mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Yes, Peter commanded the Gentiles to be baptized in water AFTER they believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were saved. (Acts 10:43-47)
WHAT IS THE WATER IN JOHN 3:5?
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using your belief system to interpret the word. and not the word to form your belief system
I posted that, and emphasized the same fact in post#450 I will copy paste here
We can see Jesus forward as it pertains to baptism here
Mark 1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
John 4:2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
John 4:3 He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee.
Jesus said,
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And here when Philip preached the gospel to the eunuch and it reads
Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
So what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Acts 8:37 And Philip said,
If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
He was to believe first as Jesus said,
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Peter with the Gentiles asks
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days
So they had the Holy Ghost and he commanded they be baptized with water
And John the baptist too was filled with the Holy Ghost from his mothers womb (Luke 1:15)
But the first thing John says to Jesus when Jesus come out to be batized by him was
Matt 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
And John already had the Holy Ghost, but I am not getting the feeling John is speaking of fire there
And so did the Gentiles have the Holy Ghost when Peter commanded the same to be baptized, saying
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
And ofcourse, this was after the cross because in verse 19
Mark 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
Then ofcourse, we have the example previously given of Philip being preached the gospel out of the book of Isaiah and aparently the enunch understood Philip spoke of water baptism because he pointed out water and wanted to get baptized by Philip (as the disciples of Jesus did baptize others in water). On the otherhand we have Simony who also believed and was baptized (who was still in the bond of iniquity).
But it does say in Acts here
Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
@Fred J do you believe being baptized by Holy Ghost AND fire is being baptized by the Holy Ghost AND tongues of fire and the LAKE of fire? Or can you separate between the two in Matt?
What I mean is, we have both the wheat and the chaff right?
Wheat (as Jeremiah shows us) have his word and speak his word faithfully whereas the chaff, are those who are just dreamers telling dreams only ,as it says
Jer 23:28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully.
What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD.
The chaff is as nothing to the wheat because it says,
Jer 23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?
Whereas here John says (concerning himself)
Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance:
but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
In light of the above only, they which speak his word are his wheat, even as he says here
Jer 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.
And in the following verse in Matt 3:12 (between the wheat and the chaff, very specifically here)
Matt 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Either way, their end is fire, that is without question
.
Ok! Had a restful sleep, and so we carry on...
The first believers got it slightly wrong - water baptism is a trick, a test, built into the gospel.
Worldwide, churches of all shapes and sizes teach people to be baptized in water. It's hard to get two of them to agree on exactly how it's supposed to be done,
whether you baptize in the name of Jesus, or in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost;
whether you sprinkle or pour water on people, or dunk them in the water;
whether it's done in a pool inside a church, or in a river;
who does it;
what the person doing it needs to believe in order for it to be valid;
whether you tip the person backward, or forward, when putting them under the water;
how old the person needs to be before you can baptize them;
what to do if the person backslides after being baptized;
whether the Holy Spirit comes into a person before, during, or after the water baptism...
The list goes on and on. There have been more divisions in the church over water baptism than over any other teaching in the Holy Bible or out of it.
Paul is the first person to have seen through this confusion to the truth behind it.
People were arguing over who had baptized them. Paul had baptized only a small handful of people, but soon realized that Jesus never meant for us to baptize people in water:
For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chl-oe that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. (1 Cor. 1:11-17).
Here's another oft-missed clue:
And [Jesus] said unto [his disciples], Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized [in the Spirit, NOT water baptized] shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned [IOW, belief results in spiritual baptism unto salvation; unbelief results in damnation (water baptism is irrelevant)]...And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word [NOT with water baptisms] with signs following. Amen. (Mark 16:15-16, 20).
The understanding of baptism has been messed up and distorted from antiquity. The result has been not unlike the parable of the sower, where two different seeds were sown but only one produced fruit. And such rituals of men are easy to fake. There is something far more satisfying than being dunked in water. God says that he wants obedience more than sacrifice (1 Sam. 15:22).
Water baptism was a Jewish ritual, a Hebrew practice. There is nothing uniquely Christian about water baptism. The disciples did baptize in water, but Jesus did not do it (John 4:2). Water baptism is inconsistent with the Spirit of everything else that Jesus taught. Most of Jesus' enemies were circumcised; most were baptized!
