The founding fathers of modern-day Premillennialism were heretics - see the evidence

[WPM]

Christ's 1st century Christian Church was built upon the FOUNDATION of His Apostles, God's Old Testament prophets, with Lord Jesus Christ Himself as its Chief Corner Stone.

So those who MOCK that FOUNDATION, what are they most likely following? Definitely not Christ Jesus and His early Church!

And what am I saying that is contrary to that?

 

[WPM]

Just to show there are several liars on this forum that hate the Biblical written literal "thousand years" future reign by Lord Jesus when He returns... some of those liars have even tried to establish Justin Martyr as a believer on men's theory of Amillennialism, when instead Martyr recognized Christ's future "thousand years" as being literal...

Justin Martyr:​

“For if you have fallen in with some who are called Christians, but who do not admit this [truth] and venture to blaspheme the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; who say there is no resurrection of the dead, and that their souls, when they die, are taken to heaven; do not imagine that they are Christians . . . But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, [as] the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.” Dialogue with Trypho LXXX, p.239​

That above what Justin Martyr said reveals that he actually was a Premillennialist!

I've noticed several so-called scholars have website posts trying to push man's false Amill theories. They make false claims that believing Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Rev.20 to mean a literal 1,000 years was not believed by the early Church fathers. The above quote puts those false scholars to shame.

Tertiullian (160-230):

“But we do confess that a kingdom is promised to us upon the earth, although before heaven, only in another state of existence; inasmuch as it will be after the resurrection for a thousand years in the divinely-built city of Jerusalem, ‘letdown from heaven,’ which the apostle also calls ‘our mother from above;’ and, while declaring that our citizenship is in heaven, he predicts of it that it is really a city in heaven.’’​

And Lactantius (A.D. 250-330):

“But when the thousand years shall be completed, the world shall he renewed by God, and the heavens shall be folded together, and the earth shall be changed, and God shall transform men into the similitude of angels, and they shall be white as snow; and they shall always be employed in the sight of the Almighty, and shall make offerings to their Lord, and serve Him for ever.”​

Eusebius, Bishop of Caesarea:

Ecclesiastical History (III, 39), "Among other things he says that a thousand years will elapse after the resurrection of the dead and there will be a corporal establishment of Christ’s Kingdom on this earth" (The Apostolic Fathers in The Fathers Of The Church, edited by Ludwig Schopp, et. al., translated by Francis X. Glimm, Joseph M. F. Marique, and Gerald G. Walsh, Washington, D.C.: The Catholic University of America Press, 1962, I, p. 378).​

1. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of Satan being cast down from heaven at the second coming?
2. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of the binding of Satan at the second coming?
3. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the wicked survive the second coming of the Lord?
4. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Satan survives the second coming?
5. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that Satan is cast into the bottomless pit for 1000 years after the second coming?
6. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the wicked populate a future millennial earth?
7. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that the curse continues unabated on a future millennial earth?
8. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that mortals will populate future millennial earth?
9. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that marriage and procreation continue on on a future millennial earth?
10. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that sin continues on in a future millennial earth?
11. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that death continues on in a future millennial earth?
12. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that corruption continues unabated on in a future millennial earth?
13. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Jesus will rule over his enemies for a thousand years after the second coming?
14. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the saints rule over mortal humanity for a thousand years?
15. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the glorified Church will rule in the Millennial era, causing all on earth to submit to the rule of Christ at that time?
16. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of the restoring of Israel back to her old covenant theocratic status in a future millennium?
17. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of Israel retaking her ancient borders in a future millennium?
18. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that Satan will be released from the bottomless pit 1000 years after the second coming?
19. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be a revival of Satanism 1,000 years+ after the second coming as the wicked in their billions overrun the Premil millennium as the sand of the sea?
20. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Jesus and the glorified saints will be surrounded by billions of wicked mortals led by Satan 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
21. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Jesus and the glorified saints will be surrounded by billions of wicked mortals led by Satan 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
22. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be a second (or 3rd for Pretribbers) rapture when the first earth flees away 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
23. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be a second glorification when the first earth flees away 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
24. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be 2 last days periods - one before the second coming and one after?
25. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be 2 new heavens and new earths one with sin, sinners and corruption in it and the other perfect?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

1. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of Satan being cast down from heaven at the second coming?
2. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of the binding of Satan at the second coming?
3. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the wicked survive the second coming of the Lord?
4. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Satan survives the second coming?
5. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that Satan is cast into the bottomless pit for 1000 years after the second coming?
6. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the wicked populate a future millennial earth?
7. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that the curse continues unabated on a future millennial earth?
8. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that mortals will populate future millennial earth?
9. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that marriage and procreation continue on on a future millennial earth?
10. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that sin continues on in a future millennial earth?
11. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that death continues on in a future millennial earth?
12. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that corruption continues unabated on in a future millennial earth?
13. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Jesus will rule over his enemies for a thousand years after the second coming?
14. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the saints rule over mortal humanity for a thousand years?
15. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the glorified Church will rule in the Millennial era, causing all on earth to submit to the rule of Christ at that time?
16. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of the restoring of Israel back to her old covenant theocratic status in a future millennium?
17. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of Israel retaking her ancient borders in a future millennium?
18. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that Satan will be released from the bottomless pit 1000 years after the second coming?
19. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be a revival of Satanism 1,000 years+ after the second coming as the wicked in their billions overrun the Premil millennium as the sand of the sea?
20. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Jesus and the glorified saints will be surrounded by billions of wicked mortals led by Satan 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
21. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Jesus and the glorified saints will be surrounded by billions of wicked mortals led by Satan 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
22. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be a second (or 3rd for Pretribbers) rapture when the first earth flees away 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
23. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be a second glorification when the first earth flees away 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
24. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be 2 last days periods - one before the second coming and one after?
25. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be 2 new heavens and new earths one with sin, sinners and corruption in it and the other perfect?

He won't even attempt to answer one of these questions. He is too prideful to admit that their beliefs were not like modern Premils. Also, did you see where he accuses us of claiming that Justin Martyr was an amillennialist? None of us did any such thing. He has horrible reading comprehension skills. What we're saying, as you're showing here, is that Justin Martyr did not have all of the same beliefs as modern Premils because he was a Chiliast. Other than believing that the thousand years followed Christ's return, those early Chiliasts agreed more with Amils than modern day Premils.

 

[WPM]

He won't even attempt to answer one of these questions. He is too prideful to admit that their beliefs were not like modern Premils. Also, did you see where he accuses us of claiming that Justin Martyr was an amillennialist? None of us did any such thing. He has horrible reading comprehension skills. What we're saying, as you're showing here, is that Justin Martyr did not have all of the same beliefs as modern Premils because he was a Chiliast. Other than believing that the thousand years followed Christ's return, those early Chiliasts agreed more with Amils than modern day Premils.

No Premil will. That is because they expose the Premil lie we have heard for years.

 

[Davy]

1. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of Satan being cast down from heaven at the second coming?

Rev.12:7 forward, which points to the time of "great tribulation", is when Satan and his angels are cast out of Heaven at the END of this world, and that happens PRIOR to Christ's 2nd coming. THUS YOU ARE CONFUSED.

1. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of the binding of Satan at the second coming?

Per Rev.20, Apostle John (circa 96 A.D.), declared Satan being bound in his pit prison for a "thousand years" within propetic links about the time of the resurrected saints, and their beginning reign of a "thousand years" with Christ Jesus. THUS YOU AGAIN ARE CONFUSED BY MEN'S LIES.

1. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the wicked survive the second coming of the Lord?

The Zechariah 14 Scripture revealed the survival of the UNSAVED NATIONS after Christ's future return, even as the Revelation 20 Scripture does also. So you gonna LIE and try to claim none of the early Church fathers knew about those Scriptures? THUS YOU ARE ONLY KNOWINGING... PUSHING LIES NOW.

