The deepest human desire. - The longing to be safe at home.

[Aunty Jane]

St. SteVen said:
Obviously, there is more than one view on this.

There is more than one view on many things....we are the ones who decide which view we will adopt.
By the use of our free will, we decide our own destiny.

Yes, of course.
No reason not to visit it again.
Did you lay the question to rest for all time?
Is your opinion authoritative?
(I'm not being combative)

As I have said many times before...I am not the judge of anyone....just a messenger.
No one is under obligation to agree with me, but each of us is choosing a position whereby Jesus can separate “sheep from goats”. Which one are we?

Those whom Jesus rejects at the judgment are shocked because they are so sure that their “Christianity” is based on Scriptural truth....and yet Jesus says to them “I never knew you”.....get away from me you workers of lawlessness”.........
”Never” means “not ever”....so not from the beginning of the apostasy that he foretold, has Christ set foot in man made doctrinally enslaved, hopelessly divided, Christendom.

In support of my view, the sleep of death is from an earthly perspective.
The dead appear to be asleep.

Where does it say that? It says that the dead are dead. Death is the opposite of life. It’s a simple concept.
Death is likened to a sleep because that is how death appears to us. There is no mention of an immortal soul that departs from the body at death to go anywhere....that idea came from the pagan Greeks, not from the Bible.

And in Ecclesiastes, dead is again an earthly view.
A reference to physical death "under the sun".

Solomon uses this expression a few times in Ecclesiastes to indicate life in this world. (Eccl 1:2-9)
He makes the statement that there is “nothing new under the sun”, meaning things done in the repetitions of life as we know it....day to day....sunrise to sunrise.
Because the Jews did not have belief in an immortal soul, death was the unconscious condition that takes place when we stop breathing. (Ecco 9:5, 10) Death is reversed by resurrection. Where was Lazarus before Jesus raised him? (John 11:11-14) “Sleeping”.

Souls are not separate from the body....they cannot exist without a body, which is why they need to be “born again” in a new body. According to Paul there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. Those of the elect are resurrected and given a spiritual body, but not until Christ’s return.

1 Cor 15:40-45....
“And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort. 41  The glory of the sun is one sort, and the glory of the moon is another, and the glory of the stars is another; in fact, one star differs from another star in glory.

42  So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption. 43  It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power. 44  It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45  So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.”

Resurrection is a restoration of life....not a continuation of it

 

[Aunty Jane]

Hell is found in the NT verses., so to say its not 'biblical" is ignorant.

To not understand what the biblical “hell” is, is ignorance.

Which “hell” are you referring to? “Hades”? “Gehenna”? “The lake of fire”? or “tartarus”?
What do these different terms means?

You seem to have no idea.

 

[St. SteVen]

By the use of our free will, we decide our own destiny.

So, God's will is subordinate to human will?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Where does it say that? It says that the dead are dead. Death is the opposite of life. It’s a simple concept.

Two kinds of life and two kinds of death.
1) Physical life and death
2) Spiritual life and death

Unbelievers are already dead.

Ephesians 2:1-2 NIV
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world
and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is
now at work in those who are disobedient.

Ephesians 2:4 NIV
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—
it is by grace you have been saved.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Resurrection is a restoration of life....not a continuation of it

A resurrection from where? (the realm of the dead)

Where was Christ for three days before His resurrection? (the heart of the earth)
Note: Christ was laid in above ground tomb.

Matthew 12:40 NIV
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish,
so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

[

 

[walter]

God's promise of a new heavens and a new earth --2 Peter 3:13
God is making all things new. --Revelation 21:5

If we let the Bible's many scriptures in agreement do all the talking shouldn't we believe it?
Is this our home in the next life?

Revelation 21:5
King James Bible
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 5:5
Berean Standard Bible
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

2 Peter 3:13
But in keeping with God’s promise, we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

Revelation 21:1
Berean Literal Bible
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea is no more.

“For just as the new heavens and the new earth that I am making will remain standing before me,” declares Jehovah, “so your offspring and your name will remain.” -Isaiah 66:22

Isaiah 65:17  For look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things will not be called to mind,
Nor will they come up into the heart.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And the righteous ones inherit the Earth and dwell upon it for eternity. -Psalm 37:29

Psalm 37:9
New Living Translation
For the wicked will be destroyed, but those who trust in the LORD will possess the land.

Revelation 21:2
I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

Revelation 3:12
New International Version
The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.