...I [John] indeed baptize you [the multitude] with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire (Luke 3:16).
What of Jesus' baptism? John protested:
But John forbade [Jesus], saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? (Mat. 3:14).
Jesus was the perfect spotless Lamb of God; he didn't need his sins washed away. Rather, Jesus asked John to accommodate him, because it made sense for them "to fulfill all righteousness". So John went ahead and baptized Jesus. The end of the old, and the start of the new.
So what does "to fulfill all righteousness" mean?
Well, Jesus was born into a Jewish family; circumcised at 8 days of age; taken to the temple at 12 years of age; raised in all the disciplines of the Jewish religion. And now he does this one final Jewish ritual, marking the end of his Jewishness and the start of a deeper revelation.
Jesus came to replace, fulfill, render useless, the law of Moses:
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it (Luke 16:16). Out with the old, in with the new.
There is only one Lord, one faith, and one baptism via the Holy Ghost!
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body...(1 Cor. 12:13).
Back at post #434, I posted this in response to the Mat. 28:19 comment:
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Mat. 28:18-20).
What are the action words in that passage (v. 19)?
There are only two action words = go and preach. When the disciples obey the commands to go and to preach, then the result is that people get baptized and taught. The disciples are NOT told to baptize anyone. Rather, baptizing is what takes place EVERY TIME someone receives the truth of what they preach.
So baptism is never a one-off. Baptizing happens to someone EVERY TIME he receives the truth.
actions of men = go and preach;
results of Holy Spirit = taught and baptized
* preaching the gospel = baptizing *
Also, in that cited passage above (Mat. 28:19), it is WE who make yet another ASSUMPTION; we "just add water" i.e. we ASSUME that the "baptism" spoken of is of water!!!
Another assumption was that speaking in tongues was of the Holy Spirit whereas the reality is that the teachings of Jesus are of the Holy Spirit.
Other false assumptions: Torah worship; Moses worship; Paul worship.
* truth (teachings of Jesus) vs. false assumptions (e.g. water baptism) *
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh [e.g. water baptism and other traditions of men] profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life (John 6:63).
What Jesus taught is his true Holy Spirit. You cannot know the Holy Spirit of Jesus without having the words he spoke. People know Jesus' name and ancestry, but they don't know his teachings or beliefs. So they do not and cannot have his Spirit. But if I preach, I am covering/baptizing/immersing you in his Spirit. People receive the Holy Spirit every time they believe something Jesus said.
The Holy Spirit is not visible, as water or tongues is. Jesus told Nicodemus: the wind blows wherever; you hear it but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it's going. You can't put the wind (or the Spirit) in a box (or a font).
After all the lip lifting and jaw jacking, it's not my job to convict anyone but to declare the truth. Formerly, the ritual of water baptism was not on my radar, but recently I was compelled to dive into the matter (pun intended). It was truly a watershed moment (pun intended) when I was rescued from the bondage of all things "water baptism".
This post is for the few who will not reactively spout off (pun intended) with their programmed responses but will take all their thoughts captive to Christ. That is the best "choice to make". To those, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
.
Ok! Had a restful sleep, and so we carry on...
The first believers got it slightly wrong - water baptism is a trick, a test, built into the gospel.
Worldwide, churches of all shapes and sizes teach people to be baptized in water. It's hard to get two of them to agree on exactly how it's supposed to be done,
whether you baptize in the name of Jesus, or in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost;
whether you sprinkle or pour water on people, or dunk them in the water;
whether it's done in a pool inside a church, or in a river;
who does it;
what the person doing it needs to believe in order for it to be valid;
whether you tip the person backward, or forward, when putting them under the water;
how old the person needs to be before you can baptize them;
what to do if the person backslides after being baptized;
whether the Holy Spirit comes into a person before, during, or after the water baptism...
The list goes on and on. There have been more divisions in the church over water baptism than over any other teaching in the Holy Bible or out of it.
Paul is the first person to have seen through this confusion to the truth behind it.
