The deconstructing of the law in the New Testament

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Behold

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I think Jewish Christians kept the law because they were Jewish, not because they were Christians.

The only Messianic Jews who try to keep the Law of Moses, are "fallen from Grace".........same as any "Legalist" Gentile Christian.

Gentiles didn't keep the law because they were gentiles.

Gentiles were not given Moses Law, as it was only given to Jews in the OT.

So, when a NT Christian is worrying about "the Law and 10 Commandments" that were given to OT Jews.........you can see the theological train wreck this will produce.

The question about the gentiles and the law came up in Acts chapter 15 and the Jerusalem Council.
The answer was "No!"

No "Christian" is "Under the Law of Moses", they are "Under God's Grace"......so, that is why the Acts 15 group put away Moses Law, when dealing with Christians.
 

Lambano

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I think Jewish Christians kept the law because they were Jewish, not because they were Christians.
Gentiles didn't keep the law because they were gentiles.
Yep. You'll notice that I borrowed N.T. Wright's term, "Identity Markers". Sociologically, that's what circumcision, sabbath and the kosher laws were. Those were the visible things that demarcated Jews from Gentiles in the 1st century Greco-Roman society. From that standpoint, they have nothing to do with following God's commandments. (Though our messianic Jewish brethren would protest vehemently against that.) Thus, Paul could say "In Christ there is no Jew or Greek", because we have a new identity; the old identity with its boundary markers is irrelevant.

So, is Christian praxis in the 21st century merely a set of sociological identity markers to distinguish "Us" from "Them"? Or is trying to follow Christ something deeper?

In my denomination, accepting gay believers is a big issue. That crosses a traditional boundary and puts Us squarely in the "Them" zone, as far as our Evangelical brethren are concerned.
 
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Lambano

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Perhaps, but Jesus could have played the God card if He intended to make them binding.
The word "But" indicates a change of direction.

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40_Mat_07_29.jpg

"Authority" implies that what is taught is normative; that is, binding. That is what prophetic authority is all about. Speaking for God.
 
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St. SteVen

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So, is Christian praxis in the 21st century merely a set of sociological identity markers to distinguish "Us" from "Them"? Or is trying to follow Christ something deeper?
Exactly.
The "Identity Markers" are an external. Like a costume or mask that hides the true identity.

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St. SteVen

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"Authority" implies that what is taught is normative; that is, binding. That is what prophetic authority is all about. Speaking for God.
Agree.
I got a word for someone at church a week or two ago.
It had never happened to me before. It was a bit scary.

The Pastor asked for those who needed prayer to raise a hand.
We were instructed to gather around those with raised hands right where they were.

A young woman came over and laid a hand on me as I prayed for the woman behind me.
I got a word from the Lord (I believe) that was clear and memorable. These things can be fleeting.

"I release the gifts of the Spirit in your life. The Spirit distributes them as He wills."

I added, "You can read about that in I Corinthians 12." And...
"I'm not sure if that is legitimate, you need confirmation."
She just smiled at me, somewhat amused.

[
 
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Wick Stick

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I seem to remember something about God prohibiting King David to build the Temple, preferring rather his son Solomon?

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That's definitely in there. There's a lot that could be said about Solomon, but is off-topic here. I'll confine myself to this - when the Bible reckons righteous kings and evil kings, Solomon is reckoned among the evil ones:

1Ki 11:6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.

It isn't a given that Solomon's building of the temple was necessarily a good thing.
 
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Lambano

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Exactly.
The "Identity Markers" are an external. Like a costume or mask that hides the true identity.

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Just the opposite. Identity markers don't hide the true identity; they REVEAL it. They say, "THIS is a Jew, and any who do not have this marker is a Gentile". Or "THIS is a Christian, and those who do not have this marker is not a Christian".

My teammate in the golf league a couple of years ago was a Sikh. The turban is his people's identity marker.
 
