In Defense of OSAS – Why "Once Saved, Always Saved" Is the Heart of the Gospel

[mailmandan]

The clearest testimony comes from Christ Himself:

> “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.”
— John 10:28

Notice the words: eternal, never, no one. Not even you can snatch yourself from His hand. That’s security, not presumption.

Amen! In John 10:27-28, we read - My sheep hear My voice, (not some of them hear His voice and some of them don't hear His voice) and I know them, (not some of them He knows and some of them He doesn't know) and they follow Me. (not some of them follow Him and some of them don't follow Him) And I give them eternal life, (not some of them He gives eternal life and some of them He doesn't give eternal life) and they shall never perish; (not some of them will never perish and some of them will perish) neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. (not some of them will never be snatched out of His hand and some of them will be snatched out of His hand)

His sheep have eternal security. In CONTRAST with those do not believe and are not His sheep. (John 10:25-26)

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Lets start with this

The clearest testimony comes from Christ Himself:

> “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.”
— John 10:28

You describe that as the "clearest" testimony osas. Fantastic. We dont need to go any furhter. If you persevere to the end you will have eternal life and it will never be taken from you. Absolutely true.

No. That was spoken to Israel, not the body of Christ.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

The message to Israel continues to be a confusion to some:

Matthew 24:13-14
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Compare the above Gospel of the Kingdom with this from Paul:

Ephesians 1:13-14
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

The idea that Matthew 24 was spoken to us who are of the body of Christ is troublesome because of the dichotomy that belief runs into dare one read scripture for what it says. Perseverance verses sealed with Holy Spirit are not synonymous. What good is a seal if it can be removed by sheer will of the individual? What was spoken to Israel in this regard was never repeated by Paul to the body of Christ, and preaching the false doctrine that it was is a failure to rightly divide the word of truth.

BTW

 

[nedsk]

No. That was spoken to Israel, not the body of Christ.

BTW

Because you say so? Not impressive

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Because you say so? Not impressive

Actually, it's not because I said so. If you don't want to take the Lord's own word for it, then you're an authority unto yourself.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Given that He was sent ONLY unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel, He could not have been speaking to Gentiles.

Additionally, your failure to recognize the vast distinction between endurance and being sealed, that too is a problem you will have to try to overcome as yet another item in your system of false beliefs.

Show to me where the Yahshuah ever said to Israel that they were sealed by Holy Spirit and that they had the earnest of Holy Spirit unto salvation, but rather had to endure in their own strength unto the end of their lives in the tribulation to be saved. You can't, which, again, speaks to the inconsistencies in your beliefs.

You're free to continue in your replacement theology beliefs, but Israel is still the Lord's chosen people and at whom the prophecies were aimed.

I have shown time and time again how wrong you are, and you continue in your Gnostic beliefs, which is on your shoulders, not mine or anyone else.

We can discuss all this further to show your error, but your one-liners prove nothing.

BTW

 

[Behold]

Actually, it's not because I said so. If you don't want to take the Lord's own word for it, then you're an authority unto yourself.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Given that He was sent ONLY unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel, He could not have been speaking to Gentiles.

@nedsk is a MaryCult member.

This means that His final authority is "Catholic Church Traditions" .. which does not view the Holy Bible as complete or as their final authority.
So, if you try to teach one of these deceived people a Truth from the Bible that they dont respect as the final authority, then you are just wasting your time., exaclty as they are wasting your time on this Forum.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

@nedsk is a MaryCult member.

This means that His final authority is "Catholic Church Traditions" .. which does not view the Holy Bible as complete or as their final authority.
So, if you try to teach one of these deceived people a Truth from the Bible that they dont respect as the final authority, then you are just wasting your time., exaclty as they are wasting your time on this Forum.

True enough, but by repeating it, some of the lurkers out there can be blessed by the truth of scripture in the place of the false teachings from the RCC religion, the false teachings within Charismaticism and even Evangelicalism that has gone astray.

BTW

 

[Behold]

True enough, but by repeating it, some of the lurkers out there can be blessed by the truth of scripture in the place of the false teachings from the RCC religion, the false teachings within Charismaticism and even Evangelicalism that has gone astray.

BTW

Consider...

that If you really want to capture the lurkers, then dont just wait for them to hopefully find you 10 or 40 pages deep in some Thread......and instread post a Thread related to this Topic.
Do both.
Post Threads that Support "Justificaiton by faith" and Etermal Security that is found 'in Christ"......as this is an incredibly important doctrine, and it needs to be taught a lot more on Forums.

 

[Rockerduck]

Actually, it's not because I said so. If you don't want to take the Lord's own word for it, then you're an authority unto yourself.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Given that He was sent ONLY unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel, He could not have been speaking to Gentiles.

Additionally, your failure to recognize the vast distinction between endurance and being sealed, that too is a problem you will have to try to overcome as yet another item in your system of false beliefs.

Show to me where the Yahshuah ever said to Israel that they were sealed by Holy Spirit and that they had the earnest of Holy Spirit unto salvation, but rather had to endure in their own strength unto the end of their lives in the tribulation to be saved. You can't, which, again, speaks to the inconsistencies in your beliefs.

You're free to continue in your replacement theology beliefs, but Israel is still the Lord's chosen people and at whom the prophecies were aimed.

I have shown time and time again how wrong you are, and you continue in your Gnostic beliefs, which is on your shoulders, not mine or anyone else.

We can discuss all this further to show your error, but your one-liners prove nothing.

BTW

There is no replacement theology. Everyone has to come to the Cross for salvation. Everyone has to accept Christ as their savior to get to heaven now. No exceptions and no short cuts.

