Elijah shall come before Christ?

[Wick Stick]

Yes, and you can see a picture of the two (John and Jesus) even in Elijah and Elisha also. Even as Elijah goes before Elisha and find many comparisons between them there.

That's the pattern...

After Moses, Joshua
After Elijah, Elisha
After John, Yeshua

Shua is Hebrew for "saves"

 

[Muna]

Chiming in here . . . "so I don't smite the earth with a curse" is the way I understand this.

Malachi 4:5-6 LITV
5) Behold, I am sending you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of Jehovah.
6) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the sons, and the heart of the sons to their fathers, that I not come and strike the earth with utter destruction.

My thinking is that Elijah - either the man, or someone with his "spirit and power" as was John the baptist - will be with those Israelites who fled to the wilderness, preparing a people for their Groom.

Much love!

Thanks marks, let me ask you this then, do you catch a sort of patern between Elijah/ and or John who went before Elisha and /or Jesus? Because I was looking at the part that pertains to John (in Elijah) to turn the hearts of the children to the fathers , or as Luke 1:16 speaks, And he (John) shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. But it leaves out the part in the latter part of Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. But it does show in the patern between them that it was Elisha (who follows after Elijah) cursing the mocking children of the city in 2Kings 2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

Now it doesn't speak of cursing the people there, but of smiting the earth itself with a curse, but then there is Elisha (following after Elijah) being mocked, and he cursed the in the name of the LORD. The one reference to "cursed children" so to speak is in 2 Peter 2:14. As far as children go, John said to them

Matt 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

And I could go from there, but I was looking for is the correct way to catch the cursing in Christ as far as the children of the city go, in some way. So I thought I would put out the question in case someone else might be catching it (in somewhat of the same line of thinking).

I am still not convinced yet on that part, although all the others have seemed to come together between them, I was just curious.

 

[marks]

And I could go from there, but I was looking for is the correct way to catch the cursing in Christ as far as the children of the city go, in some way. So I thought I would put out the question in case someone else might be catching it (in somewhat of the same line of thinking).

I see how you are placing these in parallel, however, I don't think it's meant to be that way, myself.

Much love!

 

[Muna]

Jeremiah 44:8 (AMP)
“Why do you [deliberately] provoke Me to anger with the works (idols) of your hands, burning sacrifices and incense to [make-believe] gods in the land of Egypt, where you [of your own accord] have come to live [as temporary residents], that you might be cut off and become a curse and a disgrace [an object of taunts] among all the nations of the earth?

This is Him smiting the earth with a curse. The continued daispora.

I said exactly what I said, not what you said.

But wasn't the prophecy in Malachi 4:5 be speaking of John (Luke 1:17) as the one coming in the spirit and power of Elijah, And so "he (John) shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."

Because it does show Elisha (who follows aftet Elijah) even as Jesus comes after John was the one that turned back and cursed these mocking children

2 Kings 2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

 

[Muna]

I see how you are placing these in parallel, however, I don't think it's meant to be that way, myself.

Much love!

No problem, still trying to work it out, and I cannot say yet I have, and I typically do not put things out there until I do, so I will wait on this one some more.

 

[Muna]

That's the pattern...

After Moses, Joshua
After Elijah, Elisha
After John, Yeshua

Shua is Hebrew for "saves"

Yes, Amen! Thanks Wick Stick

 

[marks]

Because it does show Elisha (who follows aftet Elijah) even as Jesus comes after John was the one that turned back and cursed these mocking children

2 Kings 2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

John 1:17 LITV
For the Law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Elisha was of the Law and the Prophets, God's covenant with Israel, "All you say we will do". Jesus came bringing a new covenant.

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

It's a mystery because Jesus juxtaposed a future-tense fulfillment with a past-tense fulfillment ("Elijah truly shall come and shall restore all things" is not "Elijah has already come")

- and when the Pharisees asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah he said "I am not."

21 And they asked him, What then? Are you Elijah? And he says, I am not. Are you that prophet? And he answered, No.
22 Then they said to him, Who are you so that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say of yourself?
23 He said, I am "the voice of one crying in the wilderness: Make straight the way of the Lord," as the prophet Isaiah said.
24 And they who were sent were from the Pharisees.
25 And they asked him and said, Why then do you baptize, if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor that Prophet? -- John 1.

On the Mount of configuration they did not see Moses and John the Baptist talking with Jesus, hence their confusion and their question as they were coming down from the mountain - and they all knew who John the Baptist was.

But few question why Jesus did not simply say, "Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but have done to him whatever they desired. Likewise also the Son of man shall suffer from them."

But Jesus didn't simply say that. He said, "Elijah truly shall come and shall restore all things, and then He said that Elijah has come already.

Both Jesus and the apostles spoke of the Kingdom of Christ that shall come.
Both Jesus and the apostles spoke of the Kingdom of Christ that has already come.

If John the Baptist is the one and only fulfillment of the prophecy then there is also no Kingdom of Christ that shall come, because the prophecy in Malachi is linked to the coming of the Kingdom of God and the Day of the LORD.

Most of the replies here reflect the fact that the church traditionally - and most Christians across all generations since Jesus - come to hasty conclusions about a lot of stuff, though at least one person here mentioned the fact that it was not before* the coming of the Day of the LORD that John the Baptist came.

