The founding fathers of modern-day Premillennialism were heretics - see the evidence

[Bladerunner]

You haven't addressed the central issue.

How can seventy weeks be determined when your seventieth week is undetermined?

unsettled, undecided
you have not shown me anything that could change anything.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Historic evidence points to the fact that Jesus was crucified in AD30.

Christ was born on 7B.C.

1BC
(No Zero)
1AD

Anointed and Baptism of Christ 29A.D.

Death of Christ on the Cross 33 A.D. at age 40

(1) The first part (7 weeks) relates to the rebuilding of Jerusalem. The angel said of the first aspect relating to the rebuilding of Jerusalem, in the first seven weeks, “the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.”

Daniel 9:25

• Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build again Jerusalem unto Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

The words, 'know therefore' ties the preceding verses with these verses. It's just as if I were to say, 'The skies are cloudy, know therefore that there may be rain.' The first part of the sentence is intimately related to the second part. Likewise, 'know therefore' shows that the preceding verses are intimately related to the following verses. And we'll see that as we go along.
We can also notice something peculiar in this verse. Namely, God has separated the seven weeks (sevens), from the sixty-two weeks. God could have very easily said sixty-nine weeks, but He didn't. This should give us all a reason for pause, since we know that God does nothing without a purpose. I am amazed at the number of people doing a study of Daniel chapter 9 who just pass over this obvious division as if it doesn't even exist. They just add the two periods together, never giving it a second thought. That is not careful, nor sound exegesis. God didn't separate these just to add more words, nor to have us ignore it. He Did it for a reason, and it's our job to study the scriptures diligently to find out why.

From the language of verse 25, the 7 weeks come first, and then the 62 weeks follow. That's not a division that I made, that's a division that God made. We should 'not' ignore it! Actually, the 70 weeks are broken down into 3 periods by God. The 7 weeks, the 62 Weeks, and then the the Final week that the Covenant is confirmed. We should not lose sight of that 'Fact,' because it's very important!

We need to go about this systematically. There are three points in this verse to consider. The first point is the word to go forth and build again Jerusalem. The second point is the 7 weeks (sevens), and the third point is the 62 weeks (sevens). Why is the 7 sevens separated from the 62 sevens? Carefully comparing scripture with scripture we find that 7 sevens or weeks are used in the Bible to illustrate a Jubilee period. It's the Biblical principle of weeks of years which these 70 weeks represent. God by the separation of the 7 weeks is alerting us to a jubilee period.

Leviticus 25:8

• "and thou shalt number seven Sabbaths of years unto thee, SEVEN TIMES SEVEN years; and the space of the seven Sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years."

Leviticus 25:10

• "and ye shall Hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a Jubile unto you; .."

The seven weeks and the seven weeks of years are all pointing to the Jubile of the Lord when the firstfruits will come in.

Deuteronomy 16:9-10

• "Seven weeks shalt thou number unto thee: begin to number the seven weeks from such time as thou beginnest to put the sickle to the corn.
• And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the LORD thy God with a tribute of a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give unto the LORD thy God, according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee: "

The exact same 7 sevens or weeks that we see in Daniel chapter 9. These things are pointing to Christ, the jubilee when there is liberty and the firstfruits are come.

Leviticus 23:15-16

• "And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
• Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD".

This is the seven weeks which Daniel 9 is illustrative of. To simply count Daniel 9 as 49 years (7 x 7), and add it to the 434 years (62 X 7) is to totally ignore the context, and the rest of scripture. If that were to be the proper course, would God not have have just said 69 weeks? Of Course! The very fact that God broke these up into periods tells us that this method is an unsound way of looking at this passage.

Another popular teaching is a computation where Theologians take all the days between 445 B.C. and 32 B.C., and divide the product by 360 days. The problem I have with this is there is no 'Scriptural' basis for doing this. In other words, there is no Biblical warrant or validation for taking such an action. Scripture is not given so we can setup our own mathematical equations in order to arrive where we want. It is given that we consider wisely what God has put there, and comparing scripture with scripture, follow it where God leads.

Based on this principle of comparing scripture with scripture, I think that the 7 times seven in Daniel 9, represent this reference to a Jubilee year. I believe God is telling us that, from the Word to build again Jerusalem, to Messiah the Prince shall be 7 sevens (weeks of years), and then 62 sevens. In weeks of years, that is 434 years. As stated, clearly, if God was just talking about adding years, why would He separate the 7 sevens from the 62 sevens. Obviously, He wants us to distinguish the 7 sevens from the 62 sevens. If the 7 sevens point to a Jubilee year, then we have our answer PERFECTLY. When was the Word given to build again Jerusalem?