People were arguing over who had baptized them. Paul had baptized only a small handful of people, but soon realized that Jesus never meant for us to baptize people in water:
For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chl-oe that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. (1 Cor. 1:11-17).
Here's another oft-missed clue:
And [Jesus] said unto [his disciples], Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized [in the Spirit, NOT water baptized] shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned [IOW, belief results in spiritual baptism unto salvation; unbelief results in damnation (water baptism is irrelevant)]...And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word [NOT with water baptisms] with signs following. Amen. (Mark 16:15-16, 20).
The understanding of baptism has been messed up and distorted from antiquity. The result has been not unlike the parable of the sower, where two different seeds were sown but only one produced fruit. And such rituals of men are easy to fake. There is something far more satisfying than being dunked in water. God says that he wants obedience more than sacrifice (1 Sam. 15:22).
Water baptism was a Jewish ritual, a Hebrew practice. There is nothing uniquely Christian about water baptism. The disciples did baptize in water, but Jesus did not do it (John 4:2). Water baptism is inconsistent with the Spirit of everything else that Jesus taught. Most of Jesus' enemies were circumcised; most were baptized!
...I [John] indeed baptize you [the multitude] with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire (Luke 3:16).
What of Jesus' baptism? John protested:
But John forbade [Jesus], saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? (Mat. 3:14).
Jesus was the perfect spotless Lamb of God; he didn't need his sins washed away. Rather, Jesus asked John to accommodate him, because it made sense for them "to fulfill all righteousness". So John went ahead and baptized Jesus. The end of the old, and the start of the new.
So what does "to fulfill all righteousness" mean?
Well, Jesus was born into a Jewish family; circumcised at 8 days of age; taken to the temple at 12 years of age; raised in all the disciplines of the Jewish religion. And now he does this one final Jewish ritual, marking the end of his Jewishness and the start of a deeper revelation.
Jesus came to replace, fulfill, render useless, the law of Moses:
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it (Luke 16:16). Out with the old, in with the new.
There is only one Lord, one faith, and one baptism via the Holy Ghost!
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body...(1 Cor. 12:13).
Back at post #434, I posted this in response to the Mat. 28:19 comment:
Context is everything. Here is the passage:
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Mat. 28:18-20).
What are the action words in that passage (v. 19)?
There are only two action words = go and preach. When the disciples obey the commands to go and to preach, then the result is that people get baptized and taught. The disciples are NOT told to baptize anyone. Rather, baptizing is what takes place EVERY TIME someone receives the truth of what they preach.
So baptism is never a one-off. Baptizing happens to someone EVERY TIME he receives the truth.
actions of men = go and preach;
results of Holy Spirit = taught and baptized
* preaching the gospel = baptizing *
Also, in that cited passage above (Mat. 28:19), it is WE who make yet another ASSUMPTION; we "just add water" i.e. we ASSUME that the "baptism" spoken of is of water!!!
Another assumption was that speaking in tongues was of the Holy Spirit whereas the reality is that the teachings of Jesus are of the Holy Spirit.
Other false assumptions: Torah worship; Moses worship; Paul worship.
* truth (teachings of Jesus) vs. false assumptions (e.g. water baptism) *
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh [e.g. water baptism and other traditions of men] profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life (John 6:63).
What Jesus taught is his true Holy Spirit. You cannot know the Holy Spirit of Jesus without having the words he spoke. People know Jesus' name and ancestry, but they don't know his teachings or beliefs. So they do not and cannot have his Spirit. But if I preach, I am covering/baptizing/immersing you in his Spirit. People receive the Holy Spirit every time they believe something Jesus said.
The Holy Spirit is not visible, as water or tongues is. Jesus told Nicodemus: the wind blows wherever; you hear it but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it's going. You can't put the wind (or the Spirit) in a box (or a font).
So was circumcision.
Indeed, as we witness how most will react to this perceived attack on their cherished tradition of water baptism. Alas, the traditions of men bring death.
After all the lip lifting and jaw jacking, it's not my job to convict anyone but to declare the truth. Formerly, the ritual of water baptism was not on my radar, but recently I was compelled to dive into the matter (pun intended). It was truly a watershed moment (pun intended) when I was rescued from the bondage of all things "water baptism".
