What happened to the 10 toes in Daniel 2?

[Exegesis]

What is the *real* symbolism of horns? Is it just 'power' or is there more to them?

Revelation 5:6 - "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth."

Horns are symbolic of spirits.

Get it? Got it? Good.

 

[Wish-it]

In Daniel 2, God identified the 4 metal kingdoms in His plan of salvation and restoration for His people and mankind. The four kingdoms are quite easily identified (IMO), as:

1) Gold - Babylon,

2) Silver - Medes- Persia,

3) Bronze - Greece,

4) Iron - Rome

Now, we easily can see that God's 4 kingdoms are all constructer of a different metal type.

But within the 4th iron kingdom of Rome, He places a non-metallic element within the feet of this kingdom - clay. And certainly, we all know that clay and any metal does not combine.

In the beginning of chapter 7, God gives us a new set of symbols for these same 4 kingdoms, but now we notice there has been some significant changes, apart from the different symbol, to the iron kingdom. Now, we see an unidentifiable 4th beast kingdom with 10 horns coming out of it. No more mention of the clay and no more mention of the 10 toes.

So what happend to the 10 toes?

The fourth beast isn't Rome.

In Daniel 2, God identified the 4 metal kingdoms in His plan of salvation and restoration for His people and mankind. The four kingdoms are quite easily identified (IMO), as:

1) Gold - Babylon,

2) Silver - Medes- Persia,

3) Bronze - Greece,

4) Iron - Rome

Now, we easily can see that God's 4 kingdoms are all constructer of a different metal type.

But within the 4th iron kingdom of Rome, He places a non-metallic element within the feet of this kingdom - clay. And certainly, we all know that clay and any metal does not combine.

In the beginning of chapter 7, God gives us a new set of symbols for these same 4 kingdoms, but now we notice there has been some significant changes, apart from the different symbol, to the iron kingdom. Now, we see an unidentifiable 4th beast kingdom with 10 horns coming out of it. No more mention of the clay and no more mention of the 10 toes.

So what happend to the 10 toes?

Nothing to do with pagan Rome, in my opinion, the final battles of Ezek 38,39, Zech 12 to 14, Psalm 83, Rev 16 confirm that its the countries surrounding Israel that will be the opposing participants. Those nations all Islamic, who just happen to be the descendants of Ishmael and Esau. Its time to reconsider who the fourth kingdom is. Dan 7 tell us, Dan 8 tells us when, Dan 7, 8 and 11 tells us the chronological order.
The ten toes probably refers to the 10 nations of Psalm 83. Three nations are subdued in Dan 7.24, those nations also mentioned in Dan 11.41. They are part of the original Psalm 83 listed nations. Deut 2 explains some history of why.
I'd suggest the clay is Israel ( see Lam 4.2, Jer 18,19, Ezek 4.1-3.) The iron will be the four nations of Dan 8.22 and Dan 11.4 from which the 10 toes arise Dan 7.6,7.
The originals, always from the books of beginnings, Gen 16.11,12, Gen 25.23, Gen 27.39,40

 

[Earburner]

The fourth beast isn't Rome.

Nothing to do with pagan Rome, in my opinion, the final battles of Ezek 38,39, Zech 12 to 14, Psalm 83, Rev 16 confirm that its the countries surrounding Israel that will be the opposing participants. Those nations all Islamic, who just happen to be the descendants of Ishmael and Esau. Its time to reconsider who the fourth kingdom is. Dan 7 tell us, Dan 8 tells us when, Dan 7, 8 and 11 tells us the chronological order.
The ten toes probably refers to the 10 nations of Psalm 83. Three nations are subdued in Dan 7.24, those nations also mentioned in Dan 11.41. They are part of the original Psalm 83 listed nations. Deut 2 explains some history of why.
I'd suggest the clay is Israel ( see Lam 4.2, Jer 18,19, Ezek 4.1-3.) The iron will be the four nations of Dan 8.22 and Dan 11.4 from which the 10 toes arise Dan 7.6,7.
The originals, always from the books of beginnings, Gen 16.11,12, Gen 25.23, Gen 27.39,40

Since the 10 horns/toes were shown to be on the 4th beast of Daniel, in the latter stage of its existence, we should follow through with the historical outline of its existence since the beginning of the manifestation of the 4th beast as the Roman Republic, which was in 509 BC. of which then evolved into the Roman Empire in 27 BC.

Today, the 10H 4th beast has evolved into its present manifestation as being Europe and the Roman Catholic church, working in conjunction with the the Image of the 10H Beast (the UN) and the Two horned beast (the USA).
Ultimately, the last manifestation of the 4th beast will be a Global Economic Empire.
The ten toes/horns shall come out of NATO of Europe.