Proverbs 2:21-22
For the upright will inhabit the land, and the blameless will remain in it; / but the wicked will be cut off from the land, and the unfaithful will be uprooted.

Proverbs 2:21
For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it.

Isaiah 60:21
Then all your people will be righteous; they will possess the land forever; they are the branch of My planting, the work of My hands, so that I may be glorified.

• “[God] has established the earth on its foundations; it will not be moved from its place forever and ever.”—Psalm 104:5.
• “The earth remains forever.”—Ecclesiastes 1:4.
• “The One who formed the earth, its Maker who firmly established it, . . . did not create it simply for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited.”—Isaiah 45:18.

 

[walter]

These Scriptures are in agreement, and clearly explain what happens to wicked, evil ones and others, they do not get life, so they do not have the ability to feel pain, Jesus says they are destroyed.
I have listed the wording in different Bibles so we can understand a little better of what the Bible is trying to explain.

Malachi 4:1, Psalm 37:10, Psalm 37:20, Psalm 37:9, Jude 1:7, Matthew 7:13-14, 2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9, John 3:36

Jude 1:7
King James Bible
Even as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Are Sodom and Gomorrah still burning eternally? No it is not. So if they are no longer burning eternally, could it be the eternal punishment Is they are being destroyed and their punishment is they do not get life?, like Jesus explains in this following verse. [ Jesus says in next verse only few find life. ] So if many do not get life, How is it that they can feel anything?

Matthew 7:13-14, 2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9, John 3:36
Berean Standard Bible
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it.

KJV(i) 1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. -Malachi 4:1

Berean Standard Bible
Yet a little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found.
-Psalm 37:10

New King James Version
But the wicked shall perish; And the enemies of the LORD, Like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away. -Psalm 37:20
//////////
Psalm 37:9
New International Version
For those who are evil will be destroyed, but those who hope in the LORD will inherit the land.

New Living Translation
For the wicked will be destroyed, but those who trust in the LORD will possess the land.

English Standard Version
For the evildoers shall be cut off, but those who wait for the LORD shall inherit the land.

Berean Standard Bible
For the evildoers will be cut off, but those who hope in the LORD will inherit the land.

King James Bible
For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

New King James Version
For evildoers shall be cut off; But those who wait on the LORD, They shall inherit the earth.

New American Standard Bible
For evildoers will be eliminated, But those who wait for the LORD, they will inherit the land.

NASB 1995
For evildoers will be cut off, But those who wait for the LORD, they will inherit the land.

NASB 1977
For evildoers will be cut off, But those who wait for the LORD, they will inherit the land.

Legacy Standard Bible
For evildoers will be cut off, But those who hope for Yahweh, they will inherit the land.

Amplified Bible
For those who do evil will be cut off, But those who wait for the LORD, they will inherit the land.

Christian Standard Bible
For evildoers will be destroyed, but those who put their hope in the LORD will inherit the land.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For evildoers will be destroyed, but those who put their hope in the LORD will inherit the land.

American Standard Version
For evil-doers shall be cut off; But those that wait for Jehovah, they shall inherit the land.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Because the wicked are destroyed and those who hope in LORD JEHOVAH inherit the Earth.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
For evil-doers shall be destroyed: but they that wait on the Lord, they shall inherit the land.

Contemporary English Version
All sinners will disappear, but if you trust the LORD, the land will be yours.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For the evildoers shall be cut off : but they that wait upon the Lord shall inherit the land.

English Revised Version
For evil-doers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the land.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Evildoers will be cut off [from their inheritance], but those who wait with hope for the LORD will inherit the land.

Good News Translation
Those who trust in the LORD will possess the land, but the wicked will be driven out.

International Standard Version
Those who do evil will perish. But those who wait on the LORD will inherit the land.

JPS Tanakh 1917
For evil-doers shall be cut off; But those that wait for the LORD, they shall inherit the land.

Literal Standard Version
For evildoers are cut off, | As for those waiting on YHWH, they possess the land.

Majority Standard Bible
For the evildoers will be cut off, but those who hope in the LORD will inherit the land.

New American Bible
Those who do evil will be cut off, but those who wait for the LORD will inherit the earth.

NET Bible
Wicked men will be wiped out, but those who rely on the LORD are the ones who will possess the land.

New Revised Standard Version
For the wicked shall be cut off, but those who wait for the LORD shall inherit the land.

New Heart English Bible
For evildoers shall be cut off, but those who wait for the LORD shall inherit the land.

