Is the "free gift" of salvation really free? - Honestly?

[Aunty Jane]

Im actually revealing this members willful deception.
I do the same with you.

If you are preaching a false gospel, then under whose authority do you speak? What if yours is the wilful deception in only preaching the words of just one apostle...? There were 12 others, all mentioned by name, the majority of whom didn’t pen a word of Scripture. Yet they still held an equal place as members of the Twelve....spoken of as the very foundations of the Christian Faith.

What is it that you are missing?

Now... here is the reality Your fate exists.
Its exists as a person who denies that all "Christians" have to be ""born again""., and that is what you posted.

Not all Christians have to be “born again” because not all Christians are going to heaven....the ones “chosen from among mankind as firstfruits” (Rev 14:1-5) are “firstfruits” for a reason...there was a secondary crop to follow. These also have the “first resurrection” (Rev 20:6) again because another was to follow.

It is you who do not understand what it means to be “born again”....and who it is that God has chosen to rule with his son in the coming Kingdom.....the one that Daniel prophesied about....(Daniel 2:44) that was to “crush” all forms of corrupt human rulership out of existence and replace them as mankind’s only government. Only they need to be “born again” as spirit creatures, so as to dwell in the spirit realm in the presence of God. They will rule redeemed mankind on earth.

Its the Truth that is your Judge.
You'll find out.

We all will.....won’t it be interesting to see Matthew 7:21-23 fulfilled? None of us will be in any doubt then.

Hell is not designed to express God's Love.
Its designed to reveal God's judgment.

You have no idea what “hell” is......tell me which one you are referring to....? “Hades”? “Gehenna”? “The lake of fire” or “Tartarus”? It’s all translated as “hell” to you folks.....but Jesus mentioned only one.....”Gehenna”.....and his Jewish audience knew exactly what he was talking about.......Jews had no belief in your hell because they had no belief in immortal souls. That idea was adopted later from Greek influence.

You have to be alive to suffer eternally, and yet only the righteous were to be granted eternal life....care to explain that?

The dead are not really dead in your belief system......so what does it mean to be “dead”? Still alive? Iiving in another place to be in heavenly bliss with the Lord, or to be tortured in flames for all eternity by a God of love?

Is that what Jews were taught? (Eccl 9:5; 10)

 

[St. SteVen]

The dead are not really dead in your belief system......so what does it mean to be “dead”? Still alive? Iiving in another place to be in heavenly bliss with the Lord, or to be tortured in flames for all eternity by a God of love?

How do you respond if someone claims your view of hell is unbiblical?
I certainly get that complaint a lot.

[

 

[Behold]

If you are preaching a false gospel,

There is only one Gospel in the "time of the Gentiles".

Its Paul's Gospel.

Any other, as he told you, is cursed. = Galatians 1:8

Galatians 1:8

Galatians 1:8.

Ive already shared Paul's gospel with you at least 30 times.

You can't hear it.

Not all Christians have to be “born again” because not all Christians are going to heaven..

What you just posted is perhaps the craziest thing ive ever heard a cult member state on a "christian fourm".

What you stated is just completely (Jehovah's Witness) demonic theology.

It is you who do not understand what it means to be “born again”..

"Born again" Spiritually, as a "new Creation" "in Christ".......as "one with God".

God's Holy Spirit birth's the spirit in a BELIEVER, into Hinself = "one with God"... "in Christ".

We all will.....won’t it be interesting to see Matthew 7:21-23 fulfilled? None of us will be in any doubt then.

Christians are already "seated in heavenly places". having received "the Gift of Eternal Life".

You have no idea what “hell” is..

Where is Hell found?
Its found at the end of a Christ Rejecting Life.
Its found subsequent to the DEATH of every false christian cult member who is not actually born again.

Jesus said..........."you must be born again".......or you will "die in your sins".......and being born agian is not the same as being water baptized.

You have to be alive to suffer eternally, and yet only the righteous were to be granted eternal life....care to explain that?

"The body is dead because of sin", and is heading to the grave.

Inside the body is the SPIRIT, and this is the real person.....and this has to be BORN AGAIN.

After your body dies.........the spirit is going to God or to Hell.

Everyone who went to Hell today.......believes in it now.

The dead are not really dead in your belief system.....

"The Body is dead because of sin".
This is why they are going to bury yours or cremate it.
Have you decided which, yet.... @Aunty Jane ?

 

[Aunty Jane]

How do you respond if someone claims your view of hell is unbiblical.
I certainly get that complaint a lot.

You show them the biblical reasons why “hell” cannot be what they assume it to be. Nor is it in keeping with the character and personality of God that was seen in his son...who expressed kindness even to sinners.

First you have to define what “hell” is in the Bible......is it “hades”? “Gehenna”? “The lake of fire”? or ”tartarus”? Once you explain what each of these words mean and what they meant to a first century Jew, (Jesus’ exclusive audience) then you can outline what each of these terms really mean......a hell of eternal fiery torment was far from Jesus mind when he mentioned those things.