Nehemiah 2:17

• "Then said I unto them, ye see the distress that ye are in, how Jerusalem lieth waste, and the gates thereof are burned with fire: come, and let us build up the wall of Jerusalem, that we be no more a reproach. Then I told them of the hand of My God which was good upon me; as also the King's word that he had spoken unto me. And they said, let us rise up and build, so they strengthened their hands for this good work."

Most theologians are in agreement of when the command was given to build again Jerusalem. So the first Jubilee year from the Word to build again Jerusalem (445 B.C. Nehemiah 2:1, 17-20) was 407 B.C. This date of 407 B.C. is the start of the first 7 sevens (Jubilee) 'from' the command to build again Jerusalem. That is the designation to the 7 sevens. And after this Jubilee, from 406 B.C. to 434 years later (reckoned from the end of the seven weeks, 62 X 7, or weeks after the 7 or Jubilee year) brings us 'directly' to 29 A.D.. After the jubilee year is 406 when the 62 weeks begin. 62 times 7 is 434, and 434 years from this year 406 brings us to the year 29 A.D., which we can mathematically check rather easily:

406 years Old Testament
+29 years New Testament
--------
435

We then subtract 1 because there is no year 0, and that gives us 434.

(Continue to next post)

 

[TribulationSigns]

(Continue from previous post)

The question now becomes, does this bring us to the year of the coming of Messiah the Prince, and the anointing of the Holy of HOLIEST? (remember, this is what Daniel says. It's 62 X 7 after the 7 x7 to the coming of Messiah the Prince). And so in order to be faithful to scripture, the 434 years must lead to the coming of Messiah the Prince, without any twisting, wresting or fudging. And Magnificently, it does! When We go to the scriptures, we see that this is the exact year that Christ officially began His role as high priest. This is the year He was Anointed by the Holy Spirit and was 'announced' and baptized by John the Baptist. This is when God had the dove descend upon Him, and of His officially taking on His office. This is the year when (as it was written), John, having prepared the way, gave way to Christ. John had prepared the way for this, 'His Coming!'

This is why John said that now he had to decrease, while Christ increased. This is why Jesus said, 'the TIME is fulfilled, the Kingdom of God is at hand.' This is the acceptable year, this is the time of His anointing. This is when Jesus went to the Temple, opened up the book of Isaiah, and read:

Luke 4:18-21

• "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He hath Anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
• to preach the Acceptable Year of the Lord.
• and He closed the book, and He gave it again to the minister and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on Him.
• and He began to say unto them, This day is this scripture Fulfilled in your ears."

Is this the acceptable Year? That's what the scriptures tell us! Not only is it confirmed by Christ Himself that this is the acceptable year, Jesus goes a step further and tells us plainly, "This DAY is this scripture fulfilled in your ears." In other words, that prophecy of the coming of Messiah was talking about this year, this time. And Jesus went out and was ANOINTED by the Holy Spirit. This was the year of the official anointing of the Messiah. John had prepared the way, and Jesus came after (John 1:30), to preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And He preaches for 3 and 1/2 years, and was crucified in 33 A.D.

(2) The second part (62 weeks) takes up to the beginning of Christ’s earthly ministry.

Daniel 9:26

• "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war, desolations are determined."

After the 62 weeks, AFTER this time of the coming of Messiah, He will be cut off. The language of being 'Cut Off' in the scriptures is the language of God's judgment. But NOTE it says, 'but not for Himself.' That is because Messiah was cut off for the sins of 'His People!'

No need for me to explain this further if you have spiritual ears to hear.

(3) The third part (1 week) commences with the start of Christ’s earthly ministry and sees the crucifixion half way through it (3 ½ yrs). The other 3 ½ yrs saw the Church receive its baptism of fire at Pentecost and enter into the fulfilment of advancing the Gospel – the nations now being open to the Gospel, unlike before.

The final week has nothing to do with Christ’s earthly ministry—His baptism, His public ministry, and so on. Instead, the final week began when Christ went to the Cross, where He confirmed the covenant with His blood. Look it up in Hebrew 9:14-17. Scripture says Messiah the Prince was “cut off” (death) after the 62 weeks, and He confirmed the final week of covenant. This marked the beginning of the final covenant week, which extends from the Cross all the way to the consummation—the Second Coming and the sounding of the Last Trump.