This post is for the few who will not reactively spout off (pun intended) with their programmed responses but will take all their thoughts captive to Christ. That is the best "choice to make". To those, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
.
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Verse 17. Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Apparently they did receive the Holy Ghost, but why at first they didn't receive the Holy Ghost?
Go for it, Truly...
I'll have to think about this one, I only see three places where this occurs
First here, where these believed but did not receive the Holy Ghost until the laying on of hands
Acts 8
[17] Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Secondly, with Paul who also believed (and was a chosen vessel of Jesus Christ) but he also did not receive the Holy Ghost until the laying on of hands by Ananias here
Acts 9
[17] And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Thirdly, these which believed having been baptized unto John's baptism (who himself, actually had the Holy Ghost from his mothers womb) and preached the Christ, who would come after him would baptize them in the Holy Ghost and fire but they tell Paul they had not even heard of the Holy Ghost (?)
Acts 19
[6] And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
That's all I see in a nutshell, which isn't much
So much for leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ here lol
Edit: typo
That's what took place on the day of Pentecost, as prophesied John the Baptist to the Israelites.
When he was calling for repentance and water baptizing them in the beginning.
This is no baptism but judgement of the unbelievers who loved darkness of the world than the Light of the Gospel.
Will make it simple for you, thanks.
Meaning, in this world we have the 'church'(wheat) of the Kingdom of GOD, and the 'world'(chaff) of the kingdom of satan.
Both are harvested at the same time and separated, the 'wheat' on one side and the 'chaff' on the other.
Meaning, both the 'church' and the 'world' will be brought together on the final judgement day of our Lord Jesus Christ. And separated, the 'church' on one side and the 'world' on the other.
Therefore the gathered 'wheat' will be stored in the warehouse, while the gathered 'chaff' are burnt off.
Meaning, the 'church' will be placed in Heaven while the 'world' will be cast into hell, the lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Shalom from the FATHER because of our Lord Jesus Christ
Really admire your persistence to know and get it right being a child of GOD, as i once was babes in Christ in the beginning.
Even you've quoted scriptures to reason out and find the answer, patience, for reading the scripture one time or two, we can miss out on the very point been always there.
That's normal, been there done that, for it took me few more reading when i came across the same passage, to get the answer.
Now, the verse 16 you quoted, they did not receive, try reading the verse 15 before that, and the verse 17 after, the answer is within, thank you
Thanks for your response Fred J. Thats a tad split up in a way I might have a harder time keeping the flow of the conversation, but I'll do my best. So you see being baptized with the Holy Spirit and fire, as the Holy Spirit and with fiery tongues, whereas I might see it as Holy Spirit and firey trials. I would see the one (tongues) wrapped into the other (The Holy Ghost) simply because the same comes out of the presense of the other
For example, here
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
And here,
Acts 19:16 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
I understand the baptism of John is by water and the other by the Holy Ghost (through belief in Jesus Christ) but with fire also I regard as the trials that come to us to try our faith (tried as by fire). Even as Jesus Christ was not tried (as he is called a "tried stone) until after he was both water baptized and Holy Ghost baptized, after which he was driven into the wilderness to be tried. That is how I am somewhat catching it.
Because its considered a baptism, but the tongues came out of the Holy Ghost (as the above scriptures show us)
Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire
Fire in the sense of, maybe Mark 9:49
Mark 9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
Or, a fire that come as a fiery trial which is to try you.
1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
which is very specific to our faith, which is said to be tried with fire
1Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ
Being brought through the fire, or sifted as wheat, in that sense.
The reason why I asked, is because some believe its the Holy Spirit and tongues of fire (or something like that) and others I have actually heard believe its the Holy Spirit and being baptized into the lake of fire(!?). But what if its the Holy Spirit (keeping the tongues under him) and with fire (in sofar as a fire or firey trial that come to try your faith). Because there is nothing really to "try" before this faith comes.
Or similarly, as he speaks of fire
Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
Luke 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
Or we could just link it to the next verse of the original context and leave it (disregarding any of the above)
Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire
Matt 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Which would mean detaching the Holy Ghost from the fire altogether and applying it to the chaff altogether (where you would lose your firey tongues) and I would lose my fiery trials, and the chaff gets all the fire.
