Ok and thanks for your reply.Sometimes other views are worth considering.
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Ok and thanks for your reply.Sometimes other views are worth considering.
Please answer this question:
Verse 7:11 is indeed the demise of pagan Rome in 476 AD. And the question is ... since the little horn came out of Rome (specifically, pagan Rome before its demis), then the little horn AND the 10 horns had to "come out" of pagan Rome before 476 AD.
Who is the little horn?
The problem arises because of an incorrect inference that these scriptures have anything to do with Rome, that includes Dan 2 and Dan 7.
Doesn't the little horn come out of the 4th bease - pagan Rome in chapter 7, but only AFTER the 10 horns come out of pagan Rome in chapter 7.The "little horn" refers to Britian. See my post on Sept 17, 2025.
The "little horn" refers to Britian. See my post on Sept 17, 2025.
Doesn't the little horn come out of the 4th bease - pagan Rome in chapter 7, but only AFTER the 10 horns come out of pagan Rome in chapter 7.
And since pagan Rome is destroyed in 476 AD (7:11), this means that BOTH the little horn AND the 10 horns must have already come onto scene BEFORE its demise!
Would you mind looking at the verses again in chapter 7 and see if you agree?
Thanks for sharing all of your thoughts.... It is clear you have been deep into Daniel and the Scriptures. It would not really be possible for me to respond to each and every point you have made.... but perhaps we might take baby steps if you are willing to discuss the little horn, who he is, where did he come from and when did he arrive as well, if we get around to it, all the horrible things he will do against God, His people and His saints.... chapter 7, 8 and 11 are absolutely full of those revelations.....Rome?? No! Many of you are confused on what Daniel 8 talked about.
Daniel 8:7
The Ram "ultimately" signifies Congregation Israel. The two horn symbolized the power of the truthful testimony of Israel, the Old Testament congregation and the New Testament congregation with the Church being "higher and come out last" after the Cross. Just as the two witnesses represented the power of the true testimony in Revelation 11. When the horn of Israel was broken, there was no more more power to stand before Satan (the he goat). Same with the power of evil when it was broken.
- "And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no Power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand."
Daniel 8:8
The great horn allowed him to push with power so that the Ram couldn't stand before him. For example, it 'symbolized' his great power. And likewise, when his horn is broken, it symbolizes his power being taken away.
- "Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven."
This great horn being broken is symbolic of the death blow the Lord gave the Kingdom of Satan by dealing him a deadly wound by the cross. Yet as a defeated foe, Satan still goes about as a roaring lion (a beast) seeking whom he may devour. But His power was without a doubt broken (Hebrews 2:14), though we understand that he still is (2 thessalonians 2:6-7; Revelation 17:8 ) a force in the world. Or as Daniel says:
Daniel 8:22
The great one is broken and scattered (4 being the number of universality). Christ scattered the power of the Kingdom of Satan in binding him so that He could spoil (take by right of conquest) the people of the nations of the world. But he was not eliminated from the earth. For he was bound not for the world, but for the people of the New Testament congregation, chosen by Grace out of the nations. The Gentiles or nations was not being deceived since the Cross, so Christ could build his Church. Selah! When the Church went to the nations who were enlightened, Satan went as an adversary through the unsaved people of the congregation, the he goats! But by the Holy Spirit which Christ sent that the nations be not deceived, we are the nations being sealed of God, His Church being built. This is why Satan's power was broken and scattered towards the four winds, (Daniel 8:8 ). When he was strong, the great horn was broken, that the Lord could establish His Kingdom. This was at the cross.
- "Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power."
Jeremiah 31:10-11
Matthew 12:28-29
- "Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.
- For the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he."
Satan, the strong ruler of this kingdom, was bound from deceiving the nations so Christ could spoil people from his house of spiritual bondage. Once the building of the church is finished, Satan's power will be great again at the appointed end, but only for short time - a short season. Eg.
- "But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
- Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house."
Revelation 7:1-3
In other words, this wickedness of the nations through Satan was bound, restrained, scattered in the four winds (world) from ever being loosed until God had first sealed (Saved) all of Congregation Israel which he intended to seal. Then and only then could this wickedness be loosed for a little season! And THIS is at the point where the little horn pops up where the four (without his power) are. Which brings us to the little horn.
- "And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
- And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
- Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."
Daniel 8:8-10
The "little" horn signifies "Power for a little season", or power of this beast to rule for a short period of time.
- "Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
- And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
- And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them."
Revelation 20:3
The little season Satan is loosed corresponds to this little horn. Or the power Satan has to rule with great power for a little while where he will deceive all of people in the church who have not yet sealed by God (Revelation 9:3-5) where God judges this unfaithful churchs.
- "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."