Webster's Bible Translation
For evil doers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

World English Bible

For evildoers shall be cut off, but those who wait for Yahweh shall inherit the land.

Note: The Bible says burning eternally, But nobody is burning eternally in Sodom and Gomorrah anymore, But their destruction and their ability to be alive has been taken away from them, this is a eternal punishment.

If we agree with one scripture, shouldn't we also agree with the other scriptures collectively and draw a understanding based on all the scriptures we can find on the topic?

Young's Literal Translation
For evil doers are cut off, As to those waiting on Jehovah, they possess the land.

 

[Aunty Jane]

So, God's will is subordinate to human will?

Subordinate? No!.....the application of our free will is how God judges the caliber of what kind of “soul” we are. He allows us to tell him by our beliefs and actions whether we are a soul worthy of Christ’s sacrifice.
He died for all, but it isn’t automatic.....it requires qualification on our part.
No one can earn a free gift but that doesn’t mean we don’t have to qualify by obeying the one who gave us the gift of life. His rules are not negotiable.

Throwing that gift back in God’s face by failing to honour the giver by our strict obedience to his instructions, is the lesson given to us in the Scriptures all the way from Eden until now.

How did God respond when his people disobeyed him. How is that lesson so easily lost on those who want to dictate their own terms of existence and circumvent his reasonable requests? Trace the history....
Didn’t the devil start off this treadmill? Have we learned nothing from the lessons of the past?......any wonder we are still repeating them!

 

[Aunty Jane]

Two kinds of life and two kinds of death.
1) Physical life and death
2) Spiritual life and death

Unbelievers are already dead.

Ephesians 2:1-2 NIV
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world
and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is
now at work in those who are disobedient.

Ephesians 2:4 NIV
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—
it is by grace you have been saved.

Yes...God used physical death to illustrate spiritual death.....we couldn’t equate the two unless understanding physical death came first, and then spiritual death could be understood by comparison.
Being dead or alive spiritually or physically means the same thing. But for the incorrigibly wicked, there will be no resurrection....either spiritually or physically.
Another simple illustration lost on those who can’t handle the truth.

Why is it so hard to understand death?.......simply because we are not created to die......it’s not in us to accept that when we die we go back to where we came from. What was Adam told? (Gen 2:16; 3:19)

Where were you before your parents conceived you?

 

[St. SteVen]

Where were you before your parents conceived you?

I heard that there was a sparkle in my mother's eye. - LOL

[

 

[Aunty Jane]

A resurrection from where? (the realm of the dead)

What is “the realm of the dead”? SHEOL. A place which Solomon described as having no conscious existence.
Eccl 9:5; 10....
“For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. . . . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave [Sheol], where you are going.”

Who was Solomon addressing? God’s people, who all knew what “Sheol” was......the Jewish Tanakh translates it as “the grave”...the place where we all go.

Where does Jesus call all the dead from?
John 5:28-29....
“Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29  and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.”

Both good and bad come out of their “tombs” and are judged worthy of either life or judgment. This is not a judgment of what they did before their death, as the death penalty is the highest payment for any crime committed....so they will be given opportunity to prove their worthiness to live in God’s new earth (2 Peter 3:13)....an earth cleansed of all wickedness, with even the devil and his hordes in a prison for the entire 1000 years of Christ’s reign. (Rev 20:1-3)

The whole purpose of the Kingdom that Jesus taught us to pray for, was just that of leading mankind back to God and ‘undoing the works of the devil’. Only then could God’s will “be done on earth as it is in heaven”. What have we been praying for all this time?

Where was Christ for three days before His resurrection? (the heart of the earth)
Note: Christ was laid in above ground tomb.

Only the wealthy could afford to have above ground tombs....the common people were buried.
If you recall a wealthy man volunteered his own tomb for Jesus burial. It was required for only three days.

Matthew 12:40 NIV
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish,
so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Yes....as Jonah was confined in the belly of the fish until God returned him to land, Jesus was confined to his tomb for the full three days. Only after that stated period of confinement was Jesus raised to life...not in a body of flesh, but in a spirit body in order to return to heaven....a place where flesh and blood cannot go.

He “appeared” to his disciples during the 40 days that he stayed to encourage them for the work ahead, but he did not stay with them as he had the previous three and a half years.

 

[walter]

If we agree with a few scripture, shouldn't we also agree with the other scriptures collectively and draw a understanding based on all the scriptures we can find on the topic?

