Daniel 7 - 10 horns....

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Spiritual Israelite

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I agree that salvation has always been by grace through faith and that God’s true people are the remnant. Where I see Paul’s “and so all Israel will be saved” (Rom 11:26) is in the Revelation moment when God lifts the partial hardening and meets Israel as He met Saul—by a sovereign, Damascus-road disclosure of the Pierced One (Zech 12:10; Rom 11:25–27). Revelation pictures exactly this: a sealed Jewish remnant, numbered 144,000, set apart to carry “the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus” (Rev 7; 14). Their ministry unfolds across the same three-and-a-half-year window that keeps surfacing. That window is not random; it completes what remained when Messiah was “cut off” in the middle of the final week—at 486½ years. Everything Daniel 9:24 required was accomplished at the first coming, but the Jubilee clock—the fourth and final Great Jubilee cycle—paused at the cross with three and a half years unexpressed through Israel’s corporate witness. When the “times of the Gentiles” are fulfilled (Luke 21:24), God awakens Israel to her own Messiah so that a recognizable company from Israel proclaims Him to the nations with apostolic clarity—just as Paul did after his encounter.

This witness does not create violence; it exposes counterfeit gospels and provokes backlash from the powers that be—especially the little-horn system long claiming to define and preach their very own and very different gospel. Revelation already shows how faithful testimony draws the dragon’s rage (Rev 12:17) and the beast’s war on the saints (Rev 13:7), while Daniel foresaw a period when “the power of the holy people” is pressed to the breaking point (Dan 12:7). So the upheaval comes not because the 144,000 are violent, but because truth spoken in the open collides with deception and corruption of His true Gospel that has been with us for the past 1,500 years. It doesn’t mean every Jew without exception; Revelation’s numbering makes that plain. It does mean a visible turning that joins the ongoing remnant—what I hear in Paul’s “partial… until… and so” language tied to Jacob (Rom 11:25–27). When these verses are read together, Daniel’s near restoration after Babylon set the stage on time; Messiah arrived on time; and the final three-and-a-half years of Israel’s Spirit-empowered witness will conclude on time—bringing the Jubilee story to its completion and the King in His time. This isn’t a second people or a second salvation; it is God finishing the same salvation in the same Messiah—first through the Gentile fullness, then through a Jewish awakening He Himself initiates—until He says “enough,” brings the shattering to its end (Dan 12:7), and completes what He began.
As rwb has been telling you, you have been influenced by some of the dispensationalist teaching about the 70 weeks. Daniel 9:24 says that 70 weeks were determined to accomplish six things. That means a 70 week (490 year) time period was determined when that prophecy would be fulfilled. Which means that from the beginning of the prophecy to the end would cover 70 weeks (490 years). But, you don't have the prophecy as being fulfilled yet around 2,500 years after the 70 weeks began or around 2,000 years after its deadline for being fulfilled. That contradicts what is written in Daniel 9:24.

The Israel of which all are and will be saved is not the nation of Israel. It is spiritual Israel. In Romans 11:26, Paul was referring back to spiritual Israel that he had previously mentioned. For God to go out of His way to ensure the salvation of an entire nation would mean He showed partiality and was a respecter of persons, but scripture says He does not show partiality in relation to salvation and is not a respecter of persons.

How do you interpret this passage...

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

What is your understanding of the identity of the Israel of which not all who are physically descended from the nation of Israel are part?
 
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CTK

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As rwb has been telling you, you have been influenced by some of the dispensationalist teaching about the 70 weeks. Daniel 9:24 says that 70 weeks were determined to accomplish six things. That means a 70 week (490 year) time period was determined when that prophecy would be fulfilled. Which means that from the beginning of the prophecy to the end would cover 70 weeks (490 years). But, you don't have the prophecy as being fulfilled yet around 2,500 years after the 70 weeks began or around 2,000 years after its deadline for being fulfilled. That contradicts what is written in Daniel 9:24.

The Israel of which all are and will be saved is not the nation of Israel. It is spiritual Israel. In Romans 11:26, Paul was referring back to spiritual Israel that he had previously mentioned. For God to go out of His way to ensure the salvation of an entire nation would mean He showed partiality and was a respecter of persons, but scripture says He does not show partiality in relation to salvation and is not a respecter of persons.

How do you interpret this passage...

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

What is your understanding of the identity of the Israel of which not all who are physically descended from the nation of Israel are part?
From your reply I’m hearing two main points: that the 490-year prophecy in Daniel 9 is already fulfilled and closed, and that “all Israel” in Romans 11 refers only to “spiritual Israel” (the believing remnant of Jews and Gentiles), leaving no future, identifiable turning of ethnic Israel to Jesus. Here’s how I see it.