Your LIST is FAKE, and just cannon fodder in a vain attempt to drum up evidence againt Christ's future return PRIOR to His "thousand years" reign with His elect per Revelation 20. By your trying... to FORCE one to provide historical evidence by the early Church fathers having discussed the matter that is CLEARLY WRITTEN OF IN THE BIBLE SCRIPTURES is what is your vanity show is really about.

 

[WPM]

Rev.12:7 forward, which points to the time of "great tribulation", is when Satan and his angels are cast out of Heaven at the END of this world, and that happens PRIOR to Christ's 2nd coming. THUS YOU ARE CONFUSED.



Per Rev.20, Apostle John (circa 96 A.D.), declared Satan being bound in his pit prison for a "thousand years" within propetic links about the time of the resurrected saints, and their beginning reign of a "thousand years" with Christ Jesus. THUS YOU AGAIN ARE CONFUSED BY MEN'S LIES.



The Zechariah 14 Scripture revealed the survival of the UNSAVED NATIONS after Christ's future return, even as the Revelation 20 Scripture does also. So you gonna LIE and try to claim none of the early Church fathers knew about those Scriptures? THUS YOU ARE ONLY KNOWINGING... PUSHING LIES NOW.

Your LIST is FAKE, and just cannon fodder in a vain attempt to drum up evidence againt Christ's future return PRIOR to His "thousand years" reign with His elect per Revelation 20. By your trying... to FORCE one to provide historical evidence by the early Church fathers having discussed the matter that is CLEARLY WRITTEN OF IN THE BIBLE SCRIPTURES is what is your vanity show is really about.

Oh, so you admit you have nothing? This is what i said! No ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 believed Premil.

 

[Davy]

Oh, so you admit you have nothing? This is what i said! No ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 believed Premil.

The admitting of having NOTHING is what you... are doing. It is YOU... that has shown that you don't even know what The Bible Scriptures are which are clearly written! Thus trying to debate Bible with someone like you is like having a fight with a one-armed man.

 

[WPM]

The admitting of having NOTHING is what you... are doing. It is YOU... that has shown that you don't even know what The Bible Scriptures are which are clearly written! Thus trying to debate Bible with someone like you is like having a fight with a one-armed man.

The scriptural battle has been long won. There are multiple threads that our testimony to that. I am just adding the historic battle to the list. Whatever angle you look up comma premillennialism is breast off any creedence.

 

[Davy]

The scriptural battle has been long won. There are multiple threads that our testimony to that. I am just adding the historic battle to the list. Whatever angle you look up comma premillennialism is breast off any creedence.

Just more HOT AIR, even with false affirmations that you cannot prove. You know what an affirmation is? It is a statement or declaration AS IF TRUE because the claimer WANTS it to be truth, when it is NOT proven to be true. Another way to say it is, 'wishful thinking'.

 

[WPM]

Just more HOT AIR, even with false affirmations that you cannot prove. You know what an affirmation is? It is a statement or declaration AS IF TRUE because the claimer WANTS it to be truth, when it is NOT proven to be true. Another way to say it is, 'wishful thinking'.

You have presented nothing of historic worth to prove your case because you have nothing of historic worth to prove your case. Neither has any Premiller. That is because the Op is watertight. It factually true!

1. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of Satan being cast down from heaven at the second coming?
2. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of the binding of Satan at the second coming?
3. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the wicked survive the second coming of the Lord?
4. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Satan survives the second coming?
5. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that Satan is cast into the bottomless pit for 1000 years after the second coming?
6. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the wicked populate a future millennial earth?
7. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that the curse continues unabated on a future millennial earth?
8. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that mortals will populate future millennial earth?
9. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that marriage and procreation continue on on a future millennial earth?
10. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that sin continues on in a future millennial earth?
11. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that death continues on in a future millennial earth?
12. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that corruption continues unabated on in a future millennial earth?
13. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Jesus will rule over his enemies for a thousand years after the second coming?
14. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the saints rule over mortal humanity for a thousand years?
15. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the glorified Church will rule in the Millennial era, causing all on earth to submit to the rule of Christ at that time?
16. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of the restoring of Israel back to her old covenant theocratic status in a future millennium?
17. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of Israel retaking her ancient borders in a future millennium?
18. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that Satan will be released from the bottomless pit 1000 years after the second coming?
19. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be a revival of Satanism 1,000 years+ after the second coming as the wicked in their billions overrun the Premil millennium as the sand of the sea?
20. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Jesus and the glorified saints will be surrounded by billions of wicked mortals led by Satan 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
21. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Jesus and the glorified saints will be surrounded by billions of wicked mortals led by Satan 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
22. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be a second (or 3rd for Pretribbers) rapture when the first earth flees away 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
23. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be a second glorification when the first earth flees away 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
24. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be 2 last days periods - one before the second coming and one after?
25. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be 2 new heavens and new earths one with sin, sinners and corruption in it and the other perfect?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Rev.12:7 forward, which points to the time of "great tribulation", is when Satan and his angels are cast out of Heaven at the END of this world, and that happens PRIOR to Christ's 2nd coming. THUS YOU ARE CONFUSED.



