What Does it Mean…..?

[Aunty Jane]

I can tell you may not be familiar with prophecies, or how to read them.

HT, we are familiar with all the prophesies, as we study them carefully. I cannot speak for @TazzJazz, but just because someone has a different interpretation to yourself, doesn’t make you right. I hope you understand this very important point.....Jesus is the judge and he will determine who is right and who is not.

Matt 7:21-23 makes it clear that those whom Jesus rejects at the judgment are confident of their position.....so sure in fact, that they try to convince Jesus that they are his disciples because of what they believe and practice.....yet the stinging rejection comes with the words...”I NEVER KNEW YOU, GET AWAY FROM ME YOU WORKERS OF LAWLESSNESS”.

Confidence can be entirely misplaced. God allows us to keep what we have chosen as our truth, even if it is delusional....he does so to catch us in the act of being who we truly are. (2 Thess 2:9-12)

If you come back, try again - include the prophecy of Psalm 118 and explain how it is yet to be fulfilled.

The prophesy in Psalm 118 is the same as all the other prophesies about Jesus and Israel......it’s not literal Israel who will enjoy the fulfilment, but spiritual Israel.....which began when Jesus spoke of their abandonment and a new “Israel” came into existence.

The “holy land” is no longer holy to God, as it is drenched in innocent blood. “Heavenly Jerusalem” is where God’s rulership will come from, bringing redeemed humanity under the care and control of their rightful Sovereign, who appointed his son as our king. A “bride” was chosen for Christ by his Father, and together they will undo all that the devil has done on this earth to turn mankind away from Jehovah.

Reconciliation with God has to come first, otherwise no human could ever stand before God without a mediator. Jesus is that appointed mediator for now, and he and his “bride” will bring the human race back into a fit condition for worshipping their Grand Creator, removing the sin that acted as a barrier between us and our God. Only when that is accomplished will he hand back rulership to his God and Father. (1 Cor 15:19-28) Earthly Jerusalem is no longer a holy place, fit for the global administration of God’s Kingdom. (Isa 1:15)

You may have confidence that you know what others do not, but as you said....”that could apply to every member of this forum”.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Bring his word of s-word

The sword is not a literal one, but a divider of people as Jesus said....”Do not think I came to bring peace to the earth; I came to bring, not peace, but a sword. 35  For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36  Indeed, a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. 37  Whoever has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and whoever has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me.”

So family opposition was to be expected as the Christians divided off from the apostate Jewish system.

The “sword” was spiritual, as no Christian could ever take up weapons, even against their enemies. (Matt 5:43-44; Romans 12:17-21)

 

[IndianaRob]

Why do Christians need to be “born again”? What does it result in?

How would you answer? With Scripture of course….

Christians need to be born again to see and enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Being born again results in Christ in you.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

 

[Hiddenthings]

The prophesy in Psalm 118 is the same as all the other prophesies about Jesus and Israel......it’s not literal Israel who will enjoy the fulfilment, but spiritual Israel.....which began when Jesus spoke of their abandonment and a new “Israel” came into existence.

The prophecies you (your community) have decided to ignore are some of the most important regarding the future word of Christ and the Saints in the Earth.

I've provided this before but you discount it as having past...which reveals your knowledge of God isnt what it should be!

"Behold, the days are coming," says Yahweh, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand and led them out of the land of Egypt—the covenant they broke, even though I was a faithful husband to them," says the Lord. "But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares Yahweh. "I will put My law within them and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No longer will they teach each other, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know Me, from the least to the greatest," says Yahweh. "For I will forgive their wickedness and remember their sins no more." Jer 31

Notice both houses!
Notice it becomes One House!

What happened?
When has this happened?
When will it happen?

The reason you do not know is because your community has explained away many prophecies to their own hurt.

All I am doing is bringing this to your attention Jane

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Aunty Jane

The JW's (and others) claim that the prophecy in Jeremiah 31 about the New Covenant was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost following Jesus' Ascension.

They point to this prophecy, which speaks of the forgiveness of sins, and mistakenly conclude that the covenant was made with Israel and Judah at that time. They confuse the establishment of the covenant’s power, which began at Pentecost, with the actual making of the covenant with the twelve tribes. The reality is, the covenant came into effect after its dedication fifty days prior, but it was not yet fully established with Israel. @dak

Paul refers to this prophecy not to show its fulfillment, but to prove that the Mosaic Covenant was imperfect and needed to be replaced by the New Covenant. Additionally, Paul uses it to demonstrate that the New Covenant, through the blood of Christ, perfected forever those who are sanctified, meaning there is no longer any need for repeated sacrifices for sin, as there was under the old system.

It is strange that, in the face of clear facts, some would insist this prophecy was fulfilled. How could the New Covenant have been made with the House of Israel on Pentecost when the people were scattered, far from Palestine, in places like Parthia? While there were Israelites there, admitting a few individuals of a nation to covenant privileges does not equate to making the covenant with the entire nation.