Not only is a literal “hell” sadistic, but it achieves nothing......justice is a deserved punishment.....the penalty has to align with the severity of the crime.......so how is eternal torture a just punishment for a short lifetime of sin, especially for those who never heard of God or about his rescue mission in Christ?

The highest penalty under God’s law was death....there was no torture involved in any penalty, and those who broke the law were aware of the punishment before they committed the crime.

Those who relish the thought of the wicked being tortured in agony for all eternity, demonstrate that they worship the wrong god.

 

[quietthinker]

Is the "free gift" of salvation really free? - Honestly?​

Yeah, it's free. What men do with that freedom is another matter. They will misrepresent it, manipulate it, pooh hoo it, exploit it or they will in gratitude allow it to shift their paradigm, one in line with God's character.

 

[Behold]

You show them the biblical reasons why “hell” cannot be what they assume it to be. Nor is it in keeping with the character and personality of God that was seen in his son..

You have a warped and one sided Jehovah's Witness viewpoint of God.
You want Him to be Santa Claus and He's not that one.. @Aunty Jane

So..Here are a few of God's "Character" Traits.

Holiness
Righteousness
Jealousy
Love
Perfection
Patient
Longsuffering
Eternal Judge

Now.....Lets look at God........, as the rightesous Judge.

1.) He destroyed every human being in a Flood.......He drowned them all.

- 500 yrs later

2.) He burned a city filled with Homosexuals and assorted immoral perverts..., without asking them if they felt their cival rights were being violated.
If you come to Israel, you can go to the area of this former City, and see the black ash burned into the Rocks.

3.) He killed 3000 human beings at the Ft of Mount Sinai.

4.) But what about God's Love?

5.) For God so loved the world, that He gave JESUS to The Cross to redeem all the lost from their sin so that they may be born again and gain God's Eternal life and Heaven itself.

6.) What about Jesus?

7.) Jesus took cords and made a whip and went into the Temple in Jerusalem and turned over tables and drove people out with that whip.

8.) Jesus, who laid down His life for the sin of the world., who said...>"If you seen me, you've seen the Father"......."I and my Father are ONE".

 

[Aunty Jane]

Let’s just take your post apart and exaine what you’ve asserted....

There is only one Gospel in the "time of the Gentiles".

Its Paul's Gospel.

There is only one gospel.....that of Jesus Christ whom Paul, just like the other apostles, preached with great zeal. It wasn’t a separate gospel to that of Peter or Matthew or John....it was a expansion, as Peter was the one who first accepted Gentiles into the Christian arrangement, and baptized them.

Ive already shared Paul's gospel with you at least 30 times.

You can't hear it.

You can’t hear anything you don’t want to hear either....you promote what Christ himself never taught, and Paul would be shocked to hear you mention his name along with your twisted theology....and “hellfire and damnation” went out with high button shoes. Those who adhere to such nonsense really do betray their lack of knowledge of God and his son....and especially of God’s word.

What you just posted is perhaps the craziest thing ive ever heard a cult member state on a "christian fourm".

What you stated is just completely (Jehovah's Witness) demonic theology.

It’s only crazy because it deviates from what Christendom has taught since the days when the RCC held complete control over the “Christian” Faith.
Immortality of the soul is a pagan Greek doctrine, adopted and forced into Scripture by an apostate church.

There is nothing to separate from the body at death.....that is a satanic lie because it is satan who told the woman “you will surely not die”.....when God told Adam that death means the end of conscious life...a return to the dust from which he was created. You are confusing the “soul” with the “spirit”, which in Christendom has come to mean the same thing.....they are two different words with two entirely different meanings. But you need to be a student of the Bible to understand the difference.....theology will not teach you that difference.

"Born again" Spiritually, as a "new Creation" "in Christ".......as "one with God".

God's Holy Spirit birth's the spirit in a BELIEVER, into Hinself = "one with God"... "in Christ".

Those “born again” have a specific role to play in the heavenly realm to which they have been “called”. (Heb 3:1) Jesus is called both a “high priest” and an “apostle” by Paul there in that Scripture.....what do you make of that?
Rev 14:1-5 speaks of those who are “chosen from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb” so if these are “firstfruits”, others must also follow as a secondary crop. Those chosen to rule with Christ in his Kingdom, will rule redeemed mankind on earth. Those are the two crops. How is that concept lost on you?

Rev 20:6 also speaks of these chosen ones as those will will be “kings and priests” with Jesus in heaven and it says that they will be “resurrected first”......so who is to follow? (John 5:28-29) Where does Jesus call these ones from? Read it.

Christians are already "seated in heavenly places". having received "the Gift of Eternal Life".

Yes, I believe that too......but they are not who you think they are. These are the ones whom God chose as assistants in the Kingdom that will rule over redemmed mankind on earth. You seem to have no idea who the redeemed ones actually are. They are not the preachers of hellfire who serve a completely different and sadistic god.

Where is Hell found?
Its found at the end of a Christ Rejecting Life.