Per Rev.20, Apostle John (circa 96 A.D.), declared Satan being bound in his pit prison for a "thousand years" within propetic links about the time of the resurrected saints, and their beginning reign of a "thousand years" with Christ Jesus. THUS YOU AGAIN ARE CONFUSED BY MEN'S LIES.



The Zechariah 14 Scripture revealed the survival of the UNSAVED NATIONS after Christ's future return, even as the Revelation 20 Scripture does also. So you gonna LIE and try to claim none of the early Church fathers knew about those Scriptures? THUS YOU ARE ONLY KNOWINGING... PUSHING LIES NOW.

Your LIST is FAKE, and just cannon fodder in a vain attempt to drum up evidence againt Christ's future return PRIOR to His "thousand years" reign with His elect per Revelation 20. By your trying... to FORCE one to provide historical evidence by the early Church fathers having discussed the matter that is CLEARLY WRITTEN OF IN THE BIBLE SCRIPTURES is what is your vanity show is really about.

In other words, you have no evidence to show that any Chiliast pre-270 AD believed the same things that modern day Premils believe other than the timing of the thousand years. You have nothing to show that those chiliasts believed Satan would be bound when Christ returns or that they interpreted Zechariah 14 the way modern day Premils like you do and so on. Why can't you swallow your foolish pride and admit that you can't show any Chiliast as having taught any of the things that WPM listed that modern day Premils believe?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The admitting of having NOTHING is what you... are doing. It is YOU... that has shown that you don't even know what The Bible Scriptures are which are clearly written! Thus trying to debate Bible with someone like you is like having a fight with a one-armed man.

You didn't even answer one of his questions, so YOU are the one who has NOTHING to back up your claims about what the ECFs believed.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You have presented nothing of historic worth to prove your case because you have nothing of historic worth to prove your case. Neither has any Premiller. That is because the Op is watertight. It factually true!

1. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of Satan being cast down from heaven at the second coming?
2. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of the binding of Satan at the second coming?
3. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the wicked survive the second coming of the Lord?
4. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Satan survives the second coming?
5. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that Satan is cast into the bottomless pit for 1000 years after the second coming?
6. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the wicked populate a future millennial earth?
7. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that the curse continues unabated on a future millennial earth?
8. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that mortals will populate future millennial earth?
9. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that marriage and procreation continue on on a future millennial earth?
10. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that sin continues on in a future millennial earth?
11. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that death continues on in a future millennial earth?
12. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that corruption continues unabated on in a future millennial earth?
13. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Jesus will rule over his enemies for a thousand years after the second coming?
14. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the saints rule over mortal humanity for a thousand years?
15. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the glorified Church will rule in the Millennial era, causing all on earth to submit to the rule of Christ at that time?
16. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of the restoring of Israel back to her old covenant theocratic status in a future millennium?
17. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of Israel retaking her ancient borders in a future millennium?
18. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that Satan will be released from the bottomless pit 1000 years after the second coming?
19. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be a revival of Satanism 1,000 years+ after the second coming as the wicked in their billions overrun the Premil millennium as the sand of the sea?
20. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Jesus and the glorified saints will be surrounded by billions of wicked mortals led by Satan 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
21. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Jesus and the glorified saints will be surrounded by billions of wicked mortals led by Satan 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
22. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be a second (or 3rd for Pretribbers) rapture when the first earth flees away 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
23. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be a second glorification when the first earth flees away 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
24. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be 2 last days periods - one before the second coming and one after?
25. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be 2 new heavens and new earths one with sin, sinners and corruption in it and the other perfect?

