Covenant theology and its view of eschatology

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Douggg

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Is Covenant theology valid or invalid ? Especially concerning its perspective of eschatology (the study of the end times) ?

I personally don't hold the Covenant theology position. Nor Dispensationalism. Nor Reformed theology.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Is Covenant theology valid or invalid ? Especially concerning its perspective of eschatology (the study of the end times) ?

I personally don't hold the Covenant theology position. Nor Dispensationalism. Nor Reformed theology.
Since it seems like many people have their own definitions for terms like these, tell me how you define "covenant theology". As I understand it, I certainly believe it's valid, but I don't know if my understanding of it matches yours. So, it's pointless to comment much further until I know how you define it.

My understanding of covenant theology relates to how the better new covenant that was established by the shed blood of Christ and His sacrifice, superseded or replaced the old covenant law of Moses and its animal sacrifices. Christ's blood was able to accomplish what the blood of animals could not, which was eternal redemption and the permanent covering and atonement for our sins.

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Hebrews 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
 
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Douggg

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Since it seems like many people have their own definitions for terms like these, tell me how you define "covenant theology". As I understand it, I certainly believe it's valid, but I don't know if my understanding of it matches yours. So, it's pointless to comment much further until I know how you define it.
Do a Google search on Covenant Theology. It is so confusing to me that I can't define it.
 

Davy

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It's just an amalgamation hodge-podge group of doctrines placed under the topic of God's Bible covenants. Hard to understand seminary doctrines at work to deceive the gullible with.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Do a Google search on Covenant Theology. It is so confusing to me that I can't define it.
Why are you asking about it then if you don't even have a definition for it? What are your thoughts on what I said about how I understand it?
 

Douggg

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Why are you asking about it then if you don't even have a definition for it? What are your thoughts on what I said about how I understand it?
I don't think your understanding of Covenant Theology is correct. imo.

Here is diagram chart I found on the internet of Covenant Theology. It appears to be a series of covenants regarding relationship between God and humans. With a Covenant of Grace arching over the Old Testament (Covenant) and the New Testament (Covenant).

The diagram shows at the beginning of creation of man there was a so-called Covenant of Works (of life) before the fall into sin. I assume that means man was told that he could eat from any tree in the garden of Eden, except for the tree of good and evil. The fruit apparently had some sort of poison in it that would alter man's behavior once digested into his system. (my guess). I wonder if Satan planted that tree there ?

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Spiritual Israelite

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I don't think your understanding of Covenant Theology is correct. imo.

Here is diagram chart I found on the internet of Covenant Theology. It appears to be a series of covenants regarding relationship between God and humans. With a Covenant of Grace arching over the Old Testament (Covenant) and the New Testament (Covenant).

The diagram shows at the beginning of creation of man there was a so-called Covenant of Works (of life) before the fall into sin. I assume that means man was told that he could eat from any tree in the garden of Eden, except for the tree of good and evil. The fruit apparently had some sort of poison in it that would alter man's behavior once digested into his system. (my guess). I wonder if Satan planted that tree there ?

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You said covenant theology "is so confusing to me that I can't define it." and here you are defining it. Whatever. This thread is pointless.
 

Douggg

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You said covenant theology "is so confusing to me that I can't define it." and here you are defining it. Whatever. This thread is pointless.
I wasn't defining it. I was sharing what I learned about it since starting the thread.
 

TribulationSigns

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I wasn't defining it. I was sharing what I learned about it since starting the thread.

Glad you took my advice to do your homework on the Internet. I was wondering if you only search for charts instead of actually reading articles about the Covenant theology, hummm? Clearly, you only wanted to discuss the chart you posted above. Nothing new with you.
 

rwb

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I don't think your understanding of Covenant Theology is correct. imo.

How would you know what is or is not correct since you admit you have NOT studied, nor do you understand Covenant Theology? You argue against doctrine that has been foundational from the beginning of man. Do you even know what the unconditional Covenant of God to mankind according to grace through faith is? Do you believe there is only ONE Covenant of Grace, or do you think there are two? Don't be confused by conditional Covenants or promises that were temporary because they were conditioned upon man's obedience. Since these conditional Covenants are not eternal, and dependent upon man's faithfulness to God, they must not be confused with the ONE unconditional Covenant of Grace ordained in heaven through God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit from before the foundation of the earth. This is the heart of Covenant Theology! For it understands the ONE everlasting Covenant whereby man might be eternally saved is not dependent upon man but is wholly dependent upon the work of God on earth through His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ! The continuity of this ONE Covenant of Grace has always included the whole human race and is not divided according to ethnic origins. IOW there is NOT one Covenant of Grace for Israel and another for the Church!
 

Scott Downey

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2 Samuel 23
1 Now these are the last words of David.

Thus says David the son of Jesse;
Thus says the man raised up on high,
The anointed of the God of Jacob,
And the sweet psalmist of Israel:
2 “The Spirit of the Lord spoke by me,
And His word was on my tongue.
3 The God of Israel said,
The Rock of Israel spoke to me:
‘He who rules over men must be just,
Ruling in the fear of God.
4 And he shall be like the light of the morning when the sun rises,
A morning without clouds,
Like the tender grass springing out of the earth,
By clear shining after rain.’

5 “Although my house is not so with God,
Yet He has made with me an everlasting covenant,
Ordered in all things and secure.
For this is all my salvation and all my desire;

Will He not make it increase?

6 But the sons of rebellion shall all be as thorns thrust away,
Because they cannot be taken with hands.
7 But the man who touches them
Must be [a]armed with iron and the shaft of a spear,
And they shall be utterly burned with fire in their place.”



Here is Covenant salvation through all time and it is according to election, by the promise of God, not dispensation.

Genesis 17:21
But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time next year.”
Galatians 4:28
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.


Israel’s Rejection of Christ​

1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my [a]countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

Israel’s Rejection and God’s Purpose​

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”

10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

Israel’s Rejection and God’s Justice​

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As He says also in Hosea:

“I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”
26 “And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”
27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:

“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.
28 For [b]He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness,
Because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth.”
29 And as Isaiah said before:

“Unless the Lord of [c]Sabaoth had left us a seed,
We would have become like Sodom,
And we would have been made like Gomorrah.”

Present Condition of Israel​

30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law [d]of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, [e]by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:

“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
 
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KUWN

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Is Covenant theology valid or invalid ? Especially concerning its perspective of eschatology (the study of the end times) ?

I personally don't hold the Covenant theology position. Nor Dispensationalism. Nor Reformed theology.
What is it about the Dispensationalism that you don't agree with?
 

Scott Downey

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Two Covenants​

21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic.

For these are [g]the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written:

“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

By that covenant God has made us born according to the Spirit, by His promise, according to the election, meaning His purpose and will for us, and we are the ones who will obtain the inheritance, which is the salvation, everlasting life with God.
 
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Davy

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Glad you took my advice to do your homework on the Internet. I was wondering if you only search for charts instead of actually reading articles about the Covenant theology, hummm? Clearly, you only wanted to discuss the chart you posted above. Nothing new with you.

Why would anyone think reading articles that mention the label 'Covenant theology' should be trusted? That's just going back to the seminary working of the doctrines of men.

The Biblical understanding about the idea of 'covenants' involves what GOD Himself has declared as His Covenants. Some early ones were His covenant with the earth and the Edenic covenant giving man dominion over the earth (Genesis 1:28-30). Therefore, just how long would it really take to go over all the different covenants that God has made per His Word? It's a lot easier to just 'study' all of His Word instead of trying to 'categorize' all of them, for there are many. Like I said, men's seminary approach on it is just an amalgamation of men's doctrines about it.