 

[Wish-it]

Since the 10 horns/toes were shown to be on the 4th beast of Daniel, in the latter stage of its existence, we should follow through with the historical outline of its existence since the beginning of the manifestation of the 4th beast as the Roman Republic, which was in 509 BC. of which then evolved into the Roman Empire in 27 BC.

Today, the 10H 4th beast has evolved into its present manifestation as being Europe and the Roman Catholic church, working in conjunction with the the Image of the 10H Beast (the UN) and the Two horned beast (the USA).
Ultimately, the last manifestation of the 4th beast will be a Global Economic Empire.
The ten toes/horns shall come out of NATO of Europe.

In using scripture we should confirm scripture by seeing what other scripture says to confirm it. Everytime Jesus and the apostles replied to questions, they referred to scriptures in the Old Testament, why? Because that's where our answers come from.
Scripture is inspired by God, history by humans.
We dont need to know the history of the world for 6000 years, we need to read scripture, confirm scripture from scripture, do Jer 33.3, and listen to the Holy Spirits small wee voice.

 

[Wish-it]

In Daniel 2, God identified the 4 metal kingdoms in His plan of salvation and restoration for His people and mankind. The four kingdoms are quite easily identified (IMO), as:

1) Gold - Babylon,

2) Silver - Medes- Persia,

3) Bronze - Greece,

4) Iron - Rome

Now, we easily can see that God's 4 kingdoms are all constructer of a different metal type.

But within the 4th iron kingdom of Rome, He places a non-metallic element within the feet of this kingdom - clay. And certainly, we all know that clay and any metal does not combine.

In the beginning of chapter 7, God gives us a new set of symbols for these same 4 kingdoms, but now we notice there has been some significant changes, apart from the different symbol, to the iron kingdom. Now, we see an unidentifiable 4th beast kingdom with 10 horns coming out of it. No more mention of the clay and no more mention of the 10 toes.

So what happend to the 10 toes?

The 10 toes are mentioned in Psalm 83.
Three are later subdued Dan 7.8, 24. One of the 10 toe nations is Assyria, Psalm 83.8. The king of Assyria becomes the AC in old testament scripture. The three nations subdued and later delivered Dan 11.41 are Edom, Moab and Ammon. They also are part of Psalm 83. The reasons for their deliverance is contained in Deut 2. The readjusted toes are then mentioned in Rev 13.3, now 7 heads.
Rev 17 also mentions them, Rev 17.10,11. V 11 says The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. See Dan 7.24, The ten horns are ten kings, less 3 subdued, plus after them another king will arise making 11 less 3 subdued, equals 8, as per Rev 17.11.

 

[Wish-it]

Since the 10 horns/toes were shown to be on the 4th beast of Daniel, in the latter stage of its existence, we should follow through with the historical outline of its existence since the beginning of the manifestation of the 4th beast as the Roman Republic, which was in 509 BC. of which then evolved into the Roman Empire in 27 BC.

Today, the 10H 4th beast has evolved into its present manifestation as being Europe and the Roman Catholic church, working in conjunction with the the Image of the 10H Beast (the UN) and the Two horned beast (the USA).
Ultimately, the last manifestation of the 4th beast will be a Global Economic Empire.
The ten toes/horns shall come out of NATO of Europe.

Can't find any mention of that in scripture. Read Dan 2 as then and now. Babylon, Mede Persia, Javan, then the 4th beast.
Today, Iraq, Iran, Turkey then the 4th beast. Who will the fourth beast be? A coalition of nations that surrounding Israel for the final battle - mostly likely Islam, not Rome - papal or pagan.
Look for the origins of this in scripture.
Find any mention of the ten toes of Europe in scripture.

 

[Earburner]

In using scripture we should confirm scripture by seeing what other scripture says to confirm it. Everytime Jesus and the apostles replied to questions, they referred to scriptures in the Old Testament, why? Because that's where our answers come from.
Scripture is inspired by God, history by humans.
We dont need to know the history of the world for 6000 years, we need to read scripture, confirm scripture from scripture, do Jer 33.3, and listen to the Holy Spirits small wee voice.

God in His foreknowledge tells us of the Four kingdoms/empires that shall come on the earth. See Dan. ch. 7.
History tells us when, how and who was involved.
Jer. 33:3 would be all of 1 Cor. ch. 2.

 

[Wish-it]

God in His foreknowledge tells us of the Four kingdoms/empires that shall come in the world, see Dan. ch. 7.
History tells us when, how and who was involved.
Jer. 33:3 would be all of 1 Cor. ch. 2.