* paniym

* The wording of Malachi 4:1-2 and 5-6 is similar to that of John the Baptist in Matthew 3:10-12 - and it's because of Jesus' sacrifice for our sins that the earth was not smitten with a curse

- but that does not answer our questions, and IMO it's just Christianeze over-hasty interpretation which typically lacks thoughtful consideration that ignores the questions, claiming that "Jesus said" (Jesus said "it's John the Baptist") when

(a) That is not all that Jesus said about the prophecy and its fulfillment; and
(b) Nor is it what John the Baptist himself said when they asked him if he was Elijah; and
(c) Nor was it Moses and John the Baptist who appeared with Jesus on the Mount of transfiguration; and
(d) Nor was it the Day of the LORD in the sense of God's Day of judgment.

So to me it's a mystery and I therefore leave open the possibility that it may yet be fulfilled again - but by Elijah and not by someone coming in the spirit and power of Elijah

- except that like the religious leaders and many of the Jews of Jesus's day, many Christians and their religious leaders will reject him if it's Elijah who indeed shall come and shall restore the hearts of many (not just many Jews) to the true faith of the fathers (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) *

* As a Gentile who does not believe in two Israels I still can't help noticing how many Gentile Christians and their attitudes (and especially their prideful attitudes with regards the failings of the Jews of Jesus' day) is actually very reminiscent of those very same failings.​

Mine is the mystery. The mystery is of this world and its times, whereas the truth from God--"all truth" is of God--according to His timelessness and eternal terms. Thus the need for rightly dividing the word of truth.

The mystery--this mystery in particular--is of this world, and remains a mystery because in all truth all things of God are not of this world, but [were] before the foundation of the world. Therefore, Jesus juxtaposed the matter in contrast regarding the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.

The matter then...begins before the times of this world wherein the former things are revealed, in what most would call "real time"--not even understanding the absurdity of such an interpretation. But those hints--through the glass dimly--they are what is true, only to be fully understood when He who restrains is taken out of the way. This is that time--the time of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound.

 

[Muna]

John 1:17 LITV
For the Law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Elisha was of the Law and the Prophets, God's covenant with Israel, "All you say we will do". Jesus came bringing a new covenant.

Much love!

Abraham was a prophet, but the law has shadows of the good things to come, even shown in Abrahams things

Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

In the above, he is appealing to them to actually HEAR the law concerning desiring to be UNDER the law and brings it to the feet of Abraham in the law to show the thing.

 

[Wick Stick]

Yes, Amen! Thanks Wick Stick

Also, the original quote about Elijah's return was from Zephaniah, so...

We can probably add Joshua (the High Priest at the time Zephaniah wrote his book) to that list.

 

[marks]

Abraham was a prophet, but the law has shadows of the good things to come, even shown in Abrahams things

Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

In the above, he is appealing to them to actually HEAR the law concerning desiring to be UNDER the law and brings it to the feet of Abraham in the law to show the thing.

The rejected son corresponding to those under the Law.

Much love!

 

[Muna]

Also, the original quote about Elijah's return was from Zephaniah, so...

We can probably add Joshua (the High Priest at the time Zephaniah wrote his book) to that list.

You can even see that the two of them in place at the same time were to fulfill all righteousness

Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Mat 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

 

[Muna]

The rejected son corresponding to those under the Law.

Much love!

They appeared to reject the counsel of God as related to John the baptist also

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him. (John 1:31 also)

Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

 

[marks]

They appeared to reject the counsel of God as related to John the baptist also

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him. (John 1:31 also)

Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

This is saying that because they had not been baptized by John, they then went on to reject God's counsel against them. I think of it as a cognitive dissonance in that if they went on to hear God and receive His word, they would have to acknowledge their own evil in rejecting John's baptism.

Matthew here affirms John is the last of the Law and the Prophets.

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

Friends as David Lamb quoted, Jesus himself said John the Baptist is Elijah, and the prophecy is 'fulfilled'.

But why John the Baptist himself said he's not Elijah?

What is missing, is that there is a full cast of characters acting in the revelation of things that actually occurred before the foundation of the world. All of whom have been under restraint and only eluding to "all truth"--even Christ, "until He who restrains is taken out of the way."

This is that time foretold when "the mystery of God would be finished as He declared to His servants the prophets", and it includes many corrections of things once believed, even allowed for a time--until the times are fulfilled.

 

[Muna]

This is saying that because they had not been baptized by John, they then went on to reject God's counsel against them. I think of it as a cognitive dissonance in that if they went on to hear God and receive His word, they would have to acknowledge their own evil in rejecting John's baptism.

Matthew here affirms John is the last of the Law and the Prophets.

Much love!

Jesus is also considered a prophet though

Deut 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. Acts 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. Heb 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after But Jesus himself also said, Matt 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: And so we see here this is so Acts 11:27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.

 

[ScottA]

Malachi 4:6
6) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the sons, and the heart of the sons to their fathers, that I not come and strike the earth with utter destruction.

This specifically refers to our Father God, or Satan.

The coming of Christ diverted the complete annihilation of this world, including all who sin.

 

[marks]

Acts 11:27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.

Are you saying you see these as part of the Law and the Prophets of the covenant with Israel? "All that you say we will do", Israel promised at Mt. Horeb, which is the entirety of the Law and the Prophets.

Matthew 11:13 KJV
For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

This was where Jesus anounced the closing of the Law and the Prophets. "until John", this is the last in the series.

Much love!

 

[marks]

This specifically refers to our Father God, or Satan.

The coming of Christ diverted the complete annihilation of this world, including all who sin.

Elijah comes to turn God's heart toward us? We love Him because He first loved us.

Much love!

 

[Muna]

Are you saying you see these as part of the Law and the Prophets of the covenant with Israel? "All that you say we will do", Israel promised at Mt. Horeb, which is the entirety of the Law and the Prophets.

Matthew 11:13 KJV
For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

This was where Jesus anounced the closing of the Law and the Prophets. "until John", this is the last in the series.

Much love!

I have no idea what you are even talking about here