Google's AI Overview

Yes, in the field of biblical interpretation, the approach you describe is widely considered the most sound and responsible method. This principle, known as "letting Scripture interpret Scripture," is a foundational rule of hermeneutics, the study of how to interpret texts.

Building an understanding on a single verse or a small selection of verses is prone to error. Instead, drawing from all available scriptures on a topic prevents misinterpretation and provides a more complete, balanced understanding. This comprehensive approach is necessary for several key reasons:

• Context is key: No verse exists in a vacuum. It was written within a specific book, to a specific audience, and within a specific historical and cultural context. Considering the literary context (the verses and paragraphs surrounding a passage) and the book's overall themes prevents taking a text out of its original intended meaning.
• Preventing "cherry-picking": Focusing only on preferred verses while ignoring others is often called "cherry-picking" or "cafeteria Christianity". This practice allows individuals to use scripture to justify pre-existing beliefs rather than allowing the scripture to shape their beliefs.
• Clarifying difficult passages: Not all passages of scripture are equally clear. Some may be difficult to understand on their own. However, a responsible interpreter assumes that clear passages shed light on those that are more obscure. By comparing difficult passages with clearer ones on the same topic, one can resolve apparent contradictions and gain a better understanding of the intended meaning.
• Constructing a coherent theology: A topic may be addressed by many different authors across different books of the Bible. The process of gathering all the relevant verses and themes to build a complete picture of a topic is known as systematic theology. This approach helps ensure that a conclusion is consistent with the entire body of scripture, not just a small part.
• Respecting authorial intent: The primary goal of interpretation is to find the original author's intended meaning, not to decide what the text "means to me". By examining all that an author or the collective biblical witness has said on a subject, you are better equipped to discover that original intent.

In summary, treating scripture as a unified whole where individual parts inform and clarify others is the most responsible way to interpret it. This practice requires discipline and humility to prevent personal biases from clouding the process.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Yes, in the field of biblical interpretation, the approach you describe is widely considered the most sound and responsible method. This principle, known as "letting Scripture interpret Scripture," is a foundational rule of hermeneutics, the study of how to interpret texts.

Building an understanding on a single verse or a small selection of verses is prone to error. Instead, drawing from all available scriptures on a topic prevents misinterpretation and provides a more complete, balanced understanding. This comprehensive approach is necessary for several key reasons:

Who knew that AI could be so smart? This is exactly what we know to be true.....Scripture interprets Scripture.....

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes....as Jonah was confined in the belly of the fish until God returned him to land, Jesus was confined to his tomb for the full three days. Only after that stated period of confinement was Jesus raised to life...not in a body of flesh, but in a spirit body in order to return to heaven....a place where flesh and blood cannot go.

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish,
so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Note: Christ was laid in an above ground tomb. Where is the heart of the earth?

Answer: the realm of the dead

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Ephesians 4:8-10 This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.” 9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

1 Peter 4:6 NRSV
For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that, though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

[

 

[Aunty Jane]

OK...let’s examine the Scriptures you quoted......

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish,
so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Note: Christ was laid in an above ground tomb. Where is the heart of the earth?

Answer: the realm of the dead

According to Jewish belief this was “the grave”. The place where all the dead “sleep” in an unconscious state. Above ground or in the ground....a tomb or a grave.... the dead were all still in one place.....a place well known to Jesus’ Jewish audience. It is from their graves that Jesus resurrects them, just as he did Lazarus.

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Read that carefully.....Once resurrected as a spirit, Jesus went to the imprisoned spirits who were disobedient in the days of Noah. These were the disobedient angels who materialised in Noah’s day and produce a hybrid race of freakish humans who wreaked havoc on earth because of their violence and licentious behaviour. Their prison was called Tartarus...a condition of restraint where they were prevented from materialising again and where they were kept in ignorance of God purpose. There were times when the demons pleaded with Jesus not to send them into the abyss. They knew their ultimate fate, but it is apparent that they had no idea of when they would suffer the final imprisonment that Jesus referred to in Rev 20:1-3. When John received his Revelation, it was at the end of the first century, so well after Christ’s resurrection and his visit to them in Tartarus.

Ephesians 4:8-10 This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.” 9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

Since Christ originally came from heaven as he himself stated, then that was his only descent.....his ascension was back to where he came from as a spirit. A return to his Father’s side as it had been prophesied in Psalm 110:1-2.
Jesus told Mary Magdalene.... “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” (John 20:17)
Those who are Jesus’ “brothers” are also God’s sons. They all had the same “God” and “Father”.