 

[covenantee]

unsettled, undecided
you have not shown me anything that could change anything.

You have not shown me that you have an answer to the question.

 

[Bladerunner]

(Continue from previous post)

The question now becomes, does this bring us to the year of the coming of Messiah the Prince, and the anointing of the Holy of HOLIEST? (remember, this is what Daniel says. It's 62 X 7 after the 7 x7 to the coming of Messiah the Prince). And so in order to be faithful to scripture, the 434 years must lead to the coming of Messiah the Prince, without any twisting, wresting or fudging. And Magnificently, it does! When We go to the scriptures, we see that this is the exact year that Christ officially began His role as high priest. This is the year He was Anointed by the Holy Spirit and was 'announced' and baptized by John the Baptist. This is when God had the dove descend upon Him, and of His officially taking on His office. This is the year when (as it was written), John, having prepared the way, gave way to Christ. John had prepared the way for this, 'His Coming!'

This is why John said that now he had to decrease, while Christ increased. This is why Jesus said, 'the TIME is fulfilled, the Kingdom of God is at hand.' This is the acceptable year, this is the time of His anointing. This is when Jesus went to the Temple, opened up the book of Isaiah, and read:

Luke 4:18-21

• "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He hath Anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
• to preach the Acceptable Year of the Lord.
• and He closed the book, and He gave it again to the minister and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on Him.
• and He began to say unto them, This day is this scripture Fulfilled in your ears."

Is this the acceptable Year? That's what the scriptures tell us! Not only is it confirmed by Christ Himself that this is the acceptable year, Jesus goes a step further and tells us plainly, "This DAY is this scripture fulfilled in your ears." In other words, that prophecy of the coming of Messiah was talking about this year, this time. And Jesus went out and was ANOINTED by the Holy Spirit. This was the year of the official anointing of the Messiah. John had prepared the way, and Jesus came after (John 1:30), to preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And He preaches for 3 and 1/2 years, and was crucified in 33 A.D.




Daniel 9:26

• "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war, desolations are determined."

After the 62 weeks, AFTER this time of the coming of Messiah, He will be cut off. The language of being 'Cut Off' in the scriptures is the language of God's judgment. But NOTE it says, 'but not for Himself.' That is because Messiah was cut off for the sins of 'His People!'

No need for me to explain this further if you have spiritual ears to hear.

I agree, 62 weeks plus the first seven weeks = 69 weeks. see Dan 9:25-26

The final week has nothing to do with Christ’s earthly ministry—His baptism, His public ministry, and so on. Instead, the final week began when Christ went to the Cross, where He confirmed the covenant with His blood. Look it up in Hebrew 9:14-17. Scripture says Messiah the Prince was “cut off” (death) after the 62 weeks, and He confirmed the final week of covenant. This marked the beginning of the final covenant week, which extends from the Cross all the way to the consummation—the Second Coming and the sounding of the Last Trump.

Don't agree. Look to 9:25...."Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: " that is 69 weeks. for there is a seven week period that was used to rebuild Jerusalem and the temple. Add that to the 62 weeks where Jesus was cutoff (crucified),you have 69 weeks, there is still one more week to go and it has not started yet.

 

[TribulationSigns]

there is still one more week to go and it has not started yet.

Typical Premillennial fantasy—an imaginary 2,000-year gap pulled out of thin air. Sorry, but that interpretation doesn’t hold water. Christ confirmed the covenant when He died. Ever crack open Hebrews 9, or did you just skip that part?

Heb 9:14-17
(14) How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
(15) And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
(16) For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
(17) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

The testament is a covenant—like a living will. It is an inheritance for His people! It doesn’t take effect until the person dies. Once Christ died, the everlasting covenant becomes a force or make strong. That’s exactly how Christ confirmed the covenant with us so that we could receive inheritance as His people, SPIRITUAL Israel -- like He promised to Abraham.

But no, it has nothing to do with your make-believe “peace treaty” between the Antichrist and the nation Israel. This is typical false premillennial doctrine!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

If you are not, then you are in trouble. You are not His! Very sobering!!! This is the danger of dispensatanism.

Jesus said in John 3:3: "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again [Gr. anōthen], he cannot see the kingdom of God."

But the word “again” (in “born again”) is taken from the Greek word anōthen; meaning "from above."

When we get saved, when we are raised from the grave of our sin, we are birthed from above.

Interestingly, in the same chapter in verse 31, John the Baptist testified of Jesus, "He that cometh from above [Gr. anōthen] is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all."