I agree the six goals in Daniel 9:24 truly land on Messiah’s first coming. In God’s design there were two responsible parties in the restoration after Babylon: His people and the Messiah. The 490 years begin with the decree in 457 BC and are divided into 7 weeks, 62 weeks, and 1 week. The first 7 weeks (49 years) gave Israel time to restore the visible covenant life—walls, streets, Temple service, sabbatical cycles, feasts, sacrifices. But one thing they could not restore was the Ark of the Covenant—the sign of God’s Presence—absent in the Second Temple era. That final reality would and could only be restored by the Messiah Himself in the last week.

Messiah then arrives on time at the opening of the 70th week and ministers for three and a half years, being “cut off” in the midst of the week (Dan 9:26–27). That places the cross at 486½ years into the 490. Does this mean Daniel 9 remains unfulfilled? No. Regarding the six objectives of 9:24, Jesus declared on the cross, “It is finished.” Atonement is made, transgression dealt with, righteousness brought in, vision and prophecy sealed, and the true sanctuary opened and anointed. Nothing in Daniel 9:24 itself needs to be pushed two millennia forward, or to be fulfilled.

Alongside that, however, there is a parallel rail: the fourth and final Great Jubilee pattern. The 4th and final Great Jubilee “clock” begins with the same decree (457 BC) and, if uninterrupted, would complete alongside the 490. At the cross, that Jubilee time element pauses with three and a half years still incomplete corporately through Israel. This is not a claim that 9:24 is incomplete; it’s a theological pattern Scripture signals elsewhere with the repeated three-and-a-half-year horizon. From the cross onward, Israel is punished for their rejection and crucifixion of their Messiah. God will then “make desolate” His relationship with them for over 2000 years - “times of the Gentiles” (Luke 21:24). However, His apostles—Jewish believers— will carry the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus throughout the Roman world, and multitudes of Gentiles will believe and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Some Jews believe in every generation, but corporately Israel remains partially hardened. And once again, this is all planned before the beginning of time.

And this is exactly the tension Paul holds. It is clear in Romans 9:6–8: not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel; the true children are the children of the promise. Salvation has always been by grace through faith, never by bloodline. Yet in Romans 11 Paul also insists there is right now a remnant (11:5), and there is a partial hardening on Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in—after which “all Israel will be saved,” as Isaiah promises, “He will turn ungodliness from Jacob” (Rom 11:25–27). But notice that he still speaks of Israel “according to the flesh” as beloved for the patriarchs’ sake, because “the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable” (11:28–29). And God will indeed bring a future, identifiable mercy on many Jews—never apart from Christ and never by favoritism, but by the same gospel that came “to the Jew first and also to the Greek” (Rom 1:16), so that in the end God “may have mercy on all” (Rom 11:32).

How and when does that happen? When the “times of the Gentiles” are fulfilled (Luke 21:24), God lifts the veil in a Damascus-road way (Zech 12:10; Rom 11:25–27). Revelation frames this with a sealed Jewish remnant—144,000—as first fruits (Rev 7; 14) and a measured period of 1,260 days (3.5 years). For three and a half years they proclaim “the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus” with apostolic clarity. And here’s the crucial clarification: the 144,000 are not the source of violence. Their witness is truthful and Spirit-led. The violence erupts as entrenched powers react—especially the little-horn system that has long claimed to define the gospel. Revelation already shows this pattern: when faithful testimony appears in the open, the dragon rages (Rev 12:17) and the beast makes war on the saints (Rev 13:7). Daniel calls it the “shattering of the power of the holy people” for a limited, God-measured span (Dan 12:7). In this sense, yes—this will be the most difficult and violent period in human history, which I believe to represent the tribulation—not because the remnant uses force, but because truth collides with a system determined to keep its throne.

What will the little horn do? Expect a coordinated counteroffensive. Theologically, it will brand the witness as heresy and insist that the 144,000 do not preach the “true” gospel. Institutionally, it will leverage alliances and structures refined over fifteen centuries to suppress or co-opt the message. Publicly, it will stir rulers and populations—much as religious authorities did against the apostles—to marginalize, penalize, and persecute. Revelation’s imagery makes room for slander, coercion, economic pressure, and state power yoked to false worship; Daniel adds the relentless grind: wearing out the saints, changing times and law, speaking great things to the very end. In other words, the little horn will fight to preserve its status, its narrative, its power, and its claims—absolving sins, speaking infallibly, standing as earth’s spiritual arbiter—precisely because the 144,000 expose how far that message has drifted from the apostolic gospel.

And all of this, is not an accident of history but part of God’s long design. From the beginning, He planned that Daniel 9’s six goals would be fulfilled at the cross, while the fourth Great Jubilee would pause there—left with three and a half years to be expressed at the end through Israel’s corporate witness. Israel’s rejection brought the long desolation; the Gentile era followed. None of it surprised God. The same sovereignty that timed Messiah’s first arrival will time Israel’s mercy. When the Gentile fullness is complete, God restarts that Jubilee clock by granting Israel a Damascus-like awakening: many look on the One they pierced, recognize their Messiah, and rise as a sealed remnant to bear witness. The clash intensifies, the shattering runs its course, and then—when the appointed 3½ years are complete—God Himself says “enough,” brings the shattering to its end, and finishes what He began.