I can experiment with the process of elimination. I'll give you the last word on it if you have one.
I did read the same (both before and after) but it would still remain that
Acts 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
So it would be one of three places where we see this correct? What would I be missing?
Hold your horses 'Truly', i can 'see' the 'zeal' in you, but let's not go ahead of Christ and His teaching/word, cause we'll only make a mess.
Study carefully, the 3 fires are not the same, i already specify in my replies, so go with that flow, thank you.
I'll have to tackle this sometime, but for now, I am going to have to set it aside and return to it later. Please continue without me for now
And thanks for the discussion @Fred J
You're missing the point which is in verse 15 & 17.
Let me break it down for you, the Apostles at Jerusalem heard that the people in Samaria had received the word of GOD.
And they sent Peter and John, and when they arrived, they 'prayed' for them that they might receive the Holy Ghost.
Since the Holy Ghost did not fall on any one of them, they were only water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
After that, then Peter and John 'laid their hands' on them, and they now received the Holy Ghost.
Okay, why the first time they did not receive the Holy Ghost?
The common answer i happened to receive is, seems like not every one receives the Holy Ghost, therefore just water baptize them, is fine.
This answer is from an unlearned and unstable who 'twist' the teachings and also the scriptures, to their own destruction. (2Peter3:16&17)
Due to the error of someone, other believers believe such and totally miss out on the blessing of the Holy Ghost.
Now, the first time Peter and John 'prayed' for the believers of Samaria that they may receive the holy Ghost, they did not receive.
But after water baptizing them, then Peter and John 'laid their hands' on them, and they receive the Holy Ghost.
I believe Peter and John learnt something from this event that day, and is a lesson for us church until today.
Therefore 'praying' for a believer that one might receive the Holy Ghost, will certainly not receive Him.
But after a believer in the name of Lord Jesus, is water baptized thus in the name of the FATHER, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
Once out of the water, then 'laying hands' on that believer, grants the believer to receive the Holy Ghost.
Truly and readers, do you get the point?
Thank you and shalom in the name of Jesus Christ.
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mailmandan
Well-Known Member
When the gospel spread to the Samaritans in Acts 8, the receiving of the Holy Spirit was delayed until Peter and John could be present and lay hands on them and then there would be no question that the Samaritan believers had received the Holy Spirit and they were now a part of the body of Christ along with the Jewish believers.
The Jews and Samaritans had been hostile towards each other for generations and the laying on of hands by the apostles would authenticate God's purpose in accepting the Samaritan believers into the body of Christ along with Jewish believers and promote church unity.
The Jews and Samaritans had been hostile towards each other for generations and the laying on of hands by the apostles would authenticate God's purpose in accepting the Samaritan believers into the body of Christ along with Jewish believers and promote church unity.
"The first believers got it slightly wrong..." Lol
The Letter of Barnabas
“Regarding [baptism], we have the evidence of Scripture that Israel would refuse to accept the washing which confers the remission of sins and would set up a substitution of their own instead [Ps. 1:3–6]. Observe there how he describes both the water and the cross in the same figure. His meaning is, ‘Blessed are those who go down into the water with their hopes set on the cross.’ Here he is saying that after we have stepped down into the water, burdened with sin and defilement, we come up out of it bearing fruit, with reverence in our hearts and the hope of Jesus in our souls” (Letter of Barnabas 11:1–10 [A.D. 74]).
Hermas
“‘I have heard, sir,’ said I, ‘from some teacher, that there is no other repentance except that which took place when we went down into the water and obtained the remission of our former sins.’ He said to me, ‘You have heard rightly, for so it is’” (The Shepherd 4:3:1–2 [A.D. 80]).Ignatius of Antioch
“Let none of you turn deserter. Let your baptism be your armor; your faith, your helmet; your love, your spear; your patient endurance, your panoply” (Letter to Polycarp 6 [A.D. 110]).
They got it wrong but you got it right? Notice the years and Ignatius especially was a disciple of the apostles but they got it wrong.
soberxp
Well-Known Member
Perhaps in the eyes of God, the great teacher, the sense of ritual is important...
soberxp
Well-Known Member
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