1 Peter 4:6 NRSV
For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that, though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does.

These “dead” ones were the humans who were spiritually dead before Christ came. Because the physically dead are in an unconscious state, there is no point in trying to preach to them.....their turn will come at the resurrection. (Acts 24:15)
If those who come to Christ are chosen for a place in the heavenly kingdom, (Heb 3:1) they will be “born again” as spirit beings, able to exist in the presence of God in heaven as the other “sons of God” do. These will be resurrected “first”. (Rev 20:6)

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Yes...as Christ’s sacrifice saves both living and the dead.....his resurrection is a guarantee that all the dead will live again when he calls them from their graves.(John 5:28-29)....some to life and others to a period of judgment. Those alive when he returns will survive the great tribulation and the war of Armageddon.
The only ones missing in that picture are the incorrigibly wicked whose death is not reversible. Condemned to “gehenna” they will never see life again. (Matt 23:33)

That is how I read the scriptures....it is one cohesive story from Genesis to Revelation...there is no Old Testament and New Testament....it is all one testament to the truth.

 

[Jack]

Hell will be filled with BILLIONS of humans who don't believe in Hell. Payday is dead ahead.

PITY those who convince them there is no eternal Hell!

 

[PS95]

There is more than one view on many things....we are the ones who decide which view we will adopt.
By the use of our free will, we decide our own destiny.

Yep.

As I have said many times before...I am not the judge of anyone....just a messenger.
No one is under obligation to agree with me, but each of us is choosing a position whereby Jesus can separate “sheep from goats”. Which one are we?

Sure Jw's judge all of the time... they judged Adam never forgiven- Abraham - earthly crowd although bible says heaven..
Only your elite are born again.. Christians are all anti-christs... I will just stop there..

Those whom Jesus rejects at the judgment are shocked because they are so sure that their “Christianity” is based on Scriptural truth....and yet Jesus says to them “I never knew you”.....get away from me you workers of lawlessness”.........
”Never” means “not ever”....so not from the beginning of the apostasy that he foretold, has Christ set foot in man made doctrinally enslaved, hopelessly divided, Christendom.

Read your pet verse in context for once. Jesus was speaking about FALSE PROPHETS. They prophesied falsely in his name- proving they did not know Him. Have the Jws done that? Do they still do that? 1914 return- yes.

Where does it say that? It says that the dead are dead. Death is the opposite of life. It’s a simple concept.
Death is likened to a sleep because that is how death appears to us. There is no mention of an immortal soul that departs from the body at death to go anywhere....that idea came from the pagan Greeks, not from the Bible.

Death is likened to sleep due to position. The Spirit goes back to God. Your Jw website says that Jesus soul went to heaven and Michael's life force did too. So which is it and what's that about ?

Solomon uses this expression a few times in Ecclesiastes to indicate life in this world. (Eccl 1:2-9)
He makes the statement that there is “nothing new under the sun”, meaning things done in the repetitions of life as we know it....day to day....sunrise to sunrise.
Because the Jews did not have belief in an immortal soul, death was the unconscious condition that takes place when we stop breathing. (Ecco 9:5, 10) Death is reversed by resurrection. Where was Lazarus before Jesus raised him? (John 11:11-14) “Sleeping”.

Many Jews actually did. Yes lazarus was sleeping. So?

Souls are not separate from the body....they cannot exist without a body, which is why they need to be “born again” in a new body. According to Paul there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. Those of the elect are resurrected and given a spiritual body, but not until Christ’s return.

Well how then did Jesus' soul go to heaven if His body was dissolved into gases? Those are not my words... They are your religion's.

1 Cor 15:40-45....
“And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort. 41  The glory of the sun is one sort, and the glory of the moon is another, and the glory of the stars is another; in fact, one star differs from another star in glory.

42  So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption. 43  It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power. 44  It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45  So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.”

Resurrection is a restoration of life....not a continuation of it

Resurrection is not a re-creation- it is what it says- a resurrection of THE BODY.

 

[Jack]

Satan LOVES it when his messengers convince people there is no eternal Hell Fire!!!

 

[Lambano]

If our greatest desire is to be safe at home, others like to play off the fear of being out at home.

Fear gives someone a measure of control over you.