Little horn = a little time of Power of Satan rule IN GOD'S CONGREGATION. Not Rome. Not Britain. Not Russia. Not Israel. Not the United States. But wherever the Churches are in the whole world (ie. four winds of heaven).
Revelation 17:10
This short period is the little horn (power to rule a little period). This is after all the Election are sealed (saved) and God looses Satan to deceive and rule for a little period just before the second advent. He comes against the Church, the pleasant land, and deceives it so greatly that if the Lord didn't return, there would be no flesh left on earth to be raptured at His coming. That's an overview "basically" of this type symbolism. Selah!
- "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space[/b]."
@rwb
Thanks for sharing all of your thoughts.... It is clear you have been deep into Daniel and the Scriptures. It would not really be possible for me to respond to each and every point you have made.... but perhaps we might take baby steps if you are willing to discuss the little horn, who he is, where did he come from and when did he arrive as well, if we get around to it, all the horrible things he will do against God, His people and His saints.... chapter 7, 8 and 11 are absolutely full of those revelations.....
So, if you are willing, I would ask if you would tell me who the little horn is in chapter 7 who "came out" of the 4th beast kingdom - which, to me, is pagan Rome. And if that is a quick response, you might also tell me who the 10 horns are since they came out just before (well not just before, but certainly earlier than the little horn.
So, if you are willing, I would ask if you would tell me who the little horn is in chapter 7 who "came out" of the 4th beast kingdom - which, to me, is pagan Rome. And if that is a quick response, you might also tell me who the 10 horns are since they came out just before (well not just before, but certainly earlier than the little horn.
So, if you are willing, I would ask if you would tell me who the little horn is in chapter 7 who "came out" of the 4th beast kingdom - which, to me, is pagan Rome. And if that is a quick response, you might also tell me who the 10 horns are since they came out just before (well not just before, but certainly earlier than the little horn.
As I said earlier, you have indeed a strong understanding of the Scriptures- much more than I ever will. It is obvious you have been studying the Scriptures for some time. I am relatively new to this and have started on Daniel about 7 years ago.(Continue from previous post)
Rev 17:16-18
In this context, the woman represents God’s New Testament congregation—the Church—which represents His Kingdom on earth. The “kings of the earth” under her authority are the elect. The ten horns represent the full of deceiving power and influence of false christs and false prophets who hate the Church for who she truly was. Their hatred results in the Church being made spiritually desolate and naked (aka abomination of desolation). The language of “eating her flesh” and “burning her with fire” signifies judgment permitted by God.
- And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
- For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
- And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Notice that this is according to God’s will and purpose like you read in Daniel 8 where God allows the false christs and false prophets as the transgressors with full power to overtake the congregation and then hand it over to Satan for symbolically one hour, enabling him to rule there. However, Satan’s authority extends only over those within the congregation who have not yet been sealed by God, Revelation 9. The chosen elect are able to discern the deception, see the abomination of desolation, and are called to come out of her in order to avoid God’s judgment.
This is why more and more faithful Christians today are proclaiming judgment upon the modern church—because she has been spiritually desolated by false christs and false prophets everywhere. These conditions serve as signs of Christ’s coming, and this deception will last only a short season before He returns, else there will be no Elect left on Earth to be rapture if the season runs too long.
Selah!
The spiritual insight which God conferred upon the Reformation and Reformers enabled them to recognize the apostate papacy as the prevailing antichrist of their era, and to equip them for spiritual battle against it.n
As I said earlier, you have indeed a strong understanding of the Scriptures- much more than I ever will. It is obvious you have been studying the Scriptures for some time. I am relatively new to this and have started on Daniel about 7 years ago.
But, if I may, there are many true scholars, academics, theologians, etc. that have spent their lifetime studying Daniel and have produced what we might commonly call “today’s accepted interpretations.”
Yet, there not only is no consensus among these “very intelligent folks” but they each might have very different interpretations- one might be labeled as a futurist while another a preterist.
Since I could not find much in agreement with these “different interpretations” I decided to learn their views as I worked my way through Daniel. And I came away with a very different set of interpretations that are based on the coming Messiah- not the 4 kingdoms.
So, it is impossible for me to address the mountain of verses or statements you already have provided but, once again, we CAN begin at the beginning and take each important verse one at a time to learn how and why we came up with our own interpretation.
So, allow me to start and we can walk slowly through Daniel before we each throw a mountain of verses at each other.
Big picture-the book of Daniel is all about the first coming of the Messiah and His plan, not only to restore His people and His city back to the way it was prior to the Babylonian destruction, but He will incorporate within this plan His plan of salvation for all of mankind/ His sacrifice on the cross.
Thus, He will reveal His plan as His people are sent into Babylon and their long return and restoration that culminates in His first arrival.