So my answer remains both/and. The Israel that truly belongs to God is the Israel of faith—Paul’s point in Romans 9. And Paul also signals a future, corporate turning of many within ethnic Israel after the fullness of the Gentiles—his language about Jacob, Zion, and a hardening with a terminus. That future mercy is not a second way of salvation—only the same salvation reaching Israel in God’s time. In that moment the two rails meet: Daniel 9’s goals stand fulfilled in Christ, and the Jubilee pattern’s remaining three and a half years are also fulfilled through Israel’s Spirit-empowered witness—amid fierce opposition from the little horn—culminating in the King’s return. This will be a time like no other. Look forward to your thoughts!!!!!
 

rwb

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From your reply I’m hearing two main points: that the 490-year prophecy in Daniel 9 is already fulfilled and closed, and that “all Israel” in Romans 11 refers only to “spiritual Israel” (the believing remnant of Jews and Gentiles), leaving no future, identifiable turning of ethnic Israel to Jesus. Here’s how I see it.

What do you mean there is no future for turning ethnic Israel to Jesus? Have they not had to date about 2,000 years of time to hear the gospel of the Kingdom of God and believe in Christ for eternal life, just as every other nation of the world has? You're trying to cut out a time for ethnic Jews based solely on ethnicity! Believing on Christ is the only means of eternal salvation for ALL the world! If man is not eternally saved before the final trumpet begins to sound, there is no more hope for that man to be saved!
At the cross, that Jubilee time element pauses with three and a half years still incomplete corporately through Israel.

Is this an assumption you make to fit a preconceived opinion, or can you prove from Scripture what you allege? It is my belief that the final Jubilee also came with the final seven, but since Christ fulfilled the law of Jubilee by setting His captives free, the final Jubilee since Christ has never ended and will not end until the last Gentile to be saved has been set free from the bondage of sin and death through Him.

I'll have to continue where I've left off later.
 

rwb

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And this is exactly the tension Paul holds. It is clear in Romans 9:6–8: not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel; the true children are the children of the promise. Salvation has always been by grace through faith, never by bloodline. Yet in Romans 11 Paul also insists there is right now a remnant (11:5), and there is a partial hardening on Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in—after which “all Israel will be saved,” as Isaiah promises, “He will turn ungodliness from Jacob” (Rom 11:25–27). But notice that he still speaks of Israel “according to the flesh” as beloved for the patriarchs’ sake, because “the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable” (11:28–29). And God will indeed bring a future, identifiable mercy on many Jews—never apart from Christ and never by favoritism, but by the same gospel that came “to the Jew first and also to the Greek” (Rom 1:16), so that in the end God “may have mercy on all” (Rom 11:32).

Who are the children of promise? Aren't the children of promise, "all Israel that shall be saved"? Why does Paul change his vocabulary? He repeatedly speaks of the nation Israel. But then Paul changes from the ethnic name called Israel, and uses the spiritual name of Jacob, why? "There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

Because not all Israel shall be delivered, only those of Israel that like Jacob are beloved of God. Those of Abraham's biological seeds, all are not of Abraham's supernatural SEED (Christ). The promises to the fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob from whom Christ came. The whole nation comes from the same lump of clay, but only those of God's choosing are children of God. Vessels of mercy, prepared unto glory, for whom God calls, not of the Jews only but also of the Gentiles. Because God will have mercy upon whom He will, and He hardens whomsoever He will. Not all who are called Israel of the flesh, are of the Seed of Christ. God long endured those of biological Israel after the flesh, that He might make His power known, but they are not of the beloved by God. Paul writes they "are fitted for destruction", not for a second chance for salvation after the last Gentile to be saved has been saved. Biological Israel are those who sought salvation through works of the law and not by faith. They rejected Christ who became for them a stumbling stone and rock of offense. They and all who remain in the same hardness of heart are not among the Jews chosen for God's mercy. After saying all this, why would Paul contradict everything he had said? He did not! You cannot read chapter 11 in isolation without remembering all that Paul has written before. Through this understanding it's easy to see how all Israel the Paul says shall be saved is made complete by Jews and Gentiles of faith TOGETHER, not an ethnic people, but a spiritual people where there is no distinction between whosoever is eternally saved.

Romans 9:13-33 (KJV) As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha. What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
 
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Davy

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And what about the seven head, ten horns, but only seven crown beast of Revelation 12:3-4 that is linked to the time when Satan drew a third of the angels ("stars") to earth in rebellion with him?
 

Ronald D Milam

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I need to ask this question from the outset....
Can numbers be representative other than their sum of digits?
Yes they do represent things, not numbers when I answer the OP I will go deeper but for now lets just say the number 7 = Divine Completion and 10 Completeness.