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St. SteVen

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Just the opposite. Identity markers don't hide the true identity; they REVEAL it. They say, "THIS is a Jew, and any who do not have this marker is a Gentile". Or "THIS is a Christian, and those who do not have this marker is not a Christian".

My teammate in the golf league a couple of years ago was a Sikh. The turban is his people's identity marker.
Of course.
But can't a person adopt the identity markers of a group externally, but not be genuine inside?
Seems that lots of folks get called out for that reason.

Remove the turban and what do you have?

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St. SteVen

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I got a word for someone at church a week or two ago.
It had never happened to me before. It was a bit scary.

The Pastor asked for those who needed prayer to raise a hand.
We were instructed to gather around those with raised hands right where they were.

A young woman came over and laid a hand on me as I prayed for the woman behind me.
I got a word from the Lord (I believe) that was clear and memorable. These things can be fleeting.

"I release the gifts of the Spirit in your life. The Spirit distributes them as He wills."

I added, "You can read about that in I Corinthians 12." And...
"I'm not sure if that is legitimate, you need confirmation."
She just smiled at me, somewhat amused.
I should probably share where I was at when this happened.
As I wrote, "It was a bit scary." So why did I follow through on this?

I have received prophecies on many occasions in the past.
Both spoken and written. And done some study on the subject.

Typically the "prophet" is given a puzzle piece.
They have no deep knowledge of what it is about.
In obedience to the "word" given them, they deliver it.

It is up to one receiving the word to confirm it.
The word may be immediately meaningful,
or it may take years to be confirmed.

I delivered the word given to me.
I completed the task.

[ cc: @Lambano
 
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Sister-n-Christ

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When someone tells you God's laws no longer matter to the Christian they're telling you they are entirely false. And they want to lead you to be so too.

10 Key Bible Verses on God’s Law​

Matthew 5:17–18​

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Read More

ESV Study Bible Notes​

The Jews are not spared judgment simply because they possess the law (of the OT), for those who transgress the law will be judged for their transgressions.

Paul reaffirms the principle enunciated in vv. 6–11, that the doers of the law are the ones who are righteous before God, and that their justification will be pronounced on the last day.

Some have suggested that these verses speak of Gentile obedience that leads to salvation (cf. vv. 7, 10). It is clear, however, that Paul explains here why Gentiles who do not have the law will face judgment apart from the law (see v. 12). The reason it is fair for God to judge them for their evil is that God’s law is written on their hearts, so that their consciences attest to what is right and what is wrong in their behavior. Paul does not imply that the testimony of human conscience is always a perfect moral guide (for people have conflicting thoughts about their moral behavior, sometimes excusing themselves from wrongdoing), but the very existence of this testimony is sufficient to render people accountable to God. (Elsewhere Paul indicates that people’s consciences can be distorted by sin; see 1 Cor. 8:7, 10; 10:29; 1 Tim. 4:2; Titus 1:15.)

8. 1 John 3:4​

Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. Read More

ESV Study Bible Notes​

Children of God and the Forsaking of Sin. To confess the Son and to have the Father (2:23) profoundly alters daily living.

Lawlessness (Gk. anomia) is activity bereft of God’s guidance and in violation of his law. sin is lawlessness. Even Christians sin (1:9; 2:1), so it may seem like a trivial matter. But to disregard sin’s grave implications is disastrous.

9. Galatians 6:2​

Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. Read More

ESV Study Bible Notes​

To bear one another’s burdens is the supreme imitation of Jesus, the ultimate burden-bearer (see Rom. 15:1–3). He has even gone to the length of taking mankind’s sins (Gal. 1:4) and the curse of the law (3:13) upon himself. and so fulfill the law of Christ. Though Paul insists that the Galatians are free from obeying Jewish ceremonial laws (see note on 2:11–12), this does not mean they are free from all of God’s moral requirements. The “law of Christ” in a broad sense means the entire body of ethical teaching that Jesus gave and endorsed (see note on 1 Cor. 9:21), but in a specific sense here it probably refers to the command to love one’s neighbor as oneself (Matt. 22:39; John 13:34), which, if followed fully, will result in obeying the rest of God’s moral law (Rom. 13:8–10).

