Fishing done his way
- Thread starter Matthias
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“1. Study the art of diverting conversation to spiritual topics. Go through the Gospel of John, and study carefully the Saviour’s methods of approaching men. Indeed, the Gospel of John might well be called the personal worker’s Gospel, so full is it of incidents that illustrate this important subject.”
(Howard W. Pope, II. Timothy 2:15 A Course of Study In Personal Work, p. 55)
(Howard W. Pope, II. Timothy 2:15 A Course of Study In Personal Work, p. 55)
Fishers would "cast their bread upon the waters" because fish actually love bread, and its an effective way to lure them into one place (or find out if there be many there) to fish them. And after the eating of the same Jesus did say, "Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled."
That sort of thing?
That sort of thing?
If we are to make disciples the way Jesus showed us how to make disciples, wouldn’t all of his disciples be performing miracles?
We know, John pointed to Jesus and many left off following John (I must decrease) and the Lord increasing in their lives, and he turned many to Jesus but John is spoken of as not performing a miracles
John 10:41 And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true...
And even though a great multitude followed Jesus because of the miracles he did (John 6:2) Jesus being approved in the very doing of the same (Acts 2:22) There were yet others who Jesus had done so many miracles before them, and yet they believed not on him (John 12:27)
These ended up seeking Jesus not because they saw the miracles but did eat of the loaves and were filled
John 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Jesus was approved by the miracles and wonders and signs God performed by him (Acts 2:22) Stephen also, (Acts 6:8) And Philip (Acts 8:13) And Saul and Barnabas (Acts 15:12) God bears them a witness in Israel at the time (as shown us in Isaiah 8:18) both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost" (Heb 2:4 & Mark 16:20) At other times, Jesus could not do many mighty works there because of their unbelief (Matt 13:58) whereas He , that is the Spirit Gal 3:5 "worketh miracles among you", by the hearing of faith. Although in 1 Cr 12:26 Paul says, " And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles..." but then asks, in 1 Cr:12:26 "Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?" And if all are not Apostles and not all prophets I would think not all are workers of miracles.
I have never had a miracle performed though me personally, not that I know of anyway, I think someone would be aware if had been performed through them.
My conclusion: Jesus didn’t show his disciples that performing miracles is the way for his disciples to fish for people.
In Luke 10 (below) it appears to be in their instructions as labourers
But I cannot find too much on fishers so much, though I know it speaks of fishers and even hunters together in this scenario here
Jerm 16:16 Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.
Would that in anyway ressemble what he similarly he tells them here?
Luke 12:43 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
Because I don't see much as far as a picture of fishers that wouldn't make better sense as would a picture of a labourer in the harvest, such as here
Luke 10
[2] Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.
[3] Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
[4] Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
[5] And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
[6] And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.
[7] And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.
[8] And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
[9] And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
[10] But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
[11] Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
[12] But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.
[13] Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.
[14] But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you.
[15] And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
[16] He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.
But even in the above they were to perform healing the sick, " [vs 9] "And heal the sick that are therein"
Even of the multitudes who did behold the same that came by Jesus it says
Mat 9:8 But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God,
which had given such power unto men.
Not forgetting to mention those who were healed of their sicknesses by the power of God in Jesus (such as the blind man who was healed) reccognized the fact that
John 9:33 If this man were not of God, he could do nothing.
Would seem their word would be accompanied with power as the Lord's was
Acts 10:18 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
It was an evidence of a man approved of God though
Acts 2:2 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Which is also as God bearing (Jesus Christ) as well as them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost (Heb 2:4, Isaiah 8:18)
And the apostles performed a miracle, making a lame man walk the people held Peter and John, all the people ran together unto them in the porch that is called Solomon's, greatly wondering.
Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
So in these very doings (or signs and wonders) being performed by his apostles in the midst of these people drew together many more in to them, and gave them the opportunity to proclaim the name of Jesus Christ and give the credit due to him that was due.
