Don't trust or don't like? The wrath / fear of God is a MAIN Bible doctrine!
Do you FEAR God? You will! Soon EVERYBODY will.
Psalm 111:10
10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom;
Wise up!
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The Wrath of God - How is it love?
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Do you FEAR God? You will! Soon EVERYBODY will.
Psalm 111:10
10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom;
Wise up!
That's a real shame!
John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
you are seeing this all wrong .
GOD must destroy all evil . Evil has no love in it and works only harm to others .
Now one day all the sheep are finally going to be in a world , a new world wherein there will be NO evil .
GOD knowing THAT ALL EVIL must and will one day be destroyed
DESIRES LIFE for us , THUS HE DID SEND the SON so that all who do beleive would be saved .
People get upset at GOD for HIS WRATH and act as though because HE WILL destroy that somehow this contradicts HIS LOVE .
NO . How many people here would love to be in a world where NO EVIL , no wrongs , no murder
no killing , no more rape . GOD is going to have this for us .
SO its not EVIL for GOD to DESTROY EVIL at all . ITS GOOD .
The thing is GOD has made the way OUT of HIS wrath and HIS RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT OF HIS WRATH .
HIS NAME BE JESUS THE CHRIST . SO HOW about preaching the true love of GOD
and not this inclusive lie getting sold which i KNOW will save none but damn them all .
YOU need to get busy preaching JESUS and stop trying to change the image of GOD .
HE will destroy all evil one day . A new heavens and a new earth will be the home of all who loved CHRIST JESUS
but woe unto those who try and supplant the idea its not necessary to have Beleived on HIM and confessed HIM .
I say WOE unto all who had any part in that lie .
I never anticipated this would be our discussion just because I suggested our worldly view given unto us by the world of what wrath, vengeance, revenge looks like… is not the same as God’s definition. For example even their definition of what a King is. They waited for demonstration of power of what a King is, mocking Him as King of the Jews. But to me He did demonstrate power as King, (I have been given the power to lay it down, and take it up again) as Lord…a definition of King that men refuses the definition of which is “I will be weak, that you be made strong.” He served not Himself but became poor that we may be made rich towards God.
I’m not talking about the lexicon, or needing to be elbow deep in definitions and translation. It’s a perspective change of God. I’ve said it many times I thought God was a tyrant, a gavel slinging cruel judge, a male chauvinist whose vengeance is to burn people in hell. out from that perspective every meaning in the Bible aligned with the perspective I held of God. See..He is a tyrant! You made it as if only suggesting God’s wrath or Anger is different from ours as something regarding messing with definitions of the words …no I’m only suggesting a perspective change of His Nature. It’s nothing to keep going on about…I don’t agree with what you’re saying. I’ve heard countless times over my life someone refer to their Anger as “righteous Anger” comparing it to the Anger of God. Whether it’s righteous anger remains to be seen….
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bdavidc
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- Mar 31, 2025
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The problem with your argument is not that you quoted Scripture, but that you quoted it out of context without weighing it against the rest of God’s Word. Yes, the Bible says the wicked will be destroyed, perish, consumed, devoured, and cut off. But Scripture also defines what that destruction is, and it is not annihilation. Revelation 20: 10 says the devil, the beast, and the false prophet will be “tormented day and night for ever and ever.” A few verses later (v.15) everyone not written in the book of life is cast into the same lake of fire. To say this means ceasing to exist contradicts the plain context, because John describes their end as unceasing torment.
In 2 Thessalonians 1: 9, “everlasting destruction” is defined as being “from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power.” Destruction here is exclusion from God’s favor and being locked under His wrath, not vanishing from existence. Jesus in Matthew 25: 46 used the same word aiōnios for both life and punishment. If eternal life is endless, eternal punishment must be endless also. Scripture does not permit redefining the same word differently in the same sentence.
Your verses about burning and consuming prove the opposite of what you claim. Malachi 4: 1–3 says the wicked will be burned up like stubble and become ashes, but Revelation 14:11 interprets that: “The smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night.” If smoke rises forever, the burning is not a momentary snuffing out, but an ongoing reminder of unending judgment. Hebrews 10: 27 speaks of a “fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries,” then warns of a “sorer punishment.” Devouring here means consuming in wrath without relief, not instant vaporization.
Even “perish” does not mean extinction. John 3: 16 sets it as the opposite of everlasting life. In Luke 16 Jesus shows the rich man conscious in torment, begging for relief, but cut off from life. The Greek word apollumi (perish) is also used of wineskins (Matthew 9:17). They do not vanish, but are ruined and useless. Likewise, eternal ruin for sinners means they remain, but under wrath forever.