No sorry...”hell” is “sheol/hades” which in scripture is simply the common grave of all mankind....we all go to this “hell”. There is no consciousness there. (Eccl 9:5, 10)

What you are referring to is ‘Gehenna” which Jesus spoke about in a figurative way by linking the literal “Gehenna” (Jeruselam’s garbage dump) with those whose bodies were literally thrown into the fire for disposal, because they were not considered worthy of a decent burial....and hence no resurrection.

Gehenna is a place of eternal death, not eternal suffering. God is not the sadist you paint him to be.

Its found subsequent to the DEATH of every false christian cult member who is not actually born again.

Jesus said..........."you must be born again".......or you will "die in your sins".......and being born agian is not the same as being water baptized.

What is water baptism to someone like you? As Paul was baptized when he was converted, why do you deny that water baptism is necessary? Why was Jesus baptized?

"The Body is dead because of sin".
This is why they are going to bury yours or cremate it.
Have you decided which, yet.... @Aunty Jane ?

The body is the vehicle of the soul which is not a conscious entity by itself, but need the body to exist. The soul is the whole person. Adam was not given a soul but “became” one when “the spirit (breath) of life” was given to him by his Creator. The man “became a soul” when God started him breathing....the soul dies when breathing stops. (Ezekiel 18:4) The “spirit” is not a conscious entity either, but is the breath in our lungs that keeps the soul alive. Once breathing stops, life ceases. This is what the Bible teaches.....immortal souls do not exist. No one can be tortured after death because there is nothing to torture. That is Bible truth not man made theology.

Burial or cremation doesn’t matter because even those who have a watery grave are called back to life in the resurrection. (Rev 20:13-14) God does not need a single molecule of our former body in order to resurrect us. Think of those whose bodies were consumed by wild animals.....

A resurrection is not a continuation of life, but a restoration of it.

Where was Lazarus before Jesus raised him back to life? (John 11:11-14) What does Jesus say about that?

 

[Behold]

There is only one gospel....

There are 2 actual NT "gospels".

1.) "repent, the Kingdom of God is at hand".......so, that is John the Baptist's message to the JEWS that Peter also gave early in Acts to the JEWS......And this is what Jesus preached to the JEWS, before He was Crucified.

2.) Paul's Gospel.......that is "The Gospel of the Grace of God", which is "all who call on the name of Jesus, shall be saved"... "The Free gift of Salvaiton.... "Justification by Faith"

You can’t hear anything you don’t want to hear either..

You teach JW heresy.
I'll never hear it, as its of the Devil.
I dont want anything from the Devil, so you keep Him to yourself. @Aunty Jane

There is nothing to separate from the body at death.....

Colossians 2:11 says that the spirt in the beleiver has been "circumziced" from their Flesh.

So, that means that the spirit in the born again believer, that is inside the body......has become "in Christ" and "one with God"
.
= BORN again.... spiritually.

This is the "SON-Daughter" of God..........the "new Creation"....."in Christ"./

Those “born again” have a specific role to play in the heavenly realm to which they have been “called”.op.

The born again are the "church" the "body of Christ".... = the CHRISTians.

Rev 20:6 also speaks of these chosen ones as those will will be “kings and priests” with Jesus

During the Millennian Reign of Christ that follows the end of the Tribulation, the born again will rule and reign on this Earth, with Jesus the King.

No sorry...”hell” is “sheol/hades” which in scripture is simply the common grave of all mankind...

Hell is not the Grave.
"Hell was creted for the devil and His angels"....and that is not the hole in the ground where they will bury you. (unless they cremate you).

What is water baptism to someone like you?

Water Baptism is A symbol..... a Figure.

its symbolic of the old man of sin dying and the new creation in Christ being risen with Jesus as "Born again".

The body is the vehicle of the soul which is not a conscious entity by itself, but need the body to exist.

The body is the earth suit that the Spirit wears, and when the body dies, it turns back in to dirt.
The Spirit then goes to God, if born again, and if not, then to Hell like a bullet.

Where was Lazarus before Jesus raised him back to life?

A good friend , along with His 2 sisters.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Where was Lazarus before Jesus raised him back to life?

To which you answered...
“A good friend , along with His 2 sisters.”

LOL...where was he after he died? He was somewhere for 4 days....so from where did Jesus raise him? Where did Jesus say he was? In heaven? Or somewhere else?
What did Lazarus have to say about where he had been?

Where was his immortal soul and for what reason would Jesus bring him back from a better place, only to die again of some other cause in the future....unless of course you believe that Lazarus is still kicking around somewhere these 2000 years later?

Let’s hear your invented story...

 

[pandaflower]

Yes,it is free and irrevocable. Honestly.

 

[St. SteVen]

Those who relish the thought of the wicked being tortured in agony for all eternity, demonstrate that they worship the wrong god.

How ironic.
That's what they say about us.

I've always thought...
If they really want hell, we should give it to them. - LOL

[

 

[Aunty Jane]

The born again are the "church" the "body of Christ".... = the CHRISTians.

The “born again” are indeed “the body of Christ”.....so who make up “the body of Christ”, and what is their purpose?
They rule with Jesus in his Kingdom and are taken there upon their resurrection which was not to take place until Christ’s return according to Paul.....So where did the “saints” go prior to that? According to their Jewish belief, Paul says that they slept in death until the call from Jesus to rise. (1 Thess 4:13-17)
So when did they hear that call?