Acts 3:16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
So I would think that men of God walking in the power of God according to the above could be shown as fishers of men (which Jesus makes them to be) by performing through them what no man can do by his own power (but only the power of God) that is with them. Since the Kingdom of God (which is also the Spirit of God) is also likened unto a net too, so perhaps that even works in the fishers of men picture you are seeking to show? I don't know.
I am pretty much done, so I won't take up any more space on your thread on this topic, I don't have much more to add than I already have besides.
Combining Matthew 4:19 with Matthew 28:19-20 and your posts on performing miracles.
Gotcha, I thought you were looking for more than just that, short and sweet and perfect
I’m currently reading a book about making disciples and the author (post # 3) is taking the long way around the barn. I’m about half way through the book. He’s got a long way to go and a short time to get there. He might close strong (I hope he does) but it caused me to think it would be a good topic of conversation.
@Matthias I think you opened the conversation and closed it with those two verses,
I sure dont how much is left to actually converse about if thats all you were looking for there.
2. Choose an opportune time and place. It is not well to stop one who is running for a train to inquire about his soul, neither is it the highest wisdom to give a hungry man a tract. Far better give him a cup of coffee, and make it so hot that he cannot drink it. Then, while, he is sipping the coffee, you can perhaps say something to warm his heart.
It is a good plan to lay people under some slight obligation. If your neighbor in the car has no paper, buy one, and after glancing at it pass it to him, saying, ‘Would you like to see the morning paper?’ After he has read it the most natural thing is to open a conversation about the news of the day, and from this you can pass to more important topics.
Remember that persons are often more ready to talk about religion with strangers than with those whom they know. Remember that the Holy Spirit is all the while convicting people of sin, the providence of God is continually softening hearts and preparing the way for some one to drop in the good seed of the gospel. Remember also that thousands of persons have never once in all their lives had the way of salvation made plain to them, and then in a firm but loving way been urged to settle the question, and settle it now.”
(Howard W. Pope, II. 2 Timothy 2:15, pp. 59-60)
Disciple making advice in 1910.
It is a good plan to lay people under some slight obligation. If your neighbor in the car has no paper, buy one, and after glancing at it pass it to him, saying, ‘Would you like to see the morning paper?’ After he has read it the most natural thing is to open a conversation about the news of the day, and from this you can pass to more important topics.
Remember that persons are often more ready to talk about religion with strangers than with those whom they know. Remember that the Holy Spirit is all the while convicting people of sin, the providence of God is continually softening hearts and preparing the way for some one to drop in the good seed of the gospel. Remember also that thousands of persons have never once in all their lives had the way of salvation made plain to them, and then in a firm but loving way been urged to settle the question, and settle it now.”
(Howard W. Pope, II. 2 Timothy 2:15, pp. 59-60)
Disciple making advice in 1910.
“3. Watch for souls that must give account. When an insurance agent is introduced to a man, his first thought is, ‘How old is that man, and how much life insurance does he carry?’ and he isn’t long in finding out, either.
A friend of mine was accosted by the words, ‘Shine your shoes, boss?’
Looking at his feet he said, ‘Well, I guess I do need a shine, but I didn’t know it; how did you know that my shoes needed a shine?’
’That’s my business, boss; when a man comes into this hotel, I don’t look to see what kind of a hat he wears, I don’t look at his face, I just looks at his feet; that’s my business, you see.’
So should it be our business, when we meet a man, to think of his soul and the possible ways of helping him.
Do not always walk home from church the same way and with the same person. Join some one who is not a Christian, and, as you walk along, express your views about the sermon, and see what impression it has made upon him. That is what sermons are for, in part, to give people something to talk about, and arguments to use in leading people to decision.”
(Howard W. Pope, II. 2 Timothy 2:15, pp. 60-61)
He sounds like what he was, an early 20th century Protestant pastor. This is the type of thing I heard growing up in the Southern Baptist Church, though Pope was a non-denominational pastor.