10. Romans 13:8–10​

Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. Read More

ESV Study Bible Notes​

Verses 8–10 focus on the Christian’s relationship to the Mosaic law. Owe no one anything links back to v. 7, and thus the command does not prohibit all borrowing but means that one should always “pay what is owed” (see v. 7), fulfilling whatever repayment agreements have been made. The debt one never ceases paying is the call to love one another. Indeed, love fulfills what the Mosaic law demands.


Paul cites several OT commandments regarding responsibility to others, all of which are summed up in the call from Lev. 19:18 to love your neighbor as yourself.

 

St. SteVen

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God’s law is written on their hearts, so that their consciences attest to what is right and what is wrong in their behavior.
This is my understanding of God's law. The God-given law of human conscience.


[
 

Sister-n-Christ

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This is my understanding of God's law. The God-given law of human conscience.


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Yeah so,do the ten commands in your view fall into that area of conscience?
 

St. SteVen

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Sister-n-Christ

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Really?
What are you up to?

By referring to it as "God's Sabbath" you bring judgement.

Are you claiming you don't judge those who don't keep "God's Sabbath"? - LOL

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Oh,I see. You really don't know what were talking about here.

Your laughter doesn't hide that fact.
 

Wick Stick

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Do the ten commands in your view fall into that area of conscience?
This wasn't addressed to me, so pardon my interruption

I don't see "the Law written on our hearts" as a matter of conscience. I see it as being those same 10 old commands, but enforced by ourselves upon ourselves, rather than one man against another.

  1. Monotheism
  2. Iconoclasm
  3. Don't presume to speak on behalf of God (unless He genuinely gives you a message)
  4. Weekly Rest
  5. Support of the Elderly
  6. Don't Murder
  7. Don't Marry outside Faith
  8. Don't Steal (Establishment of Personal Property)
  9. Don't Lie (Establishment of Jurisprudence in the hands of Witnesses)
  10. Don't begrudge your neighbor what is rightfully his (Establishment of Real and Private Property)
They aren't hard concepts.
 

Sister-n-Christ

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This wasn't addressed to me, so pardon my interruption

I don't see "the Law written on our hearts" as a matter of conscience. I see it as being those same 10 old commands, but enforced by ourselves upon ourselves, rather than one man against another.

  1. Monotheism
  2. Iconoclasm
  3. Don't presume to speak on behalf of God (unless He genuinely gives you a message)
  4. Weekly Rest
  5. Support of the Elderly
  6. Don't Murder
  7. Don't Marry outside Faith
  8. Don't Steal (Establishment of Personal Property)
  9. Don't Lie (Establishment of Jurisprudence in the hands of Witnesses)
  10. Don't begrudge your neighbor what is rightfully his (Establishment of Real and Private Property)
They aren't hard concepts.
That just shut down the Anti's here.

Well done.
 

St. SteVen

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Wick Stick said:


This wasn't addressed to me, so pardon my interruption

I don't see "the Law written on our hearts" as a matter of conscience. I see it as being those same 10 old commands, but enforced by ourselves upon ourselves, rather than one man against another.

  1. Monotheism
  2. Iconoclasm
  3. Don't presume to speak on behalf of God (unless He genuinely gives you a message)
  4. Weekly Rest
  5. Support of the Elderly
  6. Don't Murder
  7. Don't Marry outside Faith
  8. Don't Steal (Establishment of Personal Property)
  9. Don't Lie (Establishment of Jurisprudence in the hands of Witnesses)
  10. Don't begrudge your neighbor what is rightfully his (Establishment of Real and Private Property)
They aren't hard concepts.
That just shut down the Anti's here.
Does that mean you agree with his Ten?

[