 

[IndianaRob]

There is no replacement theology. Everyone has to come to the Cross for salvation. Everyone has to accept Christ as their savior to get to heaven now. No exceptions and no short cuts.

Replacement theology is an oxymoron. You can’t replace something that never existed from the beginning.

 

[Rockerduck]

Replacement theology is an oxymoron. You can’t replace something that never existed from the beginning.

Didn't you say the same thing I said?

 

[IndianaRob]

Didn't you say the same thing I said?

Yes lol. I was backing you up, agreeing with you.

 

[Behold]

Replacement theology is an oxymoron. You can’t replace something that never existed from the beginning.

Replacment theology, initially, is a MaryCult theological invention.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

There is no replacement theology. Everyone has to come to the Cross for salvation. Everyone has to accept Christ as their savior to get to heaven now. No exceptions and no short cuts.

You don't understand the meaning of the concept of "replacement theology." It's has nothing to do with salvation and how we are saved.

BTW

 

[Rockerduck]

You don't understand the meaning of the concept of "replacement theology." It's has nothing to do with salvation and how we are saved.

BTW

I understand how some Christians believe that Christians replaced the Jews as God's chosen people. However, I asked Jesus about this, and He said "everyone is the same in Heaven". That's means everyone who is born again from above is the same in Heaven and that means all people. Jesus said no one comes to the Father except through me. That means everybody, as the Apostle said, neither Jew nor Greek, slave or free,neither male or female, everyone is one in Christ. Galatians 3:28. Therefore, replacement theology does not exist.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

I understand how some Christians believe that Christians replaced the Jews as God's chosen people. However, I asked Jesus about this, and He said "everyone is the same in Heaven". That's means everyone who is born again from above is the same in Heaven and that means all people. Jesus said no one comes to the Father except through me. That means everybody, as the Apostle said, neither Jew nor Greek, slave or free,neither male or female, everyone is one in Christ. Galatians 3:28. Therefore, replacement theology does not exist.

Again, when you make this about salvation, I agree with you in the lack of distinctions under this dispensation of grace. However, in prophecy, Gentiles were, and still are not, the object of prophecies. The middle wall of partition kept that separation intact until the fall of Israel, who will soon be raised back up along with that wall, with Gentiles once again having to join with Israel for their salvation and sharing in the blessings and promises given to Abraham.

BTW

 

[Rockerduck]

Again, when you make this about salvation, I agree with you in the lack of distinctions under this dispensation of grace. However, in prophecy, Gentiles were, and still are not, the object of prophecies. The middle wall of partition kept that separation intact until the fall of Israel, who will soon be raised back up along with that wall, with Gentiles once again having to join with Israel for their salvation and sharing in the blessings and promises given to Abraham.

BTW

Well, I asked Jesus about Jews in the end times, I'm Jewish by the way, and Jesus said He is not guiding what Israel is doing, effectively Jesus told me Israel is flying without a pilot. Which is why Jesus says nobody gets to the Father except through me. Remember what Jesus said, in John 17:9 - I pray for them, I do not pray for the world, but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.

Jesus is looking out for those who belong to Him, not anything of the world. Israel is just like any unsaved country now.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Well, I asked Jesus about Jews in the end times, I'm Jewish by the way, and Jesus said He is not guiding what Israel is doing, effectively Jesus told me Israel is flying without a pilot. Which is why Jesus says nobody gets to the Father except through me. Remember what Jesus said, in John 17:9 - I pray for them, I do not pray for the world, but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.

Jesus is looking out for those who belong to Him, not anything of the world. Israel is just like any unsaved country now.

You have said here basically the same thing I said before, which is that Israel is fallen and partially blinded for now, but only for now until the Lord raises her back up again and reinstates Israel to rule over the world with Christ Jesus at King. She will once again be His bride, much to the hatred of anti-semitic Evangelicals out there who are of the mind that they have replaced Israel. Such foolishness.

As to the Lord allegedly speaking to you personally what is already stated in scripture, that sounds like Charismatic nonsense based on wishful thinking...that the Lord routinely makes up for the lack of real study in scripture. Charismatics are very fond of yammering about allegedly hearing from the Lord the generalities they spout like a bilge pump, never revealing anything earth shakingly relevant to the extent that it comes to pass as proof to all others that they have truly become an oracle of God. He has spoken in His word, and that is sufficient for today. That's not to say the Lord cannot speak to those of His choosing, but spouting what's already written, that's not at all impressive regardless of the fact that you may or may not have been on a mission to impress anyone. Doesn't matter. His word is complete as is.

Blessings

BTW

 

[Rockerduck]

You have said here basically the same thing I said before, which is that Israel is fallen and partially blinded for now, but only for now until the Lord raises her back up again and reinstates Israel to rule over the world with Christ Jesus at King. She will once again be His bride, much to the hatred of anti-semitic Evangelicals out there who are of the mind that they have replaced Israel. Such foolishness.

BTW

Amen

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Then you disagree with Paul.
He, indeed was saying that “severity” was a loss of salvation.

Kindness is reserved for those who remain faithful.
Severity is assigned to those who are cut off.
Rom. 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: SEVERITY toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you too will be CUT OFF.”

Based on what Greek language model? The clear meaning in the context has to do with an entire grouping of people, not individuals in relation to individual salvation. This practice of yours in trying to relegate the text into whatever subjective framework of your choosing is old and worn out. Cults are formed on this same basis of false practice. Please stick to context rather than trying to make scripture conform to personal, warped interpretations.

BTW