Three kingdoms are named, not four. The presumption of who the fourth kingdom is the cause of all the confusion. Where does Dan 7 reveal the name of the 4th kingdom? Scripture is our goto for answers, not history. History is written by humans, with their own biases and erroneous versions. Scripture is best.

 

[Wish-it]

In verse 2:40 Daniel records the "4th beast." Do you see anywhere in Daniel that God brought

Dan 2.40 is about kingdoms not beasts. The 5th kingdom is clay. Clay will be in the final battle with the iron. That should reveal the final players.

 

[Davy]

Three kingdoms are named, not four. The presumption of who the fourth kingdom is the cause of all the confusion. Where does Dan 7 reveal the name of the 4th kingdom? Scripture is our goto for answers, not history. History is written by humans, with their own biases and erroneous versions. Scripture is best.

Still, there is a conflict between the 4th beast of Dan.7 and the 5th beast shown in Dan.2:35 & 44. Daniel 2:35 shows the final beast will have FIVE PIECES of the beast statue, not FOUR.

Dan 2:34-35
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
KJV

That "stone" that will smite that above beast on its feet of ten toes of iron mixed with clay is our Lord Jesus Christ, the Chief Cornerstone.

That beast is the FINAL one for the END of this world because that is when Jesus comes to make war with that final beast of Rev.17:12-14. Because it is to be made of FIVE PIECES and not FOUR, and ALL of those pieces are together when Jesus smites it upon its feet, that means ALL FIVE PIECES are manifest with that FINAL beast at the END of this world when it comes tumbling down.

1. gold = Babylon empire
2 silver = Medo-Persia empire
3. brass = Macedonian empire (Alexander the Great)
4. iron = pagan Roman empire
5. feet of iron mixed with clay = final 5th beast for the END of this world still sometime in our near future.

 

[Wish-it]

Still, there is a conflict between the 4th beast of Dan.7 and the 5th beast shown in Dan.2:35 & 44. Daniel 2:35 shows the final beast will have FIVE PIECES of the beast statue, not FOUR.

Dan 2:34-35
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
KJV

That "stone" that will smite that above beast on its feet of ten toes of iron mixed with clay is our Lord Jesus Christ, the Chief Cornerstone.

That beast is the FINAL one for the END of this world because that is when Jesus comes to make war with that final beast of Rev.17:12-14. Because it is to be made of FIVE PIECES and not FOUR, and ALL of those pieces are together when Jesus smites it upon its feet, that means ALL FIVE PIECES are manifest with that FINAL beast at the END of this world when it comes tumbling down.

1. gold = Babylon empire
2 silver = Medo-Persia empire
3. brass = Macedonian empire (Alexander the Great)
4. iron = pagan Roman empire
5. feet of iron mixed with clay = final 5th beast for the END of this world still sometime in our near future.

I think to understand this we need to understand who the clay is. But in the case of your 4th empire, im sorry, but im sure Rome is the wrong answer.
As believers we have to look at all possible options, to ensure we are on the correct path. The fourth empire will be islam, not Rome. Why because only Islamic nations surround Israel and want them gone. From that its possible to understand who clay is, and who is the KoS in Dan 11. The battle is between the decendants of Isaac and Jacob, Ishmael and Esau. Read their blessings Gen 16.11,12, Gen 27.39,40. He told us the end from the beginning, Is 46.10. Thank you for your response

Zech 12 to 14 is fairly comprehensive in answers, as is Ezek 38,39.

 

[Wish-it]

Still, there is a conflict between the 4th beast of Dan.7 and the 5th beast shown in Dan.2:35 & 44. Daniel 2:35 shows the final beast will have FIVE PIECES of the beast statue, not FOUR.

Dan 2:34-35
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
KJV

That "stone" that will smite that above beast on its feet of ten toes of iron mixed with clay is our Lord Jesus Christ, the Chief Cornerstone.

That beast is the FINAL one for the END of this world because that is when Jesus comes to make war with that final beast of Rev.17:12-14. Because it is to be made of FIVE PIECES and not FOUR, and ALL of those pieces are together when Jesus smites it upon its feet, that means ALL FIVE PIECES are manifest with that FINAL beast at the END of this world when it comes tumbling down.

1. gold = Babylon empire
2 silver = Medo-Persia empire
3. brass = Macedonian empire (Alexander the Great)
4. iron = pagan Roman empire
5. feet of iron mixed with clay = final 5th beast for the END of this world still sometime in our near future.