I will show with a map...two maps........how this will only be fulfilled when the E.U. (The 7th head is a man who is president over the E.U, Rome was the 6th head and mortally wounded) conquers Israel and the many (the whole Mediterranean Sea Region) The 10 represent the "complete E.U.".
 

covenantee

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It is clear in Romans 9:6–8: not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel; the true children are the children of the promise.

Who are the children of promise?
Galatians 4
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

The Church, comprised of redeemed Jews and Gentiles.
 
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Ronald D Milam

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In Daniel 7, we are told the 10 horns come out of the 4th beast kingdom and only then does the little horn come out after them.

If the 4th beast kingdom is pagan Rome, and the 10 horns represent a new symbol for the 10 toes in the 4th kingdom of iron in Daniel 2, then who do they represent?

If the 4th beast kingdom is indeed pagan Rome, and pagan Rome was slain (Daniel 7:11), and that time was 476 AD, then both the little horn and the 10 horns must have arrived on the scene before pagan Rome's demise.

Any thoughts?
We have a 6th Head (fourth Beast of Daniel who isn't told about the past Beasts Assyria and Egypt) in Rome who received the mortal wound. The Beast System went away, Jesus told Peter that the gates of hell would not overcome his church so God locked up Apollyon in the bottomless pit. Satan had placed him in charge of killing off Israel and all the Jews/Israelis. He was the entity fighting Michael in Dan. 10, he was over Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome. Now he is locked up, thus he WAS...IS NOT...YET IS. He is an 8th King and was of the 7 (the 7 stretches over 3000 years, it can only be a demon king) and he will be released from the pit and serve under the Anti-Christ in the Spirit real, thus being of all 7, but alas he is not a king on this earth because he is under Satan in the spirit world on this earth, but alas, he is the king of the bottomless pit, this is why the Rev. 17 mention has NO CROWNS on the 7 Heads or 10 Horns.

Now we can get to what these 7 heads and 10 horns mean. The 7 God places over Israel equals Divine Completion, the 10 - Completion or the E.U. coming back together as one nation, just as Rome was, the Maps will prove this beyond all doubts. In Rev. 12 the CROWNS are on the 7 Heads (Satan) in Rev. 13 the CROWNS are on the 10 Horns (The Beast who is over the E.U.). The Mortal Wound mean there is no beast over Israel fir nigh 2000 years, and how could there be? God saw them as Dead Men's Bones, they were not an entity, they were toted off in the Diaspora the world over. Only when this MAN (666/AC) conquers Israel will the Beast be revived.

The E.U. was reformed under the Council of Rome in like 1956 or 57, there were only 8 nations but it represented the number 10. As more nations joined, the number 10 still stood in for the E.U. even as it got up to 27 and higher et al. So, the Little Hon coming up LATER ON..........Means he was born in the E.U. after it was formed !! Dan. 8:9 Mandates this AC has to be born in Greece and Greece is in the E.U.

In Dan. 11:40-43 we get a play by play of the AC conquering Israel and THE MANY. It says he goes through countries (Turkey, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan to get at Israel, then he conquers Egypt and all of North Africa.) We can now see under the European Neighborhood Policy that the E.U. currently has 7 year agreements (I joke not) with Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Tunisia, Morocco, Algeria and Libya. Now lets look at Old Rome on a map and then lets combine the E.U. as it is now and all the nations they have agreements with now, whom the CONQUER in Dan. 11:40-43, and see why Rome is said to be REVIVED by many, Old Rome indeed comes back to life as the E.U. watch how both look on a map.

Roman Empire 117 AD
the-roman-empire-at-its-greatest-extent-in-117-ad-at-the-time-of-trajan-E4C9M2 (1).jpg

The E.U. and the nations she conquers in Dan. 11:40-43

Map-of-the-European-Neighbourhood-Policy (2).jpg


See it yet? Its the EXACT SAME LANDMASS !!

This is why in Rev. 13 it says the Mortal Wound is HEALED !!

The 7th Head is a Beast Man/AC/Little Horn and 666 represents MAN.

The 10 Horns is the Complete Revived E.U. at any number from 1956 on.
 

Mark51

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Doesn't the little horn come out of the 4th bease - pagan Rome in chapter 7, but only AFTER the 10 horns come out of pagan Rome in chapter 7.

And since pagan Rome is destroyed in 476 AD (7:11), this means that BOTH the little horn AND the 10 horns must have already come onto scene BEFORE its demise!

Would you mind looking at the verses again in chapter 7 and see if you agree?
This can be a very complicate and confusing subject to discuss-especially in this manner. Consider what the Bible says carefully and compare it to world history.

The beast that Daniel saw represented the Roman World Power. –Daniel 2:4; 7:8. Compare Revelation 17:10. In the fifth century C.E., the Roman Empire began to fragment. The ten horns, mentioned in Daniel 7: 8, that emerged from the head of that fearsome and ferocious beast represent smaller kingdoms/outposts that grew out of that empire.