Hell is not the Grave.
"Hell was creted for the devil and His angels"....and that is not the hole in the ground where they will bury you. (unless they cremate you).

Sheol/hades is “the grave”. It is translated as such in both the Jewish Tanakh and the Greek Septuagint.

It is “Gehenna”.....(the “lake of fire”) that was created for the devil and his angels....and the “goats” go there before they do. It is a place that represents complete annihilation.....a death from which no one awakens.

Eternal death is the opposite of eternal life...in case you hadn’t noticed.
Jews did not believe in “hell” or in “immortal souls”, because their Scripture never mentioned such things. Both are pagan adoptions that came later.

Water Baptism is A symbol..... a Figure.

its symbolic of the old man of sin dying and the new creation in Christ being risen with Jesus as "Born again".

What was it a symbol for with Jesus? Why did he come to John to be baptized?
Was there an “old man of sin” in him? Or was Jesus’ baptism a symbol of something else?
Was Jesus “born again”? Did he need to be?

The body is the earth suit that the Spirit wears, and when the body dies, it turns back in to dirt.
The Spirit then goes to God, if born again, and if not, then to Hell like a bullet.

An earth suit? Seriously...where do you get this stuff?

You are again conflating two entirely different biblical terms and assuming them to mean the same thing.....
You have been shown many times why they do not mean a conscious entity that departs from the body at death.
Reference to Eccl 12:7......states that something “returns to God” but it’s is not the “soul” who died.....it is the “spirit” or breath that can only be given back at the resurrection, in a return to human life for the majority of mankind who are redeemed by Christ’s blood.

For the elect or “chosen ones”, life in heaven has been chosen for them...they did not choose it for themselves. Rev 14 clearly states that these are “chosen from among mankind as firstfruits”.....so they are a separate resurrection to the ones who have their lives restored on earth. (John 5:28-29)
These ones are “resurrected first”...to set things up, ready for the time of the end.

There is order in everything God does....including the resurrection.....as Paul says...
1 Cor 15: 20-25....NASB...
“But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. “

So Jesus was the first of those raised to spirit life and bound for heaven, followed by his elect at the time of his return, and then, when he has accomplished all that God has purposed for the rule of this Kingdom, to abolish “all rule and authority and power” of corrupted men, under influence of “the god of this world”, then the son hands the reigns back to its rightful King....to his God and Father...mission accomplished.

 

[Aunty Jane]

How ironic.
That's what they say about us.

I've always thought...
If they really want hell, we should give it to them. - LOL

It would indeed be a just penalty for misrepresenting the God of love .....but even he has no use in pressing the point....he will just remove them from existence.....but not one of them will fail to understand who is doing it and why, as the prophet Ezekiel said as God’s spokesman....
“And they will have to know that I am Jehovah”.....(”יְהֹוָ֑ה”)

Or from the Jewish Tanakh...

10 “And they will know that I am the Lord; not for naught have I spoken to do this evil to them.”

יוְיָֽדְע֖וּ כִּֽי־אֲנִ֣י יְהֹוָ֑ה לֹ֚א אֶל־חִנָּם֙ דִּבַּ֔רְתִּי לַֽעֲשׂ֥וֹת לָהֶ֖ם הָֽרָעָ֥ה הַזֹּֽאת:

(Ezekiel 6:10)

The fact is, he has no need to do more than he has stated...and what justice demands.

 

[Behold]

The “born again” are indeed “the body of Christ”.....so who make up “the body of Christ”, and what is their purpose?

The body of Christ is everyone who has become "The Temple of the Holy Spirit" before they die.

This means they are "one with God"........"in Christ'.......= born again, on earth.

Sheol/hades is “the grave”. It is translated as such in both the Jewish Tanakh and the Greek Septuagint.

Everyone who went to Hell today, believes in it now.

Eternal death is the opposite of eternal life...in case you hadn’t noticed.

""Eternal death"" is not the end of you......its the eternal continuing of your damnation that stared here...

John 3:36

Jews did not believe in “hell”

Jesus spoke more about Hell then He did Heaven.
He said its better to tear out your own eye then to go there.
Everyone who went to Hell today........ believes in it now.

or in “immortal souls”, because their Scripture never mentioned such things. Both are pagan adoptions that came later.

The "CHRISTian" is the born again Spirit that exists inside a body that is dying.
The CHRISTian, will get a new body that is designed for the "new Creation" that is their born again spirit.

What was it a symbol for with Jesus? Why did he come to John to be baptized?

Jesus had to "fulfill all law".

An earth suit? Seriously...where do you get this stuff?

Earth is dirt.
Adam was created from Dirt.
Call it the earthen container....if you prefer.
Get yourself a Dime-store NT and read Genesis., and find out.

You have been shown many times why they do not mean a conscious entity that departs from the body at death.

You are teaching demonic Jehovah's Witness CULT Theolog = on a Christian forum and are confused by the reality that no one agrees with you, unless they are a JW.
I mean really.......you can't figure that out @Aunty Jane . ??
This is not a Jehovah's Witness Cult forum.
Do you undersatand this yet?