 

[ProDeo]

So to most people, death is not death at all.....it’s just the gateway to another kind of life? Where does the Bible say that? Can we explore what the Bible teaches...?

What was Adam told would happen to him at death?
Gen 3:19...
“In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

Adam would go back to where he came from....back to a state of non-existence....so, why do humans fight that notion? Because they still react like Eve, believing the lie that “you surely will not die”.....as beings programmed to live forever, it is inconceivable to imagine ourselves simply going back to the dust, which is what takes place for everyone. Death is as foreign to us now, as it ever was. It’s the reason why we fight to live. If we go to somewhere better, why do we grieve?

As Solomon wrote....
“For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. . . . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, [sheol] where you are going.”

This is what Jews were taught. So I can see how plainly satan has used our natural desire to go on living, to perpetuate his first lie....it is still promoted to this day....by Christians or non-Christians alike....each with their own embellishments....but it is not a Bible teaching.

In all false religions around the world, this one belief stands as universal....”you surely will not die”....that belief was not held by God’s people in the same way as the pagans believed it....they were taught that death is just a temporary state of ‘suspended animation’....an unconscious “sleep” from which they would awaken in “the resurrection”. There was no immortal soul that exited the body at death, to go somewhere else, but they were taught to look forward to a restoration of body and soul (the whole person) under the rule of Messiah’s Kingdom.

One Bible example explains it clearly....the resurrection of Jesus’ friend Lazarus.

John 11:11-14....
“After he said these things, he added: “Lazʹa·rus our friend has fallen asleep, but I am traveling there to awaken him.” 12  The disciples then said to him: “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get well.” 13  Jesus, however, had spoken about his death. But they imagined he was speaking about taking rest in sleep. 14  Then Jesus said to them plainly: “Lazʹa·rus has died”.

Where was Lazarus, who had been dead for four days? Jesus said he was “asleep” and that he was going to wake him up.
In Jesus’ day, there had been no miracles since the days of the prophets hundreds of years before, so a resurrection or any other miracle, was not a common event and it elicited awe and wonder. Jesus was the first to perform such miracles in his day.

Lazarus’ sister stated her belief in “the resurrection” as the account relates...
“20  When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went to meet him; but Mary kept sitting at home. 21  Martha then said to Jesus: “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22  Yet even now I know that whatever you ask God for, God will give you.” 23  Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” 24  Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” 25  Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; 26  and everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?”

Martha had no notion of her brother’s spirit existing in the invisible realm, because she knew about the resurrection to come “on the last day”....so when was this “last day”? Obviously she was pointing forward to the future when “all those in their tombs would hear his [Jesus] voice and come out”. (John 5:28-29) This was under the kingdom’s rule when Jesus would call all the dead from their graves......how could he do that unless they were all still in those graves? They expected to be called back to this life on earth.

Did Lazarus mention being anywhere else when he waddled out, still in his grave wrappings?
And if he was in a better place, why would Jesus bring him back to this life, only to die again in the future?

Jewish expectation of that time, is hardly ever taken into account when we examine the subject of death, and eventually they too succumbed to the notion of an immortal soul, but it was never part of their Scripture.

When Jesus died, he remained in his tomb for three days...he did not go anywhere, but was as he stated....”in the heart of the earth, as Jonah was in the belly of the fish”.....it was a confinement. So death is a confinement for us too, until it is time for God to bring back all the victims of Adam’s sin.

Even Christ’s elect were to sleep in death until his return.
1 Thess 4:13-17 shows us that death is not permanent except for those whom God consigns to “Gehenna” (the goats).....a place of no return....a death from which there is no resurrection.

“Gehenna” and “hades” are often translated as “hell” but they are two entirely different destinations.
Those in “hades” are released from death...those in “Gehenna” are not. (Rev 20:13-14; Matt 25:31-33, 41, 46)

So, only two groups of living things will end up in that place of no return....the “goats” (humans on earth who follow the devil’s lead) and those whom satan managed to mislead in God’s family of ‘sons’ in heaven.
They will forfeit their lives forever. No need to torture anyone.

Life or death is all God’s children were ever taught about....and either obedience, or disobedience, will dictate where each will spend eternity.

Something changed @Aunty Jane, what happened the moment when Jesus said "It is Finished" and died ?

1. Luke 23:43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” (just hours before He died).

2. Matt 27:50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit.
Matt 27:51 And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split.
Matt 27:52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised,
Matt 27:53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

Since Jesus died and resurrected we live in a new reality.