The deconstructing of the law in the New Testament

[Sister-n-Christ]

Anti... nomians?

Hopefully you don't mean St Steven. I LOVE St Steven. Not that I don't love all of you, but he makes the most interesting topics, and he's open to considering interpretations other than his own. One of my favorite people here.

You should set a higher bar for what entertains you.

Antinomianism is heresy. And Biblically indefensible.

The laws of God are written on the hearts of the redeemed.
It is impossible for us to then insist God's laws are done away with.

 

[St. SteVen]

Hopefully you don't mean St Steven. I LOVE St Steven. Not that I don't love all of you, but he makes the most interesting topics, and he's open to considering interpretations other than his own. One of my favorite people here.

WOW!
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
I also appreciate the fresh view and interesting insights you bring.
Always challenges EVEN my thinking. Kudos.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

"For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." - John 1:17 NIV

I see many examples of the deconstruction of the law in the New Testament.
It began in the Gospel accounts and continued into the writing of the Apostle Paul.

It began with the forerunner, John the Baptizer, leading the way.
"For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John." - Matthew 11:13 NIV

Until John? Then what?

In Matthew chapter five, Jesus refers to the law as hearsay and challenges it. There are five "You have heard that it was said... but I tell you..." statements.

The most obvious examples are Jesus violating the Sabbath law.
(I'll probably get lots of push-back on that) I'm not claiming that Jesus sinned.

Does anyone else see the signs I am seeing here? Let's discuss.

John 9:16 NIV
Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”
But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.

John 5:18 NIV
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath,
but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

]

 

[Davy]

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

And then those in Christ MUST READ & HEED what Paul ALSO said here...

1 Cor 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV


1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV


Gal 5:16-25
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
KJV

It is OBVIOUS then, that Apostle Paul DID NOT claim Lord Jesus did away with all of God's law upon His cross. Our FLESH is still held to penalty under God's law today, just some judgments not as strong like they were under the old covenant. It is still against God law to do murder, and it can still bring the death penalty. It is still against God's health law to eat outside the list of meats He gave. That doesn't mean we can't eat outside that list, it simply means our flesh body won't be as healthy for not following it. The blood ordinances Jesus nailed to His cross, as with the things under the old covenant. But many commandments, statutes, and judgments in God's law still stands today, and exist for the wicked and those who walk by their flesh.

So don't be deceived by those who wrongly preach the law is dead when they are unaware that they are preaching 'lawlessness' by doing that. We are to reckon ourselves with being in Christ as dead to the law when we walk by The Spirit, and not by our flesh. Thus it is not the law that is dead, it is we that are dead to the law when we remain in our walk with Lord Jesus.

 

[St. SteVen]

It is OBVIOUS then, that Apostle Paul DID NOT claim Lord Jesus did away with all of God's law upon His cross. Our FLESH is still held to penalty under God's law today, just some judgments not as strong like they were under the old covenant. It is still against God law to do murder, and it can still bring the death penalty. It is still against God's health law to eat outside the list of meats He gave. That doesn't mean we can't eat outside that list, it simply means our flesh body won't be as healthy for not following it. The blood ordinances Jesus nailed to His cross, as with the things under the old covenant. But many commandments, statutes, and judgments in God's law still stands today, and exist for the wicked and those who walk by their flesh.

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Behold]

1 Cor 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?

You're just one more duped Legalist who is trying to work your way to heaven by being good enough.
And that can't be done.
Stop anytime you like @Davy .

Also, your verse say that the 'unrighteous" shall not inherit the KOG.
And that is true.

However, the born agian, are already IN THE KOG.......they are already "made righteous"... having become "the righteousness of God in Christ"..
See, the Born again, have already received "God's gift of Righteousness", and are eternally made righteous".

They have received "the imputued righteousness of Christ".., that is "The Gift of Salvation".

 

[Wick Stick]

Does anyone else see the signs I am seeing here? Let's discuss.

John 9:16 NIV
Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”
But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.

John 5:18 NIV
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath,
but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

I disagree with the idea that Jesus was violating the law by breaking the Sabbath.

There is a well-known principle of Judaism, even from before Jesus days, that says that where two commandments conflict, a positive commandment (do this) trumps a negative one (don't do this).

In the passage below, Jesus not only endorses this, but expands on it, making it lawful to do any good deed on Sabbath:

Matthew 12: 10 And, behold, there was a man whose hand had withered. And they asked [Jesus], saying, "Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days?" that they might accuse him. 11 And He said unto them, 'What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift [it] out? 12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.'

 

[jaybird]

i never understood why people want to do away with the laws that Jesus said he did not come to do away with. dont murder other people, why is that so bad?

 

[Muna]

You're just one more duped Legalist who is trying to work your way to heaven by being good enough.
And that can't be done.
Stop anytime you like @Davy .

Also, your verse say that the 'unrighteous" shall not inherit the KOG.
And that is true.

However, the born agian, are already IN THE KOG.......they are already "made righteous"... having become "the righteousness of God in Christ"..
See, the Born again, have already received "God's gift of Righteousness", and are eternally made righteous".