For the elect or “chosen ones”, life in heaven has been chosen for them...

Jews are the elect, and the born again are elected "In Christ" by Faith.

Faith Elects, and God saves.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The body of Christ is everyone who has become "The Temple of the Holy Spirit" before they die.

Their priesthood is served in heaven, not on earth. They are “chosen” by God...none are volunteers.
When John received his Revelation at the end of the first century, Jesus spoke of the chosen ones and said....

“Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.” (Rev 20:6 ESV)

This is future tense....and it mentions the fact that they are resurrected “first”....immortal.....because they will never see the “second death” (the lake of fire).

Immortals don’t live on earth....it is a place designed for mortal creatures who require external means of life support (oxygen, food and water, which God abundantly supplied).......immortals live in the spirit realm because they are a separate creation, in a very different place, and in bodies that are not visible to us. No life support (in our understanding) is required.....Yet those ‘children of God’ are also under obligation to be obedient to their Creator as Sovereign over their lives. Free will is granted to both, and all are accountable to use it without interfering with, or overstepping the free will of others.

This is the life lesson, as God’s children in both realms abused their free will. God is teaching us all the value of obedience by showing us exactly where disobedience will take us...first hand experience is the best teacher, but our first parents were tricked into defecting, and through their disobedient choices, created their offspring in sin with only death in view. Being born in sin is not our fault....but committing sin is a choice.
Adam’s children needed rescue.....the means of which God immediately put in place in Gen 3:15....which was only fully understood when the “son of man” came to his ministry.

This means they are "one with God"........"in Christ'.......= born again, on earth.

One is “born again” only in heaven.....one is chosen whilst on earth with a “sealing” which is a token or “guarantee” of that anointing, until it is carried out. In order to receive “the crown of life”.....one has to die faithful.

Paul wrote in Eph 1:13-14...
“You, too, have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed in the Messiah, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit...the guarantee of our inheritance UNTIL God redeems his own possession for his praise and glory.”

That word “UNTIL” means that the fulfilment was going to take place in the future.....when Christ returned.

Everyone who went to Hell today, believes in it now.

There it is again......where did this “hell” come from? Not from God......why did God’s people have no notion of this pagan concept? Why is it absent from their Scripture? Moses never mentioned it.

Deut 30:19-20...
“I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, loving the Lord your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.” (ESV)

God’s people were offered “life or death”.....nothing more. Obedience was the requirement.

You never mention which “hell” you are referring to...”sheol/hades”...Gehenna”...”the lake of fire” or “tartarus”?....this is obviously because you do no actual Bible study, but rely on flawed theology to provide your errors which you stick to with absolute ignorance of what the Bible as a whole actually teaches.

""Eternal death"" is not the end of you......its the eternal continuing of your damnation that stared here...

John 3:36

John 3:36....
“Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” (ESV)
What does it mean to “believe in the Son”? How does one demonstrate that they truly “believe”?
By their empty words? Or by their actions and conduct? Obedience and conduct are actions...works. If the works are not demonstrated, then these ones remain under God’s condemnation until he executes sentence on them.....what is that sentence? “Gehenna”...which is eternal death because there is no immortal soul to suffer after death. You have to be alive to suffer....you haven’t thought this through, have you?

Jesus spoke more about Hell then He did Heaven.
He said its better to tear out your own eye then to go there.
Everyone who went to Hell today........ believes in it now.

So you keep saying, but since the dead are unconscious, they believe in nothing of the sort.

Those in “sheol/hades” cannot think, plan, or do anything because they sleep. (Eccl 9:5, 10)
”Rest in Peace” is exactly what they do until the resurrection....and this applied to the elect as well as everyone else who was a victim of Adam’s sin.

“Gehenna” OTOH, was a place for the incorrigibly wicked who will never see life again. What is the point of resurrection if it means going to an eternal fiery prison? That is what your sadistic god will do....mine will simply not remember that these ones ever existed. He has no need or desire to inflict eternal suffering on anyone.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jesus had to "fulfill all law".

John the Baptist was baptising people to demonstrate repentance over sins against God’s law, which was only for Jews.....so when Jesus came to him, John refused as he knew Jesus to be the sinless son of God.
I hope you realize that John was acting on his knowledge, but Jesus said....“Let it be this time, for in that way it is suitable for us to carry out all that is righteous.”

Jesus’ baptism was the beginning of his new course in life......symbolic of his coming death and resurrection....the course that would end in his sacrifice, and laying the basis for the saving of mankind. It was a free gift, but not one that could be taken for granted....actions of the part of his disciples had to follow, and a lifestyle that demonstrated Christ’s teachings in their lives from that day forward.

All had to undergo water baptism with the same aim...to live as Christ lived..and to die faithful. John‘s baptism was not Christian baptism, but a preparatory work that the prophet Isaiah foretold...”preparing the way” for Jesus. All had to be baptized as disciples of Jesus....even Paul.

