Survey - Is Repentance important to salvation?
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Galatians 5:1-9 KJV
1) Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2) Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3) For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4) Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5) For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6) For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
7) Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
8) This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
9) A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
If someone believes that that are saved by the Spirit, but that they must complete that salvation by their works, they are fallen from grace. Come back to grace through faith.
Much love!
1) Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2) Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3) For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4) Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5) For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6) For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
7) Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
8) This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
9) A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
If someone believes that that are saved by the Spirit, but that they must complete that salvation by their works, they are fallen from grace. Come back to grace through faith.
Much love!
Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
We stand in grace.
Much love!
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
We stand in grace.
Much love!
PS95
Well-Known Member
OH PLEASE- YOU ARE NOT LISTENING. LOL Who is speaking about cirumcism?
I've told you I'm done since you refuse to accept and believe what Paul stated. There is no point in continuing.
A saint who chooses to live in sins until he dies will not inherit the kingdom. I agree with Paul- you don't.
It's not rocket science.
A person who makes that choice does not love the Lord- love obeys- Jesus bought us.
Those who don't love Him don't obey Him- He never knew them.
They are not saved not matter how they live! That is a lie.
Marks that's right- we are NOT to live that way.
My point that you evade is you (osas 2.0) say, a person who goes off and lives in those sins til death is STILL SAVED.
That is not what Paul said. That is behavior of an unbeliever.
Again-- I say if you said "he never was saved" I could agree.. but I will not agree to what you do say!
Show how these passages aren't saying what I claim. Not by just trying to contradict them from another passage, dig into the passage itself, and see that it says what I'm saying.
All Scriptures harmonize, and if someone thinks there is a contradiction, they do not understand it. If someone thinks there are "hidden caveats, they don't understand it.
We use the clear statements to understand the less than clear statement. The verse that may seem to imply that a person can be regenerated and then become unregenerated has to be understood in light of those that clearly show this does not happen.
Consider what it would mean for the regenerate to become again unregenerated. Your flesh was crucified with Christ. Will God raise up your flesh again, and crucify your spirit for you to return to your flesh? I've never seen that passage!
Much love!
All Scriptures harmonize, and if someone thinks there is a contradiction, they do not understand it. If someone thinks there are "hidden caveats, they don't understand it.
We use the clear statements to understand the less than clear statement. The verse that may seem to imply that a person can be regenerated and then become unregenerated has to be understood in light of those that clearly show this does not happen.
Consider what it would mean for the regenerate to become again unregenerated. Your flesh was crucified with Christ. Will God raise up your flesh again, and crucify your spirit for you to return to your flesh? I've never seen that passage!
Much love!
Hebrews 12:4-11 KJV
4) Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5) And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
God chastens us as needed and His chastening works. Do you believe this?
I"ve answered this repeatedly while you claim I evade it. There is clearly a disconnect.
Much love!
It's up to you whether you respond to me or not. I'm writing general posts for the reader of the thread. And I'm mostly posting what Paul wrote, because I do in fact accept and believe what Paul wrote, regardless of your false and ignorant accusations. And yes, you are being accusatory.
Much love!
Is there such a thing?
If you aren't changed, what makes you think you are born again? ( that's a general "you" )
Much love!
PS95
Well-Known Member
I'm not accusatory. I am stating what OSAS 2.0 says-- and you adhere to that, correct?
That a person who is is believed to be saved-- is saved no matter their actions even up til death- even if he lives in sins, such as Paul mentioned--he is still saved.. ?
Own it Marks.?. or not. Which? Behold owns it.
That's my only point with you guys.
I didn't ask for this discussion- you don't let up. You keep posting when I tell you I am done. Behold does the same exact thing. It's the strangest thing.
So there it is. Own it or not? Up to you. I told you I disagree with you multiple times.
I'm sorry if you feel I fall from grace. I don't see it that way at all.
Your idea of grace is to spit in the face of it and that is acceptable to the Lord.
No.
OSAS 2.0???
What does this mean to you? I have no idea what you are ascribing to me. Maybe this has to do with the disconnect I've been seeing.
My view is simple. We are dead in sin and then become alive in Christ. After this our minds are being renewed, which means that we are being trained to stop thinking/feeling/acting in the old way that is ingrained in us, and to now live the new way.
"I will never leave you nor forsake you" is true for all the children of God. Rock solid promise!
If we get too far off into the weeds God will correct us, and restore us. Another rock solid promise.