Is this how Jesus showed his disciples to go and make disciples?
A friend of mine was accosted by the words, ‘Shine your shoes, boss?’
Looking at his feet he said, ‘Well, I guess I do need a shine, but I didn’t know it; how did you know that my shoes needed a shine?’
’That’s my business, boss; when a man comes into this hotel, I don’t look to see what kind of a hat he wears, I don’t look at his face, I just looks at his feet; that’s my business, you see.’
So should it be our business, when we meet a man, to think of his soul and the possible ways of helping him.
Do not always walk home from church the same way and with the same person. Join some one who is not a Christian, and, as you walk along, express your views about the sermon, and see what impression it has made upon him. That is what sermons are for, in part, to give people something to talk about, and arguments to use in leading people to decision.”
(Howard W. Pope, II. 2 Timothy 2:15, pp. 60-61)
He sounds like what he was, an early 20th century Protestant pastor. This is the type of thing I heard growing up in the Southern Baptist Church, though Pope was a non-denominational pastor.
Is this how Jesus showed his disciples to go and make disciples?
“4. Obey every prompting of the Holy Spirit. It required some grace for Philip to leave a great revival at Samaria and journey down the desert road to Gaza on an unknown errand. If he had been like some Christians, he would have argued with the Lord about the matter until he had missed his opportunity; but, as it was, ‘he arose and went,’ without one word of remonstrance. He arrived at the crossroads just in time to intercept the treasurer of the great Ethiopian empire, and he had the joy of leading him to Christ. Had he arrived five minutes later, his journey would have been in vain.
One of the secrets of success in Christian work is to obey the Spirit promptly. Dr. A.C. Dixon was hurrying to church one night when he saw three young men talking by the wayside. Just as he passed he felt led to speak to them. He went back, and asked whether they were Christians. Two of them replied in the affirmative. He then invited them to church.
The one that was not a Christian said, ‘We haven’t time to go, as we are cramming for examinations.‘
Dr. Dixon simply replied, ‘Are you ready for the great examination, my friend?’ and passed on.
That night the young man that said he had not time came to the service and accepted Christ, and is now a preacher of the gospel.
The writer was walking down the street one day when he met a friend, who said to him, ‘Howard, don’t you expect to become a Christian some time?’
’Why, yes, I presume so. I suppose every one expects to become a Christian some time.’
’Don’t you think it would be a wise thing if you were to accept Christ as your Saviour now?’
’Probably. If it is a good thing to do at all, I suppose the sooner it is done, the better.’
’Well, Howard, will you accept Christ now?’
I hesitated a moment, and then answered, ‘Yes’; and that is the way I was led to Christ.
A college classmate of mine was converted in the following manner. He was in the high school. One day his teacher walked down the aisle with her hands behind her. As she passed his desk she dropped a note on it in such a way that no one else would notice it. He opened it and read, ‘Dear Charles, as you are especially good in mathematics, I wish to propose the following question: ‘What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his own soul?’ The tactful way of approach and the pertinence of the question led to his immediate conversion, and also to the conversion of his seat-mate, who peeped over his shoulder and read the note. Any teacher could use that method.
Two boys sat in a bedroom trading stamps. One boy said to the other, ‘Jim, do you love Jesus?’
’What is that you said, John?’
’I asked if you loved Jesus.’
’Well, no, I cannot say that I do.’
’Well, Jim, I’m not much of a Christian myself; but I really wish you would give your heart to Jesus. Suppose we kneel down, and I will ask Him to help you. Shall we?’
’No, John, you needn’t ask Him. I’ll ask Him. I’ll ask Him myself.’
And that was the way Jim became a Christian. That was twenty-five years ago. To-day Jim is a printer in an Eastern city, doing faithful work for the Master. John is the pastor of one of the strongest churches in Chicago, and not a Christmas has passed for a quarter of a century without his receiving from Jim some grateful remembrance of the eventful conversation.”