But Jesus promised another baptism for those who would join him in heaven...and that was baptism with the Holy Spirit....something that did not take place until after Jesus returned to his Father’s house in heaven. A place he went to “prepare a place” for them, as he promised.

Earth is dirt.
Adam was created from Dirt.
Call it the earthen container....if you prefer.
Get yourself a Dime-store NT and read Genesis., and find out.

These childish responses betray your immaturity when challenged to defend you beliefs.....it is apparent that when we see these responses, that you cannot answer the questions that put you on the spot. So you deflect with sarcasm.

You are teaching demonic Jehovah's Witness CULT Theolog = on a Christian forum and are confused by the reality that no one agrees with you, unless they are a JW.
I mean really.......you can't figure that out @Aunty Jane . ??
This is not a Jehovah's Witness Cult forum.
Do you undersatand this yet?

I don’t think you understand how immature these responses are....I offer you Scripture for everything I believe whist all I get from you is put downs......if you could scripturally defend what you believe that would be a different story.....when you cannot defend...you attack. Yet your own beliefs are not widely accepted here either....go figure...
You preach Paul...not Jesus....not Peter, not Matthew, and not John, yet they were part of the 12, and Paul was not. He fulfilled a ministry that required an education that the 12 did not have. And he did so brilliantly as Jesus knew he would.

Jews are the elect, and the born again are elected "In Christ" by Faith.

Faith Elects, and God saves.

All the first Christians were natural Jews, but Paul was proof that God had a later ministry for the Gentiles too, many of whom were misled by Greek philosophy, and all the apostles would have a part of that ministry which you religate to Paul alone. He handled the educated ones with his knowledge of Scripture and higher education, but the 12 were chosen because it would have been an impediment to Jesus’ ministry to the “lost sheep”....Jesus was not sent to the educated ones, so he and his disciples presented the truth to the common people because they too were of their ilk. Jesus came from a poor background.

The big picture is completely absent from your theology which paints God as some sadistic fiend who wants only small minded people whom he can scare into submission with threats of eternal damnation.....be careful what you wish for, is all I can say to you.

 

[Behold]

Their priesthood is served in heaven, not on earth.

Wrong again.

The NT in 1 Peter says that all born again Christians are a """Royal Priesthood"".....right now.

Later, during the Millennial (1000 yr) reign of Christ in Israel, the CHRISTians will be ruling and reigning with The Lord Jesus THE Christ.

Immortals don’t live on earth..

Wrong again.

The spirit in a person never dies, and its going depart from the Body that will be buried or cremated.

Paul teaches this (regarding the Born again) as......."Absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord"

One is “born again” only in heaven.....

One of the worst Jehovah's Witness "doctrines of devils" (among so very many)... is that this Satanid CULT falsely teaches that Christians are not born again on earth.
And in Fact, its by being born again on earth that we become a CHRISTian., as a '"new Creation in Christ".... who is currently "seated in heavenly places" "in Christ".

Paul wrote in Eph 1:13-14...
“You, too, have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed in the Messiah, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit...the guarantee of our inheritance UNTIL God redeems his own possession for his praise and glory.”

Christians are already redeemed by the Redeemer, who is Jesus.
What the REDEEMED by the Blood of The Lamb are waiting for, is the Rapture and their NEW BODY.

There it is again......where did this “hell” come from? Not from God..

As i defined you yesterday, you have a narrow minded warped view of God.
You believe He's Love without Justice, Grace without Judgement.
StSteven here on the Forum is another one who just can't accept that God is not just LOVE, but He's also JUST and the Eternal Judge.

Yesterday....I gave you some examples of God ending the lives of a lot of people.
You had nothing to say, because you can't face the reality of being not just wrong but deceived by a demonic Cult.

So.......Let me now show you where God killed 2 people in a Church.

Killed them..

= Ananias and Sapphira

God killed them both.

See, you are a silly woman, a religious pretender, who has no idea yet that.... "its a FEARFUL thing to fall into the hands of the Living God".

Now...Let me give you 2 more examples of the Real God, who is not just "LOVE" and "KISSES".

A.) If you cheat or defraud another Christian then "Jesus will avenge this personally". = 1 Thess 4:6

And one more for you..

B.) 2 Thess 1:8-9..........is God as Christ coming to "in Flaming fire to deal out VENGEANCE"......against "all who do not obey the Gospel".

You should get a dictionary and look up "VENGEANCE".. and then apply it to this verse..."JESUS the same Yesterday, Today, and Forever".

See that God? See that Jesus?
You dont know the REAL them., and that is why you have no idea what you talking about when you try to explain God's nature, or Christ's nature, or anything else regarding the New Testament and New Covenant.

Your theological Ignorance is "gone to seed".....totally. @Aunty Jane

Even the Devil knows that """God created Hell for the Devil and His Angels """ as even the Devil has actually read the verse in a bible.
However, His Dark Light ministers teach that Hell does not exist, and they are Legion as you would know.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Wrong again.

In your learned opinion.....which has been shown so many times to be sadly lacking even in the most basic biblical knowledge....you know your own theology....but you know precious little about how to interpret the Bible. You have one foot in Christendom and the other in “no man’s land”.
What “brand” of “Christianity” do you operate under?