Also the final battle would be the time of Jacob, and the time when the Lord saves the remainder of Israel as covered in Zech 13.1, with his cleansing of sin.
The kingdom that returns with Jesus in Dan 2.44 is the body of imperishable saints, the iron sceptre who return to earth to destroy the iron kingdom and rescue Israel from its judgment.
Rev 19.14,15, Rev 2.26-29, Rev 5.10, Rev 20.6. Then we will reign with him for 1000 years.

 

[Davy]

I think to understand this we need to understand who the clay is. But in the case of your 4th empire, im sorry, but im sure Rome is the wrong answer.
As believers we have to look at all possible options, to ensure we are on the correct path. The fourth empire will be islam, not Rome. Why because only Islamic nations surround Israel and want them gone. From that its possible to understand who clay is, and who is the KoS in Dan 11. The battle is between the decendants of Isaac and Jacob, Ishmael and Esau. Read their blessings Gen 16.11,12, Gen 27.39,40. He told us the end from the beginning, Is 46.10. Thank you for your response

Zech 12 to 14 is fairly comprehensive in answers, as is Ezek 38,39.

One can... steer off the Biblical and historical path and do all kinds of speculations, but the fact that Rome represented the 4th beast kingdom of that Daniel 2 beast statue description, the "legs of iron", is not speculation. One of the main reasons is because in the Dan.2 beast statue example, each empire kingdom was succeeded by the next one that had something to do historically with its fall, and by that became the dominant empire. Pagan Rome did that, and its territory stretched over those previous beast empires.

 

[Davy]

As believers we have to look at all possible options, to ensure we are on the correct path. The fourth empire will be islam, not Rome. Why because only Islamic nations surround Israel and want them gone. From that its possible to understand who clay is, and who is the KoS in Dan 11. The battle is between the decendants of Isaac and Jacob, Ishmael and Esau. Read their blessings Gen 16.11,12, Gen 27.39,40. He told us the end from the beginning, Is 46.10. Thank you for your response

Zech 12 to 14 is fairly comprehensive in answers, as is Ezek 38,39.

In case you didn't notice that map of the reach of the old pagan Roman empire, it controlled the areas of Persia, Syria, Assyria, Egypt, i.e., Islamic nations that are against Israel.

Because the 5th piece of the Dan.2 beast statue is made up of the feet of IRON mixed with clay, some Bible scholars claim that points to a possible REVIVAL of the old pagan Roman empire for the end of this present world. Problem is today, they can't find evidence of a pagan Roman empire, so they have somehow delegated that role to the Catholic Church, which idea is nowhere written in God's Word. And furthermore, the Dan.2:35 and Dan.2:44 Scripture reveals ALL FIVE PIECES of the beast statue are TOGETHER at the END to make up the FINAL BEAST system that will manifest in the days of Christ's future return, His 2nd coming.

And if you doubt that there are some deceived branches of Christian denominations in the West that are helping to create the coming one-world beast system of ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns of Revelation 13:1, and you instead think it's just the Catholic Church and a pope that is involved, then you are way... behind in your understanding of Bible prophecy and what is going on today in the world with the establishing of that world beast system being prepared for the coming false-Messiah to sit as king upon a throne in Jerusalem.

 

[Wish-it]

In case you didn't notice that map of the reach of the old pagan Roman empire, it controlled the areas of Persia, Syria, Assyria, Egypt, i.e., Islamic nations that are against Israel.

Because the 5th piece of the Dan.2 beast statue is made up of the feet of IRON mixed with clay, some Bible scholars claim that points to a possible REVIVAL of the old pagan Roman empire for the end of this present world. Problem is today, they can't find evidence of a pagan Roman empire, so they have somehow delegated that role to the Catholic Church, which idea is nowhere written in God's Word. And furthermore, the Dan.2:35 and Dan.2:44 Scripture reveals ALL FIVE PIECES of the beast statue are TOGETHER at the END to make up the FINAL BEAST system that will manifest in the days of Christ's future return, His 2nd coming.

And if you doubt that there are some deceived branches of Christian denominations in the West that are helping to create the coming one-world beast system of ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns of Revelation 13:1, and you instead think it's just the Catholic Church and a pope that is involved, then you are way... behind in your understanding of Bible prophecy and what is going on today in the world with the establishing of that world beast system being prepared for the coming false-Messiah to sit as king upon a throne in Jerusalem.

One can... steer off the Biblical and historical path and do all kinds of speculations, but the fact that Rome represented the 4th beast kingdom of that Daniel 2 beast statue description, the "legs of iron", is not speculation. One of the main reasons is because in the Dan.2 beast statue example, each empire kingdom was succeeded by the next one that had something to do historically with its fall, and by that became the dominant empire. Pagan Rome did that, and its territory stretched over those previous beast empires.