Christ was a heavenly man who became an earthly man so that we earthly men could become heavenly men. He was from above. When Christ came to this earth mankind encountered heaven face-to-face. God had stepped out of eternity into time.

When we come to Christ, the world loses its charm. It is not our home. Heaven is! A Christian is no longer earth-bound or worldly, they are heavenly!

Ephesians 2:4-6 says, “God … hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”

Ephesians 1:3 also corroborates, saying, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ.”

How are we seated in heavenly places?

Because He is! Remember, we are in Him! We are one with Him! His life is our life. We are hidden in Him. He is our legal head!

• He lived on our behalf.
• He died on our behalf.
• He rose from the dead on our behalf.
• He reigns in heaven tonight on our behalf.

We are spiritually united to Him!

Jesus is described as “the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die” (John 6:50).

Jesus testified Himself in John 8:23: "Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."

When we partake of Him we partake of the heavenly realm. It is this that gives us our citizenship is in heaven. It is this the causes us to lay up our treasure in heaven. We are no longer earthlings, but heavenly creatures.

Philippians 3:20 tells us that “our citizenship is [now] in heaven.”

Heaven is a different world. It is governed by different rules. It is different priorities. Its focus is the glory of God. Righteousness is everything. Justice prevails. Order is its environment. Peace, joy and rest are what results.

Hebrews 12:22 says (in the present tense), “ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem.”

For Christians, our positional status should more and more become our experiential status, the more we grow in Christ.

Oh, so now you are implying that I am not a Christian? I'm done you. Covenantee too. Bye

 

[WPM]

Oh, so now you are implying that I am not a Christian? I'm done you. Covenantee too. Bye

Bye, bye. You can mock, you can taunt, you can give it, but you cannot take it.

 

[PinSeeker]

You're already up there ... seated with Him? Really?

Paul says we are, in Ephesians 2:5-6, as I said. And I would tell you that it's in the same way that Jesus is with us now... just as He said He would be, in Matthew 28:20.

Describe what you see ... what does heaven look like?

<chuckles>

That statement is in a spiritual sense... you have not been literally raised (resurrected) yet.

Well, by and in the Holy Spirit. Again, having been born again of the Holy Spirit, we have been made alive together with Christ, and raised up with Him ~ this is a resurrection, our sharing in the first resurrection (Revelation 20) ~ and seated with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus... and so every bit as true none the less.

...you have not experienced or seen heaven visibly.

I didn't say otherwise.

You have not been literaly raised (resurrected) yet.

Right, of course; there will be the physical resurrection upon Jesus's return.

Yes, one day our faith will be sight.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Bladerunner]

Typical Premillennial fantasy—an imaginary 2,000-year gap pulled out of thin air. Sorry, but that interpretation doesn’t hold water. Christ confirmed the covenant when He died. Ever crack open Hebrews 9, or did you just skip that part?

Heb 9:14-17
(14) How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
(15) And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
(16) For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
(17) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

The testament is a covenant—like a living will. It is an inheritance for His people! It doesn’t take effect until the person dies. Once Christ died, the everlasting covenant becomes a force or make strong. That’s exactly how Christ confirmed the covenant with us so that we could receive inheritance as His people, SPIRITUAL Israel -- like He promised to Abraham.

But no, it has nothing to do with your make-believe “peace treaty” between the Antichrist and the nation Israel. This is typical false premillennial doctrine!

You mean like a living Bible...that is the same as a testament covenant. It covers those who believe in the covenant. Yet the real translation of the death of the testator, seals the end of the Old Testament and begins the New Testament. While I read the Bible, Literally, Historically and grammatically to get to the truth, it seems covenant theology has a covenant of GOD for just about everything. Good luck.

 

[WPM]

You mean like a living Bible...that is the same as a testament covenant. It covers those who believe in the covenant. Yet the real translation of the death of the testator, seals the end of the Old Testament and begins the New Testament. While I read the Bible, Literally, Historically and grammatically to get to the truth, it seems covenant theology has a covenant of GOD for just about everything. Good luck.

Can AI translate this into English?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, Peter was describing the nation Israel as it had been called to be--not necessarily as it currently was. Israel, in Peter's time, was only being properly represented by Christian believers in Israel. Peter's letters were being directed to Jewish believers.

This is shameful. It does NOT say "you are called to be a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people" in 1 Peter 2:9, it says "you ARE a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people". Why are you twisting God's holy word to make it say what you want it to say? Have you no conscience?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

As I said, Peter was applying it to Jewish *Christians.* Terms like "nation" and "priesthood" were unmistakeably Jewish terms.