Any choice to sin comes from the old man, the flesh. We've been delivered from our flesh. Yet another promise.
Romans 7:17-25 KJV
17) Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18) For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21) I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Twice here Paul states "it is no more I that do it", meaning, it was before, and now it's not. Paul is no longer the sinner. Sin is of the flesh, the flesh is condemned already. Please don't reply that this means I'm soft on sin! I'm sharing what the Bible says.
There are many warnings in Scripture that we not delude ourselves thinking we are right with God when we are not. The one who continues their life without reformation shows they are not changed. Those who leave the church were never changed.
Those who are made alive in Christ will all appear with Him when He appears. These are all things that are clearly stated in the Bible.
This is not saying the one who is "believed to be saved" will appear with Him, but those who are raised with Him, having died with Him, that is, the regenerate, this are the ones. Claims and beliefs don't determime our standing with God, but if we are in fact baptized into Christ, regenerate, reborn. These are the ones.
Much love!
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Done. This is very unhealthy. That has no bearing or relation to my idea of grace. Only that you are now choosing to lash out, and I don't want to be a part of that.
It may be best if you put me on Ignore so that you do not feel compelled to reply.
Much love!
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Yes., absolutely.
Our actions subsequent to our Salvaiton...(good or bad) .....have no bearing on being born again, and being born again is the only proof of Salvation.
Sins are eternally forgiven, and imputed righteousness has become our eternal standing before God.
PS95
Well-Known Member
Yes, osas 2.0 as I have stated. .I know that's how you see it, Behold- thanks for being open about what you do believe.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Salvation is not something we do, nor is it something we complete.
Salvation is Jesus on The Cross, offering Himself as The eternal Sacririce, so that by His eternal Sacrifice God can and will accept us and keep us.
Salvation is not something we DO...........its something that is Completed by Jesus, on The Cross , 2000 yrs ago, that we RECEIVE.
Its "the GIFT of Salvation", and that is not something we can do.
Now....What CAN we do, after we have received God's Eternal Salvation?
We can DO our discipleship..........but that is not our Salvation..........that is our daily presenting ourselves to God, as our SERVICE.
If we do that well, or if we dont...........we are still SAVED and Kept Saved by Jesus's Sacrifice.
A.) Jesus who saved us, keeps us saved, always.
PS95
Well-Known Member
I agree with this until you think that it also means..................osas 2.0 which you already said you do , so why further the discussion with me on this?
A person who leaves the faith and goes to live the remainder for their days in blatant willful sins is NOT SAVED> end of discussion for me.
Leave it alone because I am not going to continue to give you scriptures so you can ignore them. WE have been there Behold.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Thank you.
I’m very content with and thankful for my relationship with and in Christ the Lord, my Refuge..
We were warned there would always be Tribulations IN THIS World … and we see it daily per the brutal and cowardly acts of man against man and the in your face demand for demure tolerance, of wayward anti-godly behavior.
I can not imagine the heart break and anger God continually experiences.
Glory to God,
Taken
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
yet what many dont KNOW , and beleive me they DO NOT KNOW
is what paul wrote to the corinthian church is very true .
Any guesses on what i am about to write .
a hint
most have no idea their leaders are minstirs of satan , NOT GOD .
and marvel not mark cause that does and can happen .
MANY now sit under agents of satan cloaked n wool . And i mean satan .
Pretty darn scary for them mark . SO i have the same idea i been saying all along and for years .
GET A BIBLE INTO THE HAND of every man , woman and child
AND let them READ IT DAILY and for themselves . LET NO MAN say one cannot learn the truth
lest ye sit under our teacher or our greek . MEN been fleecing this entire realm mark .
Behold
Well-Known Member
I dont teach "OSAS" or "OSAS v2, or v43.
OSAS was created by gnostic Jews, in Paul's day, to try to confuse a believer into thinking that God's Grace, is license to sin.
OSAS is designed to subert your faith so that you can't believe that Jesus keeps you saved, so you try to do it for yourself by works and effort, which is impossible.
I teach, as Paul taught, that Jesus is our Eternal Salvation, and God is faithful to complete it.
I teach that every Christian has eternal life, because Jesus said that if you believe in Him, He gives you "Eternal Life".
I understand that ETERNAL Life, is not temporary.
Do you?