Four of the horns, or kingdoms, that emerged from the head of this beast (Rome) are more defining for the identity of the last world power mentioned in Revelation. Three horns are “plucked” out by another horn, “a small one.” History verifies that Britain, as a former outpost of the Roman Empire, grew to prominence. Until the 17th century, Britain was a relatively insignificant power. Three other regions of the old Roman Empire-Spain, the Netherlands, and France-were far more influential and powerful. Britain “plucked” out (defeated) those powers one by one, removing them from their influential and powerful positions in the world. By the mid-18th century, Britain was on its way to become the dominant power on the world scene. But it had not yet become the seventh head of the wild beast.

Though Britain gained dominance, colonies in North America broke away. Even so, these early colonies-later the United States-was allowed to grow mighty, protected by British naval power. Eventually, Britain had built the largest empire in history and the United States had become the greatest industrial power on earth. During World War I, the United States forged a special partnership with Britain. The seventh head of the beast had now emerged as the Anglo-American World Power. This is also mentioned in Revelation 17: 10: “…the other has not yet arrived.”
 

Ronald D Milam

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This can be a very complicate and confusing subject to discuss-especially in this manner. Consider what the Bible says carefully and compare it to world history.

The beast that Daniel saw represented the Roman World Power. –Daniel 2:4; 7:8. Compare Revelation 17:10. In the fifth century C.E., the Roman Empire began to fragment. The ten horns, mentioned in Daniel 7: 8, that emerged from the head of that fearsome and ferocious beast represent smaller kingdoms/outposts that grew out of that empire.
That is not how God uses 10. He uses 10 as a representative for completion over and over. The 10 Plagues, the 10 Virgin Brides, the 10 Commandments so the 10 Horns should be translated like this the COMPLETE POWERS THAT ARISE and the Clay and Toes show these to be many nations coming together as one. The E.U. when it started with 8, and with each and every expansion, stood for the 10 (Complete Rome Revived) and thus the mortal wound of Rome was healed. That wound was us the church turning Rome from a Beast into a center for the Gospel of Jesus to be preached unto all the world as in all roads lead to Rome. When God forsook Israel there could be no Beast over Israel, until 1948.

It has nothing to do with the 10 nations like Goths/Franks etc. Yes, later they become the E.U. but the Beast is ONE MAN, not a nation. He just leads the E.U.
 

CTK

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This can be a very complicate and confusing subject to discuss-especially in this manner. Consider what the Bible says carefully and compare it to world history.
...... The seventh head of the beast had now emerged as the Anglo-American World Power. This is also mentioned in Revelation 17: 10: “…the other has not yet arrived.”
Here is a partial narrative from within my commentary on Daniel chapter 7.

Reflective Narrative:

Hidden in the Feet, Revealed in the Horns: God’s Law and God’s People and the coming little horn

In the grand statue of Daniel 2, four earthly kingdoms rise in succession—each one revealed by God as a separate layer of different metals. But it's the fourth kingdom, made of iron, that demands our closest attention. This kingdom, which we know as pagan Rome, was powerful and unrelenting. And yet, God showed that something radical would take place within it.

At the feet of this statue—where iron is strangely mixed with clay—something extraordinary happens. A Stone, not cut by human hands, strikes the image at its feet (Daniel 2:34). This Stone is Christ, and His crucifixion marks the turning point of history. From that moment, the iron-and-clay mixture in the feet is broken apart. It’s a spiritual event, not a political one—the clay, which had been bound inside the empire of Rome, is now separated. But who is the clay? The answer lies in how God is revealing His plan of restoration and salvation—not simply recounting the rise and fall of earthly kingdoms. Through prophetic symbols, He is telling a much deeper story: one centered on His people, their return to Jerusalem, and the arrival of the Messiah. At the heart of this plan is a group described as “pottery clay”—a symbol of the faithful Jews who accepted Jesus after the cross and were filled with His Spirit. Before the cross, they were held within the iron of the fourth kingdom—pagan Rome—hidden and oppressed. After the cross, the separation of iron and clay in the feet symbolizes not only judgment, but freedom. The pottery clay is released—and with them, the Gospel begins to move outward. But they were not alone.

Alongside the clay were the ten toes that had also been bound within the feet of the fourth kingdom. Before the cross, these toes were united with the clay under Roman oppression. After the cross, they too are set free. They no longer remain hidden or passive. In Daniel 7, they appear again—but this time as ten horns growing out of the fourth beast. Horns represent power, and these ten horns reflect the spiritual authority and influence that would now spread through the lands once dominated by Rome.

This tells us something profound: the ten toes, now symbolized as ten horns, were present both before and after the cross. Prior to Jesus’ sacrifice, they were intertwined with the Jewish people (clay), held within the iron structure of Rome. But after the cross, they rise out from within that fourth kingdom—not as victims, but as forces. Their transformation from toes to horns symbolizes a shift from hidden potential to active power. The Gospel has gone forth. The truth has broken free. And these ten horns, empowered by the same Spirit that filled the pottery clay, now carry influence throughout the Roman world.