God gives us the borders and boundaries of His plan by limiting His Story within these 4 and only 4 kingdoms. Everything will or must be interpreted WITHIN these 4 kingdoms.
That is the 4 corners of the picture on the outside of this 1000 piece puzzle box.
What do you think?
Big picture-the book of Daniel is all about the first coming of the Messiah and His plan, not only to restore His people and His city back to the way it was prior to the Babylonian destruction, but He will incorporate within this plan His plan of salvation for all of mankind/ His sacrifice on the cross.
n
As I said earlier, you have indeed a strong understanding of the Scriptures- much more than I ever will. It is obvious you have been studying the Scriptures for some time. I am relatively new to this and have started on Daniel about 7 years ago.
But, if I may, there are many true scholars, academics, theologians, etc. that have spent their lifetime studying Daniel and have produced what we might commonly call “today’s accepted interpretations.”
Yet, there not only is no consensus among these “very intelligent folks” but they each might have very different interpretations- one might be labeled as a futurist while another a preterist.
Since I could not find much in agreement with these “different interpretations” I decided to learn their views as I worked my way through Daniel. And I came away with a very different set of interpretations that are based on the coming Messiah- not the 4 kingdoms.
God gives us the borders and boundaries of His plan by limiting His Story within these 4 and only 4 kingdoms. Everything will or must be interpreted WITHIN these 4 kingdoms.
That is the 4 corners of the picture on the outside of this 1000 piece puzzle box.
What do you think?
It is not about how long we have studied the Bible, but when the Lord reveals truth to those who let Scripture interpret Scripture. God—not scholars or academics—is the true Teacher.
“Comparing spiritual things with spiritual.” (1 Cor. 2:13)
“Thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.” (Matt. 11:25)
We must seek God’s interpretation in His Word, not human wisdom or authority.
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God.” (2 Tim. 3:16)
Truth is revealed to the humble, not the credentialed.
Today’s accepted interpretations do not establish truth if Scripture itself proves them wrong. God’s Word stands above every tradition and consensus.
“Let God be true, but every man a liar.” (Romans 3:4)
“To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” (Isaiah 8:20)
Truth is proven by Scripture—not popularity or majority agreement.
I am not concerned with so-called “intelligent” people. We are to be enlightened by God and testify to what His Word actually says. Interpretation belongs to God—not to men.
The scribes and Pharisees spent their entire lives studying Scripture, yet they missed Christ Himself, even when God stood right in front of them (John 5:39–40). Knowledge without discernment leads to blindness.
“The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God… because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14)
Truth is about discerning God’s Word and accepting it as truth—not about credentials. The same applies today to lifelong scholars and theologians. A college degree does not establish spiritual understanding.
“Let God be true, but every man a liar.” (Romans 3:4)
God’s Word stands above all human authority.
Just as God allowed Moses to be raised in Pharaoh’s house—learning Egypt’s wisdom and ways—before giving him true spiritual wisdom, many of us first learn through various interpretations before God leads us to the truth.
“And Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians.” (Acts 7:22)
Yet it was not human wisdom that delivered Israel, but God’s revelation. Likewise, truth is found only when we exercise spiritual discernment and submit to what God’s Word actually says.
“The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God… because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14)
God uses the process—but the interpretation and truth belong to Him alone.
Again, God is not teaching us a lesson about four literal/physical kingdoms or empires here as if we are going to deal with physical kingdoms today.
I realized that Daniel 7 is commonly interpreted as referring to four historical world empires—often identified as Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome. While this historical framework seems plausible. I even taught it before. However, I believe the vision goes beyond merely listing political empires. Scripture often uses earthly kingdoms as types and shadows of deeper spiritual realities. In Daniel 7, God is revealing the structure, progression, and final judgment of Satan’s spiritual kingdom, not just human governments.
The four beasts are not described as neutral political systems, but as violent, devouring, blasphemous, and opposed to God. This language consistently aligns with how Scripture describes Satan’s dominion over the fallen men (Luke 4:5–6; John 12:31; Ephesians 6:12) against God's Elect since the fall of man.
Earthly Empires as Types, Not the Final Meaning. We need to realize that God frequently uses historical nations as types to reveal spiritual truths. For example:
Then we read about how the unfaithful church of Revelation 11 is like Egypt and Sodom. Nor will we deal with physical modern nations within "four corner" empires of Old in Revelation 13.
- Pharaoh is a type of Satan
- Egypt is a type of bondage to sin
- Babylon represents spiritual rebellion and corruption
If the 4th beast kingdom is pagan Rome, and the 10 horns represent a new symbol for the 10 toes in the 4th kingdom of iron in Daniel 2, then who do they represent?