View attachment 70118

So do we rely on history or do we rely on Scripture. I can't know what pagan Rome did over 1000 years ago, so can I rely on it.

 

[Wish-it]

And furthermore, the Dan.2:35 and Dan.2:44 Scripture reveals ALL FIVE PIECES of the beast statue are TOGETHER at the END to make up the FINAL BEAST system that will manifest in the days of Christ's future return, His 2nd coming.

This is agree with, the prophecies of Daniel seem to be allocated to a long off yesteryear. But the statue collapses in it entirety with the Lords coming with his kingdom.
Lam 4.2, Isaiah 64.8, Jer 18,19, Ezek 4.1-3 reveal who the clay is.

 

[Davy]

So do we rely on history or do we rely on Scripture.

Both, because how are you going to know when a prophecy that God gave in His Word is fulfilled?

You should never regard study of history as some kind of taboo, because God provides examples of His fulfilled prophecies through historical events. He simply expects us to be aware of it enough to filter out inaccuracies by the devil's children. Not every historian is working for the devil, so you shouldn't generalize against the subject of history. The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus confirmed many Biblical events in his works.

I can't know what pagan Rome did over 1000 years ago, so can I rely on it.

You'd be surprised how much is written you can rely on, from Josephus who lived around 100 A.D.

 

[Wish-it]

Both, because how are you going to know when a prophecy that God gave in His Word is fulfilled?

You should never regard study of history as some kind of taboo, because God provides examples of His fulfilled prophecies through historical events. He simply expects us to be aware of it enough to filter out inaccuracies by the devil's children. Not every historian is working for the devil, so you shouldn't generalize against the subject of history. The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus confirmed many Biblical events in his works.


You'd be surprised how much is written you can rely on, from Josephus who lived around 100 A.D.

Historical facts are useful, im sure, but these are the sons of God those led by the spirit of God.
At this time, if we think the end is nigh, I'd rather spend time in prophecy for today not 2500 years ago.

 

[CTK]

Except, according to the verse, it does:



Iron and clay are successfully mingled. It says so in the verse. The point is that the 'mingling' is not done through the normal cleaving process of procreation. It is done by some other unnatural or supernatural means.

The other means is described here:



It was a form of kenosis. The Ten Kings are not of this world. The mingling is a hybrid program by fallen angels as per Scripture.

If interested, I will happily send you a free author's copy of my commentary on Daniel. It should be availble for purchase by early next week on Amazon, but I can send you a copy and you should receive it by Monday. But you will have to provide me with your mailing address, a PO Box or even your church's address should you desire to keep your information private, in a private message. Alternatively, if you have an interest in purchasing a copy, please let me know and I will provide you with the title and ISBN # when it is available.

But to answer your question, and I certainly do understand how difficult these verses are in Daniel - especially chapter 11 (easily the most difficult by far), there are only 4 distinct metals in the chapter 2 image - each purposefully identified with different parts of a man and also different metals. Here God is telling us they are indeed separate and distinct and there is no bleeding between them. He doubles down again in chapter 7, this time providing us with 4 separate wild animals to represent these same 4 kingdoms (again, only 4). And of course, He strengthens His prophecies by showing us that these 4 animals cannot possibly be combined but a separate just as the 4 kingdoms in chapter 2.

But the only kingdom that has a non-metallic element within in is the 4th kingdom of Rome. This does not mean the 4th kingdom is constructed of both iron and clay because these materials do not mix and certainly, Rome, the iron kingdom, had no interest in sharing its empire with anyone. It was a pure iron kingdom. But God is revealing this clay WITHIN this 4th kingdom to represent His people - the Jews who would be held captive within the Roman empire - and this would be at the time of His first coming.

This is definitely a new interpretation (along with many others) that focuses not on the kingdoms or the kings but on the coming Messiah and His plan of salvation for His people and mankind. The 4 kingdoms are nothing more than the structure where His people will travel through on their way back from exile in Babylon. And they will be fully restored in Jerusalem at the time the Messiah arrives on the first day of the 70th week of years prophecy for Him to fulfill 9:24.

All of this is layed out in a very easy to read new interpretation on Daniel that is consistent from chapter 1 to 12 AND once this is understood, you will see how these interpretations smoothly move forward to help interpret Revelation - in fact, Revelation is essentially like the 13th chapter of Daniel.

 

[IndianaRob]

So do we rely on history or do we rely on Scripture. I can't know what pagan Rome did over 1000 years ago, so can I rely on it.

No we can’t rely on history. History is a lie agreed upon.