They have received "the imputued righteousness of Christ".., that is "The Gift of Salvation".

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

 

[Behold]

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

No person can "DO" the same righteousness as God., unless you are "made righteous" by God.

So, once you are born again, you are "made righteous". . by the 'imputed righteousness of Christ", .. that is the 'The Gift of Righteousness"..... .so now being "the righteousness of God, in Christ', you can "doeth righteousness".

Now, when you hear some unsaved Legalist talking about trying to keep the law and commandments, as their self effort to try to be accepted by God... = then you are dealing with a person who is self righteous, but not "made righteous".

 

[Muna]

No person can "DO" the same righteousness as God., unless you are "made righteous" by God.

So, once you are born again, you are "made righteous". . by the 'imputed righteousness of Christ", .. that is the 'The Gift of Righteousness"..... .so now being "the righteousness of God, in Christ', you can "doeth righteousness".

Now, when you hear some unsaved Legalist talking about trying to keep the law and commandments, as their self effort to try to be accepted by God... = then you are dealing with a person who is self righteous, but not "made righteous".

John isnt here to hear you bark at him

 

[Muna]

1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Ephes 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous,
even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

[Behold]

John isnt here to hear you bark at him

Your works are never righteous before God, as they are the same works you can do as an unbeliever.

However, the born person, has become "made righteous", so, in this STATE of imputed Righteousness...then God counts them as rightous as they do the good works.

 

[Muna]

Your works are never righteous before God, as they are the same works you can do as an unbeliever.

However, the born person, has become "made righteous", so, in this STATE of imputed Righteousness...then God counts them as rightous as they do the good works.

1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Ephes 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous,
even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

[Behold]

1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

You can't do righteousness, as rightousness is not something you do.
Its soemthing you become, and the fruit of righteousness, is spiritual fruit....not self effort or works... and now that you are become Righteous, as "made righteous"... having received the "Gift of Righteousness", God's Love flows out of the born again Christian.

So, by being righteous, is how we "doeth" it.

Ephes 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

Yes, your verse says its the fruit of the Spirit.......not the fruit of the person.

Paul said, "i can do all things Through Christ".....not through MY DOING.

whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

You can't define "doing righteousness", as some type of self effort., because...... "there is none RIGHTEOUS... no not one".
But the fruit of the Spirit that is inside us.....comes out as Love.
"we love because Christ first love us", and from HIM through US......is Love given out.

 

[Muna]

You can't do righteousness, as rightousness is not something you do.
Its soemthing you become, and the fruit of righteousness, is spiritual fruit....not self effort or works... and now that you are become Righteous, as "made righteous"... having received the "Gift of Righteousness", God's Love flows out of the born again Christian.

So, by being righteous, is how we "doeth" it.




Yes, your verse says its the fruit of the Spirit.......not the fruit of the person.

Paul said, "i can do all things Through Christ".....not through MY DOING.




You can't define "doing righteousness", as some type of self effort., because...... "there is none RIGHTEOUS... no not one".
But the fruit of the Spirit that is inside us.....comes out as Love.
"we love because Christ first love us", and from HIM through US......is Love given out.

I believe the apostles of Jesus Christ preach Jesus so I would think it would be most obvious (and very basic level understanding) that our fruit comes by Jesus one of which is righteousness.

 

[Behold]

I believe the apostles of Jesus Christ preach Jesus so I would think it would be most obvious (and very basic level understanding) that our fruit comes by Jesus one of which is righteousness.

One of the Gnostic heresies is that a person can ... OF THEMSELVES........>"do Righteeousness".....which makes them righteous.

However, this is impossible..... as a unforgiven SINNER, (and "all have sinned".).......has no righteousness, so, there is nothing they can offer that is righteous.

So, we have to be careful when we are listening to people who talk about "doing righteousness", as discipleship, as this is impossible.

But what God makes Possible is for us to be established in HIS Righteousness, by receiving His "Gift of Righteousness" and now being "made righteous'... we are established as "the Righteousness of God, in Christ".

 

[Muna]

One of the Gnostic heresies is that a person can ... OF THEMSELVES........>"do Righteeousness".....which makes them righteous.

However, this is impossible..... as a unforgiven SINNER, (and "all have sinned".).......has no righteousness, so, there is nothing they can offer that is righteous.

So, we have to be careful when we are listening to people who talk about "doing righteousness", as discipleship, as this is impossible.

But what God makes Possible is for us to be established in HIS Righteousness, by receiving His "Gift of Righteousness" and now being "made righteous'... we are established as "the Righteousness of God, in Christ".

I am always careful when I listen the apostle John

 

[St. SteVen]

I disagree with the idea that Jesus was violating the law by breaking the Sabbath.

My claim is that Jesus was deconstructing the law.
If it's not a law, He wasn't breaking it.
He declared that He was Lord of the Sabbath.
It was His call.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

i never understood why people want to do away with the laws that Jesus said he did not come to do away with. dont murder other people, why is that so bad?

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

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