(Howard. W. Pope, II. Timothy 2:15, pp. 62-65)
No doubt many will find this all perfectly fine, and perhaps even similar to their own experience. But the question this, Is this how Jesus showed his disciples to fish for men?
I don’t see anything wrong with the principle, and binding it with the example Philip (Acts 8) makes it a strong point. The rest of it though?
One of the secrets of success in Christian work is to obey the Spirit promptly. Dr. A.C. Dixon was hurrying to church one night when he saw three young men talking by the wayside. Just as he passed he felt led to speak to them. He went back, and asked whether they were Christians. Two of them replied in the affirmative. He then invited them to church.
The one that was not a Christian said, ‘We haven’t time to go, as we are cramming for examinations.‘
Dr. Dixon simply replied, ‘Are you ready for the great examination, my friend?’ and passed on.
That night the young man that said he had not time came to the service and accepted Christ, and is now a preacher of the gospel.
The writer was walking down the street one day when he met a friend, who said to him, ‘Howard, don’t you expect to become a Christian some time?’
’Why, yes, I presume so. I suppose every one expects to become a Christian some time.’
’Don’t you think it would be a wise thing if you were to accept Christ as your Saviour now?’
’Probably. If it is a good thing to do at all, I suppose the sooner it is done, the better.’
’Well, Howard, will you accept Christ now?’
I hesitated a moment, and then answered, ‘Yes’; and that is the way I was led to Christ.
A college classmate of mine was converted in the following manner. He was in the high school. One day his teacher walked down the aisle with her hands behind her. As she passed his desk she dropped a note on it in such a way that no one else would notice it. He opened it and read, ‘Dear Charles, as you are especially good in mathematics, I wish to propose the following question: ‘What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his own soul?’ The tactful way of approach and the pertinence of the question led to his immediate conversion, and also to the conversion of his seat-mate, who peeped over his shoulder and read the note. Any teacher could use that method.
Two boys sat in a bedroom trading stamps. One boy said to the other, ‘Jim, do you love Jesus?’
’What is that you said, John?’
’I asked if you loved Jesus.’
’Well, no, I cannot say that I do.’
’Well, Jim, I’m not much of a Christian myself; but I really wish you would give your heart to Jesus. Suppose we kneel down, and I will ask Him to help you. Shall we?’
’No, John, you needn’t ask Him. I’ll ask Him. I’ll ask Him myself.’
And that was the way Jim became a Christian. That was twenty-five years ago. To-day Jim is a printer in an Eastern city, doing faithful work for the Master. John is the pastor of one of the strongest churches in Chicago, and not a Christmas has passed for a quarter of a century without his receiving from Jim some grateful remembrance of the eventful conversation.”
(Howard. W. Pope, II. Timothy 2:15, pp. 62-65)
No doubt many will find this all perfectly fine, and perhaps even similar to their own experience. But the question this, Is this how Jesus showed his disciples to fish for men?
I don’t see anything wrong with the principle, and binding it with the example Philip (Acts 8) makes it a strong point. The rest of it though?
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Fishing done his way
Mega drag nets? Gelignite? M16? Spearing? Trapping?John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto Me.”
From my X / Twitter “For you” feed this evening -
“Jesus doesn’t exist for your agendas. You exist for His mission.
(Shane Pruitt)
His mission. His way.
“Jesus doesn’t exist for your agendas. You exist for His mission.
(Shane Pruitt)
His mission. His way.
“In leading one to decision it is important to separate the main question from all side issues. Let the inquirer see clearly that what you ask him to do is not to join a church, or to believe a certain creed, or even to improve his life, but to accept Jesus Christ as his personal Saviour. This, and this alone, is the question.”
(Howard W. Pope, II. Timothy 2:15, p. 120)
(Howard W. Pope, II. Timothy 2:15, p. 120)
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