Here the mystery comes into focus: these ten toes and ten horns are not random digits or animal features; they represent the Ten Commandments of God—once bound up with a captive people, now lifted up as living standards of His kingdom. God is not only restoring His people—He is reordering history. What was once encased in darkness is now brought into the light. What was once trampled under iron is now standing tall, proclaiming the risen Christ and the hope of eternal life. The story of the ten toes becoming ten horns is part of the larger story of transformation: of clay set free, of truth challenging empire, and of God’s law—His Ten Words—unfolding His plan across every nation touched by the fourth kingdom.

When the Stone strikes the feet, it does more than chip iron and clay—it breaks an invisible bondage. At the cross, the Messiah enters the fourth kingdom at its weakest point, not to topple Rome with legions of angels, but to sever what no earthly army could touch: the spiritual captivity of His people. In that moment, the iron can no longer hold the clay together. Those who receive Him—those who recognize the rejected Stone as their promised Messiah—are no longer merely subjects of Rome or keepers of an external code. They become pottery clay in the truest sense: softened, yielded, reshaped by the hands of the living God.

From that fracture point, something begins to happen that Daniel 2 anticipates and Daniel 7 unfolds. The same people who once carried the Law within the confines of a single nation now step out into a pagan world with a message that is both old and new. Old, because the Ten Commandments have always revealed the character of God. New, because the cross has now revealed the heart of God—His willingness to bear their condemnation so that His Law might be written not on tablets of stone, but on hearts of flesh. The pottery clay does not abandon the Ten Words as it leaves the feet of the statue; it carries them, now joined to the Gospel of a crucified and risen Christ.

This is why, in Daniel 7, both the people and the commandments appear to “come out” of the fourth beast. The saints do not rise in their own strength, and the ten horns do not represent a new law. Rather, what was hidden inside the feet—clay joined to iron, commandments held within a captive people—is now visible on the outside. The Ten Commandments, once contained within Israel under Rome’s heel, emerge as ten horns: visible, active, exerting spiritual authority in the very world that crucified their Author. The same Spirit who softened the pottery clay now empowers them to go into all nations, teaching everything He has commanded.

So the cross is not merely the moment when the Stone touches the statue; it is the turning point where the story of the toes and the clay becomes the story of the horns and the saints. What God once protected inside a small, oppressed people, He now presses outward into the highways of the empire. Synagogues, marketplaces, prisons, and palaces become new “hills” on which His Law and His Gospel are proclaimed. The ten horns, as the Ten Commandments, no longer lie hidden inside the feet of a single nation. They stand exposed on the outside of the fourth beast, confronting kings, governors, philosophers, and commoners alike with the unchanging standard of God’s kingdom.

In this way, the Stone’s first strike does not yet grind the statue to powder—that is the work of the final judgment—but it does begin a quiet revolution. The clay is freed from iron’s grip. The Law is freed from national confinement. The Gospel and the commandments go out together, carried by men and women who have seen the crucified Messiah and cannot remain silent. The transformation from toes to horns, from captive clay to commissioned witnesses, is the story of how God turns a crushed people into a conquering testimony—one that will continue to challenge empires until the Stone fills the whole earth.
 

Luther7

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In Daniel 7, we are told the 10 horns come out of the 4th beast kingdom and only then does the little horn come out after them.

If the 4th beast kingdom is pagan Rome, and the 10 horns represent a new symbol for the 10 toes in the 4th kingdom of iron in Daniel 2, then who do they represent?

If the 4th beast kingdom is indeed pagan Rome, and pagan Rome was slain (Daniel 7:11), and that time was 476 AD, then both the little horn and the 10 horns must have arrived on the scene before pagan Rome's demise.

Any thoughts?
Yes I wanted to point out that Daniel 7 shares the same language as Revelation 17.
 

Luther7

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That is not how God uses 10. He uses 10 as a representative for completion over and over. The 10 Plagues, the 10 Virgin Brides, the 10 Commandments so the 10 Horns should be translated like this the COMPLETE POWERS THAT ARISE and the Clay and Toes show these to be many nations coming together as one. The E.U. when it started with 8, and with each and every expansion, stood for the 10 (Complete Rome Revived) and thus the mortal wound of Rome was healed. That wound was us the church turning Rome from a Beast into a center for the Gospel of Jesus to be preached unto all the world as in all roads lead to Rome. When God forsook Israel there could be no Beast over Israel, until 1948.

It has nothing to do with the 10 nations like Goths/Franks etc. Yes, later they become the E.U. but the Beast is ONE MAN, not a nation. He just leads the E.U.
Ahhhh. You said: " When God forsook Israel there could be no Beast over Israel, until 1948."
Close. They are the whore that " sits" on/ in this beast, Satan's final ( fourth) kingdom on earth. He's the king of Babylon, old and new. They say they are jews, but are not. There are only a handful of people in this world today that have a fairly strong ancestry with the OT Israelites. Those are the ones that remained in Palestine. The remaining 99% are mostly descendants of Eastern Europe.
 