Although some Jews accepted the faith and received the Holy Spirit, thereby having God’s laws written on their hearts, the House of Judah as a whole rejected the covenant. This rejection happened because it was offered to them in the name of Jesus, with His blood testifying to its purification. Furthermore, the apostolic age was not the time prophesied for the covenant’s national acceptance.

The prophecy says, "After those days," and the question is, after which days? In the previous verses (Jer. 31:29), it speaks of the coming days when God will restore Israel and Judah. "Behold, the days are coming," says the Lord, "when I will sow the House of Israel and the House of Judah with the seed of man and the seed of beast." This means that after the days of judgment, when Israel was plucked up and destroyed, the Lord will watch over them to build and plant once again.

In those days, they will no longer say, "The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge." Instead, each person will be accountable for their own sins. The New Covenant will be made after these days of rebuilding and planting. As Ezekiel prophesied, "They shall be one kingdom under the second David, their eternal King."

Now, I've had JW's say "Jesus Christ, the Son of David and Son of God, will never return to this cursed, sin-polluted earth to reign over the Jews in old Jerusalem. Israel is permanently scattered and broken, and will rise no more."

But I say: "Thus says the Lord, who gives the sun for light by day and the moon and stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea and makes its waves roar—His name is the Lord of Hosts. If these ordinances depart from before Me, then the seed of Israel will cease to be a nation before Me forever." Just as the sun and moon cannot cease, so too will Israel never be completely cast off.

They who deny such things do not know Yahweh of Israel or of The Lord Jesus Christ.

The prophecy continues "Behold, the days are coming, when Jerusalem shall be rebuilt to the Lord, from the tower of Hananeel to the corner gate, with a measuring line stretching out over the hill of Gareb to Goath. The valley of dead bodies, ashes, and all the fields to the brook Kidron will be holy to the Lord, and it will never be plucked up or thrown down again."

@Aunty Jane - you cannot answer these prophecies while you remain in a community which denies the very Words of God
@dak - you cannot cling to the Old Covenant which is past, set aside, taken out of the way and hope to enjoy the blessing of the New.

 

[Aunty Jane]

@Hiddenthings I believe that much is hidden from you....you can believe whatever you wish and it has nothing to do with me. I know what I believe and why I believe it....

You are expecting something that the Bible shows will never happen. Literal Israel have been replaced by those who actually obey their God by following the teachings of his son.

Only a “remnant” of natural Israel was going to be saved, according to Isaiah, and that was backed up by the apostle Paul. (Rom 9:27)
Only a remnant of natural Israel accepted Jesus as Messiah, so God then “turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name “. (Acts 15:14) This is what happened, whether you accept it or not, the Kingdom will rule from heaven, not literal Jerusalem, because the place is polluted and Christianity is not a Middle Eastern religion, centered in literal Jerusalem....it is a global religion, which will be ruled from heaven by Christ and his elect. This is what the Scriptures teach.....this is what I believe.

Stop being so pushy as if you know what no ones else does. You have a twisted interpretation of Scripture IMO....and you are welcome to it....

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Hiddenthings I believe that much is hidden from you....you can believe whatever you wish and it has nothing to do with me. I know what I believe and why I believe it....

You are expecting something that the Bible shows will never happen. Literal Israel have been replaced by those who actually obey their God by following the teachings of his son.

Only a “remnant” of natural Israel was going to be saved, according to Isaiah, and that was backed up by the apostle Paul. (Rom 9:27)
Only a remnant of natural Israel accepted Jesus as Messiah, so God then “turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name “. (Acts 15:14) This is what happened, whether you accept it or not, the Kingdom will rule from heaven, not literal Jerusalem, because the place is polluted and Christianity is not a Middle Eastern religion, cantered in literal Jerusalem....it is a global religion, which will be ruled from heaven by Christ and his elect. This is what the Scriptures teach.....this is what I believe.

Stop being so pushy as if you know what no ones else does. You have a twisted interpretation of Scripture IMO....and you are welcome to it....

Not just Jeremiah 31 Jane!

"As surely as I live, declares the Lord God, with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fierce wrath, I will rule over you . I will bring you out from among the nations and gather you from the countries where you are scattered. I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there I will confront you face to face, just as I did with your ancestors in the wilderness of Egypt. I will judge you there, says the Lord God. I will make you pass under the rod and bring you into the bond of the covenant. @dak I will purge from among you those who are rebellious and those who have transgressed against Me. I will remove them from the land where they live, and they will not enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord." (Ezek. 20:33-38)

I understand that you may not grasp these matters, Jane, and it's not your fault, it's the blind guides who led you into error who are at fault.

Notice how these themes go straight to the core of truly 'knowing' Jehovah or not.

All I can do is encourage you to see the whole revelation of God and not the small part you have.