Scripture harmonizes when you let it speak for itself. Destruction is everlasting punishment, not temporary extinction. Jesus said, “Their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44). That is not ceasing to exist, but ongoing reality. Both eternal life and eternal punishment are forever, and the only escape is Christ. To deny what Jesus said is not submission to Scripture, but twisting it to make it easier to accept.
Yes, it may be more comfortable to believe that hell is not eternal, but a lie, even when comforting, is still a lie. Rewording God’s Word will never change the truth. Eternal punishment is as real as eternal life. To deny it is to deny Christ’s words, and lying about it will not alter the facts written in Scripture.
If you try to change what the Bible says because you don’t want to face the truth, that itself is God warning you. He is showing you that you need to come to Him, be born again, and receive His mercy through Jesus Christ. Then you will not have to fear eternal punishment, because in Christ you will have eternal life.
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
Well said.
God's ways are not our ways,of course. However,if he inspired the Bible, especially when those Jesus ministered to in his time were largely illiterate,he wouldn't require we be educated in different language forms in order to get the message .
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Evil destroys itself. It has in it the seeds of its own demise just like cancer untreated will kill its victim.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Jack, I think this attached presentation is tailored for you. Please make the effort and take the time to watch it.
212 The Apparently Angry, Arbitrary God
How can I believe in a God that is so angry and arbitrary? With a basic reading of the Bible people come away with a view of God that is apparently angry and arbitrary. For those who grow up in church we often have become immune to these stories and statements that describe God as destroying His...
You have proven that you reject the Christian Bible! I'm not interested in your Bible attacking links!Jack, I think this attached presentation is tailored for you. Please make the effort and take the time to watch it.
212 The Apparently Angry, Arbitrary God
How can I believe in a God that is so angry and arbitrary? With a basic reading of the Bible people come away with a view of God that is apparently angry and arbitrary. For those who grow up in church we often have become immune to these stories and statements that describe God as destroying His...www.rediscoveringgod.ca
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
If you haven't watched it and you make a negative judgement on it, what do you think saying it is bible attacking, qualifies your words as?
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
You twist things Jack and confuse yourself. Go back and read your own post.
I have quoted your BLATANT attacks on the Bible and Jesus. Want me to quote them again?
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
You live in a world of lies Jack, of misperceptions and stubbornness!
Lies? You should read what YOU said about Jesus and our Christian Bible! You BLATANTLY attacked Jesus and our Christian Bible!
Such IRONY!
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
You see black, Jack even when white stares you in the face!
You see punishment when Grace overflows.
You see misery when joy welcomes you.
Wake up Jack!
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
I (PAUL) WAS SHOWN MERCY BECAUSE I ACTED IN IGNORANCE AND UNBELIEF 1 Timothy 1:13
Here we see the Divine principle of responsibility.
A person becomes accountable to God’s judgment when they are enlightened in the way of truth. Those who remain ignorant remain in the congregation of the dead (Prov 21:16; Ps. 49:20; Isa. 26:14; Jer. 51:39, 57).
Ignorance is the only barrier to accountability before God, but knowledge brings responsibility: “To him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin” (James 4:17). Yet, when one comes to a knowledge of Truth, as Paul did, mercy can still be found for sins of ignorance, through obedience in baptism.
Saul had failed to recognize Jesus as the fulfillment of the Law. His persecution of the saints was carried out in ignorance. No man felt the weight of his sin more deeply than Paul when reflecting on his past. Yet all who come to Christ may also know the same merciful removal of sin’s burden.
“Come unto me, all you that are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest.”
Quite possibly the easiest of Christ's commands, but in time we shall see it was the impossible for most.
Here we see the Divine principle of responsibility.
A person becomes accountable to God’s judgment when they are enlightened in the way of truth. Those who remain ignorant remain in the congregation of the dead (Prov 21:16; Ps. 49:20; Isa. 26:14; Jer. 51:39, 57).
Ignorance is the only barrier to accountability before God, but knowledge brings responsibility: “To him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin” (James 4:17). Yet, when one comes to a knowledge of Truth, as Paul did, mercy can still be found for sins of ignorance, through obedience in baptism.
Saul had failed to recognize Jesus as the fulfillment of the Law. His persecution of the saints was carried out in ignorance. No man felt the weight of his sin more deeply than Paul when reflecting on his past. Yet all who come to Christ may also know the same merciful removal of sin’s burden.
“Come unto me, all you that are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest.”
Quite possibly the easiest of Christ's commands, but in time we shall see it was the impossible for most.
Denying the Flood account:
"Yes, I am denying that God brought the flood even though it is attributed to him by the writer (Moses)"
"irrespective of what Jesus said, he didn't use the NT"
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