Ronald D Milam

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Ahhhh. You said: " When God forsook Israel there could be no Beast over Israel, until 1948."
That was when they become a nation gain, the Beast only arises in the middle of the 70th week when the Anti-Christ (E.U. President) conquers Israel and THE MANY (the whole Mediterranean Sea Region) which the E.U. currently has 7 years agreements with under the guise of the European Neighborhood Policy ?(look it up guys) that 7 year agreement however starts when Israel joins the E.U. So, Russia, Turkey and Iran come against Israel n the Gog and Magog war, Gog will be Putin, Magog all who join in. NOTICE Russia and the E.U. are now at odds !! The E.U. will seemingly protect Israel, but its God who destroys the 5/6 Armies of Russia, Turkey and Iran, BUT.........the E.U. says they used a "secret weapon" and Israel then will join the E.U. and give up their Nukes, and in the middle of the 70th week, when the Rev. 8 Asteroid takes out the New World, and Russia, Turkey and Iran's armies have been greatly weakened, the AC will lead his E.U. armies into Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region (THE MANY).

Now NOTICE Rome was the only Beast to rule every square inch of the Mediterranean Sea Region

the-roman-empire-at-its-greatest-extent-in-117-ad-at-the-time-of-trajan-E4C9M2 (1).jpg


So, when the Anti-Christ and E.U. conquers Israel and THE MANY the Beast is REVIVED, the Mortal Wound will be HEALED !! They look just alike on a map when we follow the Dan. 11:40-43 conquering's.
Map-of-the-European-Neighbourhood-Policy (2).jpg

ENP = the European Neighborhood Policy. The E.U. currently have seven (7) year agreements that ran from 2007-2013, from 2014-2020 and were reupped in 2021. Between the E.U., Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Morocco and Algeria. The goal is to further neighborhood ties, and to maybe one day offer Statehood to some of these nations. Israel already plays their football/soccer in the Europe. In Dan. 11:40-43 it says he (AC/king of the North) will conquer COUNTRIES to get at the pleasant land or Israel, so Turkey, Syria and Lebanon but only parts of Jordan, because he is forbidden from conquering, Moab, Ammon or or Edom, or the Mountainous portions of Jordan (Petra/Bozrah areas) where Israel flees unto. Then he conquers all of North Africa. So, the Dark Blue (E.U.) conquers Israel and THE MANY (the Brown areas above + Turkey).

They are the whore that " sits" on/ in this beast, Satan's final ( fourth) kingdom on earth. He's the king of Babylon, old and new. They say they are jews, but are not. There are only a handful of people in this world today that have a fairly strong ancestry with the OT Israelites. Those are the ones that remained in Palestine. The remaining 99% are mostly descendants of Eastern Europe.
The Harlot = ALL FALSE RELIGION of All Time. I can interpret this easy. Babylon = the WHOLE WORLD under Satan's Dark Rule over mankind, he CONFUSES.......Babel = Confusion. God stated on Ezekiel 37:11-14 that He would bring the WHOLE HOUSE of Israel back into the land and God CANNOT LIE sir. There were NEVER any lost tribes, try reading about the Assyrian siege on Jerusalem, its a noted fact that they had to add to the city ways, a place for the Northern Kingdom Refugees, there has always been all 12 tribes living in Judea from 2700 BC to Jesus' time BUT ALAS, they lived in Judea so they became known as Jews (Judeans) just like Irish people moving to New York 100 years ago are called New Yorkers or Americans. They were sent around the world in the Diaspora as Jews and returned as Jews but they are ALL 12 Tribes.
 

covenantee

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This can be a very complicate and confusing subject to discuss-especially in this manner. Consider what the Bible says carefully and compare it to world history.

The beast that Daniel saw represented the Roman World Power. –Daniel 2:4; 7:8. Compare Revelation 17:10. In the fifth century C.E., the Roman Empire began to fragment. The ten horns, mentioned in Daniel 7: 8, that emerged from the head of that fearsome and ferocious beast represent smaller kingdoms/outposts that grew out of that empire.

Four of the horns, or kingdoms, that emerged from the head of this beast (Rome) are more defining for the identity of the last world power mentioned in Revelation. Three horns are “plucked” out by another horn, “a small one.” History verifies that Britain, as a former outpost of the Roman Empire, grew to prominence. Until the 17th century, Britain was a relatively insignificant power. Three other regions of the old Roman Empire-Spain, the Netherlands, and France-were far more influential and powerful. Britain “plucked” out (defeated) those powers one by one, removing them from their influential and powerful positions in the world. By the mid-18th century, Britain was on its way to become the dominant power on the world scene. But it had not yet become the seventh head of the wild beast.