The NT teaches that the born Christian is a "new Creation"...... and this means a spiritual birth has been completed by God's Holy Spirit in them..., which has forever placed the believer, as "in Christ" "one with God". = Eternal Spiritual Union.
Now, for this to happen, then all sin has to be dealt with or the Christian could not be "one with God".
God the Holy Spirit does not join Himself to current sin or future sin..........so, the sinner, has to become "made righteous" forever... by the Imputed rightesouness of Christ....and THEN God can give them the new birth which is to become One with God, spiritually.
And THIS is Eternal Life.
So, God has created His Salvation, as THE BLood Atonement that keeps the Christian, "washed in the blood of Jesus".
As otherwise, it would not have been "eternal life".
Or as John explains it...... "the blood of Jesus, cleanses us from all sin".
= This never ends., and that is why we remain "in Christ" and "One with God".........(born again).
'""""""""""""but behold, what if i do something terrible""""""""""""""..
Well, didnt God know you would ?????? every single time?
Didn't God know all about every carnal thought, ever carnal deed, you have committed since you became a Believer in Yeshua and were saved ?
Listen..., the day God saved you, He knew all about everything you were going to do wrong in the future, and He saved you anyway, because His Salvation = """"cleanses us from all sin"..........always.
Now, we are not to abuse this Grace of God.
We are not to abuse God's Grace.
See, this is why Paul teaches.....>>"""use not your LIBERTY, (in Christ) for an occasion to the Flesh""".
This means......>>now that you understand that you are made free from sin, and keep washed in the blood of Jesus.....you are not to abuse this knowledge to go and live in carnality.
Can you?
Yes you can.......and the carnal christian will do it, "washed in the blood of Jesus"......However, Paul teaches that if you do that, then Hebrews 12:6, is going to crush you and crush you, to make you stop. And also...this spiritual law....the law of "sowing and reaping" is going to harm and harm. your life, and its going to HURT.
And if you wont stop your carnal pursuit after God has chastened you and chasened you, then Paul teaches that you will DIE.
That is what happens to a person who abuses the Grace of God by choosing to enjoy worldliness, and wont stop.
Most of the time, a person who is living in sin, and says they are a Christian is a professor, but not a possessor.
They talk the talk, but they dont have Jesus in them........They are not born again.
John said.....>"they left us becasue they were not OF US">.
Most Christian have a time when they are more concerned with making more money, and always shopping for something new, and sitting in front of their Big Screen 5+ hrs a day while their Bible is long forgotten on the shelf.., and.......many things like this that prove the focus of their life and mind and heart, is not on Jesus............Yet they are really a Christian.
They have "dead faith".....but not dead salvation.
Always remember that James corrected dead faith Christians....>He didnt get rid of them.
He corrected them.
But that is different then a fake believer......who can quote verses and argue some religious point about commandment keepping or Hell not being real , and is water baptized, yet religious but lost.
PS95
Well-Known Member
I don't understand why you can't see what I'm saying. It's really very simple. Paul taught it also. YOUR OSAS teaches to an extreme that is not biblical! Please see the distinction that I make that you do not.------
1)A person who is a true believer has assurance- absolutely- and their lives will reflect that because they walk in the spirit and not the flesh.
2)Compare that with a person who said they had faith- claimed to be saved- and seemed to reflect that faith for a while, but chose to live a life of sinning and continued to walk in their flesh in all manner of sins until they died.
You insist person #2 is still saved. DO YOU NOT? You have to me in past posts..
I do not.
And I pointed you to scriptures showing that our lives WILL reflect Christ's teachings or we do not belong to Him.
Yet, you stick to your opinion, and yes, I reject that false teaching. That is my difference with you.
You gives simply wont admit that what I am saying is true- because you think it is works saving a person. That's skewed thinking-
Christ in someone CHANGES people, and they do not go live in sins until they die, spitting in the face of grace. THAT is an unbeliever. I don't care how many times you think he may have professed Christ- He did not possess Christ.--why? Because his deeds proved it.
Our works reveal who we are. -
Either Christ is in you or He is not.
If you can't admit to this- I have nothing further to say. You guys seem to want to think you have more faith that I do or some nonsense-
I will show you my faith BY my works.- That is pure TRUTH. -- Paul AGREED with James and so do I.
You do not- if you continue in this no matter what your behavior is even until death- you are saved.
If I wasn''t clear enough that time- I don't know how else to show you since scriptures is twisted or ignored... what else is there to say? I pray it clicks one day.
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