He couldn't even answer 1 of these 25 questions, but he tries to claim what you're saying is "wishful thinking". If that was the case, then surely he would be able to answer at least one or two of these questions, but he can't.

 

[Davy]

In other words, you have no evidence to show that any Chiliast pre-270 AD believed the same things that modern day Premils believe other than the timing of the thousand years.

Funny! In other words, you Amillennialists have NO BIBLICAL EVIDENCE AT ALL for your fake theory that the WRITTEN "thousand years" period of Revelation 20 isn't literal as it is written.

Instead, you guys go down the path of DARKNESS like Origen of the pagan influenced Alexandria school, treating God's Word like it is one huge ALLEGORY.

 

[Davy]

You have presented nothing of historic worth to prove your case because you have nothing of historic worth to prove your case. Neither has any Premiller. That is because the Op is watertight. It factually true!

1. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of Satan being cast down from heaven at the second coming.
   
   ....

BRETHREN IN CHRIST:
Don't be fooled by all that cannon fodder WPM has put up to try and SIMULATE valid Biblical questions in attempt to prove the fake theory of man's doctrine called Amillennialism. They are all LOADED statements.

What's a LOADED statement?? It's something like, "Are you still beating your wife?" Such a loaded statement is designed that by giving an answer of either yes or no, it still assumes you're guilty.

And what is actually MOST ILLITERATE with WPM's list, is that the EVIDENCE of the early Church father's being Premillennialists, meaning they believed Christ's future "thousand years" reign will be literal when He returns, is well written of in their writings. And I even QUOTED SOME OF THAT IN A PREVIOUS POST, which these Amillennialists NEVER disproved!!! And now WPM is asking for EVIDENCE ALREADY GIVEN? What kind of mind is at work with that kind of consternation inside??

But maybe... he needs a little RESEARCH HELP in finding those early writings of early Church fathers. Here's a fair link online...

Early Church Fathers - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

ccel.org

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Funny! In other words, you Amillennialists have NO BIBLICAL EVIDENCE AT ALL for your fake theory that the WRITTEN "thousand years" period of Revelation 20 isn't literal as it is written.

Why can't you answer even one of his questions? You think we aren't noticing that? Why are you so dishonest that you cant admit that the beliefs of those ECF Chiliasts had more in common with Amills than Premills?

Instead, you guys go down the path of DARKNESS like Origen of the pagan influenced Alexandria school, treating God's Word like it is one huge ALLEGORY.

You have no clue of what you're talking about. Amillennialism is based on clear, straightforward scriptures that we use to help interpret more difficult passages. Read the first 2 posts of this thread so that you can learn something and stop lying about the origins of Amill: Unlike Amillennialism, Premillennialism is based on assumptions and speculation rather than on any clear, straightforward scriptures

 

[Davy]

Why can't you answer even one of his questions? You think we aren't noticing that? Why are you so dishonest that you cant admit that the beliefs of those ECF Chiliasts had more in common with Amills than Premills?


You have no clue of what you're talking about. Amillennialism is based on clear, straightforward scriptures that we use to help interpret more difficult passages. Read the first 2 posts of this thread so that you can learn something and stop lying about the origins of Amill: Unlike Amillennialism, Premillennialism is based on assumptions and speculation rather than on any clear, straightforward scriptures

Why can't you DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH OF THE WRITINGS OF THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS OF THE 1ST CENTURY? Are you really that LAZY?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

BRETHREN IN CHRIST:
Don't be fooled by all that cannon fodder WPM has put up to try and SIMULATE valid Biblical questions in attempt to prove the fake theory of man's doctrine called Amillennialism. They are all LOADED statements.