Though Britain gained dominance, colonies in North America broke away. Even so, these early colonies-later the United States-was allowed to grow mighty, protected by British naval power. Eventually, Britain had built the largest empire in history and the United States had become the greatest industrial power on earth. During World War I, the United States forged a special partnership with Britain. The seventh head of the beast had now emerged as the Anglo-American World Power. This is also mentioned in Revelation 17: 10: “…the other has not yet arrived.”
Readily identified by Scripture and history.

Daniel 7

Ten historical Roman horns (kingdoms) which arose out of the fourth beast/kingdom of the Roman empire, and their first or early kings:

Heruli - Anthyrius I
Suevi - Hermeric
Burgundians - Gjúki
Huns - Attila
Ostrogoths - Theodoric
Visigoths - Alaric I
Vandals - Genseric
Lombards - Lethuc
Franks - Ascaric
Anglo-Saxons - Alfred the Great

Roman little horn (kingdom) and king: The Roman papacy, governed by pope Gelasius I when the first of the three kings in Daniel 7:8,20,24, Odoacer of the Heruli, was overthrown in 493 AD.

The three kings overthrown ("subdued"): Odoacer of the Heruli in 493 AD, Gelimer of the Vandals in 534 AD, Teia of the Ostrogoths in 553 AD.
 

CTK

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Readily identified by Scripture and history.

Daniel 7

Ten historical Roman horns (kingdoms) which arose out of the fourth beast/kingdom of the Roman empire, and their first or early kings:

Heruli - Anthyrius I
Suevi - Hermeric
Burgundians - Gjúki
Huns - Attila
Ostrogoths - Theodoric
Visigoths - Alaric I
Vandals - Genseric
Lombards - Lethuc
Franks - Ascaric
Anglo-Saxons - Alfred the Great

Roman little horn (kingdom) and king: The Roman papacy, governed by pope Gelasius I when the first of the three kings in Daniel 7:8,20,24, Odoacer of the Heruli, was overthrown in 493 AD.

The three kings overthrown ("subdued"): Odoacer of the Heruli in 493 AD, Gelimer of the Vandals in 534 AD, Teia of the Ostrogoths in 553 AD.
I don't want to be argumentative and I deeply respect most of the interpretations offered by the SDA, but they have a few things wrong.... but they certainly have been a blessing in understanding so much of Daniel - more than any other denomination by far, But I would respectfully ask you to consider the 10 toes / horns and later in chapter 7, the 10 kings that symbolically represent the 10 commandments of God. They were pressent in the iron feet of pagan Rome before the cross within the Jewish nation (clay). The Stone in 2:34, Christ, did not come to destroy but to divide and He "striking" separated the clay from the iron and those that accepted Him as their Messiah became identified as "pottery clay," molded by the Potter Himself. They would go out into the empire preaching the Good News and with them the 10 commandments. That is why they "come out" of the 4th kingdom in chapter 7. Also, please consider that the 3 horns that were plucked up by the little horn (papacy) represent the first 3 commandments of God - they claim divinity, they bring in idols and they speak of Jesus in vain.... Daniel is all about the Messiah not about the kingdom's of the earth. Finally, God has identified and limited the 4 and only 4 kingdoms that will come upon the earth - IN HIS PLAN OF RESTORATION AND SALVATION WHICH IS THE BOOK OF DANIEL. Daniel is not a history book but God will call out 4 and only 4 kingdoms that will come out of the sea - until His return. And if you look forward to the book of Revelation, you will ONLY find these same 4 kingdoms and no others mentioned and identified.
 
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covenantee

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I don't want to be argumentative and I deeply respect most of the interpretations offered by the SDA, but they have a few things wrong.... but they certainly have been a blessing in understanding so much of Daniel - more than any other denomination by far, But I would respectfully ask you to consider the 10 toes / horns and later in chapter 7, the 10 kings that symbolically represent the 10 commandments of God. They were pressent in the iron feet of pagan Rome before the cross within the Jewish nation (clay). The Stone in 2:34, Christ, did not come to destroy but to divide and He "striking" separated the clay from the iron and those that accepted Him as their Messiah became identified as "pottery clay," molded by the Potter Himself. They would go out into the empire preaching the Good News and with them the 10 commandments. That is why they "come out" of the 4th kingdom in chapter 7. Also, please consider that the 3 horns that were plucked up by the little horn (papacy) represent the first 3 commandments of God - they claim divinity, they bring in idols and they speak of Jesus in vain.... Daniel is all about the Messiah not about the kingdom's of the earth. Finally, God has identified and limited the 4 and only 4 kingdoms that will come upon the earth - IN HIS PLAN OF RESTORATION AND SALVATION WHICH IS THE BOOK OF DANIEL. Daniel is not a history book but God will call out 4 and only 4 kingdoms that will come out of the sea - until His return. And if you look forward to the book of Revelation, you will ONLY find these same 4 kingdoms and no others mentioned and identified.
The Reformation historians pre-dated SDA by more than a century.

I'm confident that they got it right.