The NT in 1 Peter says that all born again Christians are a """Royal Priesthood"".....right now.

Later, during the Millennial (1000 yr) reign of Christ in Israel, the CHRISTians will be ruling and reigning with The Lord Jesus THE Christ.

Peter was a Jew, as were all the other apostles, and held Jewish belief about the coming Kingdom of God, about which the prophets had borne witness. The one thing that they did not discern about the Kingdom, is that it was to serve redeemed mankind from heaven, where the grand spiritual Temple is now located in “New Jerusalem”. You have heard of “heavenly Jerusalem”.... I hope...or perhaps not.

Paul wrote about it.....in Heb 12:22-24....you know Paul’s writings......?
“...you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.”(ESV)

Does this sound like an earthly setting to you? This was about the future...an amazing future for them to contemplate....

Wrong again.

Maybe it’s you who is “wrong again”.....your track record is not looking too good right now...

The spirit in a person never dies, and its going depart from the Body that will be buried or cremated.

Paul teaches this (regarding the Born again) as......."Absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord"

“Absent from the body” means being released from a fleshly body that lives on earth, to a spiritual body that can dwell in the presence of God in heaven. They were promised a transformation, remember? They die in their flesh, but are resurrected in a spirit body, the same as Jesus was. (1 Pet 3:18) Jesus was dead in his tomb for 3 days ...the apostles and other believers who were sealed with Holy Spirit in advance of their gaining fulfilment of the promises, had to be “born again” in a spiritual body so as the take up their assignments in heaven. As you have been shown, this was not to take place until Christ’s return....Paul said so.

One of the worst Jehovah's Witness "doctrines of devils" (among so very many)... is that this Satanid CULT falsely teaches that Christians are not born again on earth.
And in Fact, its by being born again on earth that we become a CHRISTian., as a '"new Creation in Christ".... who is currently "seated in heavenly places" "in Christ".

Here we go again...when backed into a corner you come out snarling.....can you not just answer what is asked for you? This is getting old....
What satanic cult are you part of?.....asking for a friend...

Christians are already redeemed by the Redeemer, who is Jesus.
What the REDEEMED by the Blood of The Lamb are waiting for, is the Rapture and their NEW BODY.

Again you show that you have no idea what redemption is.....

Put in a modern setting, so that anyone reading this exchange can get some understanding of how redemption worked in Israel....if you went to a pawn shop and exchanged an item for cash with the express intention of redeeming it once you had the money to buy it back, when does the redemption take place?
You don’t have the redeemed item until payment is made and it is back in your possession....correct?

Jesus died almost 2000 years ago to redeem the human race from sin and death.....so why are we still in sin and still dying? Where are we in that redemption process?

As i defined you yesterday, you have a narrow minded warped view of God.

Oh please....enough with the childish put downs as if that excuses your inability to answer the simplest questions....

You believe He's Love without Justice, Grace without Judgement.
StSteven here on the Forum is another one who just can't accept that God is not just LOVE, but He's also JUST and the Eternal Judge.

God’s love is in complete balance with his justice. One does not outweigh the other. So justice can be tempered with mercy if it is warranted, but meted out without sentiment when it called to do so.

So how was this demonstrated in Israel’s laws? The punishment was always in proportion to the severity of the crime.
How is eternal hellfire a just punishment for a short lifetime of sin?...especially when the sin in us is not our fault as children of Adam....why would God need to punish anyone eternally anyway?

Yesterday....I gave you some examples of God ending the lives of a lot of people.
You had nothing to say, because you can't face the reality of being not just wrong but deceived by a demonic Cult.

The one thing you failed to highlight in any of your examples is that death was the punishment and involved no prolonged torture of any kind. Even the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were wiped off the map in one almighty act of fiery destruction. The people died.....just like the people of Noah’s day...they drowned...it takes a few minutes.

Ananias and Sapphira were struck dead...instantaneously. So your examples again show your complete lack of understanding about who God is and what his justice entails. There is no higher penalty than death...the other idea has its roots in pagan religion....the author of which is the ruler of this world ( 2 Cor 4:3-4) who has the majority barking up the wrong tree....in fact there are so many trees to bark at, all you hear is the rabble....what a confused mess!

You should get a dictionary and look up "VENGEANCE".. and then apply it to this verse..."JESUS the same Yesterday, Today, and Forever".

See that God? See that Jesus?
You dont know the REAL them., and that is why you have no idea what you talking about when you try to explain God's nature, or Christ's nature, or anything else regarding the New Testament and New Covenant.

Perhaps it is you who need to look up what these things mean, and correlate them to the whole Bible instead of limiting your attention to just Paul who was one of God’s many secretaries.

God’s vengeance is the exercise of his justice....it’s not revenge, which is what you seem to relish.

Your theological Ignorance is "gone to seed".....totally. @Aunty Jane

Don’t look now but yours has gone to pot....I would rather “theological ignorance” over “biblical ignorance” any day....I am a student and teacher of the Bible, and have been for over 50 years.....Bible study is wonderful! You should try it some time. I am always finding new facets to the diamond every week.

