and dogma are different. The real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist is dogma. Doctrine is can you receive it on the hand or on the tongue. This argument creates many difficulties and the dogma gets lost in the debate over doctrine. It's sad.

It's not necessary to agree with all the church teachings but

You misquoted the verse to try to prove the MaryCult lie. (ooops).

That's not very smart., or honest.

The verse says.......

"""""""The like FIGURE whereunto even baptism doth also now save us."""

A Figure is "symbolic"......not literal.

"""""""used to indicate a departure from a literal use of words; = metaphorically".

It doesn't say figure. You aren't the definitive authority.

You misquoted the verse to try to prove the MaryCult lie. (ooops).

That's not very smart., or honest.

The verse says.......

"""""""The like FIGURE whereunto even baptism doth also now save us."""

A Figure is "symbolic"......not literal.

"""""""used to indicate a departure from a literal use of words; = metaphorically".

 

[nedsk]

Don't wate yout time with this guy (Behold). He is an ignorant Catholic-hater of the FIRST degree.
He rejects ALL Scripture that dels with Water Baptism, the Eucharist, etc.

He makes up his OWN doctrines like every other Lone Ranger . . .

It certainly appears that way. It's amazing how s/he thinks they are the absolute authority. The level of hatred is also very troubling

 

[Behold]

It doesn't say figure. You aren't the definitive authority.

Stop being dishonest..... or people will think the MaryCult wants you to do it.

1 Peter 3:21


21 ""The like FIGURE whereunto even baptism doth also now save us"""
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[nedsk]

Stop being dishonest..... or people will think the MaryCult wants you to do it.

1 Peter 3:21​

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21 ""The like FIGURE whereunto even baptism doth also now save us"""​

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View attachment 67951​

Stop pretending you're the absolute authority of Scripture. Oh that's right your pride won't let you

 

[Behold]

Stop pretending you're the absolute authority of Scripture.

Its not my fault that you dont know anything about the NT, or Salvation. @nedsk
If you want to have a tantrum, again, then aim it at the MaryCult as they are your issue.., as they have mind blinded you.
You are their happily deceived = TOOL, and nothing more.
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[nedsk]

Its not my fault that you dont know anything about the NT, or Salvation. @nedsk
If you want to have a tantrum, again, then aim it at the MaryCult as they are your issue.., as they have mind blinded you.
You are their TOOL, and nothing more.
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View attachment 67953

The pope of beholdism^^^^^^

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hello @God'sGrace,

Thank you for your response. I cannot deny that it is possible for someone to fall away: but I do believe by personal experience as well as by the word of God, that if God has begun a work in you, He will continue to do it until the day of Christ. I was twelve years of age when I heard the gospel of the grace of God preached in my local town hall, and faith came through hearing. I believed God, and it was counted unto me for righteousness.

I had little understanding, but God had begun a work in me, and is continuing to do so, and will do, until the day of Christ. (Php. 1:10) I am now 77 years of age.

'God is faithful, Who will do it.'

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

people who say we can lose salvation deny the power of God and his promise

If we can not be confident in the very thing Paul said we can be confident about. that he who began a good work WILL COMPLETE it

that what or who are we trusting?

Since faith is having assurance or confidence in something, if we are nto confident in God doing what he promised. where is our faith lie?

if you listen long enough, You will understand their faith is in themselves.. THEY must complete their salvation by THEIR works..ie, they must HELP GOD.

or THEY will be lost.

 

[Behold]

The pope of beholdism

 

[ProDeo]

Wrong by your assessment. Lets be clear though whatever wrongs you think exist with the Catholic Church that doesn't make protestantism right. Just on the matter of the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist the Catholic Church is STILL teaching that as well as the other things they still teach that the fathers taught 2 millennia ago. You throw the baby out with the bath water. Also it's observation not judgment. In the earliest days of the church less and sola werent taught.

You forget that thanks to the little monk the RCC made considerable changes themselves.

 

[nedsk]

View attachment 67957

The pope of beholdism ^^^ at least I'm not the pope of my own religion

 

[nedsk]

You forget that thanks to the little monk the RCC made considerable changes themselves.

Changes they were very needed but he was a looney little monk who went off the rails and sadly has sent millions upon millions into damnation

 

[GodsGrace]

Doctrine and dogma are different. The real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist is dogma. Doctrine is can you receive it on the hand or on the tongue. This argument creates many difficulties and the dogma gets lost in the debate over doctrine. It's sad.

I don't believe HOW one accepts the host is doctrine.
One could choose either method.

Will ask a priest if I think of it next time (or a Deacon - a neighbor of mine).

I don't believe the host should be accepted in the hands...
but it's how children in Catechism are taught nowadays.

 

[GodsGrace]

View attachment 67957

So nice to honor Mary...
the Mother of our Lord.

This particular Pope feels that he owes his life to her.
Guess you don't know about the predictions of Fatima.

No matter.

John 13:35
35“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

 

[GodsGrace]

You forget that thanks to the little monk the RCC made considerable changes themselves.

What?
They still have indulgences.

They HAVE admitted that some outside the church can be saved.