What's a LOADED statement?? It's something like, "Are you still beating your wife?" Such a loaded statement is designed that by giving an answer of either yes or no, it still assumes you're guilty.

LOL! Nice job of using excuses for not being able to answer even one of the questions that were asked. You are so full of pride that you can't even acknowledge the FACT that the ECF Chiliasts did not believe many of the things that modern day Premils believe.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why can't you DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH OF THE WRITINGS OF THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS OF THE 1ST CENTURY? Are you really that LAZY?

Who said I haven't? You are the LAZY one who can't bother to answer even one of the questions that were asked. It's not like you have to answer all of them or none. Just answer one of them, Mr. LAZY BONES. And how about not being LAZY by not looking at the posts I referenced which show that Amil is NOT based on allegory as you FOOLISHLY claimed, but rather on clear, straightforward scriptures.

 

[WPM]

BRETHREN IN CHRIST:
Don't be fooled by all that cannon fodder WPM has put up to try and SIMULATE valid Biblical questions in attempt to prove the fake theory of man's doctrine called Amillennialism. They are all LOADED statements.

What's a LOADED statement?? It's something like, "Are you still beating your wife?" Such a loaded statement is designed that by giving an answer of either yes or no, it still assumes you're guilty.

And what is actually MOST ILLITERATE with WPM's list, is that the EVIDENCE of the early Church father's being Premillennialists, meaning they believed Christ's future "thousand years" reign will be literal when He returns, is well written of in their writings. And I even QUOTED SOME OF THAT IN A PREVIOUS POST, which these Amillennialists NEVER disproved!!! And now WPM is asking for EVIDENCE ALREADY GIVEN? What kind of mind is at work with that kind of consternation inside??

But maybe... he needs a little RESEARCH HELP in finding those early writings of early Church fathers. Here's a fair link online...

Early Church Fathers - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

ccel.org

You have provided nothing so far, and you know it. This is a typical evasive non-evidential Premil post.

Take the questions 1 by 1 and provide something to support your wild claims.

We hear the term “fake news” used a lot over recent years, especially in political circles and especially to much of the misinformation spread on the internet by pseudo current affairs experts. It is a charge that is often hurled by politicians at their opponents to discredit their policies. But this term could be fittingly used to describe the findings of many evangelical writers when assessing the beliefs of the early Church fathers. The sad fact is, there is more objectivity and truth among the secular scholars and Roman Catholic theologians in regard to the history of the early Church fathers than there is in the writings of most professing believers. That is so wrong! After all, born-again Christians are the ones that have the Spirit of truth within them. They should not therefore be happy with anything other than the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Many evangelical writers seem incapable of performing an objective study and releasing accurate conclusions on the ancient writers. For some, this could be because they are ignorance of what they are saying because they have failed (or refused) to do the deep hard work of research, so needed on this subject to establish ancient facts. In many cases, it comes from one end-time commentator repeating what another end-time commentator says without doing the necessary exploration and deep study. There may even be some that are so bias that they recognize the historic facts, but choose to misrepresent them in order to justify their own partial position.

It is very easy, convenient and common for Christians to impose their 21st century theological thinking upon the early Church writings. But it is both naive and unwise to do so. The unconventional theology of the early writers lends itself to modern-day misunderstanding, bias speculations and faulty conclusions.

One of the major challenges is that there is such a wealth of ancient information to wade through that few are willing to put the time and effort into doing deep research and getting to the root of many of their innovative beliefs. Even fewer are able to dissect some of their strange or obscure statements.

On top of this, many today forget that these ancient writers didn't have the same easy access we have today to the New Testament writings. Much of Christendom even rejected or were suspicious of the book of Revelation. What is more, many of the earliest writings have been lost through time, making an accurate comprehensive analysis extremely challenging.

For those who dig deep, they quickly find that there is nothing normal or typical about the writings and theology of the early church writers when it comes to eschatology. They had some wild and wonderful ideas on the subject of end times. Their views were interesting to say the least.

Many force their theological bias upon these ancient manuscripts.