Even the Devil knows that """God created Hell for the Devil and His Angels """ as even the Devil has actually read the verse in a bible.
However, His Dark Light ministers teach that Hell does not exist, and they are Legion as you would know.

You should also know that the devil is a master of disguise....who can also “transform himself into an angel of light” drawing gullible people in with a pinch of truth peppered with false teachings.
Too soft or too harsh...neither of these are representative of the true God.

Jesus is our judge and he sees the way we view his God.....either it is the way he does...or it’s the way the devil wants to portray him with all the awful characteristics that are so unappealing, except to those who relish the thought of such things as eternal torture....it says a lot about a person.

Who was it that showed these characteristics in the early centuries of the Inquisition? Torture was their stock in trade...forced confessions gave them grounds for their heinous crimes. You are in good company.
Be careful that you are not sending others to where you may end up yourself....(1 Cor 10:12)

There is no “hell” in the Bible and the devil knows that he will spend 1000 years in the abyss with his cronies, but after that, he will be released, and all redeemed mankind will face one final test before being granted everlasting life in paradise on earth....this time permanently. (Rev 20:1-3; Rev 21:2-4)

Only then will all rebels be dispatched forever, never to darken our lives again...not suffering in a torture chamber forever, but permanently annihilated....never to even be remembered again.

John 3:16....read every word carefully....and see where “apollym” (perish) is contrasted with “aiōnios zōē” (everlasting life)

“apollym” is defined as....

“to destroy

1. to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin
2. render useless
3. to kill” (Strongs)

This is life or death....no immortal soul....no eternal torture.

Your theology is so weak it makes me shake my head......you have twisted scripture, arguing with real scripture...it’s all upside down and back to front.

 

[jaybird]

the free salvation is free after you do work which makes little sense to me. like my free paycheck i get after working all week.
another odd thing with this, you cant earn it!!! those that teach this act like "earn" is the act of doing something seedy and shameful which is really weird. the drug dealer that sold drugs to grade school kids and then tried to earn salvation, wicked shame!

 

[Behold]

In your learned opinion.....which has been shown so many times to be sadly lacking even in the most basic biblical knowledge..

JW theology does not prove anything other then its JW Theology.
Its one of the devil's finest theological achievements, along with Islam and Christian Science, and MaryCult.

See you there next time @Aunty Jane

Does this sound like an earthly setting to you?

Jesus wwill begin His 1000 yr Millennial Reign, with the "bride of Christ', ..(All the born again).

Maybe it’s you who is “wrong again”.....your track record is not looking too good right now...

A JW trying to teach the NT is viewed by Real Christians as " sounds kinda crazy".
Really.

“Absent from the body” means

Absent from my body means, the body is Dead, and the spirit has gone to God or to Hell.
In Paul's case, because He's born again........He didnt go to Hell.
If you are not born again before you die, then you will go to Hell.

JOHN 3:36 is not a MYTH.

Here we go again...when backed into a corner you come out snarling.....can you not just answer what is asked for you? This is getting old....
What satanic cult are you part of?.....asking for a friend...

(KJV) Hebrews 13:9........states that "doctrines of devils" will get your mind if you do not establish your heart with Grace.

However, you can't do that with your heart, if you are not born again.

Again you show that you have no idea what redemption is.....

John 3:16 is redemption.

Jesus is Salvation.

The Cross of Christ that is John 14:6, is the Blood Atonement, that is the New Covenant, .......= this is redemption.

Jesus died almost 2000 years ago to redeem the human race from sin and death.....so why are we still in sin and still dying?

Jesus redeemed the Christian from the eternal 2nd Death.........not the death of their body.
He didnt redeem our BODY........and the "body is dead becasue of Sin", and will die.
This is why the CHRISTIAN gets a new body.

God’s love is in complete balance with his justice.

Ive shown you some of the acts of God whereby He judged and people died.
You have nothing to say, because your god isn't related to the real one.

How is eternal hellfire a just punishment for a short lifetime of sin?.

Hell isn't the initial punishment for sin.
Its the initial judgement for not becoming a Born again Christian before you died, which saves you from Hell.

John 3:36 (KJV) is not a Myth.

Ananias and Sapphira were struck dead...instantaneously.

And who killed them?

"Jesus the same yesterday, today, and forever".

"I and my Father are one".

"If you've seen me, you've seen the Father".

God’s vengeance is the exercise of his justice....it’s not revenge, which is what you seem to relish.

The point is that God is going to end a lot of LIVES, before the Trib is over.
Jehovath's Witness, cult theology, can't understand this reality.

You should also know that the devil is a master of disguise..

Satan disguises Himself as "JW" theology.......among others.

John 3:16..

All who believe and are born again HAVE = eternal life.
They are not waiting to get it, as they are already "seated in heavenly places" "In Christ"......because they have it.

Salvaton is 3 Gifts.

"The Gift of Salvation"
"The Gift of Righteousness"
"The Gift of Eternal life".

Who has those?

Only the BORN AGAIN., and you can't be born again after you die.