I really can't think of anything else.

 

[nedsk]

I don't believe HOW one accepts the host is doctrine.
One could choose either method.

Will ask a priest if I think of it next time (or a Deacon - a neighbor of mine).

I don't believe the host should be accepted in the hands...
but it's how children in Catechism are taught nowadays.

It's a practice which more like doctrine than the dogma of the real presence which is unchanging.

I prefer to receive on the tongue myself but I've had serious discussions with Catholics who only attend latin Mass and they they claim receiving in the hand is a sin. I'm not of that mind as I don't think it really matters to God how you receive the Eucharist if your not properly disposed to receive it either way.

 

[nedsk]

What?
They still have indulgences.

They HAVE admitted that some outside the church can be saved.

I really can't think of anything else.

You're stuck on I dulgences as if that was the entirety of the looney little monks delusional rant. He opposed the selling of them. The looney little monk was properly calling for reform not reformation but the church leaders were stubborn. Luther was as well. What Luther ended up creating was millions of mini popes who all got to decide what scripture says.

 

[Behold]

So nice to honor Mary...
the Mother of our Lord.

The NT says that Mary is "blessed among women"....... not above them.

The MaryCult decided she was in charge of Helping Jesus, save souls........."co author of Salvation".
No Bible agrees with this, or even suggests it.
So, that is an outrageous demonic misrepresentation of a SINNER, who was MARY, who needed Salvation from Her Son, same as any other sinner.
Mary's Parents were sinners, and she came from THEM...........a part of the Adamic Line, so, she was born, "Adamic".
Now, the MaryCult could not allow that truth to exist, as it destroys the entire Mary Cult's reason to exist.
Therefore THEY created this false theology of "Marian"......that has her perpetually a virgin, a co-author of Salvation, and they even have her flying to heaven, in her dead body....and they call this "mary's acension"., and they celebrate this day, that was created in about 1950, by a Pope who decided it was a good idea to create a brand new lie regarding "the Virgin".

All of this is MARYCULT delusion, and they have deluded Billions of People with this man made religious Scam, that is nothing more then "Goddess Diana" worship, that became "MaryCult" church.

No Apostle in the NT, has anything to do with Mary......nothing., other then John who was told to see about her after Jesus died.
No Apostle prays to Mary.
They dont give Mary any authority......zero.

So all of Mary's preeminence, comes from The CULT of Mary. = A man made religious opera.

This particular Pope feels that he owes his life to her.

Then this Pope is a hell bound fool, as He owes His Life to JESUS.......if he has eternal life.
Mary can't save Him, and........ what kind of religious fool prays to a Plastic Statue of Mary?

A.) "The Cult of Mary"
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[nedsk]

The NT says that Mary is "blessed among women"....... not above them.

The MaryCult decided she was in charge of Helping Jesus, save souls........."co author of Salvation".
No Bible agrees with this, or even suggests it.
So, that is an outrageous demonic misrepresentation of a SINNER, who was MARY, who needed Salvation from Her Son, same as any other sinner.
Mary's Parents were sinners, and she came from THEM...........a part of the Adamic Line, so, she was born, "Adamic".
Now, the MaryCult could not allow that truth to exist, as it destroys the entire Mary Cult's reason to exist.
Therefore THEY created this false theology of "Marian"......that has her perpetually a virgin, a co-author of Salvation, and they even have her flying to heaven, in her dead body....and they call this "mary's acension"., and they celebrate this day, that was created in about 1950, by a Pope who decided it was a good idea to create a brand new lie regarding "the Virgin".

All of this is MARYCULT delusion, and they have deluded Billions of People with this man made religious Scam, that is nothing more then "Goddess Diana" worship, that became "MaryCult" church.

No Apostle in the NT, has anything to do with Mary......nothing., other then John who was told to see about her after Jesus died.
No Apostle prays to Mary.
They dont give Mary any authority......zero.

So all of Mary's preeminence, comes from The CULT of Mary. = A man made religious opera.





Then this Pope is a hell bound fool, as He owes His Life to JESUS.......if he has eternal life.
Mary can't save Him, and........ what kind of religious fool prays to a Plastic Statue of Mary?

A.) "The Cult of Mary"
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View attachment 67958

In your version it says highly favored in normal bibles it says full of grace

 

[GodsGrace]

It's a practice which more like doctrine than the dogma of the real presence which is unchanging.

I prefer to receive on the tongue myself but I've had serious discussions with Catholics who only attend latin Mass and they they claim receiving in the hand is a sin. I'm not of that mind as I don't think it really matters to God how you receive the Eucharist if your not properly disposed to receive it either way.

Agreed.
It's not a sin.
It just seems to be less reverential.

I think using the altar would also be nice, instead of making a line...
like someone is giving out candy or something.

I also used to teach the catechism kids to wear proper clothing to Mass...
but the priest said I shouldn't insist too much -- it was enough that they were going to Mass.
Guess I'm too conservative for him!
I know him well. He's very pastoral, but lacks regarding the sacraments.
No one's perfect. He's retired now but still does Friday evening Mass.