Did you somehow forget that you had said "Peter was describing the nation Israel as it had been called to be--not necessarily as it currently was."? Can you not make up your mind?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

All you have is a preterist view of Eschatology. Preterists symbolize scriptures that should be literally interpreted to conform to their beliefs.
It's okay, we di not have to enter into an argument that has always proven to be a future one. Keep your view. But soon these events in Revelation will unfold - then what will you say? You'll quickly trash your view.
But again, since you call Premillennialism heretical, pray to be exempt from all these so called heresies! You won't!
Maybe since you are not expecting an imminent return of Christ and redemption - God won't give you one?
Maybe you are likened to the 5 virgins who did not have oil for their lamps?

What is wrong with you? Do you understand that the 5 foolish virgins represent people to whom Jesus will say that He doesn't know them and who will be cast into the fire? Why would you suggest that anyone here are like them? When did you decide that you are the Judge instead of Jesus?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

“No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,

>> Death still exist ms in the Millennial Kingdom! BUT AFTER the MK, Death and Hades are destroyed. This is still the 1st earth, just restored.

But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.

>> building houses and planting vineyards is NOT describing the New Jerusalem ( a new heaven on a new earth). Thr New Jerusalem replaces the 1st EARTH. THE Lord prepared dwellings for us and the fruited trees described that changearenot like what we plant now.
"And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month."
Additionally outside the New Jerusalem, there isno sun or moon (first heavens that passed away.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. 18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. 19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. 20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

So, you think people will die and no one will mourn their deaths? This is in relation to the new heavens and new earth. John makes it clear that there will be no more death when the new heavens and new earth are ushered in (Revelation 21:1-4), so why are you interpreting Isaiah 65:20 in such a way that contradicts what John taught about the new heavens and new earth? Also, Peter said that the new heavens and new earth will be a place where righteousness dwells. Why do you contradict Peter by interpreting Isaiah 65:20 in such a way that the new heavens and new earth will also be a place where wickedness dwells?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Do they not read the New Testament?

No, they do not. Dispensationalists have almost no understanding of the New Testament whatsoever. At least, when it come to anything end times related.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You can't use scripture to support your argument because all scripture is in harmony with itself. All of Rev. 20 is to be understood literally.
"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."
>> " And I saw thrones ..." <<
Where?. There is only one throne in heaven. This vision is of earthly thrones.

>>>" And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded"<<
Christians who were martyred during the Great Tribulation ... what happenned to them?
They were resurrected!
>>>"they lived and reigned with Christ 1000 years"

How does your literal understanding of Revelation 20 line up with these scriptures:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Do you take these scriptures literally? Apparently not, because if you did you wouldn't be a Premil. Explain to me how any mortal will survive the return of Christ when He comes as a thief in the night to burn up the heavens, the elements and the earth?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We unequivocally reject a futurized literalized carnalized temporalized racialized millennial kingdom.

We're not alone.

Co-sign.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You haven't addressed the central issue.

How can seventy weeks be determined when your seventieth week is undetermined?

Dispensationalists can never answer this question. They either don't understand or just plain ignore that their understanding of the 70 weeks blatantly contradicts the fact that the 70 weeks were determined. That means a 70 week time period, which most of us agree represents 490 years, was determined for the six things listed in Daniel 9:24 to be fulfilled. Which means from the beginning of the 490 years, which would begin with the commandment to restore and rebuild Jerusalem,, those six things were to be fulfilled within 490 years from then and before the end of the 490th year, as determined by God.

But, dispensationalists inexplicably make 69 of the weeks determined and the 70th week undetermined. So, they turn a prophecy that was to be fulfilled within 490 years of when it began to a prophecy that is to be fulfilled in an undetermined amount of time from when it began around 2,500 years ago or so. So, they are going to end up being at least around 2,000 years off in their understanding of the fulfillment of the 70th week.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I doubt Jesus will carnalize or racialize His kingdom. Speaking so negatively about His Kingdom may backfire on you.

Speaking falsely about the nature of His kingdom may backfire on you. His kingdom is not of this world (not worldly, but heavenly in nature - John 18:36), did not come with observation (Luke 17:20) and "is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit (Romans 14:17).

Do you deny that Jesus is your King right now and that you have been rescued from darkness and brought into His kingdom?

Colossians 1:12 and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light. 13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,