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Aunty Jane is it that your God has failed, or have you failed your God?

That seems to go to the core of our discussion.

My God will not and has not failed!

 

[Muna]

Question, I'snt what is written in Jeremiah 31:31 referred to in Hebrews 8:8?

 

[Hiddenthings]

Question, Isn't what is written in Jeremiah 31:31 referred to in Hebrews 8:8?

Yes.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Question, I'snt what is written in Jeremiah 31:31 referred to in Hebrews 8:8?

But the ministry that Jesus has received is far superior to theirs, just as the covenant He mediates is superior to the old one. And this new covenant is built on better promises.

@dak how so?

This comparison highlights three key points:

1. A "better" ministry.
2. A "better" covenant.
3. "Better" promises.

In every aspect whether it's the high priestly ministry of Christ, the new covenant He establishes, or the promises that this new covenant secures the old covenant fades in comparison to the greater excellence of the new.

Ministry: The Greek word leitourgia (used here) appears frequently in the Septuagint (LXX) and again in Hebrews 9:21. In the New Testament, this term is often spiritualized to refer to Christian ministry, as seen in 2 Corinthians 9:12 and Philippians 2:17, 30. However, in Luke 1:23, it retains its original sense of sacred service.

Mediator: The Greek word mesites is used here for the first time and later appears in Hebrews 9:15 and 12:24 (and also in 1 Timothy 2:5). It means more than just a "middleman." It refers to the one who accomplishes salvation and is closer in meaning to a "guarantor," as seen in Hebrews 7:22, where Christ is described as "the guarantee of a better covenant."

Founded: The word nomotheteo—meaning "legally enacted" appears in Hebrews 7:11 when referring to the Mosaic law. The new covenant, like the old, carries the same binding authority in God's will, but it is established on better terms.

Better Promises: This points to the superior content of the new covenant, highlighted in the upcoming quotation from Jeremiah 31. It also refers to promises like "true sabbath rest" (Hebrews 4:3, 9), an unshakable kingdom (Hebrews 12:28), and the heavenly Jerusalem (Hebrews 12:22) coming to Earth!

 

[Muna]

Yes.

So wouldn't this be speaking of Jesus the mediator of the New covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34 quoted verses by verse in Hebrews 8:8-12?

[6] But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
[7] For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
[8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (Jeremiah 31:31)
[9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. (Jeremiah 31:32)
[10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (Jeremiah 31:33)
[11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
[12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. (Jeremiah 31:34)
[13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Since, as we know,

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

 

[Muna]

But the ministry that Jesus has received is far superior to theirs, just as the covenant He mediates is superior to the old one. And this new covenant is built on better promises.

I agree, but I might be misunderstanding post #65 seeing that Jeremiah is quoted in Hebrews speaking of that same New covennt there.

 

[Hiddenthings]

I agree, but I might be misunderstanding post #65 seeing that Jeremiah is quoted in Hebrews speaking of that same New covennt there.

Correct, Jeremiah 31 is in relation to God writing it on the House of Israel....still future!

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Truly

What Does it Mean…..?

I can tell you may not be familiar with prophecies, or how to read them. HT, we are familiar with all the prophesies, as we study them carefully. I cannot speak for @TazzJazz, but just because someone has a different interpretation to yourself, doesn’t make you right. I hope you understand this...

www.christianityboard.com

How do we know for certain this prophecy is still unfulfilled?

 

[Muna]

Correct, Jeremiah 31 is in relation to God writing it on the House of Israel....still future!

But why is Hebrews 8:8-13 quoting Jeremiah 31:31-34 as something in the present in Jesus Christ?

 

[Hiddenthings]

But why is Hebrews 8:8-13 quoting Jeremiah 31:31-34 as something in the present in Jesus Christ?

Since the writer speaks of a new covenant, the first one is rendered obsolete. What is becoming obsolete and aging is on the verge of passing away.

From here on, it’s all about the New Covenant.

Israel was offered it first, then the Gentiles, and eventually, God will complete His work with both natural Israel and the nations.

You didn’t think the New Covenant was nullified after Christ’s ascension, did you? God is still calling people to it today!

 

[Muna]

Isn't Peter adressing both houses here

Acts 2:14 Ye men of Judaea
And
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel

 

[Hiddenthings]

Isn't Peter adressing both houses here

Acts 2:14 Ye men of Judaea
And
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel

Yes but not unified and they rejected it - unfinished business!

 

[Muna]

Since the writer speaks of a new covenant, the first one is rendered obsolete. What is becoming obsolete and aging is on the verge of passing away.

From here on, it’s all about the New Covenant.

Israel was offered it first, then the Gentiles, and eventually, God will complete His work with both natural Israel and the nations.

You didn’t think the New Covenant was nullified after Christ’s ascension, did you? God is still calling people to it today!

Staying with the scripture only, I can read what it says, Jeremiah is quoted in Hebrews and I was asking about this.